DropKick
Footballguy
Careful.. You sound like a Boys fan.
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Tom Brady Well Behind Schedule (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter David Yudkin
- Start date
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Au contraire Switz:Career comp percentageReally? 178 yards and 0 TDs, less that 6 YPA is similar to how Manning plays? You obviously don't know what you are talking about. Sorgi looked adequate beating a team that had nothing vested in the last game of the season, that's it. Nothing close to as good as Manning.Here's a clue: Manning has never averaged less than 233.7 yards per game for a season, he's never thrown less than 6.5 YPA, and that was his rookie season, outside of that he's never had less than 7.1 YPA for a season. His career passer rating is 94.7, and his lowest was 84.1This simply isn't true, in fact Sorgis numbers are (how you say) eerily similar to Mannings. You simply continue to spew things out that have NO basis in fact or reason
Sorgi's YPG is about 25% of what Manning's is for his career, and his best game was 178 yards. His yards per attempt is 6.0 for his career. Passer rating 89.9.
There is a huge dropoff in the passing offense between Manning and Sorgi. The fact you even bothered to try to argue that is ridiculous.
Manning = 64.4%
Sorgi = 63.5%
Career passer rating
Manning = 94.7
Sorgi = 89.9
Int percentage
Manning = 2.8%
Sorgi an astounding .06%
TD to Int ratio
Manning = 2 x 1
Sorgi = 6 x 1
Now according to Switzology 101 we also have to consider the FACT tha Sorgi has primarily been playing with scrubs and when well ahead. Can you imagine the numbers he would be putting up if he were playing with starters and actually trying to score rather than preserve a lead? It is mind boggling. When you throw in the fact that Manning fumbles aprox once every 3 ½ games while Sorgi only fumbles aprox once every 6 ½ games it is a wonder that Manning even remains the starter.
Switz:Better completion %, more yards per completion, more TDs. What about that is not better? Denying it again and again doesn't make it any less true.
NER:I am not denying that the meaningless statistics you are using are real; I am pointing at the absurdity of you comparing Bradys 7 minutes of playing time to Cassels 53 minutes. It is almost like saying Sorgi's 6x1 TD to Int ratio based on a tiny sampling is a significant statistic; of course it isn't, but that is precisely the nonsensical game you are playing.
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NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Part Deaux:
You want to pretend as if NEs offense did not change significantly in 07 and you have yet to explain in any coherent sort of manner what the difference is between NEs system and Indys. Maybe you could admit that you do not know what the difference is, but you just feel NEs is easier. Again, if it is just a system, then why doesn't everyone simply copy it and use it?Of course NE has a good system with good coaching and some great players, but you can say the same about Indy. You do not have a scintilla of real evidence to support the assertion that there is a huge difference between Indys system and NEs. I have asked you several times now and just to be sure I will ask again; if it is just NEs system, then why doesn't everyone (anyone?) simply copy it and use it?
Don't be so sure. Uncertainty at QB. Moss getting old. Still no legit RB1. Vrabel, Harrison, Bruschi all approaching 70. A keen eye on your franchise as far as the cheating goes.The window's closing, my friend.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Why the pre-occupation with the Patriots? Belichick dating a family member?
DropKick
Footballguy
Dude, you can't take one trick from the pony. It's like taking the idiot from his village.
Routilla
Footballguy
The only part of his post that applies to Cowboys is the part about "Winning Seasons, Superbowl Wins, Superbowl appearances, Playoff appearances". However since my Cowboys have not had the luxury of doing anything other than having winning seasons lately it does not hold any merit. Therefore your post does not align with Greenline's assertion. When or should I say if Dallas wins a playoff game then your post can be considered an accurate comparison. Until then you just sound like an anti-Dallas guy. Either way Cheers and Happy New Year!Oops, forgot to add why I entered this thread. I grabbed Brady off the ww in my league when another owner dropped him. We can keep 1 guy and I was giddy about TB making it back and being a stud again. Now with his slow recovery time I am what you might call pre-chapped heading into the '09 season.
