Tom Brady MVP? (1 Viewer)

[Adam Harstad]

earn his third "player of the week" award so far this young season, and who has already set or tied at least a half dozen NFL records through the first four weeks.

You're joking, right? Could you have seriously named the qb who had the most tds through the first three weeks of a seson before manning broke that huge nfl record? If so, how come you never brought it up when discussing brady? And the player of the week award for week one of the regular season? If that's the new benchmark for qb performance, then I encourage you to tell me who won it in week 1 laast year. Do you even know?

We're talking about who is the MVP through the first quarter of the season. I think the fact that one guy has more touchdowns through four weeks than anyone in history, has the best TD:INT ratio to start the season of anyone in history, has led his offense to more points than any offense in history except for one, and has won player of the week 75% of the time (assuming he nabs it this week) tend to be pretty relevant to that discussion. Do you disagree?

If we're talking about who will wind up taking home the MVP trophy at the end of the year, that's a totally different discussion, and suddenly a week 1 PotW award becomes less relevant. But when week 1 represents literally 25% of the season so far, I'd say it's pretty dang relevant. Just like "Most TD passes in 16 games" is a very relevant figure when discussing the MVP through 16 games, I'd say "most TD passes through 4 games" is an equally relevant figure when discussing the MVP through 4 games.

 

[Run It Up]

Its funny because when Peyton was out with an injury and people were seriously discussing whether he should be the MVP having not even touched the football - yet here we are comparing two of if not the best QBs playing the game the difference between the two being the difference its always been. Peyton completely flush with talent and Brady throwing to what he has this season.

TBH, Peyton's performance has quite clearly been the much more impressive performance - hes playing absolutely out of his mind, which makes sense with this being the best team hes ever played on and possibly the best team to have ever played together period.

But if were talking about value, Brady is quite clearly more valuable.

 

[Donnybrook]

Sure are a lot of Monday morning QBs on sports radio praising Brady and laying the boots to Matt Ryan and Schaub.

Rome kept talking about how Brady is getting it done with a cast of undrafted characters and how Matty Ice couldn't get it done with first rounders like Jones, White and Gonzo. Of course, he failed to mention that New England defense is full of high draft picks and Atlanta doesn't have much of a running game. I am not even a Altanta/Matt Ryan fan and I found with his superficial, one sided analysis infuriating.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The Alex Smith comparison is a fair one, so far. The Chiefs are undefeated because they've played a soft schedule with a great defense. The same is true of the Patriots. If Tom Brady weren't named Tom Brady people wouldn't think what he's "done" this year was anything special.

Sure, he has little help around him on offense (aside from an elite offensive line, which is a BIG deal), but it's not hard to put up 3 points against the Bucs, 13 against the Jets, or 21 against the Bills, which is all they needed to do to win those games. In fact, every team that has played the Bucs, Jets, or Bills this year has met those numbers.

So what we really have here is a win over a mediocre 1-3 Atlanta team as their only real standout win of the year. As has been pointed out, in that game Aqib Talib once again saved them at the end after Brady tried to give it away with an untimely fumbled snap.

Realistically, without even looking at the offense the Pats should be a 3 or 4 win team right now just behind the play of their defense. Taking a 3 or 4 win team to 4 wins is not exactly MVP worthy. As I've said before in this thread, I think if there were a vote right now Brady would finish second for MVP on his own team, behind Talib.

While I agree Talib had an outstanding game and deserves equal praise for his contributions for Sunday night's win, I think you are missing the point comparing Brady to Alex Smith. Alex Smith isn't throwing to 4 rookies + Edelman, at least he has veterans that he can trust to run their routes and make their catches without still trying to adjust at the NFL level. There's no question without the Pats defense they would not be in the position they are now, by the same token if Manning was not throwing to Thomas, Decker, and Welker he likely would not be putting up the numbers everyone is drooling over in this thread.

