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Tom Brady or Peyton Manning (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cobalt_27
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BlueOnion
Footballguy
Because you use 'was', we can only evaluate them on what they have done to this point? I guess you would have to go with Brady then. But going forward from today, I would go with Peyton.Just curious though, if you can rate quarterbacks based on Superbowls, would it also be fair to rank quarterbacks based on salary? Salary is a direct reflection of how much respect the team has for said player to begin with.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
See, this is my point: We don't even have to look on a go-forward basis. Manning is the better QB right now, even without the SB rings; even with Brady owning two. The emphasis placed on how many SBs a guy wins is so out of whack when it comes to evaluating how good these guys are. Dilfer, Williams, Hostetler...these guys all won SB rings. If consistent, wouldn't the slobbering Brady fans have to say these three were better than the likes of Marino, Tarkenton, Manning, etc? Seems rather absurd to me.
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Insoxicated
I think that Brady's superbowl rings are a product of the system he is in and the players he is surrounded with, just as much as his skill. Put Peyton in Brady's shoes and the Pats would be even better... put Brady in Peytons shoes and the Colts take a step back. Brady in NE > Peyton in IndyHowever... just regarding overall skill/knowledge/etc Manning > Brady ...and I'm a die-hard Pats homer. 
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Good to see a clear-thinking Pats fan, finally.,Dec 22 2004, 03:28 PM] I think that Brady's superbowl rings are a product of the system he is in and the players he is surrounded with, just as much as his skill. Put Peyton in Brady's shoes and the Pats would be even better... put Brady in Peytons shoes and the Colts take a step back. Brady in NE > Peyton in IndyHowever... just regarding overall skill/knowledge/etc Manning > Brady ...and I'm a die-hard Pats homer.
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Insoxicated
There are a few of us out thereGood to see a clear-thinking Pats fan, finally.,Dec 22 2004, 03:28 PM] I think that Brady's superbowl rings are a product of the system he is in and the players he is surrounded with, just as much as his skill. Put Peyton in Brady's shoes and the Pats would be even better... put Brady in Peytons shoes and the Colts take a step back. Brady in NE > Peyton in IndyHowever... just regarding overall skill/knowledge/etc Manning > Brady ...and I'm a die-hard Pats homer.
I would even go so far as to say that Brady might not even be the 2nd or 3rd best QB in the league....
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Here we go again. Just because of Brady's lack of flashiness and a recent bad game, we're going to start bashing him again?This is the most beat to death topics of all times. Brady is the best. He's got super bowl wins, he's got clutch wins, and he runs his offense every bit as effectively as any other quarterback in the league. He does what he is told to do and needs to do to win games. He has accomplished his success with offensive tools that could be considered marginal at best. McNabb needed a marquee wideout to enjoy the success they had this year. Brady uses the tools he's given and does nothing but win football games and championships and will do so again this year.Peyton Manning has been the benefactor of one of the most talented offensive teams I can remember. Shoot, Craig Krenzel could probably put up Manning like numbers in that system. Just kidding but you see my point? Everyone that thinks Manning is a better quarterback is just flat out wrong. 
rhawkins68
Footballguy
Manning is the slightly better QB and I think it will show once the Colts defense improves to a top 10 unit.Manning has a better completion percentage and Y/A which shows he has the 2% lead in completion percentage on deeper balls on alot more attempts per season (did not check just general impression). For pocket presence I would have to go with Brady he seems to have a spider sense back there.Leadership is tough to call. Manning does a good job running the offense and keeping the offfense scoring. Brady does the same with his offense so I would say a toss up.I think alot of people do not appreciate Brady because the surrounding team and coaching staff are good stable unit. Plus the defense does it's job quietly also.Manning takes a lot of flack for losses as all QB's do. But I think he's under appreciated because he does not have a good Defense backing him up.
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stevetrash
Footballguy
I can't believe how many people have voted for Manning. All things being equal, when the pressure's on, I'd choose Brady in a heartbeat.Manning has the better stats because there's no pressure during regular season and he can run up the score against weak opponents. But I believe he'll choke when playoff time comes around, like he's done in the past. I don't like his attitude either.
