Tice is Done in MN! (1 Viewer)

[Hinezer]

How many coaches lose two of the best players in the league (one to trade, one to injury) survive a disastrous off the field debacle that includes much of the team, and still goes 9-7?

They would not have finished 9-7 if their injured other best player (Culpepper) hadn't gotten injured. He was having a terrible season and Brad Johnson's play at QB was key to their midseason turnaround. Just wanted to point that out.

Who did the Vikings beat after Culpepper got hurt? 5 games against bad teams, 1 game against a Bears team that was playing their backups most of the game and 1 game against the Giants where the defense and special teams scored most of the points. The Vikings would have won those seven games no matter who the QB was.

I disagree. Culpepper had reverted back into a turnover machine this year and that could have spelled disaster in some of those close games. On the other hand, Johnson is more conservative and doesn't make crucial mistakes as often as Culpepper does.

But when he got hurt, Culpepper was playing much better. He was looking like he did last year with very sharp passes.Do you seriously believe that Culpepper wouldn't have beat the Lions twice, the Packers at home, the Browns and the Rams with Fitzpatrick throwing 4 or 5 INTs? The defense played very well during that stretch in terms of creating turnovers and not giving up yards or points.

As for the Giants game, I think he would have managed better than the 3 offensive points that Brad put up. Today he would have won because the offensive line actually blocked (considering they were going up backups).

The "Vikings were winning because of Brad Johnson" argument is very weak. Yes, Brad Johnson not turning the ball over was part of the reason why they went on the winning streak, but the much bigger part was the easy schedule and improved defensive play.

 

[packersfan]

2. Decline in running the ball/Rb rotation mismanagement. The Vikings used to be a top 5 rushing team and a top 5 offense.

All this despite having quality talent at the RB position. I don't think it's a coincidence that Michael Bennett's career began to decline once Mike Tice became the head coach.

Bennett was the only RB that in anyway benefitted from Tices handling of the running backs. This coaching staff should have committed to Moore from the start of the season.

I wouldn't dispute that, but the bottom line is Tice can't ever pick a RB and stick with him. Look at how he handled last week's situation for example. Bennett gets the "start" but then inexplicably gets benched after just two touches (one of which resulted in a 10-yard gain). Meanwhile, Moore -- who had barely sniffed the field for the previous few games -- got all of the work because Tice had a good "feel" about him. It's hard to play for a coach who goes from week to week having no clue how to use his personnel and the Vikings' RB situation was one of the most concrete examples, in my opinion, of Tice's ineptitude as a head coach. Granted, all of the RBs he's had have had issues of one kind or another but it's really not that hard to just pick one guy and stick with him. Other NFL head coaches do it all the time and a lot of 'em don't have the talent at RB that Tice has had.

 

[w3junky]

I just seriously wonder how many coaches could handle that adversity and finish 9-7 including reeling off 6 in a row?

J

Yeah, but you don't dismiss rape charges just because the accused put the woman's clothes back on her after he's done. Tice helped foster the environment which led to the Vikings' embarassment and underachieving the last few years. Just because he cleaned up his act the last half of the season doesn't warrant a contract extension. As a Vikings fan, I feel this is a long time coming.Gregg Williams, anyone?

Gregg Williams was horrid in buffalo, so NO!Also a Big NO to FASSEL which is who I fear the vikes end up with.

Tice had many short comings as coach and the team was way too streaky.

Ditto! No way in hell do I want Gregg Williams as the next coach. Or Martz for that matter! IMO, we need a up and coming OC or DC who hasn't failed as a coach in the past.

 

[cracKer]

How many coaches lose two of the best players in the league (one to trade, one to injury) survive a disastrous off the field debacle that includes much of the team, and still goes 9-7?

I realize he's the trendy guy to call an idiot but the herd mentality on this one is interesting to me.

J

Also remember Joe that, over the last year or two, the Vikings have had disastrous off-seasons (DUI's and such). The ticket scalping, the Love Boat...probably not the image that a new owner wants to start off with.Do they open up the checkbook for a real HC or continue with the frugal approach?

 

[saabcaptain]

While I agree with the decision to let Mike Tice go, I have to say the way in which this was done was the most classless firing of a head coach I have seen in the NFL. Mike Tice DID NOT ASK for the decision to be made today, after a game in which his team won, but rather had a scheduled meeting tommorow. Everyone knew what was coming but to find out in the back of your winning locker room and then not be able to tell your players or your wife in person or before the media knew because of a press release... disgusting.

 

[BeTheMatch]

How many coaches lose two of the best players in the league (one to trade, one to injury) survive a disastrous off the field debacle that includes much of the team, and still goes 9-7?

I realize he's the trendy guy to call an idiot but the herd mentality on this one is interesting to me.

J

Also remember Joe that, over the last year or two, the Vikings have had disastrous off-seasons (DUI's and such). The ticket scalping, the Love Boat...probably not the image that a new owner wants to start off with.Do they open up the checkbook for a real HC or continue with the frugal approach?

Continue? Wilf had nothing to do with the previous years of frugality under Red McCombs.

 

[bakes]

I just seriously wonder how many coaches could handle that adversity and finish 9-7 including reeling off 6 in a row?

J

Yeah, but you don't dismiss rape charges just because the accused put the woman's clothes back on her after he's done. Tice helped foster the environment which led to the Vikings' embarassment and underachieving the last few years. Just because he cleaned up his act the last half of the season doesn't warrant a contract extension. As a Vikings fan, I feel this is a long time coming.Gregg Williams, anyone?

Gregg Williams was horrid in buffalo, so NO!Also a Big NO to FASSEL which is who I fear the vikes end up with.

Tice had many short comings as coach and the team was way too streaky.

Ditto! No way in hell do I want Gregg Williams as the next coach. Or Martz for that matter! IMO, we need a up and coming OC or DC who hasn't failed as a coach in the past.

Agreed - fresh faces would be the way to go IMO. Payton would seem to be a good choice, but if Tuna retires he could be in line in Dallas.All I know is, if they hire Martz, they'd better have it in his contact that he has to have Viking horns epoxied to his omnipresent headset.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

How many coaches lose two of the best players in the league (one to trade, one to injury) survive a disastrous off the field debacle that includes much of the team, and still goes 9-7?

I realize he's the trendy guy to call an idiot but the herd mentality on this one is interesting to me.

J

He was an idiot before this season Joe.

No doubt he's been the trendy guy for a long while to be called an idiot. With the Rocky Balboa voice he's an easy target.I just seriously wonder how many coaches could handle that adversity and finish 9-7 including reeling off 6 in a row?