This would have more merit if the points the Pats were required to score to win those games weren't so easy for every quarterback that has played those same teams to acquire. The Jets aren't exactly loaded with any offensive playmakers, and they don't have anywhere near the O-line the Pats do. So if rookie second round Geno Smith was able to put up 18 points against the Bucs and 27 against the Bills with terrible players around him and no offensive line, why should we be impressed that Brady was able to put up slightly fewer points against those same teams with young players and a great o-line?

Now you are comparing Brady with Geno Smith that is carrying a 68.6 passer rating?

You keep ignoring the weapons Brady has to throw to "to get those points", I think you'd have a very short list of QB's that would be 4-0 playing with the cast that Brady has had to work with in those games. This is the whole point of the thread that people are ignoring. You can hate on Brady all you want, it doesn't diminish what he has accomplished with what little he has had to work with. I'm done arguing with you on this topic since it is going nowhere.

The point is that people are making a bid deal out of the Pats record. That's the only thing going for Brady. To get to that record their offense needed to put up some pretty paultry scores against some pretty weak teams. Your point that there aren't many people that could have done that with the weak weapons that Brady had is exactly what I'm talking about. Geno is the perfect counter point, because he DID it with arguably even worse players around him (when you factor in the O-line) than Brady has.

You act like it's some big deal that Brady put up 4+ points to beat the Bucs and 21+ points to beat the Bills without much help on offense. Geno did the same thing against the same teams, also without much help on offense. It's not some huge accomplishment considering that every team that has played the Bucs/Bills this year has done as much. The same goes for the Jets. Every team that's played against them has scored 11+ points, which is what the Pats needed to beat them. So whoopdie-do, Brady managed to do the same thing that a bunch of much worse QBs did against the same competition, several of which had weapons as bad as Brady's.

 

[Run It Up]

Sure are a lot of Monday morning QBs on sports radio praising Brady and laying the boots to Matt Ryan and Schaub.

Rome kept talking about how Brady is getting it done with a cast of undrafted characters and how Matty Ice couldn't get it done with first rounders like Jones, White and Gonzo. Of course, he failed to mention that New England defense is full of high draft picks and Atlanta doesn't have much of a running game. I am not even a Altanta/Matt Ryan fan and I found with his superficial, one sided analysis infuriating.

The Falcons fans in the game thread last night were absolutely brutal with Ryan, I thought Ryan played well against a tough NE defense. Especially with how one dimensional their offense is right now.

I respect Ryan a lot, I think hes still an elite QB - their team is just in a weird spot right now.

 

[jurb26]

Sure are a lot of Monday morning QBs on sports radio praising Brady and laying the boots to Matt Ryan and Schaub.

Rome kept talking about how Brady is getting it done with a cast of undrafted characters and how Matty Ice couldn't get it done with first rounders like Jones, White and Gonzo. Of course, he failed to mention that New England defense is full of high draft picks and Atlanta doesn't have much of a running game. I am not even a Altanta/Matt Ryan fan and I found with his superficial, one sided analysis infuriating.

The Falcons fans in the game thread last night were absolutely brutal with Ryan, I thought Ryan played well against a tough NE defense. Especially with how one dimensional their offense is right now.I respect Ryan a lot, I think hes still an elite QB - their team is just in a weird spot right now.

Yeah, talking heads will do just that... Talk. While Brady is working with inexperienced no names at skill positions his oline is on of the best in the NFL. Give Brady as much time as he had vs Atl and he will turn Jabba the Hutt into a decent WR. He's had great protection and that's not something Ryan can really say. Far too often do the guys up front get overlooked. They are every bit a part of NE's success as Brady right now. Also, it's worth mentioning that r. White still isn't healthy. Sure, Ryan still has Jones and Gonzo but let's not pretend he was working with a full casts either.

 

[Bills_Fan11]

The Pats have played a weak schedule and this is the first game that the Pats offense really showed up in at all.

Brady is playing well given the "talent" around him, but he's not even the MVP of his own team right now. The Pats are 4-0 because their defense is playing very well, Aqib Talib in particular.