Arm Chair Express
Footballguy
Did you just start watching football this year? Manning has passed for over 4000 yds now in what 5 or 6 straight seasons. Wayne and Stockley didn't come through as receivers until this year. Manning had Harrison and Edge, the big 3. Without Manning it wouldn't have been the big 3. It would have been Edge. Harrison was a nobody until Manning came along. He may have developed into a nice receiver, but would he turned into the player he is today without Manning? Manning had to force ball into Harrison because he was the only receiver worth a crap on the team. Which is one of the reasons for his early career ints. Life for Manning wasn't always this good in Indy.Here we go again. Just because of Brady's lack of flashiness and a recent bad game, we're going to start bashing him again?This is the most beat to death topics of all times. Brady is the best. He's got super bowl wins, he's got clutch wins, and he runs his offense every bit as effectively as any other quarterback in the league. He does what he is told to do and needs to do to win games. He has accomplished his success with offensive tools that could be considered marginal at best. McNabb needed a marquee wideout to enjoy the success they had this year. Brady uses the tools he's given and does nothing but win football games and championships and will do so again this year.Peyton Manning has been the benefactor of one of the most talented offensive teams I can remember. Shoot, Craig Krenzel could probably put up Manning like numbers in that system. Just kidding but you see my point? Everyone that thinks Manning is a better quarterback is just flat out wrong.
Arm Chair Express
Footballguy
I can answer that for you, NO!
redsoxfan
Footballguy
T I M I N G means everything with these polls. This poll would have had vastly different results last year if it was done right after the superbowl.Doing it right now as Manning is about to set the all time TD record and 2 days after Brady's worst game of the year you will of course get a huge slant towards Manning.The best time to do a poll like this is when current events don't influence people's perceptions one way or the other.The reality is that both Manning and Brady are great QB's and there are a lot of different aspects of being a QB - for some of those Manning is the best and for some of those Brady is the best. In my opinion, Manning clearly has the edge when you're looking at the skill-based aspects, but Brady has the edge when you're looking at the leadership-based aspects.
Lol. This will be fun. 1. Nope, I have never watched football before.2. Manning, James, Harrison and even Wayne all 1st round picks. Manning and James were top 5 picks. Therefore, Harrison was somebody and not a nobody before. Wayne was a top college prospect too.3. Life hasn't always been good for Indy and it won't be good for them this year as they lose in the first round of the playoffs. Indy can keep spending and investing and focussing on their offense, rather than picking up any football history book and find that all, i repeat ALL super bowl champions have top ranked defenses (except 1st NE team, which was vastly improved over the course of the season and playing as a top defense at the time of the playoffs). 4. Brady was a late pick, 6th rd. A. Smith was a first rd pick, but a consistently mediocre player (like Harrison) in Buffalo before coming to NE. Dillon a 2nd round pick and obvious stud was brought in as the "marquee" name on the current team. Brown an 8th rd pick, Givens a 7th rd. pick, Branch a 2nd round pick, Patten undrafted. IOW, Manning has been given all the tools for success, Brady has made use of his tools for success, therefore a better QB.5. Did you see the first game of the year? If you watched that you cannot believe that Manning is a better QB than Brady. Brady was CLEARLY the better QB in that game. I'm sure you'll blame that on the team defenses the QBs were going agaist. LOL....all good QBs should exhibit success vs. the good defenses....and Manning doesn't always do that.I can come up with more proof if you want it, but need to get running right now. It's been real and fun and I look forward to your response.All you Manning lovers can keep thinking he's the best because he keeps putting up huge numbers, if the Colts ever wake up and realize that you need to play defense to win a Super Bowl, then maybe you can have a victory parade.
I just stumbled upon these goodies too:
TOMMY GUN
46-15---Tom Brady’s record as a starting quarterback in the NFL, including preseason, regular season and postseason games.
.754---Brady’s winning percentage as a starter (including all games).
4---The number of quarterbacks in the Super Bowl Era (since 1966) who own a career winning percentage above .700 (Brady, Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner).
6-0---Brady’s career postseason record.
7-0---Brady’s career overtime record (including postseason).
Yep, he pretty much sucks.
http://cachewww.patriots.com/games/index.c...id=2484&pcid=41
TOMMY GUN
46-15---Tom Brady’s record as a starting quarterback in the NFL, including preseason, regular season and postseason games.
.754---Brady’s winning percentage as a starter (including all games).
4---The number of quarterbacks in the Super Bowl Era (since 1966) who own a career winning percentage above .700 (Brady, Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner).
6-0---Brady’s career postseason record.
7-0---Brady’s career overtime record (including postseason).
Yep, he pretty much sucks.
http://cachewww.patriots.com/games/index.c...id=2484&pcid=41
thesurfshop19
Footballguy
That's not the argument. The argument is whether one QB is better than he is. Just one!My big question to you is that you say that a big defense is needed to win a championship and Manning doesn't have that. By extension, one could argue that you're saying that because Manning doesn't have a great defense and can't win titles, he's therefore not as good as Brady.
