TO makes a fuss prior to camp, Ward is going to (1 Viewer)

[Family Matters]

Soon as I saw this thread I knew it was JAA. You gotta be kidding me? I think JAA has lost his objectivity to his homerism.

Feel free to take a look at my posts regarding TO prior to him being an Eagle.

How can you be so wrong about a person and his character? You are truley on an island with your defense of TO. You've even said he's handling it wrong and yet you still defend him. To defend somone who is willing to take anyone down, say anything against his QB's (Garcia and McNabb) to get his buck is defensless IMO. So go ahead, make all the "he's got a right to renegotiate" all you want. I won't disagree with that premise. But I could never defend his actions. He has no character and for that I could care less what happens to his precious "I gotta feed my family" BS he's throwing around.But hey that's just the way I feel.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

The way I would have liked to see Ward and his agent handle this would have been to come out and say that it ways heavily on Ward's mind to be in the final year of his contract. They should have said that given the relationship they are surprised that the Steelers are not stepping up now to secure his services for the future. He should have said that he is looking forward to making his farewell tour with them the best ever as, if they won't secure him now to ease his mind, he will be of no heart to negotiate with them in the future. He should get to camp, comment no further on the matter as he does not want to be a distraction, and he should play for the future.Had he done so the ball would be firmly in the Steeler's court with him appearing to be taking the high road and honoring his contract. The fans and media would then start clammoring for his new deal with every catch he makes.As for JAA's initial cast of the bait, I believe that while not all contract disputes are created equal, with some being less heinious than others, they all should be willing to honor their word.

 

[mad sweeney]

1. Ward is perceived to be a great player, leader, and person, and is well liked by both teammates and fans. TO is perceived to be a great player but not a great leader or person... and it seems he is not as well liked by teammates or fans. Ward does not call out teammates, TO does. Ward does not brag about himself in the media, TO does. etc.

So no matter what happens, TO wont get a fair trial with the media and fans because he is "socially handicapped". I find that incredulous.

So does Mike Tyson, in fact he's perpetually perplexed and has offered his unmitigating assistance to TO as he perambulates his Cross to the awaiting location of crucifiction. He has also offered to eat Joe Banner's children without remorse in retribution for the aggrandized affrontery in which he has displayed in refusing to capitulate with the above mentioned negotiatee.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

JAA deftly sidestepped my post - I guess that means you DO now see the differences between the two situations...

I dont understand you point

I did everything but draw you a picture. You're saying there's a double standard, and there isn't - there's a difference in the players' attitudes.

Ward signed a deal years ago and has easily outperformed it. He said last year he wanted a new deal, the Steelers told him they won't renegotiate until the walk year. Ward said fine, played out the year, and now is part of a MUTUALLY agreed upon and MUTUALLY desirable negotiation.

Owens signed a deal last year. He has now decided after one year that despite signing a $50 million contract, that it isn't good enough. He asked for a new deal. Upon being told they have a policy of not renegotiating deals until the player's walk year, Owens responded by requesting to be traded or released. He is trying to force the Eagles into giving him more money, which is NOT a mutually agreed upon or mutually beneficial action. It's all about T.O.

How can you possibly not see and/or understand that there is a HUGE difference between these two cases. You can try to boil it down to black and white in order to mkae your case, but it isn't as simple as saying "both guys want money - why is Ward a hero and TO a ####?" Are you really puzzled by this? Public perception and reaction is based on these shades of gray - it's no mystery. Stop trying to portray Owens as this tortured, persecuted, misunderstood soul. HE, and no one else, has fostered his image in the eyes of the public. Even if the differences I point out here did not exist, Owens would still be viewed, BECAUSE OF HIS OWN WORDS AND DEEDS, as a malcontent and a self-aggrandizing loudmouth, while Ward never has a bad word to say about anyone - he goes out, cracks heads, and handles his business professionally on and off the field. Factor in the points I make above, and surely even you can see why this perceived "double standard" exists....

My problem with your points is you keep saying 50 million dollar contract. It is NOT a 50 million dollar contract. Dont you see that?

