To all the "experts" who doubted Vince Young (4 Viewers)

[Slinger]

I thought Young had a really good game and was moving the ball with fluency, but it's worth remembering the Giants were wihout both stud pass-rushing defensive ends and both starting CBs.

I'm still not a fan of his from a FF-perspective and don't want him on any of my teams. As mentioned in the post above, his accuracy just isn't there yet and I'm not willing to wait for it.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Dude, he's a beat writer, you think they have an ounce of logic when their team gets their ### handed to them on a platter.

Some people would rather give reasons as to why someone didn't beat them and instead say it was totally their teams fault.

I am a beat writer, NOT A FAN. Its my job to report on football. YOU are a fan, but hey, I'm sure you're not biased being from Austin and all. I am telling you what I saw, and yes I do like Vince and his FUTURE in the league, but FUTURE is the key word.

So in the meantime, keep yelling "hook em horns" get started on Vince's HOF speech and next week when he throws for 125 yards, 1TD and 3 INTs, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

Hey, whatever you say, Captain Hyperbole.Everyone bow down to the beat writer. BTW, there are boatloads of sportswriters who don't know squat about what they report on...but I'm sure you're not one of them.

Thanks for the unbiased, well informed opinion. Hook em horns!

Having watched 5 solid years of Vince Young at qb, I'd say my opinion is as well-formed as anybody's. Find one single factual inaccuracy in what I've posted here. Please.

You havent actually said anything informative yet.

Actually, I have...and you're adding so much with hyperbolic remarks like...

UT fans need to calm down when someone thinks one of their own isn't "The Greatest Ever"

Where on this thread, or even this board, has anyone said a Texas player was "the greatest ever"? All people are saying here is that "experts" like Hoge, etc, who said he was "2 or 3 years from being a viable NFL qb" are clearly wrong. Original post notwithstanding, that's not just based on one game, either.

 

[RKMoney]

Dude, he's a beat writer, you think they have an ounce of logic when their team gets their ### handed to them on a platter.

Some people would rather give reasons as to why someone didn't beat them and instead say it was totally their teams fault.

I am a beat writer, NOT A GIANTS FAN. Its my job to report on football. YOU are a fan, but hey, I'm sure you're not biased being from Austin and all. I am telling you what I saw, and yes I do like Vince and his FUTURE in the league, but FUTURE is the key word.

So in the meantime, keep yelling "hook em horns" get started on Vince's HOF speech and next week when he throws for 125 yards, 1TD and 3 INTs, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

UT fans need to calm down when someone thinks one of their own isn't "The Greatest Ever"

Not biased at all, just know a great football player when I see it and don't make excuses why he succeeds. By the way, just moved to Austin, lived in NYC last 10 years champ. Pretty clear you are a beat writer / Giants fan to me.

4-4 record on a terrible team in their rebuilding years and much better QB than Eli Manning who stinks and doesn't have an ounce of leadership on that underperforming as usual team.

 

[RKMoney]

Dude, he's a beat writer, you think they have an ounce of logic when their team gets their ### handed to them on a platter.

Some people would rather give reasons as to why someone didn't beat them and instead say it was totally their teams fault.

I am a beat writer, NOT A GIANTS FAN. Its my job to report on football. YOU are a fan, but hey, I'm sure you're not biased being from Austin and all. I am telling you what I saw, and yes I do like Vince and his FUTURE in the league, but FUTURE is the key word.

So in the meantime, keep yelling "hook em horns" get started on Vince's HOF speech and next week when he throws for 125 yards, 1TD and 3 INTs, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

UT fans need to calm down when someone thinks one of their own isn't "The Greatest Ever"

Where did I say that?

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Well saidFunny how no one here is pumping up Jake Plummer for just winning, in spite of poor stats.

Oh, I must be in the wrong place. I thought this was a Vince Young thread.

 

[RKMoney]

Dude, he's a beat writer, you think they have an ounce of logic when their team gets their ### handed to them on a platter.

Some people would rather give reasons as to why someone didn't beat them and instead say it was totally their teams fault.

I am a beat writer, NOT A FAN. Its my job to report on football. YOU are a fan, but hey, I'm sure you're not biased being from Austin and all. I am telling you what I saw, and yes I do like Vince and his FUTURE in the league, but FUTURE is the key word.

