Thoughts on Dolphins formation? (1 Viewer)

[Bri]

Any thoughts on the formation they had so much success with?

Here's an article to catch you up if you missed it

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09...ow-they-did-it/

 

[footballnerd]

Any thoughts on the formation they had so much success with?

Here's an article to catch you up if you missed it

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09...ow-they-did-it/

It reminds me a lot of the offense ATL had when Vick was on the squad. Defenses were guessing whether he would run it himself, hand it off to Dunn or throw it deep. Also the fake handoffs for keeper runs were very deceiving, you could literally see the entire game pause to guess if Dunn or Vick got the ball. This could be something that can consistently be effective if you look at it like ATL's old offense.

 

[MOAT]

You can't play the lowly Patriots every week...

I bet they pull those plays out again at some point. I think they won't be as wildly successful but who knows.

 

[Bri]

Any thoughts on the formation they had so much success with?

Here's an article to catch you up if you missed it

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09...ow-they-did-it/

It reminds me a lot of the offense ATL had when Vick was on the squad. Defenses were guessing whether he would run it himself, hand it off to Dunn or throw it deep. Also the fake handoffs for keeper runs were very deceiving. This could be something that can consistently be effective if you look at it like ATL's old offense.

well having David Lee there to coach it, sure helps. IIRC He was with Bill for a time at the Jets and Cowboys, but not the entire time.I was blown away by Smiley's blocks. He was "putting on a clinic" against the Pats excellent DL.

There's gotta be a reason teams don't do it. Like many college plays, often times the speed and gameprep of NFL Ds has them ready for it and they just stuff those plays like they're nothing special.

I don't know who the Fins next opponent is. Can that team stop it easily if they know it's coming?

I totally expected BB to go in at halftime and set something up where that play was squashed. I've just come to expect it from him. Apparently he couldn't or didn't and with so much respect for his coaching....I wonder if teams will be able tp squash it as easily as they have other college formations in the past.

 

[Statcruncher]

Unknown gimmicks sometimes work until they're on tape. Then the effectiveness is greatly diminished. Upcoming Miami opponents are dissecting the tape and will not be caught off guard.

We made the playoffs one year in high school and our coach scouted the opposing team whom we'd never faced before. Deep in the archives he found the previous year they ran a "polecat" offensive set for the final play of a close game. Our coaches prepped us on how to defend the polecat just in case.

We jumped to an early lead and as we were about to step on their throats they went polecat. They ran two plays from that set, resulting in a 4 yard loss and then an interception. They quickly went back to their base offense and we went on to roll them. If we hadn't been drilled on that formation their first play would have been an easy touchdown which would have completely changed the game. That's when I realized the importance of coaching and prepping your team.

 

[HookAndSliceSince1991]

I think now that it's out - it will no longer be effective. If I'm a defensive coordinator, Chad Pennington in the flat is now open game. I don't see this lasting very long.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Any thoughts on the formation they had so much success with?

Here's an article to catch you up if you missed it

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09...ow-they-did-it/

It reminds me a lot of the offense ATL had when Vick was on the squad. Defenses were guessing whether he would run it himself, hand it off to Dunn or throw it deep. Also the fake handoffs for keeper runs were very deceiving. This could be something that can consistently be effective if you look at it like ATL's old offense.

well having David Lee there to coach it, sure helps. IIRC He was with Bill for a time at the Jets and Cowboys, but not the entire time.I was blown away by Smiley's blocks. He was "putting on a clinic" against the Pats excellent DL.

There's gotta be a reason teams don't do it. Like many college plays, often times the speed and gameprep of NFL Ds has them ready for it and they just stuff those plays like they're nothing special.

I don't know who the Fins next opponent is. Can that team stop it easily if they know it's coming?

I totally expected BB to go in at halftime and set something up where that play was squashed. I've just come to expect it from him. Apparently he couldn't or didn't and with so much respect for his coaching....I wonder if teams will be able tp squash it as easily as they have other college formations in the past.

