What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Times have changed (1 Viewer)

As a child, growing up in Wisconsin, I was raised in a hunting and fishing culture.  I got my BB gun at 8, my first shotgun at 10, my first .22 at 11, and my first 30.06 at 12 years old.  I became somewhat proficient with those weapons. I hunted with my Father, Uncles, Grandfather, and Great Uncles supervision to some success.   Our Thanksgivng for the extended family of some 50 folks was supplied by us.  It would feature venison, turkey, pheasant, goose, and duck.  Back then, if a young man wanted to hunt without adult supervision one had to take a Hunter's Safety Course.  Upon successful completion of that course one could hunt with long guns without adult supervison at 14 years old.  I did, meaning both complete the course and hunt, lawfully, without adult supervison. I could lawfully carry and hunt with my gun.  BTW the gun I used for whitetail was at one time a military weapon.

The Hunter's Safety Course was taught in Junior Highschool.  That same Junior Highschool had a rifle team, just like it had a football team, a basketball team and a cross country team.  Kids would walk to and from school carrying rifles.  Now they had to be checked in at the office when one got there, but they did  carry weapons.  In fairness and full disclosure these were not high powered weapons by any means.

In woodshop class, a mandatory class for boys, we had three potential final projects.  One was a gun rack for one's pickup as it was presumed one would probably be getting a pickup in the future and it was presumed one would own and need to transport guns.

In Highschool, in the fall, it was common to see vehicles students drove to school parked in the lot with full gun racks as they either had just come from hunting or were likely to be going out to do so after school.  Kids with guns were not at all unusual or illegal.

During deer season tens upon tens of thousands of flatlanders from illinois would flood across our borders, carrying, naturally, weapons to engage in our hunt.  The hunt was big business and well promoted.  No one thought anything of persons crossing state lines with weapons.  It was normal.  It was encouraged in spite of the fact that many of those folks from Illinois could not tell a whitetail from a holstein. 

Now, well now I am lead to believe that young adults cannot be armed, that crossing state lines with weapons is a sin and more importantly against the law, and that hunting is some sort of white privilege or perhaps cultural appropriation from native americans and that being engaged in such may even indicate something dark within one's very soul.  Perhaps times have changed.  Perhaps my direct knowledge of things from years ago, my direct experience is no longer relevant.  Perhaps. Watching T.V., reading the news, I now learn that what I then knew the law to be is no longer the law.  I am told that the practices then are no longer the practices.   The whitetail are safe now from folks from Illinois as they will not be crossing the border armed for a hunt.

On an unrelated note one inserting themselves into chaos, one seeking out conflict, for excitement, ought not to then be able to claim they had their hands forced by that very chaos.  This is, of course, a personal perspective, not a summary of the law.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wierd.  A perusal of Wisconsin law seems to indicate that Gov. Walker did reinstate the laws more or less as I remember them from my childhood.  I would not have known this from watching national news on T.V.  Seems pundits might have been obtained from Wisconsin, maybe from rural Wisconsin, and not from some incubating lab sheltered from the laws and customs and practices of that State.

BTW, I hate Illinois Nazis, Tigerton Dells Militia, and idgits who think guns are toys or a substitute for responsible citizenship.

 
  • Thanks
Reactions: JAA
Now, well now I am lead to believe that young adults cannot be armed, that crossing state lines with weapons is a sin and more importantly against the law, and that hunting is some sort of white privilege or perhaps cultural appropriation from native americans and that being engaged in such may even indicate something dark within one's very soul. 


You've been ill-advised as to this part my friend.  There's no law prohibiting anyone from bringing a gun across a state border into Wisconsin, the the possession laws regarding minors still allow young men and women to own and operate rifles (handguns and short-barreled rifles are verboten.)  

Hope all is well. Your input is appreciated as always.

 
You've been ill-advised as to this part my friend.  There's no law prohibiting anyone from bringing a gun across a state border into Wisconsin, the the possession laws regarding minors still allow young men and women to own and operate rifles (handguns and short-barreled rifles are verboten.)  