So in the meantime, keep yelling "hook em horns" get started on Vince's HOF speech and next week when he throws for 125 yards, 1TD and 3 INTs, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

Hey, whatever you say, Captain Hyperbole.Everyone bow down to the beat writer. BTW, there are boatloads of sportswriters who don't know squat about what they report on...but I'm sure you're not one of them.

Beat writers tend to know very little while thinking they know a lot IMO and this thread isn't changing my mind on them at this point...

 

[guderian]

UT fans need to calm down when someone thinks one of their own isn't "The Greatest Ever"

You must have missed the history here. In the offseason Young was blasted on this board as a sure-fire bust. The littany of reasons included everything from his throwing motion to UT's spread offense to his botched Wonderlic test and his selection of an agent. Your argument that UT fans want everyone to think that he's the "Greatest Ever" is a strawman. We were flat out told that he couldn't learn to run an NFL offense, probably couldn't even read the playbook and sure couldn't play in the NFL. Even if he could do all of that, we were informed, he wouldn't be able to throw over NFL lineman because of his throwing motion. BTW, "everyone in the NFL is fast, so he won't be able to run in the NFL like he did against USC..."Well so far he's proven that he can play in the NFL and has the potential to be a pretty good QB. We saw him improve tremendously at UT as he improved from a weak passer to the highest rated passer in CFB.

So the fact that you are laying the credit for his comeback and performance solely at the feet of the Giants just comes across as yet another excuse/dismissal of Young's potential.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

UT fans need to calm down when someone thinks one of their own isn't "The Greatest Ever"

You must have missed the history here. In the offseason Young was blasted on this board as a sure-fire bust. The littany of reasons included everything from his throwing motion to UT's spread offense to his botched Wonderlic test and his selection of an agent. Your argument that UT fans want everyone to think that he's the "Greatest Ever" is a strawman. We were flat out told that he couldn't learn to run an NFL offense, probably couldn't even read the playbook and sure couldn't play in the NFL. Even if he could do all of that, we were informed, he wouldn't be able to throw over NFL lineman because of his throwing motion. BTW, "everyone in the NFL is fast, so he won't be able to run in the NFL like he did against USC..."Well so far he's proven that he can play in the NFL and has the potential to be a pretty good QB. We saw him improve tremendously at UT as he improved from a weak passer to the highest rated passer in CFB.

So the fact that you are laying the credit for his comeback and performance solely at the feet of the Giants just comes across as yet another excuse/dismissal of Young's potential.

Post of the thread.

 

[Bevo]

Kidd Latimer,

Would you provide a link to some of your NFL articles as a beat writer? I would like to see what you have to say on some other subjects.

Thnx

 

[KiddLattimer]

Dude, he's a beat writer, you think they have an ounce of logic when their team gets their ### handed to them on a platter.

Some people would rather give reasons as to why someone didn't beat them and instead say it was totally their teams fault.

I am a beat writer, NOT A FAN. Its my job to report on football. YOU are a fan, but hey, I'm sure you're not biased being from Austin and all. I am telling you what I saw, and yes I do like Vince and his FUTURE in the league, but FUTURE is the key word.

So in the meantime, keep yelling "hook em horns" get started on Vince's HOF speech and next week when he throws for 125 yards, 1TD and 3 INTs, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

Hey, whatever you say, Captain Hyperbole.Everyone bow down to the beat writer. BTW, there are boatloads of sportswriters who don't know squat about what they report on...but I'm sure you're not one of them.

Beat writers tend to know very little while thinking they know a lot IMO and this thread isn't changing my mind on them at this point...

I'm sure you know a lot of beat writers, and your opinion is well founded. I don't doubt that this thread isn't changing your mind... its a thread on a fantasy football site. If you want to change your mind, go find some footage of the game, take a look at the Giants miscues on defense and look at it as in impartial viewer.

I have no vested interest in Young winning or losing... in fact I would prefer that he played outstanding so I have a great story to write, but what I saw was an average quarterback.