Whether it is or not is completely beside the point. You're in here griping that Ward is being lionized while Owens is vilified, and their situations are identical. The point I am making is that their situations are NOT identical...whether Owens' contract is worth $30 million, $40 million, or $50 million is irrelevant.

 

[Tau837]

1. Ward is perceived to be a great player, leader, and person, and is well liked by both teammates and fans.  TO is perceived to be a great player but not a great leader or person... and it seems he is not as well liked by teammates or fans.  Ward does not call out teammates, TO does.  Ward does not brag about himself in the media, TO does.  etc.

So no matter what happens, TO wont get a fair trial with the media and fans because he is "socially handicapped". I find that incredulous.

I find you and your perspective on this incredulous.Personality and interpersonal skills are as important in football and contract negotiations as in all other phases of life. It is an important characteristic for an elite football player, as Owens likes to think of himself. He doesn't have it.

If you want to call that "socially handicapped", fine. He has no one to blame for it but himself, and it has cost him significantly in his time with the Eagles, including in the current situation.

EDIT: By the way, I noticed you ignored the other 3 points I made about your silly comparison of Ward to Owens. And you also ignored all 8 of Jedimaster's, lumping them all into an excuse that Owens doesn't have "social graces."

 

[JAA]

Soon as I saw this thread I knew it was JAA. You gotta be kidding me? I think JAA has lost his objectivity to his homerism.

Feel free to take a look at my posts regarding TO prior to him being an Eagle.

How can you be so wrong about a person and his character? You are truley on an island with your defense of TO. You've even said he's handling it wrong and yet you still defend him. To defend somone who is willing to take anyone down, say anything against his QB's (Garcia and McNabb) to get his buck is defensless IMO. So go ahead, make all the "he's got a right to renegotiate" all you want. I won't disagree with that premise. But I could never defend his actions. He has no character and for that I could care less what happens to his precious "I gotta feed my family" BS he's throwing around.But hey that's just the way I feel.

I find it funny how I get catagorized like this. TO has issues! How many times can I say it? TOs problem is a bad case of oral diarreha. It is unfortunate that his problem creates such antimocity amongst fans, teammates, and the media. I have the perfect "excuse" for TO ... THE DUDE HAS A PROBLEM. You would see this if you took the time to better understand the recipient of your mud slinging. This is the same case when a compulsive gambler cant stop, continues to bet his families last dime. He doesnt know when to stop, just like TO. TO does not have the capacity to learn from his mistakes. TO has chosen to be the person he wants to be and he is living with the consequences. I do not fault him for this problem. Matter of fact, it is his only problem. TO isnt going to change, people hate of him isnt going change either.What did TO do wrong this offseason? Ask for more money and threaten to hold out. BIG ####### DEAL!!

I fault Pittman, Winslow, Leonard Little, Garcia, McNair, Jimmy Smith (unless he has a substance abuse addiction instead of a recreational problem), the list goes on and on and on. Do you see the difference between these people? DUI, DWI, gun charges, wife battery ... all serious issues without any "excuses" like being raised in a socially ######ed environment as a child. Maybe the piece you arent tieing together is that this is the same issue with TO over and over and over again. This is how he is as a person. You can continue to dislike his personality, but as a professional football player business man, I dont think you have any right to slam him and then not slam Ward. I dont care if I am the only person of that opinion.

 

[JAA]

they all should be willing to honor their word.

Doesnt how many years left on their contract, how much they have been paid, the size of the contract, the signing bonus, how much they cry on TV, how often they cant keep their mouth shut, etc bare directly on how often or how long someone should honor their word?

 

[JAA]

JAA deftly sidestepped my post - I guess that means you DO now see the differences between the two situations...

I dont understand you point

I did everything but draw you a picture. You're saying there's a double standard, and there isn't - there's a difference in the players' attitudes.

Ward signed a deal years ago and has easily outperformed it. He said last year he wanted a new deal, the Steelers told him they won't renegotiate until the walk year. Ward said fine, played out the year, and now is part of a MUTUALLY agreed upon and MUTUALLY desirable negotiation.