I'm not sure that I can agree on that point. Manning doesn't play defense.
As to who I think is better, I'd probably say Brady myself ... but I definitely wouldn't use your approach to the argument. And I definitely wouldn't argue that it's a clear-cut case, because it's not.
EDIT:
I'm referencing the following quotes:
A few more points:1. I don't agree that a dominant defense is necessary to win a championship, although it's probably the best way to achieve that. (For example, I don't feel that the 1997 and 1998 Broncos had necessarily dominant defenses, although they certainly played well in big games and made big plays.)
2. Manning has better tools but he also has better numbers and his teams always have better offenses. Horrible counter example: Is scoring a 1000 on the SAT in 9th grade better clearly than scoring 1200 in 11th grade?
3. I don't agree that a great QB has great success against great defenses all the time. In Brady's first Super Bowl run, he led two touchdown drives in 2+ games. Two. He came up ridiculously clutch at the end of the two games that he finished, but let's not forget the role that his own defense and special teams played.
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jurb26
Footballguy
That and the fact that the timing of this is obviously suited for a Manning land-slide win. Hot off Brady's worst game as a pro and Manning about to set the record for TDs. These factors lead me to say that this poll is flawed. I mean seriously, I can see Manning leading the vote, but by this much.
People who think that Manning could walk into NE and have greater success need a reality check. NFL Os are structured around players strengths. Same for Brady walking into Indy though. This arguement could go on and on. Manning is blessed with FAR superior talent on O and Brady on D. Stats vs. wins. Same song different vs.Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Who was the better QB Tom Brady [ 12 ] [19.35%] Peyton Manning [ 49 ] [79.03%] Total Votes: 61 LOL, i see 12 Patriot fans have voted for this poll.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
OK, sorry, 11 Patriots fans and one heavily medicated Saints fan.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I don't know about bashing Brady. But, the only advantage Brady has over Manning is that he has two Super Bowl rings. I know you Brady lovers gush over this. Which is why you might have seen a few other polls out there from this morningHere we go again. Just because of Brady's lack of flashiness and a recent bad game, we're going to start bashing him again?This is the most beat to death topics of all times. Brady is the best. He's got super bowl wins, he's got clutch wins, and he runs his offense every bit as effectively as any other quarterback in the league. He does what he is told to do and needs to do to win games. He has accomplished his success with offensive tools that could be considered marginal at best. McNabb needed a marquee wideout to enjoy the success they had this year. Brady uses the tools he's given and does nothing but win football games and championships and will do so again this year.Peyton Manning has been the benefactor of one of the most talented offensive teams I can remember. Shoot, Craig Krenzel could probably put up Manning like numbers in that system. Just kidding but you see my point? Everyone that thinks Manning is a better quarterback is just flat out wrong.
ilfer or Marino?Hostetler or Kelly?D.Williams or F.Tarkenton?If you're prepared to defend your position that Super Bowls are the lone measure of a QBs greatness, then please entertain us all in how you'll pick the Super Bowl winners in this list OVER the non-SB winners above.If you think Brady runs the NE offense more efficiently than Manning runs Indy, please indulge us all on how you quantify that.Burning Sensation
Footballguy
:rotflmao: no :rotflmao: are you being serious?
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
As a Bills fan i dont like either QB, but i do know one thing, most any QB could walk into Brady's situation and get simialar results. No QB could do for the Colts what Manning does.Yeah, I am. Sorry you're too far up Manning's jock to consider it.:rotflmao: no :rotflmao: are you being serious?
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Put Shaun King in New England and they still have two Superbowl rings.