J

Especially reeling off 6 in a row under circumstances that have "team implosion" written all over them.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Joe,

Being a long-suffering Vikings fan since the days of Tommy Kramer, Ahmad Rashad and Sammy White, I think I can speak with just a little "authority" when I say that Mike Tice IS NOT an idiot! HOWEVER, that's the short-hand most people use for saying:

1. Tice is too much "heart" and not enough "head" when it comes to being a head coach. Every game, Tice makes decisions "in the heat of the moment" rather than with the best overall outcome for the team in mind. On a regular basis, he wastes challenges (timeouts), calls/doesn't call plays, is TERRIBLE at clock management, etc., and that costs the team in the end.

2. Tice is like a divorced parent who wants to be their kid's "buddy" instead of their "father". His players love him accordingly but, like teenagers, they get themselves into a LOT of **** both on and off-the-field because of it. Basically, the team needs more of a "father-figure" and less "one of the boys" identity at the head coaching position.

3. Love him or hate him, Tice has a L-O-N-G and colorful record of saying and doing some dumb-*** stuff. As others have said, I think he would make a wonderful O-Line or Tight Ends Coach for just about any NFL team in the league. Placing him at the "head" of the organization on the field....and all of the attention and media coverage that comes with it though, and all of his flaws become SERIOUSLY exposed.

Most folks aren't saying he's not a nice guy, and I'm sure that many, MANY players will miss having him around! That said, the Vikings have been chronic under-achievers pretty-much since the Kneel Down Denny debacle against the Falcons and, like with Moss and Red McCombs, a change in identity/personnel will likely be a very positive thing for the long term health and competitiveness of the franchise.

A Viking fan's

This is amazingly From one Viking fan to another

I like Tice and wish him the best. I'm sure he will land on his feet somwhere.

Along those lines; if Tice has a hard time finding work, there is a coach in Central Florida that owes him!

 

[MelvinTScupper]

How many coaches lose two of the best players in the league (one to trade, one to injury) survive a disastrous off the field debacle that includes much of the team, and still goes 9-7?

I realize he's the trendy guy to call an idiot but the herd mentality on this one is interesting to me.

J

Really? What the hell did this guy ever do right? Plan to have his Moss-less, Cul-pepper less team score more points on defense (clearly part of the team he claims no credit for)???You're reaching here.

 

[Biabreakable]

How many coaches lose two of the best players in the league (one to trade, one to injury) survive a disastrous off the field debacle that includes much of the team, and still goes 9-7?

I realize he's the trendy guy to call an idiot but the herd mentality on this one is interesting to me.

J

Really? What the hell did this guy ever do right? Plan to have his Moss-less, Cul-pepper less team score more points on defense (clearly part of the team he claims no credit for)???You're reaching here.

Nice fishing trip Joe

 

[Hamstring]

The move was obviuosly made to clean house and really isn't a reflection on his record this season. Maybe the owner wants to rise above the 9-7; 8-8 fold and needs to dump before he starts hiring people. Tice had an impressive year all things considered.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

The move was all about PR and nothing else.

 

[Rev]

Channel 5's evening news show with coach Tice is pretty well done here. Starts out wierd with Tice checking his cell phone and bragging about his remodeling accomplishments at the Vikings practice facility, but he later says some good things about the team and owners. This was the best I've heard him do!

IMO, combined with his 6-1 finish, this kind of graceful publicity will land him a job next year.

link: http://kstp.dayport.com/viewer/viewerpage.php?Art_ID=164760

 

[BeTheMatch]

According to KFAN, Brad Childress is in town today with some Eagles front-office guy who is a candidate for the GM position.

 

[BigJim®]

2. Decline in running the ball/Rb rotation mismanagement. The Vikings used to be a top 5 rushing team and a top 5 offense.

All this despite having quality talent at the RB position. I don't think it's a coincidence that Michael Bennett's career began to decline once Mike Tice became the head coach.

Bennett was the only RB that in anyway benefitted from Tices handling of the running backs. This coaching staff should have committed to Moore from the start of the season.

I wouldn't dispute that, but the bottom line is Tice can't ever pick a RB and stick with him. Look at how he handled last week's situation for example. Bennett gets the "start" but then inexplicably gets benched after just two touches (one of which resulted in a 10-yard gain). Meanwhile, Moore -- who had barely sniffed the field for the previous few games -- got all of the work because Tice had a good "feel" about him. It's hard to play for a coach who goes from week to week having no clue how to use his personnel and the Vikings' RB situation was one of the most concrete examples, in my opinion, of Tice's ineptitude as a head coach. Granted, all of the RBs he's had have had issues of one kind or another but it's really not that hard to just pick one guy and stick with him. Other NFL head coaches do it all the time and a lot of 'em don't have the talent at RB that Tice has had.

I understand this is a FF board but Tice's use of RBs has to be way, way, way down on the list of reasons he was replaced by Wilf. Ownership wants to start anew and starting it with an on the cheap coach is sort of like building a new home and shopping for furniture at the salvation army. Wilf could never justify paying Tice the dollar figure he plans to pay a coach in 2006.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Anyone have details on his meeting with Zilf?All I've got is Tice saying "I don't know who was more shaken" after the emotional meeting.Shaken like Tice went off or shaken like Wilf hated to have to fire the coach?J

 

[packersfan]

2. Decline in running the ball/Rb rotation mismanagement. The Vikings used to be a top 5 rushing team and a top 5 offense.

All this despite having quality talent at the RB position. I don't think it's a coincidence that Michael Bennett's career began to decline once Mike Tice became the head coach.

Bennett was the only RB that in anyway benefitted from Tices handling of the running backs. This coaching staff should have committed to Moore from the start of the season.

I wouldn't dispute that, but the bottom line is Tice can't ever pick a RB and stick with him. Look at how he handled last week's situation for example. Bennett gets the "start" but then inexplicably gets benched after just two touches (one of which resulted in a 10-yard gain). Meanwhile, Moore -- who had barely sniffed the field for the previous few games -- got all of the work because Tice had a good "feel" about him. It's hard to play for a coach who goes from week to week having no clue how to use his personnel and the Vikings' RB situation was one of the most concrete examples, in my opinion, of Tice's ineptitude as a head coach. Granted, all of the RBs he's had have had issues of one kind or another but it's really not that hard to just pick one guy and stick with him. Other NFL head coaches do it all the time and a lot of 'em don't have the talent at RB that Tice has had.

I understand this is a FF board but Tice's use of RBs has to be way, way, way down on the list of reasons he was replaced by Wilf. Ownership wants to start anew and starting it with an on the cheap coach is sort of like building a new home and shopping for furniture at the salvation army. Wilf could never justify paying Tice the dollar figure he plans to pay a coach in 2006.