The single wing was successul for years, and it would still be successful today... if we measured success the same way. Unfortunatley for the single wing, scoring more than 14 points a game is pretty important. It's a low risk, moderately productive set. You can consistently get a few yards out of it, but rarely can get big plays due to the lack of a passing threat. When Ronnie Brown is the guy taking the direct snap (and not Mike Vick or Tim Tebow), it's not going to be very effective because there's almost zero chance of a pass. (I know Brown through a TD pass in the game, but that's besides the point; and IIRC, he did it out of a regular formation). I was shocked that the Patriots kept putting guys out on Pennington, and that they failed to realize that every or nearly every rush out of the single wing went in the opposite direction of Pennington.It's going to be predictable when you always put Pennington on the right and always run left. The other option is not to have Pennington in the game at all, but that eliminates the element of surprise. (I.e., when the 'Fins huddle, you'd already know they're running from the single wing).

 

[Jerry Lawler]

IIRC, Atlanta was dominant with that offense for 2-3 games before defenses prepared for it, causing Atlanta's offense to be nothing special the rest of the year. Even though I think they still lead the league in rushing, a lot of that was due to the fact that they had a QB who was a great running QB, without much of a passing game to use.

 

[gregjcross]

Any thoughts on the formation they had so much success with?

Here's an article to catch you up if you missed it

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09...ow-they-did-it/

It reminds me a lot of the offense ATL had when Vick was on the squad. Defenses were guessing whether he would run it himself, hand it off to Dunn or throw it deep. Also the fake handoffs for keeper runs were very deceiving. This could be something that can consistently be effective if you look at it like ATL's old offense.

well having David Lee there to coach it, sure helps. IIRC He was with Bill for a time at the Jets and Cowboys, but not the entire time.I was blown away by Smiley's blocks. He was "putting on a clinic" against the Pats excellent DL.

There's gotta be a reason teams don't do it. Like many college plays, often times the speed and gameprep of NFL Ds has them ready for it and they just stuff those plays like they're nothing special.

I don't know who the Fins next opponent is. Can that team stop it easily if they know it's coming?

I totally expected BB to go in at halftime and set something up where that play was squashed. I've just come to expect it from him. Apparently he couldn't or didn't and with so much respect for his coaching....I wonder if teams will be able tp squash it as easily as they have other college formations in the past.

The single wing was successul for years, and it would still be successful today... if we measured success the same way. Unfortunatley for the single wing, scoring more than 14 points a game is pretty important. It's a low risk, moderately productive set. You can consistently get a few yards out of it, but rarely can get big plays due to the lack of a passing threat. When Ronnie Brown is the guy taking the direct snap (and not Mike Vick or Tim Tebow), it's not going to be very effective because there's almost zero chance of a pass. (I know Brown through a TD pass in the game, but that's besides the point; and IIRC, he did it out of a regular formation). I was shocked that the Patriots kept putting guys out on Pennington, and that they failed to realize that every or nearly every rush out of the single wing went in the opposite direction of Pennington.It's going to be predictable when you always put Pennington on the right and always run left. The other option is not to have Pennington in the game at all, but that eliminates the element of surprise. (I.e., when the 'Fins huddle, you'd already know they're running from the single wing).

I would venture to guess that the Miami coaching staff is well aware that it wont work that wildly well ever again. The only thing it accomplished was giving the OL confidence. Yes, maybe they run a play or 3 off it in future games, but its not giong to be any type of staple.

And if Pennington were that much of a liability, they could throw out Ernest Wilford, Ginn, or someone else out there who is more athletic.

I bet they start the next game entirely different, you might even see Chadd Henne come out in a 5 WR set and throw a bomb on play 1.

It wont be linearly predictable.

 

[FFdork]

Yep, my guess is that now that teams have film it won't work as well (at least not the way they ran it last week).