jurb26
Footballguy
I'm sorry, but your point just lost all credibility IMO. The contrast and validity of these comparisons is so weak its not even funny. You could have maintaned credibility if you would have made legite comaprisons. For example:Marino vs. Montanaor Tarkenton vs. BradshawThese would have both been far greater comparisons for your stance IMO. The ones you choose hardly relate well to your point. I mean seriously Dilfer vs. Marino...I don't know about bashing Brady. But, the only advantage Brady has over Manning is that he has two Super Bowl rings. I know you Brady lovers gush over this. Which is why you might have seen a few other polls out there from this morning
valhallan
Footballguy
Has any other team ever spent so much money on their offense as the Colts? Brady averaged 3692 yards and 25.5 TDs in his two full seasons as starter with a rag-tag group of receivers who are always injured and NO RUNNING BACK. Peyton gets to play action with a PRO BOWL RUNNING BACK and throw into single coverage all day to 3 first round picks.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Sorry you missed the point, then.I'm sorry, but your point just lost all credibility IMO. The contrast and validity of these comparisons is so weak its not even funny. You could have maintaned credibility if you would have made legite comaprisons. For example:Marino vs. Montanaor Tarkenton vs. BradshawThese would have both been far greater comparisons for your stance IMO. The ones you choose hardly relate well to your point. I mean seriously Dilfer vs. Marino...I don't know about bashing Brady. But, the only advantage Brady has over Manning is that he has two Super Bowl rings. I know you Brady lovers gush over this. Which is why you might have seen a few other polls out there from this morning
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Manning doesnt have Bellichek either, without him, Brady is Dilfer.
I was trying to come up with ways to look at numbers (hey, I'm a math guy and don't get to see manyof the Pats or Colts games) to show one way or the other so I first came up with looking at games where Brady and Manning faced the same defense (this year, so Brady had Dillon). I'm not sure if this has anything to do with anything but I'll throw it out there:Against the Ravens (at home for both)
ats win 24-3Colts win 20-10PASSING CP/AT YDS TD INTT. Brady 15/30 (50%) 172 0 0P. Manning 20/33 (61%) 249 1 0RUSHING ATT YDS TD LGC. Dillon 30 123 1 18E. James 22 69 1 16Against the Chiefs (at KC for both)ats win 27-19Colts lose 35-45PASSING CP/AT YDS TD INTT. Brady 17/26 (65%) 315 1 0P. Manning 25/44 (57%) 472 5 1RUSHING ATT YDS TD LGC. Dillon 26 98 2 18E. James 10 34 0 9Looking at these stats, I'd have to come to the conclusion that Michael Vick is better than Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.edited to add rushing
ats win 24-3Colts win 20-10PASSING CP/AT YDS TD INTT. Brady 15/30 (50%) 172 0 0P. Manning 20/33 (61%) 249 1 0RUSHING ATT YDS TD LGC. Dillon 30 123 1 18E. James 22 69 1 16Against the Chiefs (at KC for both)ats win 27-19Colts lose 35-45PASSING CP/AT YDS TD INTT. Brady 17/26 (65%) 315 1 0P. Manning 25/44 (57%) 472 5 1RUSHING ATT YDS TD LGC. Dillon 26 98 2 18E. James 10 34 0 9Looking at these stats, I'd have to come to the conclusion that Michael Vick is better than Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.edited to add rushing
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I never understand why some people like to make claims without checking the record books first.I guess this depends on how you define "top-ranked." Using points per game against, three Super Bowl champions have had defenses ranked 10th in the NFL or worse. You'll have a hard time convincing most people that 12th out of 28 teams (1976 and 1983 Raiders) is "top-ranked."
Also, the 1968 Jets ranked 4th out of the 10-team AFL. Again, not exactly my idea of top-ranked.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Brady threw roughly the same number of passes (1128) as Manning (1157), which is ranked 4th-highest in the NFL, but ranked 6th (2002) and 10th (2003) in YARDS; 10th (2002) and 7th (2003) in TDs. Manning, on the other hand ranked 3rd (2002) and 1st (2003) in YARDS, throwing on average 500+yds more/season. He ranked 2nd in TDs both years.While Manning can throw the ball deeper and for more yards, he has a completion % roughly seven points greater than Brady over the last few years. The gap between 60% and 67% is not a minimal difference. Brady is a good quarterback. Just not in Manning's league.
bostonfred2
Footballguy
Harrison, Edge, Wayne and Clark are all first rounders, most early firsts. Stokley was a 4th rounder who played as the WR1 on his team for 5 years, learning to beat teams' #1 CB. Harrison "was a nobody" his first two years in the NFL, catching 64/836/8 and 73/866/6 in his first two years from Jim Harbum. Similarly, Wayne "broke out" last year - his third year - and continued his improvement this year. Manning broke 4000 yards for the first time the year James was drafted. James caught close to 600 of those yards a year. His yardage dropped and INTs shot way up the year James went down. He then added two first round pass catchers and a veteran WR1 (to be his WR3 no less) in each of the next three years and, not coincidentally, watched his numbers increase each year. Manning has incredible support. Please don't try to argue otherwise.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Brady has 2 Superbowl rings because of Bellichek(and the ref who overturned the fumble in the Raiders championship game in 2001) dont try to deny otherwise.
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