I'm not implying that I know any more than any other fan by being a writer, what I am saying is that I'm not a Giants fan and I have no interest in whether they win or lose, and I am therefore a more unbiased opinion.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I'm sure you know a lot of beat writers, and your opinion is well founded.

You don't have to know a writer to ascertain their knowledge of a topic. All you have to do is read what they write. It's really not that hard.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Did you actually watch the game or are you basing it on a summary and a box score?

The Giants made 2 or 3 BONEHEAD plays on 4th down that would have ended drives, on plays where Young looked average at best. (Kiwi's inability to wrap up for fear of a flag and Frank Walker's late hit out of bounds)

Had the Giants not made those plays the drive would have ended for Tenn and his stats would have ended around 175yds passing and 50 rushing (roughly).

So the short answer is... Yes, Young made some nice plays when given a second chance, but his initial effort was average. Most quarterbacks in the NFL will succeed (or at least make a better play than the 1st) if given a second chance, and Young is no different.

So to answer your question about him "single handedly" winning the game... he had a lot of help from big blue's mistakes. I do think he will be a very good player someday, but lets not blow this win out of proportion and start carving his bust for Canton just yet.

Fantsy football is killing the sport.

Vince Young is a winner. Anyone watch the Rose Bowl last year? Need I say anymore about this guy's leadership and all apround skills?

Vince Young is going to be a special player.

No doubt and this thread will prove it.

Again, let me ask you... DID YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THE GAME or see highlights and a box score?I could care less about VY's FANTASY value. I am a beat writer for a local newspaper and I cover the Giants. What I saw from Young was a better than average quarterback, for a rookie. He made some big plans when given a second chance but looked very average the rest of the time.

There is no discrediting Young for making the plays when he did, but the first time he had a chance to make them ... he did nothing to indicate "Super-Stardom" is ahead. If a WR gets open by 15 yards but he is open the cornerback fell down... does that make the WR a star in the making?

Think about it another way, if the average scratch golfer was given a second chance on every shot, he would be the next Tiger Woods.

I agee FF is killing the sport. One of the more astute observations on the boards in a long while.As far as Young, he is winning football games DESPITE his current and temporary deficiencies in the NFL. He is only going to get better in time.

I (blanking) hate the Longhorns with a passion...HATE THEM...but even I will admit Young is good...really good. No, we do not need to bronze a bust for Canton just yet but you have to admit he looks much better than anyone could have expected.

Even I thought...hoped... he would struggle...struggle to a point that you could finally laugh at him like some circus freakshow on Sundays...but it is not anywhere near that bad. Last time I checked the Titans have several retreads and developmental players at skill positions. Regardless of his completion percentage Young is currently working a small miracle with guys like B. Wade, Scaife, B. Jones and D. Bennett. That is not exactly Joiner, Winslow, Jefferson and Chandler.

And as far as watching the game goes I have known and seen Young play since high school. I even managed a few field level visits to those annual games up in Dallas. Young wins games. Period. Most recently, he tagged the Giants for 24 in the second half.

Causality is much like statisitics. Depending on who is looking at the cause or numbers they can see or attempt create whatever they want. If/then...completion percentages...whatever. Roll it around anyway you want but Young has made the Titans much more competitive on Sundays and he is winning games.

Oh, OU still got to the title game and M. Brown could have never pulled off what Stoops did this year. C'mon, I can't say that many nice things about a Longhorn without some sort of jab.

We can always count on WhoDat to kick the k-nowledge.I agree completely with 2 important points here:

1) VY has flaws, but they will get better in time. What are we seeing right now is his floor. Keep that in mind when you're watching him - he's in his "learning on the job" phase.

2) VY just raises the level of play of his entire team.

Oh and, FF is not killing football. football is alive and well. FF may cause some to see the game in its atomic pieces instead of the fascinating whole and substitute watching stats for watching football (which is sad), but it is not hurting the NFL one bit.

 

[Trey]

While I do think Vince Young is going to be a pretty damn good QB some day, I can't help but have flashbacks here.

I remember a mobile QB who "just won games" for his team... I think that team was the Atlanta Falcons and I think his name was Mike Vick. No one is singing his praises anymore. Hell, I remember when he came back after injury and the term "MVP" was being thrown around for the "impact" he had on his team's play. "Just winning games" can only take you so far. When opposing D coordinators figure you out, you better have some skills to rely on.