They just beat Atlanta, a SB potential team, in thier house, with a bunch of nobodies. Brady had over 300 yards passing, in general, to rookies. It's time to stop saying the Ptats haven't played anybody.

they have beat buffalo with manuel, the jets, the bucs--and an atlanta team missing three of its best defenders and their star running back (as well as a gimpy roddy white). If you call Atlanta (at this very moment) a barometer of a great team-- I think you are sadly mistaken.

This. Even without the injuries Atlanta had "Regression" written all over them before the season with all of the close games they won last year.

If your best counterpoint to this is "NE has injuries too" then you need to quit since the Pats injuries are already built in to your point that Brady is MVP. Nobody is suggesting that ATL is a better team when both are healthy; even though that's where you're trying to move the goalposts after the ridiculous MVP argument gets shot down.

But ya you're not a homer at all.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

The Pats have played a weak schedule and this is the first game that the Pats offense really showed up in at all.

Brady is playing well given the "talent" around him, but he's not even the MVP of his own team right now. The Pats are 4-0 because their defense is playing very well, Aqib Talib in particular.

They just beat Atlanta, a SB potential team, in thier house, with a bunch of nobodies. Brady had over 300 yards passing, in general, to rookies. It's time to stop saying the Ptats haven't played anybody.

they have beat buffalo with manuel, the jets, the bucs--and an atlanta team missing three of its best defenders and their star running back (as well as a gimpy roddy white). If you call Atlanta (at this very moment) a barometer of a great team-- I think you are sadly mistaken.

This. Even without the injuries Atlanta had "Regression" written all over them before the season with all of the close games they won last year.

If your best counterpoint to this is "NE has injuries too" then you need to quit since the Pats injuries are already built in to your point that Brady is MVP. Nobody is suggesting that ATL is a better team when both are healthy; even though that's where you're trying to move the goalposts after the ridiculous MVP argument gets shot down.

But ya you're not a homer at all.

Strictly from a strength of schedule perspective, you can't knock the Pats and you certainly cannot knock the Falcons when compared to the other 7 teams they faced.

Atlanta (30/1) is the best team out of the 8 faced by Broncos + Pats, Pats faced the Falcons.

Who's the worst? Raiders (1000/1). Who faced the Raiders? Broncos.

Super Bowl odds of opponents from both teams:

Broncos

Ravens 35/1

Giants 100/1

Eagles 125/1

Raiders 1000/1

Average: 315/1

Patriots

Falcons 30/1

Jets 100/1

Bills 200/1

Bucs 400/1

Average: 182/1

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

I'm sure Tom Brady will have fun at the Pro Bowl.

 

[Warrior]

It'll always come down to this for me when discussing Brady's value vs. Peyton's value to his team.

Without Brady, Matt f'n Cassel won 11 games in New England.

Without Peyton, the Colts crumbled instantly into the worst team in the entire league.

Brady can't hold Peyton's jock when it comes to value to their respective teams.

That being said, they're both all-time greats. Peyton is just on another level. And to say that Brady has always had inferior weapons is a joke. For many years, he had a dominant defense, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and then Gronk/AHernandez. Not to mention a great rushing game in the early years, the absolute best head coach and front office of the last decade.

 

[lbouchard]

It'll always come down to this for me when discussing Brady's value vs. Peyton's value to his team.

Without Brady, Matt f'n Cassel won 11 games in New England.

Without Peyton, the Colts crumbled instantly into the worst team in the entire league.

Brady can't hold Peyton's jock when it comes to value to their respective teams.

Patriots 2007: Perfect 16-0 in the regular season. One insanely lucky play away from being the best team of all time. Ended up 18-1. Set a record for points with 589.

Patriots 2008: 11 win season. Missed the playoffs. Scored 410 points.

Tom Brady 2007: 4,806 yards. 8.3 YPA. 50 TD passes, an all time record. Only 8 INTs.

Matt Cassell 2008: 3,693 yards. 7.1 YPA. 21 TDs to 11 INTs.

But you're right, the Patriots hardly skipped a beat.

 

[jurb26]

It'll always come down to this for me when discussing Brady's value vs. Peyton's value to his team.