Hope all is well. Your input is appreciated as always.
Perhaps I should take caution, then, on where I turn for information.  Yes, that could be it.

 
You've been ill-advised as to this part my friend.  There's no law prohibiting anyone from bringing a gun across a state border into Wisconsin, the the possession laws regarding minors still allow young men and women to own and operate rifles (handguns and short-barreled rifles are verboten.)  

Hope all is well. Your input is appreciated as always.
I am guessing that when I was young the laws were written in a masculine vernacular.  They would have applied also to women, but would not have been written that way.  I imagine now that has changed.  I can say that in my Hunter's Safety course there were no females.  They were down the hall in home economics classes.  Times have changed.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Who believes young adults cant be armed?  Who believes young adults cant go hunting or take hunter safety classes?

 
Who believes young adults cant be armed?  Who believes young adults cant go hunting or take hunter safety classes?
I believe an A.D.A in Kenosha may have.  I am surprised that he thought this was maybe so given the prevelance of Hunter's Safety courses in Wisconsin when I was young, but I allow that maybe that practice is no longer prevelant.  It has been many years since I have been to my birth state.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Who believes young adults cant be armed?  Who believes young adults cant go hunting or take hunter safety classes?
I believe an A.D.A in Kenosha may have.  I am surprised that he thought this was maybe so given the prevelance of Hunter's safety courses in Wisconsin when I was young, but I allow that maybe that practice is no lonmger prevelant.  It has been many years since I have been to my birth state.
OK.  You might want to specify the folks you are referring to.  Your comments to me felt very generalized.

 
I'm sure it's been said sometime over the years, but where in WI did you grow up?

I am honestly not 100% sure the point of the OP, but it did get my wheels turning as usual about what changed and when.    Also a question that came to mind is that while you had that experience in WI (and the tone that I picked up on was it was rural WI) - did the kids in Madison and Milwaukee have a similar experience, or was it already changing? 

I also grew up in WI, but have never held a gun, and besides service weapons and my Dad's bb gun he used to shoot at animals that annoyed him in our yard, I don't think I've even been in close proximity to one.   As far as changes, I assume it's a mix of:  SM, Columbine, media, there are more of us and packed closer together, decreased sense of community, etc, etc..  that all come into play and make it hard for people to separate out causes.     

Sorry in advance if I completely misread your post.... 

 
I'm sure it's been said sometime over the years, but where in WI did you grow up?

I am honestly not 100% sure the point of the OP, but it did get my wheels turning as usual about what changed and when.    Also a question that came to mind is that while you had that experience in WI (and the tone that I picked up on was it was rural WI) - did the kids in Madison and Milwaukee have a similar experience, or was it already changing? 

I also grew up in WI, but have never held a gun, and besides service weapons and my Dad's bb gun he used to shoot at animals that annoyed him in our yard, I don't think I've even been in close proximity to one.   As far as changes, I assume it's a mix of:  SM, Columbine, media, there are more of us and packed closer together, decreased sense of community, etc, etc..  that all come into play and make it hard for people to separate out causes.     

Sorry in advance if I completely misread your post.... 
I grew up in rural Waukesha County, in/near Chenequa to be more precise.  I split time between there and my Grandfather's farm outside of Beloit, in quite a rural setting.  I have no way of knowing absolutely the experience of more suburban or urban kids but i accept that their experience was very different.  Still, I was a bit amazed at the charging by the Kenosha D.A., particularly in light of the fact that Gov. Walker, in 2017, signed legislation affirming the long standing practice.  News of that signing reached  my ears a thousand miles away.  I thought it would have reached Kenosha.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I understand Waukesha is no longer rural. Many trophy homes and McMansions now from what I understand.  The farm I and my brothers owned as an investment was sold decades ago to provide Waukesha, and Milwaukee with water needed for a consent decree between Milwaukee and Chicago over Lake Michigan pollution. That quarter section of land is, I now understand, all McMansions.  At one time it held quite a few pheasants and whitetail.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
my Dad was born in 1935 - they took guns to school, almost all the boys did ... that was in the 1940's nobody ever shot anybody