I'm sure it's a wrinkle that they'll break out a few more times, but if anyone has dreams of Tim Tebow type TD numbers for Ronnie Brown, it's time to come back to earth.

 

[Bri]

single wing explanation

http://www.coachwyatt.com/singlewing.html

 

[kremenull]

With the success that the Dolphins showed, look for this formation to show up all over the league immediately, as it already was slowly going to be integrated....With the shift to RBBC, and many of these teams boasting a fairly dynamic duo, it makes sense to utilize this set in order to get two of the best playmakers (tailbacks) on the field at the same time where both guys are a threat to run the ball on a given play.......I looked at those highlights of the 'Fins running this pkg and they were very impressive in their execution. Their blocking schemes were very intricate on these plays with guards pulling and tackles zoning and trap-blocking.......Some people believe that this will be easy to stop once a defense has seen it, but I think the opposite. When executed and used in moderation (5-7 times per game), I believe this pkg can be very effective especially if you incorporate some creative blocking schemes upfront and catch the defense in a non-ideal personnel group to defend this, such as a nickel pkg.....and having a dynamic trigger-back wouldn't hurt as well......I'm just kinda jealous that the 'Fins had such great success before my Raiders when Oakland has the guy (D-Mac) primarily responsible for popularizing this trend in this era......This is another reason to downgrade Kiffin, where the hell is the Wildhog formation??????

I can see teams like N.O., S.D., Jax, G.B., DAL, PHI, CAR, S.F., K.C., T.B., DEN, ATL, and others implementing this pkg with some degree of success.......

 

[Challenge Everything]

I only saw replays as the game was not shown here... but was Pennington on the field when the play was happening? Or was Brown the only guy in the back with an extra blocker on the line?

 

[scerpico22]

the one thing that everyone has not pointed out is after i watched this game the second time around is that there is one thing imo that made this play work, besides the obvious, deception.

everytime ronnie ran for positive yards the line was over loaded to the right side, they moved jake long from left tackle to right tackle next to Vernon carrey, added a TE in motion to stop between guard and tackle on the right side, then once the ball was hiked they pulled the opposite guard creating a massive overload on the right side.

new England was not ready nor figured out what was going on due to all the pre-snap movement, therefor struggled with the play.

i think miami knows this play will be limited in success at best but by saying they have more bullets in the chamber with this play just to makes teams think and game plan for it.

brilliant offense scheme and coordination going forward...

love it...

 

[Bri]

I only saw replays as the game was not shown here... but was Pennington on the field when the play was happening? Or was Brown the only guy in the back with an extra blocker on the line?

wide like a WR

 

[Bri]

the one thing that everyone has not pointed out is after i watched this game the second time around is that there is one thing imo that made this play work, besides the obvious, deception.everytime ronnie ran for positive yards the line was over loaded to the right side, they moved jake long from left tackle to right tackle next to Vernon carrey, added a TE in motion to stop between guard and tackle on the right side, then once the ball was hiked they pulled the opposite guard creating a massive overload on the right side.new England was not ready nor figured out what was going on due to all the pre-snap movement, therefor struggled with the play.i think miami knows this play will be limited in success at best but by saying they have more bullets in the chamber with this play just to makes teams think and game plan for it.brilliant offense scheme and coordination going forward...love it...

good pointI think he mentioned that in the article I linked to as well

 

[scerpico22]

the one thing that everyone has not pointed out is after i watched this game the second time around is that there is one thing imo that made this play work, besides the obvious, deception.everytime ronnie ran for positive yards the line was over loaded to the right side, they moved jake long from left tackle to right tackle next to Vernon carrey, added a TE in motion to stop between guard and tackle on the right side, then once the ball was hiked they pulled the opposite guard creating a massive overload on the right side.new England was not ready nor figured out what was going on due to all the pre-snap movement, therefor struggled with the play.i think miami knows this play will be limited in success at best but by saying they have more bullets in the chamber with this play just to makes teams think and game plan for it.brilliant offense scheme and coordination going forward...love it...

good pointI think he mentioned that in the article I linked to as well

missed that if you did, but i really think this is going to be a decoy more than anything going forward...yeah it might work for yards here and there but not the success that it had against NE

 

[Bri]

but i really think this is going to be a decoy more than anything going forward...yeah it might work for yards here and there but not the success that it had against NE

If you score a touchdown 4 of the 6 times you run it, you're not going to go away from it too quickly. GK mentioned something like this on his BTR show tonight. That success rate is so unbelievable it makes you rethink if it's going to be just a gimmick play or not, doesn't it?

