Tice is Done in MN! (1 Viewer)

[datonn]

Thinking Fassel will be hired as soon as the Giants are done.

Um........the Baltimore Ravens, you mean? The Vikings are moving hyper-quick on the GM front, it seems, but I would expect them to take a few weeks before naming a new head coach. There's a LOT of names that recently became available and, though I hope the Vikings don't target a "retread", it'll be tough not to bring 5-6 guys in for an interview......

 

[snogger]

Thanks. For some reason I thought Fassel was over in NY as a coordinator or consultant. for me.

 

[snogger]

To me this is how I'd like to see it go.Jimmy Johnson.. Chances are slim he'd take the job, but he might see some talent there and think he can raise it up to SuperBowl possibility.Fassel - You know he is itching to get back to a Head Caoch job.After that.. I have no idea. You are either going to get some retreads, or coordinators and/or College Coaches that we have no idea how they will handle the Head coaching job in the NFL.

 

[BigJim®]

Please show me where I ever said any of the Viking RBs were workhorses. Stick to the points being made if you can. And the inclusion of Detroit was done as an example of depth. There's no question Kevin Jones is a more talented RB than anyone the Vikings have, but in terms of depth if you think guys like Pinner and Bryson are better than Bennett, Moore, Smith and Williams well then we might as well end this discussion right now because there's no hope for you. It does tell me you and jwdwcw should get together and go bowling, though.

Ok, now I think I understand your point is that teams would rather have 5 situational RBs than 1 workhorse RB. Because why? They prefer having to switch RBs every other down because this guy can't catch, that guy won't block, and this guy can't stay healthy? I just don't buy it. And as far as the attitude re: people missing your point... how many people have you needed to explain that point to so far... I've lost count.

If you don't understand the fundamental concept that good teams win with depth -- especially at the RB position -- I'm not surprised you're as confused as you are. And it certainly now makes sense as to why you're defending Tice on this count.

I defended Tice? I've said only that the Vikes RBs are garbage and not NFL caliber, and certainly not coveted by other NFL teams other than those so very desparate that they'd trade in what they have for a bunch of mediocre [i.e. no where near top 20 NFL RBs] depth. If any of these RBs ever goes anywhere and becomes an NFL starter I'll be dead wrong.

 

[packersfan]

Please show me where I ever said any of the Viking RBs were workhorses. Stick to the points being made if you can. And the inclusion of Detroit was done as an example of depth. There's no question Kevin Jones is a more talented RB than anyone the Vikings have, but in terms of depth if you think guys like Pinner and Bryson are better than Bennett, Moore, Smith and Williams well then we might as well end this discussion right now because there's no hope for you. It does tell me you and jwdwcw should get together and go bowling, though.

Ok, now I think I understand your point is that teams would rather have 5 situational RBs than 1 workhorse RB. Because why? They prefer having to switch RBs every other down because this guy can't catch, that guy won't block, and this guy can't stay healthy? I just don't buy it. And as far as the attitude re: people missing your point... how many people have you needed to explain that point to so far... I've lost count.

If you don't understand the fundamental concept that good teams win with depth -- especially at the RB position -- I'm not surprised you're as confused as you are. And it certainly now makes sense as to why you're defending Tice on this count.

I defended Tice? I've said only that the Vikes RBs are garbage and not NFL caliber, and certainly not coveted by other NFL teams other than those so very desparate that they'd trade in what they have for a bunch of mediocre [i.e. no where near top 20 NFL RBs] depth. If any of these RBs ever goes anywhere and becomes an NFL starter I'll be dead wrong.

I'm willing to bet the Vikings' running game improves next season no matter who they bring in as head coach.

 

[datonn]

To me this is how I'd like to see it go.Jimmy Johnson.. Chances are slim he'd take the job, but he might see some talent there and think he can raise it up to SuperBowl possibility.Fassel - You know he is itching to get back to a Head Caoch job.After that.. I have no idea. You are either going to get some retreads, or coordinators and/or College Coaches that we have no idea how they will handle the Head coaching job in the NFL.