"Being a winner" = Weak Argument.

 

[rhawkins68]

Fantsy football is killing the sport.

Best posting I've seen on this board in years.

 

[RKMoney]

UT fans need to calm down when someone thinks one of their own isn't "The Greatest Ever"

You must have missed the history here. In the offseason Young was blasted on this board as a sure-fire bust. The littany of reasons included everything from his throwing motion to UT's spread offense to his botched Wonderlic test and his selection of an agent. Your argument that UT fans want everyone to think that he's the "Greatest Ever" is a strawman. We were flat out told that he couldn't learn to run an NFL offense, probably couldn't even read the playbook and sure couldn't play in the NFL. Even if he could do all of that, we were informed, he wouldn't be able to throw over NFL lineman because of his throwing motion. BTW, "everyone in the NFL is fast, so he won't be able to run in the NFL like he did against USC..."Well so far he's proven that he can play in the NFL and has the potential to be a pretty good QB. We saw him improve tremendously at UT as he improved from a weak passer to the highest rated passer in CFB.

So the fact that you are laying the credit for his comeback and performance solely at the feet of the Giants just comes across as yet another excuse/dismissal of Young's potential.

Post of the thread.

 

[RKMoney]

Kidd Latimer,Would you provide a link to some of your NFL articles as a beat writer? I would like to see what you have to say on some other subjects.Thnx

 

[RKMoney]

Dude, he's a beat writer, you think they have an ounce of logic when their team gets their ### handed to them on a platter.

Some people would rather give reasons as to why someone didn't beat them and instead say it was totally their teams fault.

I am a beat writer, NOT A FAN. Its my job to report on football. YOU are a fan, but hey, I'm sure you're not biased being from Austin and all. I am telling you what I saw, and yes I do like Vince and his FUTURE in the league, but FUTURE is the key word.

So in the meantime, keep yelling "hook em horns" get started on Vince's HOF speech and next week when he throws for 125 yards, 1TD and 3 INTs, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

Hey, whatever you say, Captain Hyperbole.Everyone bow down to the beat writer. BTW, there are boatloads of sportswriters who don't know squat about what they report on...but I'm sure you're not one of them.

Beat writers tend to know very little while thinking they know a lot IMO and this thread isn't changing my mind on them at this point...

I'm sure you know a lot of beat writers, and your opinion is well founded. I don't doubt that this thread isn't changing your mind... its a thread on a fantasy football site. If you want to change your mind, go find some footage of the game, take a look at the Giants miscues on defense and look at it as in impartial viewer.

I have no vested interest in Young winning or losing... in fact I would prefer that he played outstanding so I have a great story to write, but what I saw was an average quarterback.

I'm not implying that I know any more than any other fan by being a writer, what I am saying is that I'm not a Giants fan and I have no interest in whether they win or lose, and I am therefore a more unbiased opinion.

When you say you are a "beat writer" does that mean you have a makeshift blog and consider yourself a beat writer now or are you legit? Please provide a link on some of your stuff or I'll assume your blowing smoke like you are doing quite poorly with VY to date.

 

[Bevo]

While I do think Vince Young is going to be a pretty damn good QB some day, I can't help but have flashbacks here.

I remember a mobile QB who "just won games" for his team... I think that team was the Atlanta Falcons and I think his name was Mike Vick. No one is singing his praises anymore. Hell, I remember when he came back after injury and the term "MVP" was being thrown around for the "impact" he had on his team's play. "Just winning games" can only take you so far. When opposing D coordinators figure you out, you better have some skills to rely on.

"Being a winner" = Weak Argument.

If "Being a winner" is the only argument than the case won't be very strong. If it is "a" argument among others that is a different story.One thing that "Being a winner" often does is to keep the player in the starting lineup and with the chance to get better and that is fairly important, especially considering the alternative.

 

[rhawkins68]

Kidd Latimer,Would you provide a link to some of your NFL articles as a beat writer? I would like to see what you have to say on some other subjects.Thnx

Mark me as another one who would like to see another source of NFL information. A link would be appreciated.

