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Do you have any other strawmen to add to your argument? I didn't insinuate that. Clark is a TE, Marvin retired and Wayne is still great but aging. The system they run has been built around Manning, but to claim it isn't a system that leads to great passing stats is a bit convoluted.
Situation has changed drastically folks. No Moss, no spread formation, more dink dunk...
For the record, in the 5 years prior to Moss joining the Patriots, Brady averaged 3740/26 and his leading WRs were guys like Reche Caldwell, Deion Branch and David Givens.
From the very same article:
Different, but same as far as the ground game goes. Looks like the passes will be distributed a bit differently however.
And now they have a possession WR 9 months removed from a torn ACL and two rookie TE's, not to mention the oline is not as good as it used to be.
Yeah, rumor has it that teams are not sure how they are going to stop BJGE and the Pats run game.
Fixed. Lets not downplay the quality of play that Welker has shown, nor the abilities shown by Hernandez. These are very good NFL receiving options, better than the '06 NE WR corps.Brady down slightly as NE adjusts its scheme to account for the players on the field without Moss and how they're going to be defended. Somewhere around 3900/30. Yardage numbers have some upside, I think.
That's a diffrent story. Brady has options to throw the ball to, that's one of the reason they made this deal. Both teh rookie TE's look awesome (receiving wise too), and every short fast dude they put out there gets open and scores TD's. IN minnesota, they have the opposite problem, they have 2.5 guys they trust to catch the ball (harvin, shank0, and 1/2 of camarillo)
before you laugh that Pats run game has been doing pretty well the last few weeks. It's success at scoring in the red zone has been hurting Brady's numbers (taking away tds) more than anything.rYeah, rumor has it that teams are not sure how they are going to stop BJGE and the Pats run game.
Outside of the Monday night game which was certainly an aberration, Brady averaged almost exactly 250 a game with Moss drawing double coverage.I don't see how, without Moss, you expect Brady's numbers to be the exact same with upside. Even if best case scenario he could stay at the same level, where is the upside coming from?
Lets not discount the affect Moss has had on those players success, especially Welker. Its pretty easy to get open underneath when Moss is being doubled downfield, just ask Edelman.
Its easy to run when everyone thinks you are going to pass. Again, the whole offense suffers when the defense doesnt have to put their best corner and a safety on a WR.before you laugh that Pats run game has been doing pretty well the last few weeks. It's success at scoring in the red zone has been hurting Brady's numbers (taking away tds) more than anything.rYeah, rumor has it that teams are not sure how they are going to stop BJGE and the Pats run game.
I had expected an uptick in passing production with Moss on the field from the 250 / gm pace he was on, so projecting 250 / 1.7 tds for the rest of the season is a slightly down projection from what I had previously. The Pats offense is still pass heavy most weeks, and they will produce solid yardage most weeks that they aren't playing the Jets D or scoring 3 non-offensive TDs, with or without Moss. I agree that Moss drew coverage to open other guys, but I don't believe that every snap Moss was on the field the D doubled him. I saw a lot of single coverage against the Jets, and the MIA game was tough to use as a barometer. Having moved out of the NE area, I haven't had a chance to watch all the games, so I can't speak accurately on the % of plays Moss was pulling doubles. As for the more TDs this year than last year, I have seen enough footage this year in preseason and the 4 games to date to state that Brady looks much more comfortable and decisive in the pocket than in '09. Last season, he felt the pressure pulled the ball down more than any other season I've seen him play. This year, he looks more like he did prior to the knee in '08, sliding and stepping up in the pocket. His accuracy looks better than last year, and although his line isn't as good as they played in most of '07, he has had a lot of time most weeks. He's only been sacked 5 times this year, 3 from the MIA game ( I came away impressed with Wake in that game )
No it is not from a FF perspective.
New England remaining a very pass heavy team is contrary to everything being said right now.
The interesting stat out of this report, that I haven't seen yet, is the rush/pass breakdown of the 146 plays they've run out of a 2 TE set.I will say that the NE 2 TE set with Gronkowski and Hernandez is not your 60's era Packers power football. Hernandez is a WR in at TE body, and is much more frequently used as a receiving weapon than a blocker.
every receiver now is a YAC monster, even woodhead.
You and I obviously differ on our views of Belly-chick's ability to gameplan a successful offense. When was the last time the pats didn't routinely outscheme their opponents?
or a poor mans kevin faulk.
This. Woodhead was clearly brought in because he could play Faulk's role; the kid is very versatile.
Al Davis sure thought so.
Every offense is a "system" to a degree, so I'm not sure how you are using that term. The Colts system is not a system like the Pats system, where the QB is almost interchangeable (see Cassell in NE, or Orton in DEN). The Colts depend on Manning to change a lot of plays at the LOS based on the defense. We're not talking about audibles, we are talking about being given a few plays and then Manning choosing which to run, and at times he audibles out of that. Sorgi or Painter would have nowhere near the success Manning has, because the Colts offense is not built to hide QB deficiencies by focusing on short routes and "clips".Manning puts up great stats because he is a great QB, and would be great in pretty much any offensive system. Put any other QB on the Colts offense and they would not be putting up great stats. So, no, the Colts "system" is not a system that leads to great passing stats. We've seen other QBs come in for Manning at times, and they stink.
In many cases, perhaps, but not when it comes to elite WRs. And Moss is elite. It's about 800 yards and 10 TDs difference between having Moss versus a run of the mill WR.
Not sure where you get that math. Moss has 139 receiving yards this season. Brady has 911 yards passing. Turns out that's only 15%.Between 07 and 09 (two years they played together), Moss accounted for 30% of Brady's passing yards. Even with the drop-off in production from Moss, Brady is still hitting top flight numbers for completion percentage (69.7%) and YPA (7.5).
I dyslexically used 193 instead of 139
Anyway, YPA and Comp% don't give you FF points. Brady's FF output has to go down without Moss.
But not when it comes to how it's going to affect the rest of the team, including the QB. Remember, just four or five weeks ago people were doomsaying Rivers and the Chargers offense with the loss of VJax. Every indicator seems to suggest that he and the offense is actually better this year without him.
Are you seriously comparing VJax to Moss?
Not directly. I was using VJax's situation as an example of how insignificant the addition or subtraction of a top-quality WR can be.Even if I was, do you somehow find that offensive or are you just prone to overreacting?switz said:
I'll bite. Consider everything that has to go right before a WR is even in a position to influence a play. I can't imagine that there is any other position that is more reliant on other people for their individual success than a WR.
RBs rely 100% on their O-Line, thats 4-5 more people than a WR relies on (quarterback)...
Those WRs need the O-line to be able to protect the QB long enough to get separation. I can also think of some backs who frequently made something (yardage) out of nothing (poor blocking). Barry Sanders springs to mind.
What were people projecting for Brady with Moss? He's still in the top 8 without Moss and I don't see a big drop in his numbers. 4000 and 30 is likely considering how abysmal the Pats defense is. They are going to have to win games by outscoring their opponents and I don't see the law firm or Danny Woodhead beating anybody on the ground. They will run enough to set up the pass.On a side note, would you take Big Ben over Brady right now? I sure as hell wouldn't considering how well that defense is playing. Big Ben will get his but there is no way he will be asked to throw the ball enough to put up the kind of numbers that are required to crack the top 8. Brady is still in a good situation with a defense that can't stop anyone. He will put up big numbers because of that alone.