Without Brady, Matt f'n Cassel won 11 games in New England.

Without Peyton, the Colts crumbled instantly into the worst team in the entire league.

Brady can't hold Peyton's jock when it comes to value to their respective teams.

Patriots 2007: Perfect 16-0 in the regular season. One insanely lucky play away from being the best team of all time. Ended up 18-1. Set a record for points with 589.Patriots 2008: 11 win season. Missed the playoffs. Scored 410 points.

Tom Brady 2007: 4,806 yards. 8.3 YPA. 50 TD passes, an all time record. Only 8 INTs.

Matt Cassell 2008: 3,693 yards. 7.1 YPA. 21 TDs to 11 INTs.

But you're right, the Patriots hardly skipped a beat.

There that and the fact that Manning wasn't the only guy missing from that awful Colts team. All around, that's an poor argument.

 

[Bills_Fan11]

Strictly from a strength of schedule perspective, you can't knock the Pats and you certainly cannot knock the Falcons when compared to the other 7 teams they faced.

I can't knock them if somebody started a thread about the Pats having a tougher SoS. I can knock them in a thread about MVP when SoS is one of the go-to explanations for the massive difference in point differential and performance, which is of course ridiculous.

NE had a total of 1 TD drive longer than 35yds vs the Bill & Jets combined (half their games so far). You can pick any two games you want on Denver's schedule and I'll bet you that never happens this year.

 

[devouredbychaos]

What good is being the MVP when all you do is choke in the playoffs when its cold outside.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It'll always come down to this for me when discussing Brady's value vs. Peyton's value to his team.

Without Brady, Matt f'n Cassel won 11 games in New England.

Without Peyton, the Colts crumbled instantly into the worst team in the entire league.

Brady can't hold Peyton's jock when it comes to value to their respective teams.

Patriots 2007: Perfect 16-0 in the regular season. One insanely lucky play away from being the best team of all time. Ended up 18-1. Set a record for points with 589.

Patriots 2008: 11 win season. Missed the playoffs. Scored 410 points.

Tom Brady 2007: 4,806 yards. 8.3 YPA. 50 TD passes, an all time record. Only 8 INTs.

Matt Cassell 2008: 3,693 yards. 7.1 YPA. 21 TDs to 11 INTs.

But you're right, the Patriots hardly skipped a beat.

You forgot this part..

Patriots 2009: 10 win season. Scored 427 points.

It's also not really fair to compare Brady/Cassel's numbers straight up since Cassel played fewer games, but more importantly was a guy that hadn't started a game at qb SINCE HIGH SCHOOL. The Pats weren't replacing Brady with some veteran backup. They were replacing him with a guy that wasn't even a starting QB in college. They worked him in slowly, and it took him a little bit to figure things out. By the end of it, even a guy that wasn't even a starter in college was rattling off record setting numbers on the Pats.

Cassel's 2nd half of the season that year would have projected out to 5200/32 over a full season. Again, Brady followed it up with 4400/28 the next year and 10 wins.

 

[msudaisy26]

It'll always come down to this for me when discussing Brady's value vs. Peyton's value to his team.

Without Brady, Matt f'n Cassel won 11 games in New England.

Without Peyton, the Colts crumbled instantly into the worst team in the entire league.

Brady can't hold Peyton's jock when it comes to value to their respective teams.

Patriots 2007: Perfect 16-0 in the regular season. One insanely lucky play away from being the best team of all time. Ended up 18-1. Set a record for points with 589.

Patriots 2008: 11 win season. Missed the playoffs. Scored 410 points.

Tom Brady 2007: 4,806 yards. 8.3 YPA. 50 TD passes, an all time record. Only 8 INTs.

Matt Cassell 2008: 3,693 yards. 7.1 YPA. 21 TDs to 11 INTs.

But you're right, the Patriots hardly skipped a beat.

You forgot this part..

Patriots 2009: 10 win season. Scored 427 points.