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DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
i asked my doc today & i was pretty much correct. he was fairly certain that the initial connections were good, but the ensuing infection, flushing, extra scar tissue build up, lack of immediate PT, could all contribute to the loosening of the actual transplanted ligament. the connections are probably still fine, it's just a matter of how much the ligament loosened up. mine's tighter & more solid than my good knee atm.it wasn't the doctor, it's brady's body. i had surgery the day before brady at the same place, kerlan jobe. acl replacement, both meniscus torn . kerlan jobe is on par with andrews. my new ligament is very solid, doc couldn't be more pleased with it. the 'looseness' is due to the infection, & subsequent flushing, not the ability of the doctor.what i can tell you is that this quad rehab is a mother ####### son of a #####.Tom Terrific should have come on down to see my buddy Dr Jim Andrews
i am NO WHERE near back to anything resembling normal & don't really expect to be for another 3-4 months. & my normal involves a lot of drinking & sitting on my couch. little different than brady's life. at least he's gonna get married.
Brady has three rings and when he actually had WR's better then Branch/Brown he put up record numbers. We've seen him play. He makes the plays expected out of him. The Pats were one play away from going 19-0 last season.
This is almost as ridiculous as that Jerry Rice thread.
This is almost as ridiculous as that Jerry Rice thread.
Yeah but I'm sorry to remind you as a Giants fan... how were you one play away? There were many plays that contributed to the Patriot loss. You can say "The Catch" but then there was Ellis Hobbs being taken to school by Burress on the fade route. I don't think there was one play aside from the Tyree catch that defined that Superbowl. Aside from that catch the Patriots got out-hustled, out-coached and out-played. The best team won on that specific day. It wasn't even unexpected, their week 17 game came down to the wire. Giants over Patriots... and yes I'm a "Strong Islander"... out of Long Island.
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Finless
Footballguy
bostonfred said:
Switz is nuts. It would be like saying Magic Johnson or Larry Bird were good but by no means great. It was the system, coaching and the supporting cast. When players are consistently brought up in "Best Ever" discussions, its for a reason.Fred's Manning/Cassel comparison was right on the money. You bring up Harrison's lack of receptions. Lets not forget Peyton had Marshall Faulk and his 2200 yards from scrimmage that year including 900 receiving yards. Harrison + Faulk >= Moss + Welkerpuckalicious
Footballguy
I can't believe I'm getting sucked into this hijackery.Look, I'm just a sad Lions fan that hates all other teams because they are vastly superior. But I'll never understand the hostility (or is it jealousy?) towards NE. "Running up" the score? Are you serious? Maybe I'm old school but you PLAY TO WIN THE GAME. If the losing team is vastly outmatched why shouldn't the score reflect it?Das Boot said:
By this logic Manning is a poor sport too for faking a ball spike and faking a timeout call but I've never seen anyone claim this. Since when is trickery or *gasp* scoring whenever possible considered poor sportsmanship? It's part of the game.
Ok let's get back to the thread topic. I'm so ashamed of myself.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Maybe the play he was talking about was when Samuel had a chance to end the game with a pick but failed to get both feet in. I don't recall the details but I am pretty sure that would've been game over.
Koya
Footballguy
We can go back to that game and watch many plays that would have changed the outcome... heck, I have the DVD set to pop in whenever I want to relive the joy of the greatest championship I have had the pleasure to enjoy as a sports fan. The added bonus of watching Patriot nation be denied an eternal place in history, something they will never ever have again, with all their pomp and going in, well, that makes me enjoy the "we were one play away" comments all the more.But, to bring this back to subject, NO WAY with Cassel are the Pats close to being denied perfection in the Super Bowl. It's a ridiculous conversation to put a guy who had a nice season in any way on par with the greatest winner of his generation at the position.
Aabye
Footballguy
The Pats were three plays away from going 0-4 in Super Bowls during the Brady / Belichick era.And they were one play away from being beaten by the Chargers and missing one of those Super Bowls.And one play away from going to the playoffs this season.And one play away from beating the Colts and going to another Super Bowl...etc, etc.
treat88
Footballguy
This thread has gotten ridiculous.