 

[scerpico22]

but i really think this is going to be a decoy more than anything going forward...yeah it might work for yards here and there but not the success that it had against NE

If you score a touchdown 4 of the 6 times you run it, you're not going to go away from it too quickly. GK mentioned something like this on his BTR show tonight. That success rate is so unbelievable it makes you rethink if it's going to be just a gimmick play or not, doesn't it?

i hear what your saying and look there are a lot of options from that formation especially that ronnie can really throw throw the ball, he did for two td's last year and he did it again, so yes they have options....but! and let me start this by saying im a die hard phin fan...i think this is something that will be in the head of def cord heads for a few weeks if not more...but i love the fact that they have people thinking against them now not just saying, they suck...and with that whether it translates into yards or wins, i think just the mere fact that teams have to plan for it is a step up. its creative, innovative and it has been the talk of the league for now...i love it

 

[Tanner9919]

Any thoughts on the formation they had so much success with?

Here's an article to catch you up if you missed it

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09...ow-they-did-it/

what you witnessed was Parcells playing a chess match against Bellichick...I'm sure Parcells and Sparano drew up many plays like that during the off-season..the Parcells-Bellichick rivalry is turning into one of the best feuds in pro sports..I doubt this formation will be a week-2-week thing..

now the Dolphins will go back to being one of the NFL's worst teams..

 

[switz]

It's going to be predictable when you always put Pennington on the right and always run left. The other option is not to have Pennington in the game at all, but that eliminates the element of surprise. (I.e., when the 'Fins huddle, you'd already know they're running from the single wing).

The benefit to that game and that formation is now all opponents have to prepare for that formation - it's on more thing they need to think about. And it opens up some mismatches. For instance, they line up in the 'FinCat', with Pennington out wide. The defense aligns for it, but then Pennington motions behind center, take the snap, and while the defense has oriented for a run, Pennington lofts a deep pass for a score. Maybe it won't happen every time, but it allows for that type of misdirection.ETA - I see I'm not the only one who realized this.... good job guys. Nice to be in a forum where some people actually understand the game

 

[Chase Stuart]

It's going to be predictable when you always put Pennington on the right and always run left. The other option is not to have Pennington in the game at all, but that eliminates the element of surprise. (I.e., when the 'Fins huddle, you'd already know they're running from the single wing).

The benefit to that game and that formation is now all opponents have to prepare for that formation - it's on more thing they need to think about. And it opens up some mismatches. For instance, they line up in the 'FinCat', with Pennington out wide. The defense aligns for it, but then Pennington motions behind center, take the snap, and while the defense has oriented for a run, Pennington lofts a deep pass for a score. Maybe it won't happen every time, but it allows for that type of misdirection.ETA - I see I'm not the only one who realized this.... good job guys. Nice to be in a forum where some people actually understand the game

 

[switz]

It's going to be predictable when you always put Pennington on the right and always run left. The other option is not to have Pennington in the game at all, but that eliminates the element of surprise. (I.e., when the 'Fins huddle, you'd already know they're running from the single wing).

The benefit to that game and that formation is now all opponents have to prepare for that formation - it's on more thing they need to think about. And it opens up some mismatches. For instance, they line up in the 'FinCat', with Pennington out wide. The defense aligns for it, but then Pennington motions behind center, take the snap, and while the defense has oriented for a run, Pennington lofts a deep pass for a score. Maybe it won't happen every time, but it allows for that type of misdirection.ETA - I see I'm not the only one who realized this.... good job guys. Nice to be in a forum where some people actually understand the game

Notice I said 'lofts' That's why I tihnk they will try that out of this formation... Pennington doesn't have the strongest arm, but he can get the ball down the field given some space for the WR to track the ball down.