I didn't say it was the reason he was fired; I said it was symbolic of his ineptitude as a head coach. He was a poor decision maker. He wavered all over the place and was unable to establish a set pattern of behavior and stick with it. That problem reared its head in terms of how he treated players (which resulted in the often-embarrassing incidents we've seen the last two seasons in particular) as well as the way he coached. It all ties together. Like I said, as an NFL fan, I'm happy for Vikings fans. The guy was an idiot and a poor head coach and no team should have to endure that.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Anyone have details on his meeting with Zilf?

All I've got is Tice saying "I don't know who was more shaken" after the emotional meeting.

Shaken like Tice went off or shaken like Wilf hated to have to fire the coach?

J

Tice said the thing that bothered him was not knowing who gave Wilf the advice to fire him. The meeting was 20 minutes after the game. Wilf showed Tice a one-paragraph press release saying that he was fired and asked him what to do. Tice said to go ahead and release it right away instead of waiting until the morning.Reporters said Wilf walked out of the room red-faced and didn't speak to them, just walked away hurriedly.

 

[Hov34]

shaken like Wilf hated to have to fire the coach?

J

I'm assuming that one... They are both New Jersey guys and Wilf, really liked Tice as a person and a players coach, but Tice is just not a good game day coach.Heck I like Tice, I wish he could stay on as a coach, but I know a whole new regime is in order.

Tice is a 15-year Viking guy and I wish him well as an assistant on another team. Probably the Cardinals or Ravens.

 

[BigJim®]

2. Decline in running the ball/Rb rotation mismanagement. The Vikings used to be a top 5 rushing team and a top 5 offense.

All this despite having quality talent at the RB position. I don't think it's a coincidence that Michael Bennett's career began to decline once Mike Tice became the head coach.

Bennett was the only RB that in anyway benefitted from Tices handling of the running backs. This coaching staff should have committed to Moore from the start of the season.

I wouldn't dispute that, but the bottom line is Tice can't ever pick a RB and stick with him. Look at how he handled last week's situation for example. Bennett gets the "start" but then inexplicably gets benched after just two touches (one of which resulted in a 10-yard gain). Meanwhile, Moore -- who had barely sniffed the field for the previous few games -- got all of the work because Tice had a good "feel" about him. It's hard to play for a coach who goes from week to week having no clue how to use his personnel and the Vikings' RB situation was one of the most concrete examples, in my opinion, of Tice's ineptitude as a head coach. Granted, all of the RBs he's had have had issues of one kind or another but it's really not that hard to just pick one guy and stick with him. Other NFL head coaches do it all the time and a lot of 'em don't have the talent at RB that Tice has had.

I understand this is a FF board but Tice's use of RBs has to be way, way, way down on the list of reasons he was replaced by Wilf. Ownership wants to start anew and starting it with an on the cheap coach is sort of like building a new home and shopping for furniture at the salvation army. Wilf could never justify paying Tice the dollar figure he plans to pay a coach in 2006.

I didn't say it was the reason he was fired; I said it was symbolic of his ineptitude as a head coach. He was a poor decision maker. He wavered all over the place and was unable to establish a set pattern of behavior and stick with it. That problem reared its head in terms of how he treated players (which resulted in the often-embarrassing incidents we've seen the last two seasons in particular) as well as the way he coached. It all ties together. Like I said, as an NFL fan, I'm happy for Vikings fans. The guy was an idiot and a poor head coach and no team should have to endure that.

Well, I could go back and dig up 5-10 of my posts from last off season stating that the Vikes had exactly zero reliable RBs heading into 2005, but I'm too lazy. I disagree that Tice's use of RBs was a reflection on his ineptitude. Tice's use of his RBs was symbolic of the ineptitude of the very brutal Minnesota RB position.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Well, I could go back and dig up 5-10 of my posts from last off season stating that the Vikes had exactly zero reliable RBs heading into 2005, but I'm too lazy.

I disagree that Tice's use of RBs was a reflection on his ineptitude. Tice's use of his RBs was symbolic of the ineptitude of the very brutal Minnesota RB position.

 

[packersfan]

2. Decline in running the ball/Rb rotation mismanagement. The Vikings used to be a top 5 rushing team and a top 5 offense.

All this despite having quality talent at the RB position. I don't think it's a coincidence that Michael Bennett's career began to decline once Mike Tice became the head coach.

Bennett was the only RB that in anyway benefitted from Tices handling of the running backs. This coaching staff should have committed to Moore from the start of the season.

I wouldn't dispute that, but the bottom line is Tice can't ever pick a RB and stick with him. Look at how he handled last week's situation for example. Bennett gets the "start" but then inexplicably gets benched after just two touches (one of which resulted in a 10-yard gain). Meanwhile, Moore -- who had barely sniffed the field for the previous few games -- got all of the work because Tice had a good "feel" about him. It's hard to play for a coach who goes from week to week having no clue how to use his personnel and the Vikings' RB situation was one of the most concrete examples, in my opinion, of Tice's ineptitude as a head coach. Granted, all of the RBs he's had have had issues of one kind or another but it's really not that hard to just pick one guy and stick with him. Other NFL head coaches do it all the time and a lot of 'em don't have the talent at RB that Tice has had.

I understand this is a FF board but Tice's use of RBs has to be way, way, way down on the list of reasons he was replaced by Wilf. Ownership wants to start anew and starting it with an on the cheap coach is sort of like building a new home and shopping for furniture at the salvation army. Wilf could never justify paying Tice the dollar figure he plans to pay a coach in 2006.

I didn't say it was the reason he was fired; I said it was symbolic of his ineptitude as a head coach. He was a poor decision maker. He wavered all over the place and was unable to establish a set pattern of behavior and stick with it. That problem reared its head in terms of how he treated players (which resulted in the often-embarrassing incidents we've seen the last two seasons in particular) as well as the way he coached. It all ties together. Like I said, as an NFL fan, I'm happy for Vikings fans. The guy was an idiot and a poor head coach and no team should have to endure that.

Well, I could go back and dig up 5-10 of my posts from last off season stating that the Vikes had exactly zero reliable RBs heading into 2005, but I'm too lazy. I disagree that Tice's use of RBs was a reflection on his ineptitude. Tice's use of his RBs was symbolic of the ineptitude of the very brutal Minnesota RB position.