I'd personally LOVE to see Carroll (USC) or Ferentz (Iowa) given a shot (neither has a snowball's chance in Phoenix of happening), or one of the top OC/DC candidates in the league. Fassel doesn't excited me. Neither does Jimmy Johnson, to be honest...as we don't need any more "soap operas" around here. Just give me a Marvin Lewis/Tony Dungy/Lovie Smith-type around the Vikings though and I'll be a SERIOUSLY happy camper!

 

[BigJim®]

Please show me where I ever said any of the Viking RBs were workhorses. Stick to the points being made if you can. And the inclusion of Detroit was done as an example of depth. There's no question Kevin Jones is a more talented RB than anyone the Vikings have, but in terms of depth if you think guys like Pinner and Bryson are better than Bennett, Moore, Smith and Williams well then we might as well end this discussion right now because there's no hope for you. It does tell me you and jwdwcw should get together and go bowling, though.

Ok, now I think I understand your point is that teams would rather have 5 situational RBs than 1 workhorse RB. Because why? They prefer having to switch RBs every other down because this guy can't catch, that guy won't block, and this guy can't stay healthy? I just don't buy it. And as far as the attitude re: people missing your point... how many people have you needed to explain that point to so far... I've lost count.

If you don't understand the fundamental concept that good teams win with depth -- especially at the RB position -- I'm not surprised you're as confused as you are. And it certainly now makes sense as to why you're defending Tice on this count.

I defended Tice? I've said only that the Vikes RBs are garbage and not NFL caliber, and certainly not coveted by other NFL teams other than those so very desparate that they'd trade in what they have for a bunch of mediocre [i.e. no where near top 20 NFL RBs] depth. If any of these RBs ever goes anywhere and becomes an NFL starter I'll be dead wrong.

I'm willing to bet the Vikings' running game improves next season no matter who they bring in as head coach.

I agree. Mainly because every draft prognasticator worth a darn is projecting the Vikes to take a workhorse RB in round 1 of the NFL draft. That hardly supports your pioint.

 

[packersfan]

Please show me where I ever said any of the Viking RBs were workhorses. Stick to the points being made if you can. And the inclusion of Detroit was done as an example of depth. There's no question Kevin Jones is a more talented RB than anyone the Vikings have, but in terms of depth if you think guys like Pinner and Bryson are better than Bennett, Moore, Smith and Williams well then we might as well end this discussion right now because there's no hope for you. It does tell me you and jwdwcw should get together and go bowling, though.

Ok, now I think I understand your point is that teams would rather have 5 situational RBs than 1 workhorse RB. Because why? They prefer having to switch RBs every other down because this guy can't catch, that guy won't block, and this guy can't stay healthy? I just don't buy it. And as far as the attitude re: people missing your point... how many people have you needed to explain that point to so far... I've lost count.

If you don't understand the fundamental concept that good teams win with depth -- especially at the RB position -- I'm not surprised you're as confused as you are. And it certainly now makes sense as to why you're defending Tice on this count.

I defended Tice? I've said only that the Vikes RBs are garbage and not NFL caliber, and certainly not coveted by other NFL teams other than those so very desparate that they'd trade in what they have for a bunch of mediocre [i.e. no where near top 20 NFL RBs] depth. If any of these RBs ever goes anywhere and becomes an NFL starter I'll be dead wrong.

I'm willing to bet the Vikings' running game improves next season no matter who they bring in as head coach.

I agree. Mainly because every draft prognasticator worth a darn is projecting the Vikes to take a workhorse RB in round 1 of the NFL draft. That hardly supports your pioint.

I feel the same way even if the Vikings don't draft a "workhorse" RB.

 

[Hov34]

To me this is how I'd like to see it go.

Fassel - You know he is itching to get back to a Head Caoch job.

Why? No, really why?It will be Childress.

 

[mosesberg]

How many coaches lose two of the best players in the league (one to trade, one to injury) survive a disastrous off the field debacle that includes much of the team, and still goes 9-7?

I realize he's the trendy guy to call an idiot but the herd mentality on this one is interesting to me.