 

[lapdawg]

Agree this an excellent discussion.

Here one thing I would do to help defend this formation. Every time the QB is split out wide, I'd make sure a safety or CB nails him. Nothing cheap or illegal, but I would hit him hard every play. It would certainly make the coach reconsider putting him on the field as a decoy.

 

[Master of Past and Present]

Agree this an excellent discussion.Here one thing I would do to help defend this formation. Every time the QB is split out wide, I'd make sure a safety or CB nails him. Nothing cheap or illegal, but I would hit him hard every play. It would certainly make the coach reconsider putting him on the field as a decoy.

After an interception you can't hit the QB if he isn't trying to make a play. Is there any rule in place that states you can or can not hit him if he just stands out as a WR and makes no attempt to block? If there isn't one now, I wouldn't be surprised if one was added quickly so a team could put out a QB at WR and have no chance of injury as long as the QB makes no effort to make a block or play. I don't see this as a way to stop this type of formation just because you can't hit a QB after a thrown pass, he hands off, throws a pick as long as the QB isn't trying to make a play. If the QB just stands there, the NFL won't let you hit the QB just to send a message to stop a formation.

 

[Bri]

Agree this an excellent discussion.Here one thing I would do to help defend this formation. Every time the QB is split out wide, I'd make sure a safety or CB nails him. Nothing cheap or illegal, but I would hit him hard every play. It would certainly make the coach reconsider putting him on the field as a decoy.

The Pats reaction was more like "uh oh they're doing it again" and anything involving Pennington was the least of their concern. 11 guys allowed 4 TDs on 6 plays. They sure can't afford to send one defender on some sort of hunting mission with that success.Plus, is Pennington so good that teams would hunt for him?

 

[goldfinger]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=E...mp;confirm=true

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-3-146...-stop-Fins.html

From these articles, it looks like most teams have the formation in thier playbook, but the key is that the player taking the snap has to be a threat to throw.

 

[ctt8410]

The next incarnation is a lateral out to the QB and having him toss it deep. It looks a bit like a flag football play, but it's worked well for Malzahn (the creator of the wildcat) in college.

 

[Aaronstory]

Great read on this here: (there's a great You Tube video in the original post as well)

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/09/...otes-92308.html

Wildcat, meet the Patriots. There's plenty of buzz going around about the Patriots losing big to the Dolphins. And there's lots of buzz that the Dolphins used a funky formation to do it. This buzz isn't all positive, as for some reason NFL guys (announcers, everybody) can only act derisively when they see something that strikes them as a "college formation" or part a "college offense." (Nevermind that Bill Walsh's West Coast Offense began as a "college offense" at Stanford.) I generally take the view that the NFL guys actually are right when they say their game is more complex and intricate than the college game, largely because they have near infinite resources and time to devote to those things. (And most every NFL game is a close one.) But it's like these NFL guys failed to see a single college game over the past three years.

If they had, they might have realized that what the Dolphins did against the Patriots was employ the "Wildcat" formation, made famous by Arkansas which used it with Darren McFadden running the show. The basis for the set is a single quarterback -- actually the running back -- and another running back who goes in motion to either run or fake a jet sweep. The other reason it is unforgiveable that these commentators can't figure this out is that this is not a bolt out of the blue: The quarterbacks coach for the Dolphins is David Lee, who was the offensive coordinator for the Arkansas Razorbacks last season under Houston Nutt.