 

[KiddLattimer]

Kidd Latimer,Would you provide a link to some of your NFL articles as a beat writer? I would like to see what you have to say on some other subjects.Thnx

Missed that post between the other 37 flaming me for not loving Vince Young Drop me a PM and I will get you more information. I don't want FBG to get mad at me for trying to get a free plug.

 

[Brewzers]

VY has "it", you can't put your finger on it and while his % aren't going to blow anyone away, he flat out wins. What a special QB the Titans have and will get to enjoy for many years to come.

One big part of the "it" is making his teammates believe they will find a way to win. The last QB I can remember who had that strong an effect was Elway, and that's whose rookie comeback record Vince broke this weekend.

I read this in the Austin paper this morning (its a NY Times article). "I've never been around people like this guy. He just looks you in the eye and tells you how it is. He's just a playmaker, thats all, a playmaker". That was Bobby Wade talking about Vince.People who have followed his career through HS & College understand what Wade is saying. People who have only followed Vince on NFL Sunday do not.

 

[RKMoney]

While I do think Vince Young is going to be a pretty damn good QB some day, I can't help but have flashbacks here.

I remember a mobile QB who "just won games" for his team... I think that team was the Atlanta Falcons and I think his name was Mike Vick. No one is singing his praises anymore. Hell, I remember when he came back after injury and the term "MVP" was being thrown around for the "impact" he had on his team's play. "Just winning games" can only take you so far. When opposing D coordinators figure you out, you better have some skills to rely on.

"Being a winner" = Weak Argument.

If "Being a winner" is the only argument than the case won't be very strong. If it is "a" argument among others that is a different story.One thing that "Being a winner" often does is to keep the player in the starting lineup and with the chance to get better and that is fairly important, especially considering the alternative.

Also add that you should NEVER lump Vick with Young, Vick has never won a thing while Young won a college title.

 

[RKMoney]

Kidd Latimer,Would you provide a link to some of your NFL articles as a beat writer? I would like to see what you have to say on some other subjects.Thnx

Missed that post between the other 37 flaming me for not loving Vince Young Drop me a PM and I will get you more information. I don't want FBG to get mad at me for trying to get a free plug.

They won't mind, just post it.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

Well, Vince Young has a 49% completion percentage, 8/8 TD-Int ratio and a 63.9 passer rating. Those are not remarkable statistics (especially since they are on a significant upswing from the NYG game) and as it was said earlier, one game does not make a career. He is a rookie on a team that is not very good and it is just as premature to hail him a success as it is to call him a bust. I guess Vince is going to attract the same kind of posts as Michael Vick, in which he has a good game and his supporters post on the virtues, talents, and overall greatness of Vick, then has a bad game and his detractors come out en masse to say he's the worst QB since Ryan Leaf - it's like there is no middle ground.

There is a lot of football left for Vince Young to play and I will personally withhold judgement for a while on whether or not he is a bust

I'm also surprised to see college history used to support Vince Young as a winner - no way is that a good judge of who is going to be a great NFL player. I don't see Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, or Jason Wright leading any NFL teams into the playoffs.

Ni

 

[Hawk]

Anyone who watched last Sunday saw what many got to see during VY's college days, carried his team on his back and single handily won it for them.

How could any "expert" doubt this guy is still beyond me.

I like VY, and I drafted him to one of my dynasty teams this past spring, but it's pretty silly to call people out after one good game.

I believe that there is a Joe T post in the Lee Evans thread that's proof of that.I will say that Young is fairly clutch. He doesn't choke under the pressure like Eli Manning or Rex Grossman.

But at some point you just have to take into account his stats and they're just absolutely terrible right now. The Titans may be winning games, but it's not because Young is putting together complete games. They're winning games because they manage to keep the games close and make the right plays at the right time.

Right now Young's biggest impact is as a leader IMO, not his play on the field.

If he doesn't get better throwing the ball, defenses are going to play just to stop the run and contain Young to the pocket and the Titans will be in a lot of trouble.

I watched most of the game Sunday and Young's accuracy was terrible for the most part. He must have underthrown severely at least a half dozen balls.