I graduated in 1987 .... and many of the guys had guns in the racks of our trucks - nobody ever shot anybody

guns haven't changed - people have changed

oh and my school let out 3 days for deer season - ad every year, tens of millions of hours are spent by people with guns in the woods hunting ... and rarely does anyone ever get shot

its not the guns

 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Thanks
Reactions: JAA
my Dad was born in 1935 - they took guns to school, almost all the boys did ... that was in the 1940's nobody ever shot anybody

I graduated in 1987 .... and many of the guys had guns in the racks of our trucks - nobody ever shot anybody

guns haven't changed - people have changed

oh and my school let out 3 days for deer season - ad every year, tens of millions of hours are spent by people with guns in the woods hunting ... and rarely does anyone ever get shot

its not the guns


When I was a boy the Miwaukee Journal, during deer season, would run a graphic showing the number of whitetail taken and the number of hunters shot and the number of hunters  killed.  It was usually accompanied by editorials and letters to the editor about drinking and hunting and about inexperieced hunters coming up from Illinois for their first hunt.  My memory is poor now but it seems to me the whitetail tally always neared one million, the shot and wounded hunter tally around a score, and the dead hunter tally a mere handful, if any at all.  My recollection was that heart attacks killed more hunters than gun shots. Fat, drunken flatlanders wondering the woods in the snow was a recipe for heart attacks.  Still, memory is a funny thing.  I may have some of this wrong.  It was a long time ago.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Imagine the national press, sensitive to folks crossing state lines with guns being there as the migration of FIBS comes north, with their guns, to hunt.

 
I don't think they have the  same issues with someone coming to hunt as they do for other things.
I imagine that is correct.  I was merely stunned at the blanket condemnation of "crossing state lines with a gun" that I was hearing.  No nuance, no context, as if it was unequivocally always universally understood as prohibited.

 
I imagine that is correct.  I was merely stunned at the blanket condemnation of "crossing state lines with a gun" that I was hearing.  No nuance, no context, as if it was unequivocally always universally understood as prohibited.
I didn't feel that was how it was portrayed or without context...but specifically in context of a non-hunting type situation.

 
I haven't been following the Rittenhouse case closely, but are people really outraged by the mere fact that he crossed state lines? My sense is that they're mostly outraged by the fact that he killed two people. To the extent that the state lines thing gets mentioned, it usually goes to intent. It wasn't like he just grabbed his gun and ran into the town square to see what was going on; he packed up his car and drove hours in pursuit of vigilantism. [I was mistaken in how far Rittenhouse lived from Kenosha. See my post below.]

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I haven't been following the Rittenhouse case closely, but are people really outraged by the mere fact that he crossed state lines? My sense is that they're mostly outraged by the fact that he killed two people. To the extent that the state lines thing gets mentioned, it usually goes to intent. It wasn't like he just grabbed his gun and ran into the town square to see what was going on; he packed up his car and drove hours in pursuit of vigilantism.


The *crossing state lines* thing is a red herring, probably caused in large part by irresponsible reporting.  He didn't bring his gun across a state line - he had it stored in Wisconsin and retrieved it earlier the day of the shooting.  Crossing a state line has never been part of the criminal charges in any respect, but the prosecution has tried to frame him as an outsider coming in to the Kenosha community.  He's done that to paint the defendant as a vigilante seeking opportunity, but I doubt the jury is buying it.  That idea has been pretty thoroughly debunked over the past couple weeks and I expect the jurors, being local, are well-familiar with the fact their community is very near the border and that people from northern Illinois consider Kenosha to be part of their community.