There are a number of teams that would love to have the talent at RB the Vikings possess. I'm not saying any of those guys are superstars, but they are talented. Bennett was a Pro Bowl-caliber RB before Tice took over; The Whizzinator has major issues but talent isn't one of them and Moore proved without question this season that when given a chance to play and be left alone he can be a very effective starting RB. Again, I realize all of these guys have issues but Tice never could just pick one guy and stick with him. He's always got to futz around with the position.

 

[snogger]

I still think the owner firing him 45 minutes after winning the last game of the season was VERY classless. Could have waited till Monday. Dang, like he said, he had to call his wife on the phone so she didn't have to hear it from someone else.Just a classless act.

 

[Joe Bryant]

2. Decline in running the ball/Rb rotation mismanagement. The Vikings used to be a top 5 rushing team and a top 5 offense.

All this despite having quality talent at the RB position. I don't think it's a coincidence that Michael Bennett's career began to decline once Mike Tice became the head coach.

Bennett was the only RB that in anyway benefitted from Tices handling of the running backs. This coaching staff should have committed to Moore from the start of the season.

I wouldn't dispute that, but the bottom line is Tice can't ever pick a RB and stick with him. Look at how he handled last week's situation for example. Bennett gets the "start" but then inexplicably gets benched after just two touches (one of which resulted in a 10-yard gain). Meanwhile, Moore -- who had barely sniffed the field for the previous few games -- got all of the work because Tice had a good "feel" about him. It's hard to play for a coach who goes from week to week having no clue how to use his personnel and the Vikings' RB situation was one of the most concrete examples, in my opinion, of Tice's ineptitude as a head coach. Granted, all of the RBs he's had have had issues of one kind or another but it's really not that hard to just pick one guy and stick with him. Other NFL head coaches do it all the time and a lot of 'em don't have the talent at RB that Tice has had.

I understand this is a FF board but Tice's use of RBs has to be way, way, way down on the list of reasons he was replaced by Wilf. Ownership wants to start anew and starting it with an on the cheap coach is sort of like building a new home and shopping for furniture at the salvation army. Wilf could never justify paying Tice the dollar figure he plans to pay a coach in 2006.

I didn't say it was the reason he was fired; I said it was symbolic of his ineptitude as a head coach. He was a poor decision maker. He wavered all over the place and was unable to establish a set pattern of behavior and stick with it. That problem reared its head in terms of how he treated players (which resulted in the often-embarrassing incidents we've seen the last two seasons in particular) as well as the way he coached. It all ties together. Like I said, as an NFL fan, I'm happy for Vikings fans. The guy was an idiot and a poor head coach and no team should have to endure that.

Well, I could go back and dig up 5-10 of my posts from last off season stating that the Vikes had exactly zero reliable RBs heading into 2005, but I'm too lazy. I disagree that Tice's use of RBs was a reflection on his ineptitude. Tice's use of his RBs was symbolic of the ineptitude of the very brutal Minnesota RB position.

There are a number of teams that would love to have the talent at RB the Vikings possess. I'm not saying any of those guys are superstars, but they are talented. Bennett was a Pro Bowl-caliber RB before Tice took over; The Whizzinator has major issues but talent isn't one of them and Moore proved without question this season that when given a chance to play and be left alone he can be a very effective starting RB. Again, I realize all of these guys have issues but Tice never could just pick one guy and stick with him. He's always got to futz around with the position.

Which teams would "love" to swap RBs with the Vikings? J

 

[snogger]

2. Decline in running the ball/Rb rotation mismanagement. The Vikings used to be a top 5 rushing team and a top 5 offense.

All this despite having quality talent at the RB position. I don't think it's a coincidence that Michael Bennett's career began to decline once Mike Tice became the head coach.

Bennett was the only RB that in anyway benefitted from Tices handling of the running backs. This coaching staff should have committed to Moore from the start of the season.

I wouldn't dispute that, but the bottom line is Tice can't ever pick a RB and stick with him. Look at how he handled last week's situation for example. Bennett gets the "start" but then inexplicably gets benched after just two touches (one of which resulted in a 10-yard gain). Meanwhile, Moore -- who had barely sniffed the field for the previous few games -- got all of the work because Tice had a good "feel" about him. It's hard to play for a coach who goes from week to week having no clue how to use his personnel and the Vikings' RB situation was one of the most concrete examples, in my opinion, of Tice's ineptitude as a head coach. Granted, all of the RBs he's had have had issues of one kind or another but it's really not that hard to just pick one guy and stick with him. Other NFL head coaches do it all the time and a lot of 'em don't have the talent at RB that Tice has had.

I understand this is a FF board but Tice's use of RBs has to be way, way, way down on the list of reasons he was replaced by Wilf. Ownership wants to start anew and starting it with an on the cheap coach is sort of like building a new home and shopping for furniture at the salvation army. Wilf could never justify paying Tice the dollar figure he plans to pay a coach in 2006.

I didn't say it was the reason he was fired; I said it was symbolic of his ineptitude as a head coach. He was a poor decision maker. He wavered all over the place and was unable to establish a set pattern of behavior and stick with it. That problem reared its head in terms of how he treated players (which resulted in the often-embarrassing incidents we've seen the last two seasons in particular) as well as the way he coached. It all ties together. Like I said, as an NFL fan, I'm happy for Vikings fans. The guy was an idiot and a poor head coach and no team should have to endure that.

Well, I could go back and dig up 5-10 of my posts from last off season stating that the Vikes had exactly zero reliable RBs heading into 2005, but I'm too lazy. I disagree that Tice's use of RBs was a reflection on his ineptitude. Tice's use of his RBs was symbolic of the ineptitude of the very brutal Minnesota RB position.

There are a number of teams that would love to have the talent at RB the Vikings possess. I'm not saying any of those guys are superstars, but they are talented. Bennett was a Pro Bowl-caliber RB before Tice took over; The Whizzinator has major issues but talent isn't one of them and Moore proved without question this season that when given a chance to play and be left alone he can be a very effective starting RB. Again, I realize all of these guys have issues but Tice never could just pick one guy and stick with him. He's always got to futz around with the position.

1. Bennett couldn't stay healthy or stop fumbling when carrying the ball in the middle of the line.2. Wizzanator would have had his chance if he didn't become the Wizzanator.

3. Shelly Moore couldn't play through a hang nail. until he shows some toughness he won't be a #1 RB for anyone.

4. Fason looks like a Moe Williams type back, course we never saw more than that from him so he could improve.

 

[BigJim®]

There are a number of teams that would love to have the talent at RB the Vikings possess. I'm not saying any of those guys are superstars, but they are talented.