J

Joe I was thinking the same thing.With what he had to work with and all the off field problems, I think he did a good job.

He could have just as easy thrown up his arms and gave up.

And another thing I am worried about here as a Vikings fan is will the players rally

around the new coach?

Tice was well liked by the players.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Please show me where I ever said any of the Viking RBs were workhorses. Stick to the points being made if you can. And the inclusion of Detroit was done as an example of depth. There's no question Kevin Jones is a more talented RB than anyone the Vikings have, but in terms of depth if you think guys like Pinner and Bryson are better than Bennett, Moore, Smith and Williams well then we might as well end this discussion right now because there's no hope for you. It does tell me you and jwdwcw should get together and go bowling, though.

Ok, now I think I understand your point is that teams would rather have 5 situational RBs than 1 workhorse RB. Because why? They prefer having to switch RBs every other down because this guy can't catch, that guy won't block, and this guy can't stay healthy? I just don't buy it. And as far as the attitude re: people missing your point... how many people have you needed to explain that point to so far... I've lost count.

If you don't understand the fundamental concept that good teams win with depth -- especially at the RB position -- I'm not surprised you're as confused as you are. And it certainly now makes sense as to why you're defending Tice on this count.

I defended Tice? I've said only that the Vikes RBs are garbage and not NFL caliber, and certainly not coveted by other NFL teams other than those so very desparate that they'd trade in what they have for a bunch of mediocre [i.e. no where near top 20 NFL RBs] depth. If any of these RBs ever goes anywhere and becomes an NFL starter I'll be dead wrong.

I'm willing to bet the Vikings' running game improves next season no matter who they bring in as head coach.

I agree. Mainly because every draft prognasticator worth a darn is projecting the Vikes to take a workhorse RB in round 1 of the NFL draft. That hardly supports your pioint.

I feel the same way even if the Vikings don't draft a "workhorse" RB.

I think the only way your point has any validity is if they DON'T draft a workhorse RB.

 

[packersfan]

Please show me where I ever said any of the Viking RBs were workhorses. Stick to the points being made if you can. And the inclusion of Detroit was done as an example of depth. There's no question Kevin Jones is a more talented RB than anyone the Vikings have, but in terms of depth if you think guys like Pinner and Bryson are better than Bennett, Moore, Smith and Williams well then we might as well end this discussion right now because there's no hope for you. It does tell me you and jwdwcw should get together and go bowling, though.

Ok, now I think I understand your point is that teams would rather have 5 situational RBs than 1 workhorse RB. Because why? They prefer having to switch RBs every other down because this guy can't catch, that guy won't block, and this guy can't stay healthy? I just don't buy it. And as far as the attitude re: people missing your point... how many people have you needed to explain that point to so far... I've lost count.

If you don't understand the fundamental concept that good teams win with depth -- especially at the RB position -- I'm not surprised you're as confused as you are. And it certainly now makes sense as to why you're defending Tice on this count.

I defended Tice? I've said only that the Vikes RBs are garbage and not NFL caliber, and certainly not coveted by other NFL teams other than those so very desparate that they'd trade in what they have for a bunch of mediocre [i.e. no where near top 20 NFL RBs] depth. If any of these RBs ever goes anywhere and becomes an NFL starter I'll be dead wrong.

I'm willing to bet the Vikings' running game improves next season no matter who they bring in as head coach.

I agree. Mainly because every draft prognasticator worth a darn is projecting the Vikes to take a workhorse RB in round 1 of the NFL draft. That hardly supports your pioint.

I feel the same way even if the Vikings don't draft a "workhorse" RB.

I think the only way your point has any validity is if they DON'T draft a workhorse RB.

Yup. Otherwise it's pure speculation which I don't deny at all.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I've heard lots of people mention Jamal Lewis, Ahman Green, and others. Would probably be more cap friendly and would allow them to get a LB (Greenway?) in the first round.

 

[BigJim®]

I've heard lots of people mention Jamal Lewis, Ahman Green, and others. Would probably be more cap friendly and would allow them to get a LB (Greenway?) in the first round.