Honestly, in a lot of ways he reminds me of Donovan McNabb when he first entered the league. If he can be 90% of what McNabb became he'll be a success. But McNabb didn't truly become a great QB until his accuracy improved.

I don't know what game you were watching, but his accuracy was far from terrible. You're just making stuff up now. Vince was 24-35 for a 68.5% completion percentage, and two of those incompletions were spikes to stop the clock, so his real completion percentage was almost 73%. Yet somehow your impression of the game is that he was not accurate? Yeah, that's a nice unbiased perspective. In fact Vince was one of the few Titans who played well in the first half but their drives were killed by a dropped pass, two fumbles, and a missed field goal. And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

I'm not going to say Vince is the greatest ever...not yet anyway. But the reality is that Vince is clearly proving that he is still a dangerous runner in the NFL despite all the claims that those skills would never translate to the NFL. He is proving that his ability to lead and impact the winning atittude of his team in a major way will translate also despite the naysayers claims that it wouldn't, and he is showing steady improvement throwing the ball despite an obvious lack of quality receiving targets on his team. That's what the initial post is trying to say. We can't know the final outcome of his career yet, but considering that he's a rookie on bad to mediocre team, his performance to date is pretty good evidence that the haters were full of crap on at least most of their arguments as to why Vince would be an NFL bust.

 

[RKMoney]

still waiting for this 'beat writer' to post links to his stuff. I get a feeling he isn't a writer nor someone who has followed VY at all.

 

[MLBrandow]

I thought VY would be a solid pro in this league from day 1 (edit: to clarify, I mean from when I first saw him in college... not from Day 1 of his career in the NFL) , but I have been very skeptical of his ability to perform this year.

That said, that 4th quarter performance wow'd me, and is proving that he might just be coming along much quicker than many anticipated.

 

[RKMoney]

Well, Vince Young has a 49% completion percentage, 8/8 TD-Int ratio and a 63.9 passer rating. Those are not remarkable statistics (especially since they are on a significant upswing from the NYG game) and as it was said earlier, one game does not make a career. He is a rookie on a team that is not very good and it is just as premature to hail him a success as it is to call him a bust. I guess Vince is going to attract the same kind of posts as Michael Vick, in which he has a good game and his supporters post on the virtues, talents, and overall greatness of Vick, then has a bad game and his detractors come out en masse to say he's the worst QB since Ryan Leaf - it's like there is no middle ground.There is a lot of football left for Vince Young to play and I will personally withhold judgement for a while on whether or not he is a bust I'm also surprised to see college history used to support Vince Young as a winner - no way is that a good judge of who is going to be a great NFL player. I don't see Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, or Jason Wright leading any NFL teams into the playoffs.Ni

Big difference, VY single handily won the biggest college game while beating considered at the time the best team in all of college sports. Please don't lump guys like Weinke or Crouch or Wright, guys who barely sniffed getting drafted in the pros with VY who was a legit 1st rounder.

 

[KiddLattimer]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

 

[RKMoney]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

beat writer my ***!

 

[KiddLattimer]

still waiting for this 'beat writer' to post links to his stuff. I get a feeling he isn't a writer nor someone who has followed VY at all.

Bevo (the guy who asked) sent me a PM and he has the info. I write for a couple of newspapers and I contribute to a few sites that compete with FBG so I am not going to post a free plug. If you want the info, you can PM me but I'm not getting my FBG account booted on a count of you.

 

[KiddLattimer]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

beat writer my ***!

Heres the play...

 

[matuski]

The guy is the 33rd rated passer in the league, even after this game.

There are 32 teams in the league.

This is a single game vs body of work arguement.

He goes up against the Colts this week who held him to perhaps the worst a game an NFL QB has ever had the first time they met.

This is where we can measure improvement.

 

[RKMoney]

The guy is the 33rd rated passer in the league, even after this game.There are 32 teams in the league. This is a single game vs body of work arguement.He goes up against the Colts this week who held him to perhaps the worst a game an NFL QB has ever had the first time they met.This is where we can measure improvement.

Oh, I'm quite postive the haters will find a way to not give him any credit but of course they get killed it will be "see, I told you so" FYI: Last time I looked the NYG weren't a shabby below .500 team when the Titans played them.