Well at least you stopped short of calling them superstars, because they aren't even close. As far as teams that would love to have the talent of Bennett/SOD/MM, where were all these teams when the Vikes were dangling a RB for trade over last off season? Listen, I understand you are scarred because Green Bay was down to its #27 RB this season, but you will never see any of the existing Minnesota RBs securing a starting RB position [i.e. not RBBC] on any team in the NFL. If MM somehow survives the coaching change and is appointed #1 RB on the Vikes next season, I'd set the over/under of his health at 4 games. He's no more than a 3rd down back on a good team.

 

[BigJim®]

2. Decline in running the ball/Rb rotation mismanagement. The Vikings used to be a top 5 rushing team and a top 5 offense.

All this despite having quality talent at the RB position. I don't think it's a coincidence that Michael Bennett's career began to decline once Mike Tice became the head coach.

Bennett was the only RB that in anyway benefitted from Tices handling of the running backs. This coaching staff should have committed to Moore from the start of the season.

I wouldn't dispute that, but the bottom line is Tice can't ever pick a RB and stick with him. Look at how he handled last week's situation for example. Bennett gets the "start" but then inexplicably gets benched after just two touches (one of which resulted in a 10-yard gain). Meanwhile, Moore -- who had barely sniffed the field for the previous few games -- got all of the work because Tice had a good "feel" about him. It's hard to play for a coach who goes from week to week having no clue how to use his personnel and the Vikings' RB situation was one of the most concrete examples, in my opinion, of Tice's ineptitude as a head coach. Granted, all of the RBs he's had have had issues of one kind or another but it's really not that hard to just pick one guy and stick with him. Other NFL head coaches do it all the time and a lot of 'em don't have the talent at RB that Tice has had.

I understand this is a FF board but Tice's use of RBs has to be way, way, way down on the list of reasons he was replaced by Wilf. Ownership wants to start anew and starting it with an on the cheap coach is sort of like building a new home and shopping for furniture at the salvation army. Wilf could never justify paying Tice the dollar figure he plans to pay a coach in 2006.

I didn't say it was the reason he was fired; I said it was symbolic of his ineptitude as a head coach. He was a poor decision maker. He wavered all over the place and was unable to establish a set pattern of behavior and stick with it. That problem reared its head in terms of how he treated players (which resulted in the often-embarrassing incidents we've seen the last two seasons in particular) as well as the way he coached. It all ties together. Like I said, as an NFL fan, I'm happy for Vikings fans. The guy was an idiot and a poor head coach and no team should have to endure that.

Well, I could go back and dig up 5-10 of my posts from last off season stating that the Vikes had exactly zero reliable RBs heading into 2005, but I'm too lazy. I disagree that Tice's use of RBs was a reflection on his ineptitude. Tice's use of his RBs was symbolic of the ineptitude of the very brutal Minnesota RB position.

There are a number of teams that would love to have the talent at RB the Vikings possess. I'm not saying any of those guys are superstars, but they are talented. Bennett was a Pro Bowl-caliber RB before Tice took over; The Whizzinator has major issues but talent isn't one of them and Moore proved without question this season that when given a chance to play and be left alone he can be a very effective starting RB. Again, I realize all of these guys have issues but Tice never could just pick one guy and stick with him. He's always got to futz around with the position.

Which teams would "love" to swap RBs with the Vikings? J

Like I said in my response to PF... probably only Green Bay.

 

[BeTheMatch]

2. Decline in running the ball/Rb rotation mismanagement. The Vikings used to be a top 5 rushing team and a top 5 offense.

All this despite having quality talent at the RB position. I don't think it's a coincidence that Michael Bennett's career began to decline once Mike Tice became the head coach.

Bennett was the only RB that in anyway benefitted from Tices handling of the running backs. This coaching staff should have committed to Moore from the start of the season.

I wouldn't dispute that, but the bottom line is Tice can't ever pick a RB and stick with him. Look at how he handled last week's situation for example. Bennett gets the "start" but then inexplicably gets benched after just two touches (one of which resulted in a 10-yard gain). Meanwhile, Moore -- who had barely sniffed the field for the previous few games -- got all of the work because Tice had a good "feel" about him. It's hard to play for a coach who goes from week to week having no clue how to use his personnel and the Vikings' RB situation was one of the most concrete examples, in my opinion, of Tice's ineptitude as a head coach. Granted, all of the RBs he's had have had issues of one kind or another but it's really not that hard to just pick one guy and stick with him. Other NFL head coaches do it all the time and a lot of 'em don't have the talent at RB that Tice has had.

I understand this is a FF board but Tice's use of RBs has to be way, way, way down on the list of reasons he was replaced by Wilf. Ownership wants to start anew and starting it with an on the cheap coach is sort of like building a new home and shopping for furniture at the salvation army. Wilf could never justify paying Tice the dollar figure he plans to pay a coach in 2006.

I didn't say it was the reason he was fired; I said it was symbolic of his ineptitude as a head coach. He was a poor decision maker. He wavered all over the place and was unable to establish a set pattern of behavior and stick with it. That problem reared its head in terms of how he treated players (which resulted in the often-embarrassing incidents we've seen the last two seasons in particular) as well as the way he coached. It all ties together. Like I said, as an NFL fan, I'm happy for Vikings fans. The guy was an idiot and a poor head coach and no team should have to endure that.

Well, I could go back and dig up 5-10 of my posts from last off season stating that the Vikes had exactly zero reliable RBs heading into 2005, but I'm too lazy. I disagree that Tice's use of RBs was a reflection on his ineptitude. Tice's use of his RBs was symbolic of the ineptitude of the very brutal Minnesota RB position.

There are a number of teams that would love to have the talent at RB the Vikings possess. I'm not saying any of those guys are superstars, but they are talented. Bennett was a Pro Bowl-caliber RB before Tice took over; The Whizzinator has major issues but talent isn't one of them and Moore proved without question this season that when given a chance to play and be left alone he can be a very effective starting RB. Again, I realize all of these guys have issues but Tice never could just pick one guy and stick with him. He's always got to futz around with the position.

Which teams would "love" to swap RBs with the Vikings? J

Like I said in my response to PF... probably only Green Bay.

Well, you could probably throw in Arizona too.

 

[BigJim®]

Well, you could probably throw in Arizona too.

I doubt it. Michael Bennett got very little interest from Denny Green when rumors were flying last offseason. When Green (reportedly) wouldn't give up a 3rd to grab a guy he used a 1st round rookie pick to select, that is quite telling.

 

[packersfan]

2. Decline in running the ball/Rb rotation mismanagement. The Vikings used to be a top 5 rushing team and a top 5 offense.

All this despite having quality talent at the RB position. I don't think it's a coincidence that Michael Bennett's career began to decline once Mike Tice became the head coach.