 
I haven't been following the Rittenhouse case closely, but are people really outraged by the mere fact that he crossed state lines? My sense is that they're mostly outraged by the fact that he killed two people. To the extent that the state lines thing gets mentioned, it usually goes to intent. It wasn't like he just grabbed his gun and ran into the town square to see what was going on; he packed up his car and drove hours in pursuit of vigilantism.
I suppose that with a particularly poorly operating vehicle it could have taken hours to travel 20 miles.  In my experience the roads down in that area are pretty noncongested.  I would think maybe around 25 minutes, but again, I have not been there for a long time.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The *crossing state lines* thing is a red herring, probably caused in large part by irresponsible reporting.  He didn't bring his gun across a state line - he had it stored in Wisconsin and retrieved it earlier the day of the shooting.  Crossing a state line has never been part of the criminal charges in any respect, but the prosecution has tried to frame him as an outsider coming in to the Kenosha community.  He's done that to paint the defendant as a vigilante seeking opportunity, but I doubt the jury is buying it.  That idea has been pretty thoroughly debunked over the past couple weeks and I expect the jurors, being local, are well-familiar with the fact their community is very near the border and that people from northern Illinois consider Kenosha to be part of their community.
Indeed.  It has only been charged in the court of media opinion.  It has been used in the actual case, but not charged therein.

 
I suppose that with a particularly poorly operating vehicle it could have taken hours to travel 20 miles.  In my experience the roads down in that area are pretty noncongested.  I would think maybe around 25 minutes, but again, I have not been there for a long time.
OK, I stand corrected. Like I said, I haven't been following the story all that closely. For some reason I had it in my head that he had driven from Missouri. I agree that 20 miles is a much different thing than what I was envisioning.

In that case, I agree with @CletiusMaximus that the out-of-state thing is probably more about pushing the narrative that he was an outside agitator than it is any principled stand on interstate travel and guns. 

 
1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:
I'm sure it's been said sometime over the years, but where in WI did you grow up?

I am honestly not 100% sure the point of the OP, but it did get my wheels turning as usual about what changed and when.    Also a question that came to mind is that while you had that experience in WI (and the tone that I picked up on was it was rural WI) - did the kids in Madison and Milwaukee have a similar experience, or was it already changing? 

I also grew up in WI, but have never held a gun, and besides service weapons and my Dad's bb gun he used to shoot at animals that annoyed him in our yard, I don't think I've even been in close proximity to one.   As far as changes, I assume it's a mix of:  SM, Columbine, media, there are more of us and packed closer together, decreased sense of community, etc, etc..  that all come into play and make it hard for people to separate out causes.     

Sorry in advance if I completely misread your post.... 
Expand  
I grew up in rural Waukesha County, in Chenequa to be precise.  I split time between there and my Grandfather's farm outside of Beloit, in quite a rural setting.  I have no way of knowing absolutely the experience of more suburban or urban kids but i accept that their experience was very different.  Still, I was a bit amazed at the charging by the Kenosha D.A., particularly in light of the fact that Gov. Walker, in 2017, signed legislation affirming the long standing practice.  News of that signing reached  my ears a thousand miles away.  I thought it would have reached Kenosha.
i dont know when you grew up there obviously but i know chenequa and if it is considered rural at all that is only because the people are so rich that they have huge lots many of them on north pine or beaver lakes honesty i cant think of a time in my life that i ever considered chenequa rural versus just thinking of it as exceptionally rich but hey your experience may be a lot different than mine take that to the bank brohan 

 
i dont know when you grew up there obviously but i know chenequa and if it is considered rural at all that is only because the people are so rich that they have huge lots many of them on north pine or beaver lakes honesty i cant think of a time in my life that i ever considered chenequa rural versus just thinking of it as exceptionally rich but hey your experience may be a lot different than mine take that to the bank brohan 
Even at the time I was growing up there was substantial wealth on Pine Lake, Beaver on about half the lake, and North Lake, a bit less.  Eventiually my family did buy onto Beaver Lake.  That three season home was replaced with a Mansion 40 or more years ago when we sold it.  I understand that home has been torn down and replaced again with something more ostentatious.