 

[RKMoney]

still waiting for this 'beat writer' to post links to his stuff. I get a feeling he isn't a writer nor someone who has followed VY at all.

Bevo (the guy who asked) sent me a PM and he has the info. I write for a couple of newspapers and I contribute to a few sites that compete with FBG so I am not going to post a free plug. If you want the info, you can PM me but I'm not getting my FBG account booted on a count of you.

Then link from the newspaper, anyone can write for a fantasy site if they want. Link the newspapers which do not conflict with a fantasy site like this.

 

[matuski]

The guy is the 33rd rated passer in the league, even after this game.There are 32 teams in the league. This is a single game vs body of work arguement.He goes up against the Colts this week who held him to perhaps the worst a game an NFL QB has ever had the first time they met.This is where we can measure improvement.

Oh, I'm quite postive the haters will find a way to not give him any credit but of course they get killed it will be "see, I told you so" FYI: Last time I looked the NYG weren't a shabby below .500 team when the Titans played them.

Were you responding to my post? I hope not...?

 

[Hawk]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

I didn't say he did, I said he was strong enough to withstand the contact (which would have put many QB's on their back) and fake a throw that caused Kiwi to think he had passed the ball and therefore Kiwi let him go. But you conveniently ignore the rest of it which is that after being let go, Vince was 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage and 25 yards away from the first down marker, and he had the talent (which few other QB's in the NFL have) to run 34 yards upfield while leaving Giants players (in particular #47) grasping at air as he ran past him. Maybe this link will help you understand what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt3XyFWWeo0

 

[RKMoney]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

beat writer my ***!

Heres the play...

Why do you continue to act as if you actually watched the game when clearly you didn't?

 

[KiddLattimer]

The guy is the 33rd rated passer in the league, even after this game.There are 32 teams in the league. This is a single game vs body of work arguement.He goes up against the Colts this week who held him to perhaps the worst a game an NFL QB has ever had the first time they met.This is where we can measure improvement.

Oh, I'm quite postive the haters will find a way to not give him any credit but of course they get killed it will be "see, I told you so" FYI: Last time I looked the NYG weren't a shabby below .500 team when the Titans played them.

I agree, the Indy game isn't a great measuring stick because they will force VY to play different than he would in a more even matchup.The true test will be against Houston in a couple of weeks, with two evenly matched surrounding casts. Of course if VY blows up vs Indy its a step in the right direction.

 

[RKMoney]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

I didn't say he did, I said he was strong enough to withstand the contact (which would have put many QB's on their back) and fake a throw that caused Kiwi to think he had passed the ball and therefore Kiwi let him go. But you conveniently ignore the rest of it which is that after being let go, Vince was 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage and 25 yards away from the first down marker, and he had the talent (which few other QB's in the NFL have) to run 34 yards upfield while leaving Giants players (in particular #47) grasping at air as he ran past him. Maybe this link will help you understand what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt3XyFWWeo0

Guess you'll get the "Giants didn't want to tackle him so the clock would run down" bit or something that will not give credit where it's due...VY.

 

[KiddLattimer]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

beat writer my ***!

Heres the play...

Watch the play, its about half way in. Still no PM by the way.

 

[RKMoney]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

beat writer my ***!

Heres the play...

Still waiting for the newpaper links that do not conflict in any way with this site. Nice try though 'beat writer', next time watch the game before you comment. Just a heads up.

 

[Brewzers]

I thought VY would be a solid pro in this league from day 1 (edit: to clarify, I mean from when I first saw him in college... not from Day 1 of his career in the NFL) , but I have been very skeptical of his ability to perform this year.That said, that 4th quarter performance wow'd me, and is proving that he might just be coming along much quicker than many anticipated.

Thats a good assessment. I actually hoped that VY wouldn't play this year because I feared I would see the same thing I saw during his redshirt freshman season at UT, a guy who looked completly uncomfortable at QB. However, what I (and all the UT homers) saw last Sunday, was the same guy who just exudes confidence, like his final college season. Thats why we are all so excited!