Bennett was the only RB that in anyway benefitted from Tices handling of the running backs. This coaching staff should have committed to Moore from the start of the season.

I wouldn't dispute that, but the bottom line is Tice can't ever pick a RB and stick with him. Look at how he handled last week's situation for example. Bennett gets the "start" but then inexplicably gets benched after just two touches (one of which resulted in a 10-yard gain). Meanwhile, Moore -- who had barely sniffed the field for the previous few games -- got all of the work because Tice had a good "feel" about him. It's hard to play for a coach who goes from week to week having no clue how to use his personnel and the Vikings' RB situation was one of the most concrete examples, in my opinion, of Tice's ineptitude as a head coach. Granted, all of the RBs he's had have had issues of one kind or another but it's really not that hard to just pick one guy and stick with him. Other NFL head coaches do it all the time and a lot of 'em don't have the talent at RB that Tice has had.

I understand this is a FF board but Tice's use of RBs has to be way, way, way down on the list of reasons he was replaced by Wilf. Ownership wants to start anew and starting it with an on the cheap coach is sort of like building a new home and shopping for furniture at the salvation army. Wilf could never justify paying Tice the dollar figure he plans to pay a coach in 2006.

I didn't say it was the reason he was fired; I said it was symbolic of his ineptitude as a head coach. He was a poor decision maker. He wavered all over the place and was unable to establish a set pattern of behavior and stick with it. That problem reared its head in terms of how he treated players (which resulted in the often-embarrassing incidents we've seen the last two seasons in particular) as well as the way he coached. It all ties together. Like I said, as an NFL fan, I'm happy for Vikings fans. The guy was an idiot and a poor head coach and no team should have to endure that.

Well, I could go back and dig up 5-10 of my posts from last off season stating that the Vikes had exactly zero reliable RBs heading into 2005, but I'm too lazy. I disagree that Tice's use of RBs was a reflection on his ineptitude. Tice's use of his RBs was symbolic of the ineptitude of the very brutal Minnesota RB position.

There are a number of teams that would love to have the talent at RB the Vikings possess. I'm not saying any of those guys are superstars, but they are talented. Bennett was a Pro Bowl-caliber RB before Tice took over; The Whizzinator has major issues but talent isn't one of them and Moore proved without question this season that when given a chance to play and be left alone he can be a very effective starting RB. Again, I realize all of these guys have issues but Tice never could just pick one guy and stick with him. He's always got to futz around with the position.

Which teams would "love" to swap RBs with the Vikings? J

Cardinals without a doubt.Packers possibly.

Lions possibly

49ers possibly

And that's not taking into account teams like the Texans, Jets, Saints and Eagles who don't have the depth the Vikings have had at RB with Tice.

 

[packersfan]

1. Bennett couldn't stay healthy or stop fumbling when carrying the ball in the middle of the line.

He actually stayed healthy this season for the most part.

2. Wizzanator would have had his chance if he didn't become the Wizzanator.

He also got mucked around by Tice when he was able to play. Just ask switz.

3. Shelly Moore couldn't play through a hang nail. until he shows some toughness he won't be a #1 RB for anyone.

I agree he lacks toughness, but there's no denying he was an effective player when allowed to play and left to play. The problem often was Tice having a bad "feeling" about Moore instead of just putting him in as a RB and letting him play. The fact he would play him as a return man but didn't deem him "healthy" enough to carry the ball in several games is yet another example of how bizarre Tice's mental process was as a head coach.

4. Fason looks like a Moe Williams type back, course we never saw more than that from him so he could improve.

I don't get the man-love Tice had for Fason. He's an upright runner who lacks power and explosiveness and yet that's the guy Tice wanted as his short-yardage RB. Figures.And while he wasn't a great RB, Moe Williams was a pretty solid one. He was versatile, tough, a very good receiver out of the backfield and a gamer.

 

[packersfan]

There are a number of teams that would love to have the talent at RB the Vikings possess. I'm not saying any of those guys are superstars, but they are talented.

Well at least you stopped short of calling them superstars, because they aren't even close.

Of course not. I wasn't even suggesting they are and I made it quite clear that wasn't the case.

As far as teams that would love to have the talent of Bennett/SOD/MM, where were all these teams when the Vikes were dangling a RB for trade over last off season?

If the Colts couldn't get a market for Edge, the Vikings sure as hell weren't going to have a market for any of their RBs. My point wasn't that other teams would chase after them via trade; my point was that there were several teams who lack the talent at RB the Vikings possessed under Tice. Huge difference there.

Listen, I understand you are scarred because Green Bay was down to its #27 RB this season

Ignorant statement, not to mention irrelevent to the discussion. Try again.

but you will never see any of the existing Minnesota RBs securing a starting RB position [i.e. not RBBC] on any team in the NFL. If MM somehow survives the coaching change and is appointed #1 RB on the Vikes next season, I'd set the over/under of his health at 4 games. He's no more than a 3rd down back on a good team.

Please see the point that's being made and not the one you believe is being made. TIA.

 

[BigJim®]

packersfan, seriously... if any of the teams you've mentioned trade for a Viking RB I'll fall off my chair in amazement. They surely could have done so last off season and chose not to. Also, I guess I'll mention you are dead wrong including the Lions. They would never in a million years trade KJ/Pinner for the Vikes motley crew of RBs.

 

[BigJim®]

There are a number of teams that would love to have the talent at RB the Vikings possess. I'm not saying any of those guys are superstars, but they are talented.

Well at least you stopped short of calling them superstars, because they aren't even close.

Of course not. I wasn't even suggesting they are and I made it quite clear that wasn't the case.

As far as teams that would love to have the talent of Bennett/SOD/MM, where were all these teams when the Vikes were dangling a RB for trade over last off season?

If the Colts couldn't get a market for Edge, the Vikings sure as hell weren't going to have a market for any of their RBs. My point wasn't that other teams would chase after them via trade; my point was that there were several teams who lack the talent at RB the Vikings possessed under Tice. Huge difference there.

Listen, I understand you are scarred because Green Bay was down to its #27 RB this season

Ignorant statement, not to mention irrelevent to the discussion. Try again.

but you will never see any of the existing Minnesota RBs securing a starting RB position [i.e. not RBBC] on any team in the NFL. If MM somehow survives the coaching change and is appointed #1 RB on the Vikes next season, I'd set the over/under of his health at 4 games. He's no more than a 3rd down back on a good team.

Please see the point that's being made and not the one you believe is being made. TIA.