It's also not really fair to compare Brady/Cassel's numbers straight up since Cassel played fewer games, but more importantly was a guy that hadn't started a game at qb SINCE HIGH SCHOOL. The Pats weren't replacing Brady with some veteran backup. They were replacing him with a guy that wasn't even a starting QB in college. They worked him in slowly, and it took him a little bit to figure things out. By the end of it, even a guy that wasn't even a starter in college was rattling off record setting numbers on the Pats.

Cassel's 2nd half of the season that year would have projected out to 5200/32 over a full season. Again, Brady followed it up with 4400/28 the next year and 10 wins.

Not everyone is Peterson, coming off an ACL injury usually takes time. Brady looked rusty and off most of the year in 2009.

Cassell didn't play less games then Brady that year, he played about 15 minutes less for the season.

Last thing is the comparison is stupid, they aren't the same teams, they aren't playing against the exact same teams, and players have better or worse years.

Fact is we have no idea what Brady would have done in 2008, because he couldn't play.

We have no idea what the Colts would have looked like in 2011, because Peyton couldn't play.

Get over it

 

[The Duff Man]

Brady played like garbage the first two games. Go back and watch all the bad throws.

MVP?? Take off the homer glasses.

Point me to the throws he made that wouldnt have been made by ANY top 10 QB in the league. Plug in any of them, the Pats are still 4-0.

 

[DoubleG]

I'm sure Tom Brady will have fun at the Pro Bowl.

That depends...which section will he be sitting in?

 

[SportsGuru311]

not even close. Peyton will walk away with the MVP trophy.

 

[PatsFanCT]

If Brady and Manning finish with the same regular season record, who would you say is MVP?

 

[msudaisy26]

If Brady and Manning finish with the same regular season record, who would you say is MVP?

It would depend on how close their stats are, at the present time Manning is running away with it

 

[Adam Harstad]

If Brady and Manning finish with the same regular season record, who would you say is MVP?

If each keeps up his current statistical pace? Peyton Manning, and it's not even a discussion. If Manning throws for 5800 yards (at over 9 yards per attempt) and 64 TDs and leads the most explosive offense in history by a huge margin, and Brady throws for 4000 yards (at under 7 yards per attempt) and 28 TDs and helms the league's 20th ranked scoring offense, I don't care if Tom Brady's receivers are James Thrash and Todd Pinkston, Manning would be so far out ahead in that race he'd need binoculars to see second place.

Speaking of Thrash and Pinkston... in 2000, Philly went 11-5 and had the #12 scoring offense, and their leading receivers were Chad Lewis, Charles Johnson, Torrance Small, Cecil Martin, Duce Staley, Stanley Pritchett, Darnell Autry, Brian Mitchell, Luther Broughton, Todd Pinkston, Jeff Thomason, Na Brown, and Donovan McNabb. I'm not making up names, here, that's literally every player with more than one reception for the 2000 Philly Eagles. The only player with more than 350 yards rushing for the Eagles was McNabb himself, and the only guy with over 100 carries was Darnell Autry, who averaged just 3 yards per carry. Marshall Faulk had 2200 yards from scrimmage and set the record for most combined TDs in history that year, but he played for a worse team (10-6 vs. 11-5) and was surrounded by Hall of Famers. So, a question for the Brady supporters: if you had a time machine, would you go back in time, take away Marshall Faulk's league MVP award, and give it to Donovan McNabb, instead? If you're suggesting that we should ignore the guy who is shattering league records on the most explosive the league has ever seen in favor of the other guy with mediocre statistics on a good team simply because the first guy has elite teammates and the second guy has garbage at the skill positions, that seems to be the logical conclusion. Sorry Mr. Faulk, your GSoT Rams were fun to watch, but we're taking away your league MVP and giving it to its rightful owner, Donovan McNabb. It's a serious question- would you give Donovan McNabb the 2000 MVP award over Marshall Faulk?

 

[Run It Up]

Hyperbole: the thread.

 

[drummer]

Hyperbole: the thread.

Yeah, it's getting to the point where some are drawing up arguments in the dirt.