Owens signed a deal last year. He has now decided after one year that despite signing a $50 million contract, that it isn't good enough. He asked for a new deal. Upon being told they have a policy of not renegotiating deals until the player's walk year, Owens responded by requesting to be traded or released. He is trying to force the Eagles into giving him more money, which is NOT a mutually agreed upon or mutually beneficial action. It's all about T.O.

How can you possibly not see and/or understand that there is a HUGE difference between these two cases. You can try to boil it down to black and white in order to mkae your case, but it isn't as simple as saying "both guys want money - why is Ward a hero and TO a ####?" Are you really puzzled by this? Public perception and reaction is based on these shades of gray - it's no mystery. Stop trying to portray Owens as this tortured, persecuted, misunderstood soul. HE, and no one else, has fostered his image in the eyes of the public. Even if the differences I point out here did not exist, Owens would still be viewed, BECAUSE OF HIS OWN WORDS AND DEEDS, as a malcontent and a self-aggrandizing loudmouth, while Ward never has a bad word to say about anyone - he goes out, cracks heads, and handles his business professionally on and off the field. Factor in the points I make above, and surely even you can see why this perceived "double standard" exists....

My problem with your points is you keep saying 50 million dollar contract. It is NOT a 50 million dollar contract. Dont you see that?

Whether it is or not is completely beside the point. You're in here griping that Ward is being lionized while Owens is vilified, and their situations are identical. The point I am making is that their situations are NOT identical...whether Owens' contract is worth $30 million, $40 million, or $50 million is irrelevant.

What is identical is the both of them "threating" to hold out of camp while both of them are still under contract. Night and Day to me ...

 

[JAA]

Personality and interpersonal skills are as important in football and contract negotiations as in all other phases of life. It is an important characteristic for an elite football player, as Owens likes to think of himself. He doesn't have it.

This paragraph is laughable.

 

[JAA]

If you want to call that "socially handicapped", fine. He has no one to blame for it but himself, and it has cost him significantly in his time with the Eagles, including in the current situation.

No, I dont think it is TOs fault he acts like he does. I think it gets explained well in his book. It has cost him significantly. I think that is unfair.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

JAA deftly sidestepped my post - I guess that means you DO now see the differences between the two situations...

I dont understand you point

I did everything but draw you a picture. You're saying there's a double standard, and there isn't - there's a difference in the players' attitudes.

Ward signed a deal years ago and has easily outperformed it. He said last year he wanted a new deal, the Steelers told him they won't renegotiate until the walk year. Ward said fine, played out the year, and now is part of a MUTUALLY agreed upon and MUTUALLY desirable negotiation.

Owens signed a deal last year. He has now decided after one year that despite signing a $50 million contract, that it isn't good enough. He asked for a new deal. Upon being told they have a policy of not renegotiating deals until the player's walk year, Owens responded by requesting to be traded or released. He is trying to force the Eagles into giving him more money, which is NOT a mutually agreed upon or mutually beneficial action. It's all about T.O.

How can you possibly not see and/or understand that there is a HUGE difference between these two cases. You can try to boil it down to black and white in order to mkae your case, but it isn't as simple as saying "both guys want money - why is Ward a hero and TO a ####?" Are you really puzzled by this? Public perception and reaction is based on these shades of gray - it's no mystery. Stop trying to portray Owens as this tortured, persecuted, misunderstood soul. HE, and no one else, has fostered his image in the eyes of the public. Even if the differences I point out here did not exist, Owens would still be viewed, BECAUSE OF HIS OWN WORDS AND DEEDS, as a malcontent and a self-aggrandizing loudmouth, while Ward never has a bad word to say about anyone - he goes out, cracks heads, and handles his business professionally on and off the field. Factor in the points I make above, and surely even you can see why this perceived "double standard" exists....

My problem with your points is you keep saying 50 million dollar contract. It is NOT a 50 million dollar contract. Dont you see that?

Whether it is or not is completely beside the point. You're in here griping that Ward is being lionized while Owens is vilified, and their situations are identical. The point I am making is that their situations are NOT identical...whether Owens' contract is worth $30 million, $40 million, or $50 million is irrelevant.