I'd be happy with either approach. I'd certainly feel better spending $4M cap on A.Green than giving Maroney/L.White a multi year rookie deal to maybe be capable of carrying the load. To me the key thing is to get anything resembling a proven 25-carry RB. For the first time in years the Vike RB may be worth something in FF with the return of Birk and maturation of Marcus Johnson, and Kleinsasser being a full year past ACL. The big x-factor to me is whether a combo like Heckert/Childress could somehow maintain RBBC. They never pursued a franchise back in Philly and to me they've paid the price relying so heavily on McNabb. I just hope the next GM appreciates the importance of a 25 carry RB with Culpepper still on the mend for the forseeable future.

 

[vitaflo]

Joe I was thinking the same thing.

With what he had to work with and all the off field problems, I think he did a good job.

He could have just as easy thrown up his arms and gave up.

And another thing I am worried about here as a Vikings fan is will the players rally

around the new coach?

Tice was well liked by the players.

Tice spent the first few years of coaching caring more about what his players thought of him than he did in coaching the team. That's been reported quite a bit here. It wasn't until this year with all the issues that he finally got in people's faces. One of his big problems is that he can't take criticism and lacks any accountability. Sure, he'll be the first to say responsibility of loses etc rest on the head coaches shoulders, but once he's called out on a loss or things that have gone wrong, he'll be the first to point fingers. Just listen to any of his interviews.In the end though I think it was the ticket scandal and love boat that led to the firing. Ziggy doesn't want the perception of his coach to be that he's a cheat or lacks disapline over his team, and whether that's even true or not, that's the general perception. Thus the firing. I doubt it had much to do with the teams record.

 

[datonn]

I've heard lots of people mention Jamal Lewis, Ahman Green, and others. Would probably be more cap friendly and would allow them to get a LB (Greenway?) in the first round.

I'd be happy with either approach. I'd certainly feel better spending $4M cap on A.Green than giving Maroney/L.White a multi year rookie deal to maybe be capable of carrying the load. To me the key thing is to get anything resembling a proven 25-carry RB. For the first time in years the Vike RB may be worth something in FF with the return of Birk and maturation of Marcus Johnson, and Kleinsasser being a full year past ACL. The big x-factor to me is whether a combo like Heckert/Childress could somehow maintain RBBC. They never pursued a franchise back in Philly and to me they've paid the price relying so heavily on McNabb. I just hope the next GM appreciates the importance of a 25 carry RB with Culpepper still on the mend for the forseeable future.

Assuming that the Vikings don't make a play for Shaun Alexander or Edgerrin James, what are our options for a RB through free agency?Ahman Green UFA PackersAnthony Thomas UFA SaintsAntowain Smith UFA SaintsArlen Harris RFA RamsArtose Pinner RFA LionsAveion Cason UFA RamsChad Morton UFA GiantsChester Taylor UFA RavensDavid Allen RFA RamsDeShaun Foster UFA PanthersJ.R. Redmond UFA CardinalsJamal Lewis UFA RavensJames Jackson UFA CardinalsJonathan Wells UFA TexansKenny Watson UFA BengalsLaBrandon Toefield RFA JaguarsLamar Gordon UFA EaglesMaurice Morris UFA SeahawksMichael Bennett UFA VikingsMike Cloud UFA PatriotsMoe Williams UFA VikingsMusa Smith RFA RavensNajeh Davenport UFA PackersOmar Easy UFA RaidersReno Mahe RFA EaglesRicky Proehl UFA PanthersRock Cartwright UFA RedskinsRon Dayne UFA BroncosShawn Bryson UFA LionsSteve Bush UFA 49ersTony Fisher UFA PackersTravis Minor UFA DolphinsVerron Haynes UFA SteelersFrom that list, I guess I'd probably look at: 1. Jamal Lewis, though I think the Ravens will re-sign him.2. DeShaun Foster, though the Panthers won't let him get away.3. Ahman Green. 4. Chester Taylor. I'd love to see what he could do being the main guy out of the backfield for an extended period.....5. Artose Pinner, though I don't know if the Lions would let him go to a division foe.Not a bad short-list, though the question to ask is would those guys be better than a Moore/O. Smith/Fason backfield? Lewis, Foster and Green would be obvious "YES" answers to that question, while Taylor and Pinner MIGHT be (depending upon O. Smith's status, though I think Moore and Taylor/Pinner are comparable).Looks like there are five RBs to target in the off-season as "feature backs" (SA, Edge, Lewis, Foster and Green), then two more guys to tag as cheaper/younger RBBC additions to replace Bennett and Moe Williams in the rotation/depth chart (Taylor and Pinner).What say thee?!