 

[Run It Up]

Should just make the Offensive and Defensive Players of the year more prestigious, have it voted on by the coachs. Then make the MVP what it is intended to be...

 

[moleculo]

Manning is putting on a clinic, enjoying the best start to a season of any QB of all time, but somehow our friends in the North East want to give Brady MVP? I don't get it.

I see Patriot fans continue to live up to their reputation. A leopard can't change his spots, I suppose.

 

[DoubleG]

Should just make the Offensive and Defensive Players of the year more prestigious, have it voted on by the coachs. Then make the MVP what it is intended to be...

The Most Valuable Patriot award?

"Our team is AWESOME!!1!! Brady should win MVP!!!"

"Out team is the SUXOR!!! Brady should win MVP!!"

"I wanna a cookie!!!!""

Patriot homers are even more objective than Packer fans. Keep up the fine work all of you guys with BB and Patriot logos in your avatars. You're doing God's work all up in here. And of course, by "God" I mean BB.

 

[Jewell]

Let's see. One guy is on pace for: 5,800 yards, 64 TDs (I did not make that up)

Manning's MVPness has been on full display this season, and it's quite a sight to behold.

 

[Run It Up]

Should just make the Offensive and Defensive Players of the year more prestigious, have it voted on by the coachs. Then make the MVP what it is intended to be...

The Most Valuable Patriot award?

"Our team is AWESOME!!1!! Brady should win MVP!!!"

"Out team is the SUXOR!!! Brady should win MVP!!"

"I wanna a cookie!!!!""

Patriot homers are even more objective than Packer fans. Keep up the fine work all of you guys with BB and Patriot logos in your avatars. You're doing God's work all up in here. And of course, by "God" I mean BB.

I'm sorry that you hate the Patriots because for the past 1.5 decades theyve been better than whatever team you like. But the idea that Brady has been the MVP through the first four weeks is not even remotely close to how dumb it was saying that Peyton was the MVP all of 2011 - not playing football - for the same exact reason some are saying Brady is the most valuable player on his team, and in comparison to every other team in the NFL currently.

Not sure why you bring objectivity into the discussion and then provide absolutely no opinion on the topic at all :toolbag:

Its even better when people bring Matt Cassel into the discussion as if it was in any way relevant; did everyone forget that the Broncos made the playoffs with Tebow and without Welker or Julius? How do Cassel and Tebow matchup?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

If Gabbert is the QB for the Patriots, are they 4-0 or 3-1?

 

[Run It Up]

If Gabbert is the QB for the Patriots, are they 4-0 or 3-1?

There are two QBs in the league that could have gotten the Pats to 4-0 imo, and they are already being discussed in this thread.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

It sucks, people. But the MVP isn't what we want it to be. The MVP award is a guy on a good team with the coolest stats. That's just how it is. If Brady drags this team (now without Wilfork) to 14-2 even with average stats he absolutely has to be considered.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

If Gabbert is the QB for the Patriots, are they 4-0 or 3-1?

There are two QBs in the league that could have gotten the Pats to 4-0 imo, and they are already being discussed in this thread.

Manuel and Smith?

 

[msudaisy26]

It sucks, people. But the MVP isn't what we want it to be. The MVP award is a guy on a good team with the coolest stats. That's just how it is. If Brady drags this team (now without Wilfork) to 14-2 even with average stats he absolutely has to be considered.

Consideration, sure. Not a chance he should win it if Manning is shattering records.

By the way I love the Pats.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Manning is putting on a clinic, enjoying the best start to a season of any QB of all time, but somehow our friends in the North East want to give Brady MVP? I don't get it.

I see Patriot fans continue to live up to their reputation. A leopard can't change his spots, I suppose.

That's pretty much the size of it.

 

[DoubleG]

Not sure why you bring objectivity into the discussion and then provide absolutely no opinion on the topic at all :toolbag:

You're killing it in here.

Objectivity > opinion. So I guess, thanks for the compliment...and making no sense whatsoever.

Keep up the fine work.

BTW, the entire point in your post about Manning in 2011 is a complete straw man (at least as far as I am concerned).