What is identical is the both of them "threating" to hold out of camp while both of them are still under contract. Night and Day to me ...

The situations ARE night and day - you're right about that. Your initial post was questioning why perception of the two situations is different. The answer is that the situations are different. It's not another case of Owens persecution as you were trying to claim.

 

[TheLaw]

IIRC the NFL treats "holdouts" differently depending on whether you are in the final year of your deal or have multiple years remaining. Ward is essentially asking for an extension, where Owens is asking for a new contract.

 

[Tau837]

If you want to call that "socially handicapped", fine.  He has no one to blame for it but himself, and it has cost him significantly in his time with the Eagles, including in the current situation.

No, I dont think it is TOs fault he acts like he does. I think it gets explained well in his book. It has cost him significantly. I think that is unfair.

So whose fault is it?

 

[Tau837]

What did TO do wrong this offseason? Ask for more money and threaten to hold out. BIG ####### DEAL!!

IMO the biggest thing he did wrong was his public criticism/mocking of McNabb. Had he not done that, he would have more goodwill to spend in this ridiculous attempt to get a new contract. He would still be wrong to do that IMO, but he would be in a better position.

 

[vinwinephans]

1. Ward is perceived to be a great player, leader, and person, and is well liked by both teammates and fans.  TO is perceived to be a great player but not a great leader or person... and it seems he is not as well liked by teammates or fans.  Ward does not call out teammates, TO does.  Ward does not brag about himself in the media, TO does.  etc.

So no matter what happens, TO wont get a fair trial with the media and fans because he is "socially handicapped". I find that incredulous.

Does that mean he doesn't have people skills?

 

[Irish]

First of all, I would like to say that I am a huge Eagles fan, and have always been a supporter of Owens, and have given him the benefit of the doubt. Last year he clearly showed that he wanted to go to a team with an extreme talent at QB, get a chance at winning a championship, and get a large contract with a signing bonus reflective of his status as a top 3 receiver. The Philadelphia Eagles granted him all of these wishes. He showed guts in the Superbowl, and showed he was willing to risk his career for a chance to win a superbowl. He also showed that he was worth the contract that they gave him.

Now let's take a look at his recent behavior. He first said he was unhappy with his contract, despite signing it less than one year ago. Then, he criticized the heart and soul of his team (McNabb), and made it clear that he was willing to do whatever it takes to get what he wants. He will be a distraction every chance he gets, which is consistent with how he always has always handled himself. TO has shown this offseason that he will never be happy with his situation or his contract.

After reading several of the previous posts, I find myself surprised that anyone is actually trying to defend TO's actions, or comparing them to such a different situation. JAA's arguments are rather absurd. As a fellow fan, how are you actually defending someone who is in the exact situation he requested, got to a superbowl, criticized the best leader in football, and clearly cares about no one but himself. It is actually pretty sad that someone can be that clueless about what is really important in the game of football and in life.

Now that I have stated this, I will try to give my perspective on the difference between these contract situations. I think we can all agree that both of these WR are elite, and are complete players on the field. They block and are dominant receivers. Having said that, here are some of the differences:

1. One player is in year 2 of a 7 year contract, the other is going into the last year.

2. One player is already getting paid fair market value, the other is not.

3. One player is not respected by either his QB or other teammates, the other is.

4. One player has publicly criticized teammates to better his financial situation, the other has not.

5. One player is hated by the majority of fans, the other is respected by the majority.

6. One player has said one thing and done the opposite throughout contract negotiations, the other has stayed true to his word and has not received what he was promised.

7. One player is replaceable both on the field and in the locker room (unless some of you forgot that the Eagles got to the championship game 4 times without TO, and won it without him), the other is not.

8. One player has no leverage in negotiations, the other has an abundance.

Honestly, as an Eagle's fan, I think they are one of the few teams that has enough leadership to control TO's ego. They will just be quiet and play football, and not respond to TO's antics. I hope they can salvage the relationship and win it all this year. But I don't think the Eagles would win fewer superbowls if they get rid of TO. Their offense may not score quite as many TDs, or gain as many yards, but they have shown that they can win big games without TO. I think one of the true differences in these situations is that the Steelers would be severely affected if they did not have Ward in the huddle, and the Eagles have already planned around TO's absence.