 

[reg]

A good friend of mine who works for the Vikings said that Tice showed up on Friday in one of those "I got laid on Al & Alma's" joke shirts that were being sold.

 

[Bri]

shaken like Wilf hated to have to fire the coach?

J

I'm assuming that one... They are both New Jersey guys and Wilf, really liked Tice as a person and a players coach, but Tice is just not a good game day coach.

Tice is from NY

 

[Red Apples]

tice & haslett remind me of a gayer version of brokeback mountain.

 

[Red Apples]

Joe Bryant,Jan 1 2006, 08:34 PM]How many coaches lose two of the best players in the league (one to trade, one to injury) survive a disastrous off the field debacle that includes much of the team, and still goes 9-7?I realize he's the trendy guy to call an idiot but the herd mentality on this one is interesting to me.J

how many coaches get busted for scalping their super bowl tickets?how many coaches have member of their team busted on a sex cruise?how many coaches have their leading rusher get busted w/ the original whizz-a-nator?the coach has to take the fall on this. the writing was on the wall for a long time and missing the playoffs cinched it.

 

[Csonka4life]

Well he can always get a job as a bordello host in Nevada or maybe VIP host for a casino and he can give the high rollers free superbowl tickets and get one of the Vikings to tell the highrollers about the numerous escort services in the Vegas area.........

 

[Muahahaha]

A good friend of mine who works for the Vikings said that Tice showed up on Friday in one of those "I got laid on Al & Alma's" joke shirts that were being sold.

If this is true, it is indeed sad. Classless. No true leader would ever do this. Thanks for pointing this out, Reg.Initially I was somewhat embarrassed that the Vikings fired Tice so quickly. I thought it was a classless move on Wilf's part. I even overheard people at the bowl game I went to yesterday commenting on it. Glad to hear the explanation that it was Tice's decision to announce it so quickly.

I was also glad to hear Wilf say the following on Sportscenter yesterday: "I want to win a Super Bowl. Money is no object."

I am beginning to think that Wilf was the best Xmas present I got this year.

While I sympathize with Joe's comments about Tice's record, it was extraordinarily obvious to me that this team was under-coached over the last few years. Discipline and fundamentals were lacking to the Nth degree. It was painful to watch the New England Patriots and see how a well-coached team looks out on the field. I wanted that for my team as a Vikings fan.

You should understand Joe that a huge part of the reason for this season's turnaround was the use of outside "consultants" like Foge Fazio who effectively began coaching this team for the first time midseason. Wilf saw the same things that everyone saw in that 2-5 team early in the season: a team that effectively had no coaching. He brought in help and effectively over-hauled the coaching staff in an attempt to salvage something out of the season. Wilf de facto fired Tice months ago; Sunday's announcement was really just to make it official to the outside world. Tice has largely been a figurehead for some time.

Now if we hire Heckert/Childress, two key parts of the most successful NFC franchise in the last five years, I will probably end up getting my best Xmas present for 2006.

 

[BigJim®]

Now if we hire Heckert/Childress, two key parts of the most successful NFC franchise in the last five years, I will probably end up getting my best Xmas present for 2006.

Won't be Heckert... he re-upped with Philly yesterday.From the Star-Trib:

The Vikings refocused on the coaching situation hours after learning that Tom Heckert, their top choice to fill their vacant personnel job, had decided to remain in Philadelphia with the new title of general manager. Heckert's decision left three known candidates for the job: current Vikings employees Scott Studwell and Jeff Robinson, along with Denver director of pro personnel Rick Smith.