Also there are a few properties not on those lakes, or there were back then.  For all I know now they have been brought up and turned into open space to secure the tranquility of the Fortune 500 folks haunting the area now.

Also, technically we did not reside in Chenequa, Merton, or Heartland.  We were unincorporated Waukesha county on mailing  Rural Route 1 though our address and Chenequa would also get the mail there.

We shat in an outhouse, had a 5 digit phone number on a partyline, had no hot water unless we heated it on the stove and could legally hunt right out of our backdoor.  It was rural. Later we had property on Beaver Lake and in Elm Grove.  That house in Elm Grove has been razed I understand.  It was a nice place too.

I did see a home, a smallish home which years ago was the home of a friend for sale recently on Beaver Lake.  For that smallish home, just over 2600 sq ft. with a boathouse of maybe 1000 sq ft they were asking 5.1 million.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Damn, looked on google earth.  Not only has our three season cottage on the lake been razed, but so too the home which replaced it.  Real nice looking place there now.  If the above linked home goes for 5.1 million I would guess this place on one of our old properties might go for nearly double that.

Interesting, that first home stood for over 100 years, the replacement for maybe 30 years.  I wonder how long this new one will stand.  Not much change to the boathouse.  Use to be Wisconsin law that one could no longer build boathouses out into the water but existing foundations could be maintained.  That use to m,ean that the boathouse would never expand nor be razed as it is a unique amenity all are likely to maintain.

 
  • Thanks
Reactions: SWC
Damn, looked on google earth.  Not only has our three season cottage on the lake been razed, but so too the home which replaced it.  Real nice looking place there now.  If the above linked home goes for 5.1 million I would guess this place on one of our old properties might go for nearly double that.

Interesting, that first home stood for over 100 years, the replacement for maybe 30 years.  I wonder how long this new one will stand.  Not much change to the boathouse.  Use to be Wisconsin law that one could no longer build boathouses out into the water but existing foundations could be maintained.  That use to m,ean that the boathouse would never expand nor be razed as it is a unique amenity all are likely to maintain.
You’re missed around here gb

Wish you would drop in more often 

 
I am guessing that when I was young the laws were written in a masculine vernacular.  They would have applied also to women, but would not have been written that way.  I imagine now that has changed.  I can say that in my Hunter's Safety course there were no females.  They were down the hall in home economics classes.  Times have changed.


No females in our class either.  While our school was progressive and the dudes sewed and home ec'd and the ladies sawed and drilled together, we split up for one quarter.  During that quarter our junior high football coach would take on his only teaching duty of the year and teach us Sex Ed and Hunter safety.

On a related note, was recently asked for my hunter safety proof on an online hunting license application and just typed in junior high transcript.  They accepted that.

 
All the snow has turned to water
Christmas days have come and gone
Broken toys and faded colors
Are all that's left to linger on

I hate graveyards and old pawn shops
For they almost always bring me tears
I can't forgive the way they robbed me
Of my childhood souvenirs

Memories, they can't be boughten
They can't be won at carnivals for free
Well it took me years to get those souvenirs
And I don't know how they slipped away from me

Broken hearts and dirty windows
Make life difficult to see
That's why last night and this morning
Both look the same to me

I hate reading old love letters
For they always bring me tears
I can't forget the way they robbed me
Of my sweetheart's souvenirs

Memories they can't be boughten
They can't be won at carnivals for free
Well it took me years to get those souvenirs
And I don't know how they slipped away from me

- John Prine 

Who runs down the Dancing Grannies?  What next, shooting up Ol` Okauchee Days?  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You've been ill-advised as to this part my friend.  There's no law prohibiting anyone from bringing a gun across a state border into Wisconsin, the the possession laws regarding minors still allow young men and women to own and operate rifles (handguns and short-barreled rifles are verboten.)  

Hope all is well. Your input is appreciated as always.
Despite the law school he attended? ;)  

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top