Now, the common wisdom among these NFL guys now is that this was a one-week fad, if the Dolphins even try to use it next week it will be snuffed out because coaches around the league have analyzed this, diagnosed it, and will annihilate it if Miami ever tries to use it again. Maybe so. But I wouldn't be on it. Of course this is not an every down thing (unless Ronnie Brown starts throwing twenty passes a game), but the reason this worked -- unlike some other NFL experiments with the zone-read or other gun styles -- is that this is an actual series rather than just a play or two. That's obviously the case because, as Lee explains in the video, it hinges on being a series rather than just a "good play." And the fact that it is a series makes it a self-contained offense in itself, as the series anticipates a defense's adjustments. Maybe it won't work, but I'd be surprised if it is as useless as these talking heads seem to think it will be. Just ask the Pats.

 

[Bri]

Great read on this here: (there's a great You Tube video in the original post as well)

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/09/...otes-92308.html

Wildcat, meet the Patriots. There's plenty of buzz going around about the Patriots losing big to the Dolphins. And there's lots of buzz that the Dolphins used a funky formation to do it. This buzz isn't all positive, as for some reason NFL guys (announcers, everybody) can only act derisively when they see something that strikes them as a "college formation" or part a "college offense." (Nevermind that Bill Walsh's West Coast Offense began as a "college offense" at Stanford.) I generally take the view that the NFL guys actually are right when they say their game is more complex and intricate than the college game, largely because they have near infinite resources and time to devote to those things. (And most every NFL game is a close one.) But it's like these NFL guys failed to see a single college game over the past three years.

If they had, they might have realized that what the Dolphins did against the Patriots was employ the "Wildcat" formation, made famous by Arkansas which used it with Darren McFadden running the show. The basis for the set is a single quarterback -- actually the running back -- and another running back who goes in motion to either run or fake a jet sweep. The other reason it is unforgiveable that these commentators can't figure this out is that this is not a bolt out of the blue: The quarterbacks coach for the Dolphins is David Lee, who was the offensive coordinator for the Arkansas Razorbacks last season under Houston Nutt.

Now, the common wisdom among these NFL guys now is that this was a one-week fad, if the Dolphins even try to use it next week it will be snuffed out because coaches around the league have analyzed this, diagnosed it, and will annihilate it if Miami ever tries to use it again. Maybe so. But I wouldn't be on it. Of course this is not an every down thing (unless Ronnie Brown starts throwing twenty passes a game), but the reason this worked -- unlike some other NFL experiments with the zone-read or other gun styles -- is that this is an actual series rather than just a play or two. That's obviously the case because, as Lee explains in the video, it hinges on being a series rather than just a "good play." And the fact that it is a series makes it a self-contained offense in itself, as the series anticipates a defense's adjustments. Maybe it won't work, but I'd be surprised if it is as useless as these talking heads seem to think it will be. Just ask the Pats.

It was 6 plays resulting in 4 TDs. While I guess 4 single initial plays that resulted in a TD could also be considerred a series....I don't think that's a selling point here.It's always good to hear other opinions though, thanks for posting it.

 

[JaxBill]

Jonathan from Orange Park, FL

Can the Jaguars run that single wing that Miami ran against the Patriots?

Vic: That was not the single wing. It was a just a simple version of the direct-snap offense Arkansas created it a couple of years ago when its quarterback couldn’t throw a spiral. Coaches call it a “read zone” offense. Please don’t confuse it with the single wing. The single wing was ballet. It may be the most sophisticated, precision offense in football history. It involved ball-handling that was artistic. The single wing was football ballet. Compared to the single wing, what Miami did was the bunny hop. Why did it work? Because it created indecision. It’s not likely to work again because it’s very easy to disarm, if you know it’s coming and you can prepare for it.

http://www.jaguars.com/news/article.aspx?id=7274

 

[Bri]

Jonathan from Orange Park, FL

Can the Jaguars run that single wing that Miami ran against the Patriots?