 

[PitbullTD]

If Brady and Manning finish with the same regular season record, who would you say is MVP?

If each keeps up his current statistical pace? Peyton Manning, and it's not even a discussion. If Manning throws for 5800 yards (at over 9 yards per attempt) and 64 TDs and leads the most explosive offense in history by a huge margin, and Brady throws for 4000 yards (at under 7 yards per attempt) and 28 TDs and helms the league's 20th ranked scoring offense, I don't care if Tom Brady's receivers are James Thrash and Todd Pinkston, Manning would be so far out ahead in that race he'd need binoculars to see second place.

Speaking of Thrash and Pinkston... in 2000, Philly went 11-5 and had the #12 scoring offense, and their leading receivers were Chad Lewis, Charles Johnson, Torrance Small, Cecil Martin, Duce Staley, Stanley Pritchett, Darnell Autry, Brian Mitchell, Luther Broughton, Todd Pinkston, Jeff Thomason, Na Brown, and Donovan McNabb. I'm not making up names, here, that's literally every player with more than one reception for the 2000 Philly Eagles. The only player with more than 350 yards rushing for the Eagles was McNabb himself, and the only guy with over 100 carries was Darnell Autry, who averaged just 3 yards per carry. Marshall Faulk had 2200 yards from scrimmage and set the record for most combined TDs in history that year, but he played for a worse team (10-6 vs. 11-5) and was surrounded by Hall of Famers. So, a question for the Brady supporters: if you had a time machine, would you go back in time, take away Marshall Faulk's league MVP award, and give it to Donovan McNabb, instead? If you're suggesting that we should ignore the guy who is shattering league records on the most explosive the league has ever seen in favor of the other guy with mediocre statistics on a good team simply because the first guy has elite teammates and the second guy has garbage at the skill positions, that seems to be the logical conclusion. Sorry Mr. Faulk, your GSoT Rams were fun to watch, but we're taking away your league MVP and giving it to its rightful owner, Donovan McNabb. It's a serious question- would you give Donovan McNabb the 2000 MVP award over Marshall Faulk?

Good post. I have no dog in this fight, personally I think Manning gets it, but I understand the Brady argument. This^^^ is a great post though

 

[Ghost Rider]

Honestly, Brady wouldn't even be in 2nd place right now; Drew Brees would be. Hell, Brady is still only 28th in YPA (an all-important stat, as Chase often tells us), and you can't just ignore that. If you want to focus on a team stat like wins and losses, then sure, Brady is in the conversation, but in realistic terms, when assessing the play of each player and the value to his team so far this year (which I say cause Brady is obviously super valuable to his team in general, but looking at the four games so far this year, this past week is really the only game where he was a difference maker), he really isn't. I doubt many outside of the New England area think Brady is a legit MVP candidate at this point, which speaks volumes.

 

[Run It Up]

Not sure why you bring objectivity into the discussion and then provide absolutely no opinion on the topic at all :toolbag:

You're killing it in here.

Objectivity > opinion. So I guess, thanks for the compliment...and making no sense whatsoever.

Keep up the fine work.

BTW, the entire point in your post about Manning in 2011 is a complete straw man (at least as far as I am concerned).

You claim pats fans lack objectivity in a thread where there have been several opinions from both sides, AFTER you spend your entire post not even responding to me and instead acting like a casual troll, providing no stance on anything just insulting me and an entire fanbase.

My position was pretty clear, the MVP award is a joke, it either means the best performance in the league or it means the player most valuable to their team. Since its defined as the latter and voted on as the former its my opinion that OPOY and DPOY should be elevated and that the MVP award should be awarded for its intended purpose, to the player who would have the biggest negative impact if he were to miss time.

I honestly don't know how anyone could argue that if Peyton and Brady both went down today, that Osweiller could'nt easily make the playoffs with their cake schedule and best team in the league roster and Mallet might finish 8-8 with a 4 win headstart and 4 rookie starter at skill positions.

Honestly, Brady wouldn't even be in 2nd place right now; Drew Brees would be.