Lastly, I simply cannot understand how someone can fail to grasp the difference between these situations. People who state that they both want more money, and the discussion ends there, are seriously lacking some critical thinking skills.

I agree with a number of your points. What I think you fail to understand is that TO is not as socially graced as Hines Ward and he will never be. It isnt that he is trying to be a bad person, he just cant figure out how to handle himself. As a fellow Eagles fan, I recommend reading TOs semi-autobiography "Catch This". I think you will be more rounded into the person the media has painted TO to be.I also think you are misguided in that this is all about money. I dont think it is 100% (maybe 75% ). TO wants to be an Eagle, but I think he is afraid of being cut next season. I think TO wants Phi to make his contract more playable instead of so backloaded like it is.

One major point I disagree with is Ward being in the same class of WR as Owens, I dont see it. But I guess that makes me a homer.

If TO thinks he is getting screwed on his current contract, then why would he be afraid of being cut after this season and can negotiate a new deal with a new team?

 

[Chaka]

LOUD NOISES!!!!

 

[16101]

If TO thinks he is getting screwed on his current contract, then why would he be afraid of being cut after this season and can negotiate a new deal with a new team?

Because he'd still "only" be making 3.25 million this season. In TO's world, that's 6-8 million dollars less than he should be making this season. So using his logic, that's one year of his career that he will never get back in which he made 6-8 million dollars less than he should have.

 

[pghrob]

JAA,Both situations are the same in that the players are seeking increased financial security through a witholding of agreed upon services. For contract purists, they both are guilty of default.But that is where the similarities end. Their situations are different. Their personnas on different. I want to explore the personna perspective. I believe previous posts have done a great job in demonstating the differences in their years, salaries, etc. JAA you say yourself that TO is "socially handicapped". You are correct. Elements of TO's behavior and actions have allowed us fans (and the media ) to come to form similar opinions of his CHARACTER.Yes, they both are guilty of not upholding a legal contract. But people are willing to make concessions for Ward when they place his default in the context of his CHARACTER. Ward has been given the benefit of the doubt based on his good CHARACTER.If TO was able to overcome his "social handicap" and conduct himself in a manner that allowed people to form better opinions of his CHARACTER, then we wouldn't be having this debate, because he too would be given the benefit of the doubt.The siutations are different, both from the points of how these payers are defaulting related to years left and years passed from current contracts, and definitely different in terms of public and media perception and what concession we are willing to grant.JAA, TO has earned the criticism, just as Ward has earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

[mad sweeney]

Soon as I saw this thread I knew it was JAA. You gotta be kidding me? I think JAA has lost his objectivity to his homerism.

Feel free to take a look at my posts regarding TO prior to him being an Eagle.

How can you be so wrong about a person and his character? You are truley on an island with your defense of TO. You've even said he's handling it wrong and yet you still defend him. To defend somone who is willing to take anyone down, say anything against his QB's (Garcia and McNabb) to get his buck is defensless IMO. So go ahead, make all the "he's got a right to renegotiate" all you want. I won't disagree with that premise. But I could never defend his actions. He has no character and for that I could care less what happens to his precious "I gotta feed my family" BS he's throwing around.But hey that's just the way I feel.

I find it funny how I get catagorized like this. TO has issues! How many times can I say it? TOs problem is a bad case of oral diarreha. It is unfortunate that his problem creates such antimocity amongst fans, teammates, and the media. I have the perfect "excuse" for TO ... THE DUDE HAS A PROBLEM. You would see this if you took the time to better understand the recipient of your mud slinging. This is the same case when a compulsive gambler cant stop, continues to bet his families last dime. He doesnt know when to stop, just like TO. TO does not have the capacity to learn from his mistakes. TO has chosen to be the person he wants to be and he is living with the consequences. I do not fault him for this problem. Matter of fact, it is his only problem. TO isnt going to change, people hate of him isnt going change either.What did TO do wrong this offseason? Ask for more money and threaten to hold out. BIG ####### DEAL!!