 

[RKMoney]

Links to Youtube.com (which you don't mind providing links I see it) does not mean you watched the game.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

The point is that most qbs would have been down on that play before Kiwi let up.He does it over and over again. His strength in the pocket is outstanding, often allowing him to complete passes or get rid of the ball when the vast majority of qbs would have been sacked.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

still waiting for this 'beat writer' to post links to his stuff. I get a feeling he isn't a writer nor someone who has followed VY at all.

Bevo (the guy who asked) sent me a PM and he has the info. I write for a couple of newspapers and I contribute to a few sites that compete with FBG so I am not going to post a free plug. If you want the info, you can PM me but I'm not getting my FBG account booted on a count of you.

You're a writer? Thank God for editors.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

He is proving that his ability to lead and impact the winning atittude of his team in a major way will translate also despite the naysayers claims that it wouldn't

Indeed. In spite of Young's tremendous physical gifts, his greatest and most often underrated or overlooked asset, imho, is his role as a leader and motivator of those around him, on and off the field.

 

[WhoDat]

While I do think Vince Young is going to be a pretty damn good QB some day, I can't help but have flashbacks here.

I remember a mobile QB who "just won games" for his team... I think that team was the Atlanta Falcons and I think his name was Mike Vick. No one is singing his praises anymore. Hell, I remember when he came back after injury and the term "MVP" was being thrown around for the "impact" he had on his team's play. "Just winning games" can only take you so far. When opposing D coordinators figure you out, you better have some skills to rely on.

"Being a winner" = Weak Argument.

If "Being a winner" is the only argument than the case won't be very strong. If it is "a" argument among others that is a different story.One thing that "Being a winner" often does is to keep the player in the starting lineup and with the chance to get better and that is fairly important, especially considering the alternative.

Being a winner...Human intangiblesWhat that says to me is that no matter the circumstance, situation, down and distance guys will play hard for a player. In this instance we are talking about Young. He has field presence. He can handle pressure. He can manage a huddle. He can get other players...men...to respond and or trust him when it matters most. I have never seen Young get rattled. Ever. Players gravitate and respond to that in another player.

The guy has horrific mechanics. It has been marked that he is going to need a significant amount of extra time to learn the playbook both in the classroom and through repetition. With full knowledge of each, he has been thrust into the starting line-up on a team with below average NFL talent at all skill positions that was expected to finish with 2-6 wins, while looking badly each and every week. (T. Henry has had a nice season but nobody will confuse him with L. Tomlinson anytime soon.)

However, the team is winning games. Despite the mechanics, mental learning obstacle(s) and lack of Sunday talent...somehow...the Titans are competitive. Guys have, do and will continue to play hard with Young under center.

I have picked Young apart for years and could continue to do so but I have finally realized that despite all of the physical and alleged mental limitations Young just finds a way to win. He has a will to win and can get those around him to play that much better. Human intangible..."It." "It" matters.

I do not expect Young's name to be beside Marino, Elway and Favre in the NFL Passing record books. He's not that player. Most of us...all of us here in the offseason...eventually agreed upon that. However, I do expect Young to win many, many, many games. He might look ugly doing it but the Titans will win. That is where people start taking up sides.

As far as FF killing football goes, let's just say FF has begun to cloud the ability of some people to make an assessment of someone's skill level of ability. You can be a great NFL player and be of little use to someone's FF roster. Conversely, you can be great on a stat sheet and absolutely kill and NFL team.

 

[Hawk]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

beat writer my ***!

Heres the play...

I watched it, in fact my link shows it several times and in slow motion. Are you gonna respond to my points?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt3XyFWWeo0

 

[Brewzers]

And you can harp on Kiwi for letting Vince go on that 4th down play, but you can't pretend that there are more than a select handful of QB's in the league that would have been strong enough to not go down on the initial contact and to fake the throw to get the defender to let go, and then still have the ability to scramble from WAY behind the line of scrimmage to turn it into a 19 yard gain for a 1st down while leaving Giants players grasping at air as he juked past them. But of course, it was all Kiwi and no Vince on that play right?

That play, Kiwi had him wrapped up and then stopped running, stood up and pulled his arms back to avoid getting a personal foul. It wasn't by any means Vince muscling his way out.

beat writer my ***!

Heres the play...

How can you watch that video or actually watch the game and call Vince Young average is beyond me.