Your responses could not be more off base. You flat out said the Vikes have an envied RB situation and I've said otherwise, and backed it up assuring you none of these guys will ever be a #1 RB in the NFL. How that could possibly miss the mark as being off topic in your mind, or misinterpreting your point, is mindboggling to me.

 

[packersfan]

packersfan, seriously... if any of the teams you've mentioned trade for a Viking RB I'll fall off my chair in amazement. They surely could have done so last off season and chose not to. Also, I guess I'll mention you are dead wrong including the Lions. They would never in a million years trade KJ/Pinner for the Vikes motley crew of RBs.

I never said any of those teams would trade for one of the Vikings' RBs. I've even tried to make it clear (again) that wasn't the point I was making. For the last time, the point I am making is that there are a number of teams who have not had the talent or depth at the RB position Tice has enjoyed. And yet the Vikings' running game has gotten worse each season he's been there. They have gone from being one of the league's most feared running games to being one of its most ordinary.

 

[packersfan]

There are a number of teams that would love to have the talent at RB the Vikings possess. I'm not saying any of those guys are superstars, but they are talented.

Well at least you stopped short of calling them superstars, because they aren't even close.

Of course not. I wasn't even suggesting they are and I made it quite clear that wasn't the case.

As far as teams that would love to have the talent of Bennett/SOD/MM, where were all these teams when the Vikes were dangling a RB for trade over last off season?

If the Colts couldn't get a market for Edge, the Vikings sure as hell weren't going to have a market for any of their RBs. My point wasn't that other teams would chase after them via trade; my point was that there were several teams who lack the talent at RB the Vikings possessed under Tice. Huge difference there.

Listen, I understand you are scarred because Green Bay was down to its #27 RB this season

Ignorant statement, not to mention irrelevent to the discussion. Try again.

but you will never see any of the existing Minnesota RBs securing a starting RB position [i.e. not RBBC] on any team in the NFL. If MM somehow survives the coaching change and is appointed #1 RB on the Vikes next season, I'd set the over/under of his health at 4 games. He's no more than a 3rd down back on a good team.

Please see the point that's being made and not the one you believe is being made. TIA.

Your responses could not be more off base. You flat out said the Vikes have an envied RB situation and I've said otherwise, and backed it up assuring you none of these guys will ever be a #1 RB in the NFL. How that could possibly miss the mark as being off topic in your mind, or misinterpreting your point, is mindboggling to me.

Can't say that I'm surprised unfortunately.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Cardinals without a doubt.

Packers possibly.

Lions possibly

49ers possibly

And that's not taking into account teams like the Texans, Jets, Saints and Eagles who don't have the depth the Vikings have had at RB with Tice.

Hi pf,I'd agree with that. So what you're saying is the Vikings had for sure at least the 28th best RB corps. Maybe even as bad as 31st.

J

 

[packersfan]

I'd agree with that. So what you're saying is the Vikings had for sure at least the 28th best RB corps. Maybe even as bad as 31st.

J

No, I'm saying there are a number of teams in the league who would love to have the talent and depth Tice has had at the RB position the past several seasons. Those were just the easiest examples that come to mind. In terms of depth, we could probably add Cleveland, Tennessee, Oakland (before this season), Chicago (before Thomas Jones), Tampa Bay (before Cadillac) and possibly New England to the mix as well. So now we're up to nearly half the league who at one time would have lacked the depth the Vikings had at RB in various seasons under Tice.

 

[BigJim®]

I never said any of those teams would trade for one of the Vikings' RBs. I've even tried to make it clear (again) that wasn't the point I was making. For the last time, the point I am making is that there are a number of teams who have not had the talent or depth at the RB position Tice has enjoyed. And yet the Vikings' running game has gotten worse each season he's been there. They have gone from being one of the league's most feared running games to being one of its most ordinary.

Well, this is my last response to you because you're sort of rude, but the point I am making it you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Rather than having a workhorse, Mike Tice was dealt 5 situational RBs. The only one of them who had a ceiling to surpass that role in the NFL also happened to be a drug abuser looking strike 3 in the nose. Your inclusion of Detroit says a lot about your opinion. KJ/Pinner are far more capable workhorse ball carriers than anything the Vikes have. Go ahead and start up a poll and see how wrong you are saying Detroit envies the likes of Mike Bennett/M.Moore over those two. My guess is 90% disagree, 9% say the Vikes RBBC because they are angry KJ owners, and that last person is you expressing your very wrong opinion.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'd agree with that. So what you're saying is the Vikings had for sure at least the 28th best RB corps. Maybe even as bad as 31st.

J

No, I'm saying there are a number of teams in the league who would love to have the talent and depth Tice has had at the RB position the past several seasons. Those were just the easiest examples that come to mind. In terms of depth, we could probably add Cleveland, Tennessee, Oakland (before this season), Chicago (before Thomas Jones), Tampa Bay (before Cadillac) and possibly New England to the mix as well. So now we're up to nearly half the league who at one time would have lacked the depth the Vikings had at RB in various seasons under Tice.

He got fired today. You have to look at this year:You really think any team would rather have Bennett / Moore / Fason over

Chris Brown / Travis Henry

Lamont Jordan / Zack Crockett

Thomas Jones / Cedric Benson

Cadillac Williams / Michael Pittman

Corey Dillon / Kevin Faulk

I think I'd rather have all those guys than the Vikings corps.

I still think we're looking at them being about the 28th best RB situation in the league.

And a back up QB.

And losing one of the best WRs in the game.

J

 

[packersfan]

Please show me where I ever said any of the Viking RBs were workhorses. Stick to the points being made if you can. And the inclusion of Detroit was done as an example of depth. There's no question Kevin Jones is a more talented RB than anyone the Vikings have, but in terms of depth if you think guys like Pinner and Bryson are better than Bennett, Moore, Smith and Williams well then we might as well end this discussion right now because there's no hope for you. It does tell me you and jwdwcw should get together and go bowling, though.

 

[packersfan]

I'd agree with that. So what you're saying is the Vikings had for sure at least the 28th best RB corps. Maybe even as bad as 31st.

J

No, I'm saying there are a number of teams in the league who would love to have the talent and depth Tice has had at the RB position the past several seasons. Those were just the easiest examples that come to mind. In terms of depth, we could probably add Cleveland, Tennessee, Oakland (before this season), Chicago (before Thomas Jones), Tampa Bay (before Cadillac) and possibly New England to the mix as well. So now we're up to nearly half the league who at one time would have lacked the depth the Vikings had at RB in various seasons under Tice.

He got fired today. You have to look at this year:You really think any team would rather have Bennett / Moore / Fason over

Chris Brown / Travis Henry

Lamont Jordan

Thomas Jones

Cadillac Williams

Corey Dillon

I think I'd rather have all those guys than the Vikings corps.