I fault Pittman, Winslow, Leonard Little, Garcia, McNair, Jimmy Smith (unless he has a substance abuse addiction instead of a recreational problem), the list goes on and on and on. Do you see the difference between these people? DUI, DWI, gun charges, wife battery ... all serious issues without any "excuses" like being raised in a socially ######ed environment as a child. Maybe the piece you arent tieing together is that this is the same issue with TO over and over and over again. This is how he is as a person. You can continue to dislike his personality, but as a professional football player business man, I dont think you have any right to slam him and then not slam Ward. I dont care if I am the only person of that opinion.

How can you quote a gambling addiction as making a victim of the person, but serial substance offenders like Little and such are personally to blame for their problems? Gambling, booze, drugs, etc...the mental aspect of these addictions is the exact same. So if the guy with the gambling problem "can't help himself" gets a pass, then so too should the guy who can't help put pick up the bottle. Either they are handicapped by an addiction, and therefore excused by you for their behavior, or they are sefl destructive. This is the most hypocritical and ignorant post you have made yet. You actually think the compulsion to blab out whatever nonsense is on your mind is stronger than the physical and mental addictions of drugs or alcohol?! That people who can't help themselves from talking #### are victims but severe drunks and junkies are at fault for their own behavior? You're completely mad.And BTW, I would bet that several of your examples had traumatic upbringings similar to TO's. He's by no means the only unhappy child in the NFL, in fact many of the substance abusers and violent types most likely have immediate relatives that were also substance/domestic abusers. And here's a flash for you, if you kill someone driving drunk and continue to do it, then you have a substance abuse problem. And for the record, I think Little should be in jail. It's a travesty that he's not.

The main point you seem to choose to ignore between the 2 situations is this: Ward never called out, bagged on, or threw under the bus any of his teammates. You like to conveniently lump that into the "oral diarrhea" category of which he has no control, but that's the reason TO is vilefied and Ward is not. And by acknowledging his OD problem, YOU ARE ACKNOWLEDGING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO, but you are too much of a TO lover to come clean with it.

When Ward starts behaving like a spoiled brat, ratting out his "brothers", then he can go on the ####lists. Until then, he is at best dubious for turning down the huge offer, of which we know very little details. He's under contract and theoretically SHOULD be in camp, but he was promised a deal last year and is holding them to it. You're a big fan of calling out the "unfairness" of the teams to their players, you should be on Ward's side in this. If you think the teams take advantage of players, you should WANT the Steelers to hold up to their word and give the man what they promised. When we find out more about the offer he turned down, perhaps some opinions will change. But until he does something STUPID, he's not going to be thought of as an asswipe like TO.

 

[Tom Servo]

Random thoughts:Methinks JAA doth protest too much... Does Mrs. JAA know that her husband is having an affair with TO? JAA, dude, you need to wrap your head in duct tape before it explodes. Remember, it's a game...

 

[Chaz McNulty]

TO is getting heat because he's only 1 year in of a 7 year deal. It's really stupid for him to be holding out because Philly holds all the cards. They can let him sitout and still make the playoffs with their defense.Ward is in his last year. If he sits out 10 games and comes back for the last 6, then the contract ends. Ward has all the leverage and has been extremely underpaid for the last 3 years. I think it would be stupid for Ward to play without a new contract. The longer it goes, the more likely that Pittsburg will lose Ward with no compensation.As I see it, I think that TO is stupid to be holding out because he has no leverage. I think that it would be stupid for Ward not to hold out because he has all the leverage.

 

[Gargoylez]

The T.O. v Ward contract situation is not a valid comparison.

One is a pro bowl receiver who has played 4 of 5 seasons under his current contract and has far outperformed his compensation.

The other is a pro bowl receiver who has played only 1 of 7 seasons under his current contract which he has not outperformed.  He may have played up to his compensation but it is unfair to say he has outperformed it.  IIRC he was the #2 paid receiver in the league last season.

The fact that Hines is considered to be a good guy and a team player while T.O. is viewed as a whiny POS doesn't help public opinion but it is not the reason behind the support for one validity of the claim for one and lack of support for the other.