Vic: That was not the single wing. It was a just a simple version of the direct-snap offense Arkansas created it a couple of years ago when its quarterback couldn’t throw a spiral. Coaches call it a “read zone” offense. Please don’t confuse it with the single wing. The single wing was ballet. It may be the most sophisticated, precision offense in football history. It involved ball-handling that was artistic. The single wing was football ballet. Compared to the single wing, what Miami did was the bunny hop. Why did it work? Because it created indecision. It’s not likely to work again because it’s very easy to disarm, if you know it’s coming and you can prepare for it.

http://www.jaguars.com/news/article.aspx?id=7274

The term single wing isn't so unlike the west coast offense nowadays, in that we should bring up that it's a descendant of it.I posted this link above http://www.coachwyatt.com/singlewing.html

We don't truly see the original single wing but some sort of descendents of it. Bill Walsh's 49ers offense isn't very much like Holmgren's or Shanny's when you get down to the nitty gritty. I think everyone(or many teams) nowadays has a descendant of the WCO.

What Vic said would probably apply to today's WCO (Walsh-ballet, Holmgren-bunny hop) too

 

[Coach3K]

Well at the very least, the Dolphins have gained a small advantage through the rest of the season.

There are only so many hours in a day/week for preparation for an upcoming game.

By bringing this formation out and being absolutely deadly-effective with it, every team they play the rest of the year has to dedicate SOME preparation for it, reducing the time available for other defensive preparation. The amount of prep time allocated will, of course, vary by team, but even if they don't run it again at all the rest of the season, they've impacted the preparation of the other teams they'll face to some degree.

Now...that advantage may not actually translate into any more wins than they would have gotten otherwise, but in a salary-cap driven league where parity has been discussed considerably over the last several years, wins often come as a result of lots of small things adding up. Like "Tony D'Amato" said...inches adding up is the ####### difference between winning and losing!

 

[Thorpe]

The Bills and Raiders both ran a play out of this formation. The Raiders had a 14 yard run (longest run of the game). and I think the Bills ran for 6 yards.

 

[go jints]

I think we will continue to see more and more teams use this formation.

There are two trends at play here.

One is that in both college and the NFL you are seeing more plays where the QB splits out wide and the RB gets the direct snap from a shotgun position. Kansas City ran this formation several times in pre-season as well as a few other teams. Most defenses will not leave the QB completly alone so moving the QB out wide takes one additional defender out of the box who on a running play would typically completely ignore the QB and focus on the RB giving the defense one additional defender against the run.

Second we have seen this option spread type play where the QB reads the defensive end and decides either to keep the ball (if the DE crashes the line) or hand it off if the DE stays at home has been very succeessful in college the last few years at Florida, Wake Forest, West Virginia, etc. In the NFL we have not seen as much of it because of the general lack of speed at the QB position. But two years ago the Falcons implemented it in their offense after studying tapes of West Virginia and had come success.

Miami (and Arkansas in college) combined these two trends by having the QB split out wide but additionally have the RB run the option spread play. I think we will continue to see this play (out course not to the effectiveness we saw last week) used by Miami and I expect additional teams to pick up on the trend.

 

[Bri]

good post gojints, welcome

 

[Statcruncher]

I think the thing everyone is forgetting is that QB's in college are a fashioned into a different mold than NFL starting caliber QB's. While doing all kinds of cool stuff with your athletic QB's is fun in college the NFL demands better passing, playbook memorization, and defensive reads from that position. If an injury to a NFL starting QB occurs during a gimmick play it could cost a team it's season and a coach his job. The more you get a QB outside the pocket the more likely he's going to get hammered.

I may be mistaken but I believe it is perfectly legal to smoke Chad Pennington cleanly if he's split wide on a running play and even vaguely attempting to block. The rules are designed to protect the QB (generally the guy who takes the snap) not some arbitrary roster designation. If you don't take the snap and don't even line-up in the backfield I don't see how you can be protected by rules for the QB.

I agree that trick plays/formations are occasionally great because they force a D to specifically gameplan against them. However I find it hard to believe that they are making a comeback in all but the most dire and extreme of situations, such as 3 seconds left in the game and we need 40 yards for the winning TD.