I still think we're looking at them being about the 28th best RB situation in the league.

And a back up QB.

And losing one of the best WRs in the game.

J

Joe, I'm not talking about this year alone; I'm talking about Tice's entire tenure. I am not saying the Vikings have a better RB than LaMont Jordan, Thomas Jones, Corey Dillon or Cadillac Williams. I am saying that at various times in Tice's career his RB situation has been deeper than those teams have possessed. You mean to tell me you'd rather go with Kevin Faulk or Zack Crockett as your primary RB than Moore, Smith or Bennett if given the choice?

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'd agree with that. So what you're saying is the Vikings had for sure at least the 28th best RB corps. Maybe even as bad as 31st.

J

No, I'm saying there are a number of teams in the league who would love to have the talent and depth Tice has had at the RB position the past several seasons. Those were just the easiest examples that come to mind. In terms of depth, we could probably add Cleveland, Tennessee, Oakland (before this season), Chicago (before Thomas Jones), Tampa Bay (before Cadillac) and possibly New England to the mix as well. So now we're up to nearly half the league who at one time would have lacked the depth the Vikings had at RB in various seasons under Tice.

He got fired today. You have to look at this year:You really think any team would rather have Bennett / Moore / Fason over

Chris Brown / Travis Henry

Lamont Jordan

Thomas Jones

Cadillac Williams

Corey Dillon

I think I'd rather have all those guys than the Vikings corps.

I still think we're looking at them being about the 28th best RB situation in the league.

And a back up QB.

And losing one of the best WRs in the game.

J

Joe, I'm not talking about this year alone; I'm talking about Tice's entire tenure. I am not saying the Vikings have a better RB than LaMont Jordan, Thomas Jones, Corey Dillon or Cadillac Williams. I am saying that at various times in Tice's career his RB situation has been deeper than those teams have possessed. You mean to tell me you'd rather go with Kevin Faulk or Zack Crockett as your primary RB than Moore, Smith or Bennett if given the choice?

No, I'm saying I think there are about 4 or 5 teams in the entire league who would swap RB situations with the Vikings right now.J

 

[packersfan]

I'd agree with that. So what you're saying is the Vikings had for sure at least the 28th best RB corps. Maybe even as bad as 31st.

J

No, I'm saying there are a number of teams in the league who would love to have the talent and depth Tice has had at the RB position the past several seasons. Those were just the easiest examples that come to mind. In terms of depth, we could probably add Cleveland, Tennessee, Oakland (before this season), Chicago (before Thomas Jones), Tampa Bay (before Cadillac) and possibly New England to the mix as well. So now we're up to nearly half the league who at one time would have lacked the depth the Vikings had at RB in various seasons under Tice.

He got fired today. You have to look at this year:You really think any team would rather have Bennett / Moore / Fason over

Chris Brown / Travis Henry

Lamont Jordan

Thomas Jones

Cadillac Williams

Corey Dillon

I think I'd rather have all those guys than the Vikings corps.

I still think we're looking at them being about the 28th best RB situation in the league.

And a back up QB.

And losing one of the best WRs in the game.

J

Joe, I'm not talking about this year alone; I'm talking about Tice's entire tenure. I am not saying the Vikings have a better RB than LaMont Jordan, Thomas Jones, Corey Dillon or Cadillac Williams. I am saying that at various times in Tice's career his RB situation has been deeper than those teams have possessed. You mean to tell me you'd rather go with Kevin Faulk or Zack Crockett as your primary RB than Moore, Smith or Bennett if given the choice?

No, I'm saying I think there are about 4 or 5 teams in the entire league who would swap RB situations with the Vikings right now.J

That may be true for this season, but my point goes further than that.

 

[BigJim®]

Please show me where I ever said any of the Viking RBs were workhorses. Stick to the points being made if you can. And the inclusion of Detroit was done as an example of depth. There's no question Kevin Jones is a more talented RB than anyone the Vikings have, but in terms of depth if you think guys like Pinner and Bryson are better than Bennett, Moore, Smith and Williams well then we might as well end this discussion right now because there's no hope for you. It does tell me you and jwdwcw should get together and go bowling, though.

Ok, now I think I understand your point is that teams would rather have 5 situational RBs than 1 workhorse RB. Because why? They prefer having to switch RBs every other down because this guy can't catch, that guy won't block, and this guy can't stay healthy? I just don't buy it. And as far as the attitude re: people missing your point... how many people have you needed to explain that point to so far... I've lost count.

 

[snogger]

Wanted to add. With such a quick Firing yesterday I think Ziggy has a Head coach in mind and *Might* already have talked to said person "off the record".Thinking Fassel will be hired as soon as the Giants are done. NY ties and Fassel should bring some toughness to the the team.As for GM. No idea

 

[packersfan]

Please show me where I ever said any of the Viking RBs were workhorses. Stick to the points being made if you can. And the inclusion of Detroit was done as an example of depth. There's no question Kevin Jones is a more talented RB than anyone the Vikings have, but in terms of depth if you think guys like Pinner and Bryson are better than Bennett, Moore, Smith and Williams well then we might as well end this discussion right now because there's no hope for you. It does tell me you and jwdwcw should get together and go bowling, though.

Ok, now I think I understand your point is that teams would rather have 5 situational RBs than 1 workhorse RB. Because why? They prefer having to switch RBs every other down because this guy can't catch, that guy won't block, and this guy can't stay healthy? I just don't buy it. And as far as the attitude re: people missing your point... how many people have you needed to explain that point to so far... I've lost count.

If you don't understand the fundamental concept that good teams win with depth -- especially at the RB position -- I'm not surprised you're as confused as you are. And it certainly now makes sense as to why you're defending Tice on this count.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Wanted to add.

With such a quick Firing yesterday I think Ziggy has a Head coach in mind and *Might* already have talked to said person "off the record".

Thinking Fassel will be hired as soon as the Giants are done.

NY ties and Fassel should bring some toughness to the the team.

As for GM. No idea

Fassel is the Ravens' offensive coordinator

 

[BigJim®]

Wanted to add.

With such a quick Firing yesterday I think Ziggy has a Head coach in mind and *Might* already have talked to said person "off the record".

Thinking Fassel will be hired as soon as the Giants are done.

NY ties and Fassel should bring some toughness to the the team.

As for GM. No idea

I don't think there's any way the Vikes go after a coach first and then tell prospective GMs "want a job managing coaches you didn't select?" The only thing that makes sense is that the Vikes are hot for one of the GM candidates in the league and want to be able to hand him a clean slate.