1. They both have contracts they agreed to.2. They both want more money.

3. They both feel that they deserve more money.

Pretty similar in my eyes.

Not really but you can spin it any way you like to make it sound that way. 1. They both have contracts they agreed to.

-That is every NFL player. Not a good comparison.

2. They both want more money.

-That is every NFL player. Every player would like more money. Uh Duh.

3. They both feel that they deserve more money.

-Uh... yeah. HELLO. Brillant! That again is every NFL player.

Lets REALLY break it down for you so maybe you can understand it.

Ward. Played out his contract to his final year. To. Played ONE year of his contract.

-That would be a huge difference correct? Of course not if your spinning.

TO said he was happy with his contract last year, and no one told him they would visit his contract this year... not the Eagles, that is for sure. Ward was told they would visit his contract this year, and they havent really.

-Now, is that the same thing too? Ward played out last year, with the notion that the Stillers will extend or offer him a new contract. He is looking for the stillers to make good on their statements.

I find it amazing that people can spin things so in their own mind its the way they want it to be. I can't say I never doen it either, but the situation is completely different... guess people just want to see what they want to see.

 

[JAA]

TO is getting heat because he's only 1 year in of a 7 year deal. It's really stupid for him to be holding out because Philly holds all the cards. They can let him sitout and still make the playoffs with their defense.

Ward is in his last year. If he sits out 10 games and comes back for the last 6, then the contract ends. Ward has all the leverage and has been extremely underpaid for the last 3 years. I think it would be stupid for Ward to play without a new contract. The longer it goes, the more likely that Pittsburg will lose Ward with no compensation.

As I see it, I think that TO is stupid to be holding out because he has no leverage. I think that it would be stupid for Ward not to hold out because he has all the leverage.

Without rehashing the TO part, you are saying it would be ok for Hines to hold out of training camp with 1 year left, but not 1 year into a contract in which it looked like he would be cut after the season?

 

[JAA]

Question:

If we knew for a fact the Eagles would cut TO after this season, would that change anyones mind?

 

[mad sweeney]

Question:

If we knew for a fact the Eagles would cut TO after this season, would that change anyones mind?

If they did then he would have gotten what, $13 million for 2 years (including signing bonuses)? That sounds like top WR money to me.

 

[migarvin]

Nice thread. This fellow JAA seems intent on not only PROVING that TO deserves to have his contract redone (so that his bonus is guaranteed) but also that Ward should be criticized for a holdout even more so than TO.

Lets play a game called fact or fiction

fact:

TO is the 2nd best wide receiver in the NFL

TO is just as good of a run blocker as Hines Ward (seems one guy says Ward is this great blocker and all of a sudden he's hailed as the only receiver that blocks well in the nfl

TO has created his own negative image and deserves the consequences

TO does whatever he wants such as spiking the ball on the dallas star, calling his former qb a faggit, whining his way out of baltimore, and now complaining that Mcnabb blew the superbowl, but now, at age 31, deserves to be paid like the top 2 receiver he is.

Randy Moss does equivalent things off the field but received more than twice the signing bonus.

Hines Ward is underpaid

Hines Ward has been a model citizen

Hines Wards is not currently a top 5 receiver in the nfl, never was and never will be.

fiction:

The media portrayal of TO as a selfish, underachieving, nuiscance being correlated to his performance on the football field and his production for the Eagles

The media supporting Hines Ward's holdout because it is determined to be just

Hines Ward is the most complete receiver in the NFL (that's why Plaxico Burress was routinely covered by the best cornerback on the other team. Samari Roll, Anthony Henry, and Chris Mcalister covered Burress twice a year, and sometimes thrice, because Ward is a greater threat?

Summary:

Ward should obviously be given a big contract. He is one of the most important players on the Steelers. However, he is not this great receiver that should be given top 5 money everyone is clamoring he deserves.

TO did sign a below market deal not commensurate to his abilities but it's his own ####ing fault. He is the games 2nd best receiver behind Moss, who is responsible for revolutionizing the wide-receiver position. It's sad Owens will never be compensated for having such a similar impact.