 

[gregjcross]

I think we will continue to see more and more teams use this formation.There are two trends at play here. One is that in both college and the NFL you are seeing more plays where the QB splits out wide and the RB gets the direct snap from a shotgun position. Kansas City ran this formation several times in pre-season as well as a few other teams. Most defenses will not leave the QB completly alone so moving the QB out wide takes one additional defender out of the box who on a running play would typically completely ignore the QB and focus on the RB giving the defense one additional defender against the run.Second we have seen this option spread type play where the QB reads the defensive end and decides either to keep the ball (if the DE crashes the line) or hand it off if the DE stays at home has been very succeessful in college the last few years at Florida, Wake Forest, West Virginia, etc. In the NFL we have not seen as much of it because of the general lack of speed at the QB position. But two years ago the Falcons implemented it in their offense after studying tapes of West Virginia and had come success.Miami (and Arkansas in college) combined these two trends by having the QB split out wide but additionally have the RB run the option spread play. I think we will continue to see this play (out course not to the effectiveness we saw last week) used by Miami and I expect additional teams to pick up on the trend.

I think you are wrong, it's not for the NFL. It wont work mid or long term, and the Dolphins presented a very unique situation for one week against a team which was asleep at the wheel. Great running by Brown and nice innovation by Sparano-- but they better find another rabbit to pull out of the hat for next week.

 

[Aaronstory]

Great read on this here: (there's a great You Tube video in the original post as well)

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/09/...otes-92308.html

Wildcat, meet the Patriots. There's plenty of buzz going around about the Patriots losing big to the Dolphins. And there's lots of buzz that the Dolphins used a funky formation to do it. This buzz isn't all positive, as for some reason NFL guys (announcers, everybody) can only act derisively when they see something that strikes them as a "college formation" or part a "college offense." (Nevermind that Bill Walsh's West Coast Offense began as a "college offense" at Stanford.) I generally take the view that the NFL guys actually are right when they say their game is more complex and intricate than the college game, largely because they have near infinite resources and time to devote to those things. (And most every NFL game is a close one.) But it's like these NFL guys failed to see a single college game over the past three years.

If they had, they might have realized that what the Dolphins did against the Patriots was employ the "Wildcat" formation, made famous by Arkansas which used it with Darren McFadden running the show. The basis for the set is a single quarterback -- actually the running back -- and another running back who goes in motion to either run or fake a jet sweep. The other reason it is unforgiveable that these commentators can't figure this out is that this is not a bolt out of the blue: The quarterbacks coach for the Dolphins is David Lee, who was the offensive coordinator for the Arkansas Razorbacks last season under Houston Nutt.

Now, the common wisdom among these NFL guys now is that this was a one-week fad, if the Dolphins even try to use it next week it will be snuffed out because coaches around the league have analyzed this, diagnosed it, and will annihilate it if Miami ever tries to use it again. Maybe so. But I wouldn't be on it. Of course this is not an every down thing (unless Ronnie Brown starts throwing twenty passes a game), but the reason this worked -- unlike some other NFL experiments with the zone-read or other gun styles -- is that this is an actual series rather than just a play or two. That's obviously the case because, as Lee explains in the video, it hinges on being a series rather than just a "good play." And the fact that it is a series makes it a self-contained offense in itself, as the series anticipates a defense's adjustments. Maybe it won't work, but I'd be surprised if it is as useless as these talking heads seem to think it will be. Just ask the Pats.

It was 6 plays resulting in 4 TDs. While I guess 4 single initial plays that resulted in a TD could also be considerred a series....I don't think that's a selling point here.It's always good to hear other opinions though, thanks for posting it.

You're assuming we've seen all the options they have out of that formation? Somehow, I doubt it.

 

[Bri]

Aaron I just mentioned results from last week.

If you(or that author) think it will be used for a series that is interesting and we'll see. I didn't "get that" from the article but can understand the David Lee video point