Certainly in the running I agree, losing Brees or Brady would almost certainly kill their seasons, whereas the Broncos might even be able to win the #1 seed with Osweiller.

I also think its fair to say that Rivers has earned his place in this discussion.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

It sucks, people. But the MVP isn't what we want it to be. The MVP award is a guy on a good team with the coolest stats. That's just how it is. If Brady drags this team (now without Wilfork) to 14-2 even with average stats he absolutely has to be considered.

Consideration, sure. Not a chance he should win it if Manning is shattering records.

By the way I love the Pats.

What if Manning stacks up records and goes 11-5? And Brady has an unimpressive year and goes 14-2?

 

[Bills_Fan11]

did everyone forget that the Broncos made the playoffs with Tebow and without Welker or Julius? How do Cassel and Tebow matchup?

Or maybe everyone remembers they won an 8-8 tiebreaker with the Raiders & Chargers and had the worst point differential in playoff history. Thanks to Marion Barber.

 

[Run It Up]

did everyone forget that the Broncos made the playoffs with Tebow and without Welker or Julius? How do Cassel and Tebow matchup?

Or maybe everyone remembers they won an 8-8 tiebreaker with the Raiders & Chargers and had the worst point differential in playoff history. Thanks to Marion Barber.

If were gonna bring up dumb examples, we might as well bring up the most dumb.

 

[msudaisy26]

It sucks, people. But the MVP isn't what we want it to be. The MVP award is a guy on a good team with the coolest stats. That's just how it is. If Brady drags this team (now without Wilfork) to 14-2 even with average stats he absolutely has to be considered.

Consideration, sure. Not a chance he should win it if Manning is shattering records.

By the way I love the Pats.

What if Manning stacks up records and goes 11-5? And Brady has an unimpressive year and goes 14-2?

I would go with Brady then, but Manning will still win it. Everyone loves stats.

 

[pizzatyme]

If the Seahawks have a perfect season and Wilson tosses 28 TDs, is he the MVP?

 

[jurb26]

If the Seahawks have a perfect season and Wilson tosses 28 TDs, is he the MVP?

Depends how many pick 6's Sherman has.

 

[msudaisy26]

If the Seahawks have a perfect season and Wilson tosses 28 TDs, is he the MVP?

Depends on the others in contention

 

[pizzatyme]

If the Seahawks have a perfect season and Wilson tosses 28 TDs, is he the MVP?

Depends on the others in contention

OK, Manning has 51 TD passes and the Broncos finish 12-4 and lose in the Super Bowl?

 

[drummer]

If the Seahawks have a perfect season and Wilson tosses 28 TDs, is he the MVP?

Depends on the others in contention

OK, Manning has 51 TD passes and the Broncos finish 12-4 and lose in the Super Bowl?

If Manning tosses 51 TDs in the regular season, he is MVP IMO whether you guys wants to argue this to death or not.

 

[pizzatyme]

If the Seahawks have a perfect season and Wilson tosses 28 TDs, is he the MVP?

Depends on the others in contention

OK, Manning has 51 TD passes and the Broncos finish 12-4 and lose in the Super Bowl?

If Manning tosses 51 TDs in the regular season, he is MVP IMO whether you guys wants to argue this to death or not.

What if he tosses 45? Or 49?

My point is Wilson would be no more than a game manager, much like Brady has been thus far. Great job, but not MVP worthy.

 

[drummer]

If the Seahawks have a perfect season and Wilson tosses 28 TDs, is he the MVP?

Depends on the others in contention

OK, Manning has 51 TD passes and the Broncos finish 12-4 and lose in the Super Bowl?

If Manning tosses 51 TDs in the regular season, he is MVP IMO whether you guys wants to argue this to death or not.

What if he tosses 45? Or 49?

My point is Wilson would be no more than a game manager, much like Brady has been thus far. Great job, but not MVP worthy.

What the OP did by posting this subject is actually diminishing what Brady is currently doing much to the delight of posters who are geeking hard over this after only four games.