Yes, Brady is one of the greatest QB's of all time.
Yes, his accomplishments will always be questioned due to Spygate.
No, Cassel isn't half the QB Brady was.
No, close to winning is not good enough.
Yes, there is reason to be concerned about Brady's 09 season.
Simple.
Yes, Brady is one of the greatest QB's of all time.
Yes, his accomplishments will always be questioned due to Spygate.
No, Cassel isn't half the QB Brady was.
No, close to winning is not good enough.
Yes, there is reason to be concerned about Brady's 09 season.
Simple.
Mr Capicollo
Footballguy
At 11-5, it seems like being in a very strong conference has more to do with being out of the playoffs, doesn't it? I fail to see how winning more than twice as many games as you lose means that you were inadequate in some way.
Aabye
Footballguy
Yeah. They won each Super Bowl by 3 measly points.I'm not hating on the Patriots. I'm hating on "one play away." More than half the games played in the NFL in a given year are "one play away" from the other team winning.
parrot
Footballguy
Which is fine. I'm just pointing out that each of those SBs were tied when Vinatieri lined up to kick. Many people conveniently forget that fact.
greenline
Footballguy
That's not true. In the SB vs Philadelphia, NE was up 10 but a blown coverage allowed the Eagles to score a late touchdown.
parrot
Footballguy
Doh. My bad. Reinforces my point though. None of Vinatiere's kicks were bailing them out of a losing position.
Why do people claim that Brady had the best statistical season of a quarterback ever? Peyton Manning's record breaking year was superior, look at his yards per attempt and then Brady's. Manning played sparingly in the last game of the season and went out when he got the record, Brady was in the whole game to get Manning's record. YPA is what you need to look at to know who was better. 9.2 YPA and the highest QB rating ever at 121.1 which is unreal. If Manning played the whole game he'd still have the record, probably 52 or 53 TDs. Brady had his super team where he had ridiculous amounts of time and Randy Moss to just toss it up to. Manning had three receivers with 1,000 yards and 10 TDs.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
The Manning and Brady seasons are testimony to the joke that the new pass coverage rules represent.This rules were pushed for by Bill Polian via the competition committee, so the Patriots simply exploited an obvious flaw in the system. This year, Phillip Rivers and Drew Brees are the beneficiaries. If Cassel had more experience you would have seen 40 TDs from him this year.
treat88
Footballguy
Amen.It's gone downhill since they changed the rules for Mel Blount.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Who is Mel Blount?
Das Boot
Footballguy
There are those that think running up the score is poor sportsmanship, and those who think when you have a big lead and the game is decided, screw sportsmanship and go for more points.Some don't even think there should be such a word as "sportsmanship".I can't believe I'm getting sucked into this hijackery.Look, I'm just a sad Lions fan that hates all other teams because they are vastly superior. But I'll never understand the hostility (or is it jealousy?) towards NE. "Running up" the score? Are you serious? Maybe I'm old school but you PLAY TO WIN THE GAME. If the losing team is vastly outmatched why shouldn't the score reflect it?
By this logic Manning is a poor sport too for faking a ball spike and faking a timeout call but I've never seen anyone claim this. Since when is trickery or *gasp* scoring whenever possible considered poor sportsmanship? It's part of the game.
Ok let's get back to the thread topic. I'm so ashamed of myself.
Borat
Footballguy
"Uncertainty at QB?" Seriously? Brady is going to be back, whether that will be at the beginning of next season, midway through, or even in 2010. We're talking arguably the best player in the NFL here. With the exception of the Colts, Falcons, and maybe the Saints, Giants, Steelers, and/or Chargers, I can't think of a team in the NFL who wouldn't swap QB situations with the Patriots going into next season. That is even more true when you consider that the option to franchise/re-sign Cassell is still on the board. With a healthy Brady, that list is down to just the Colts and maybe the Falcons.Moss is getting old? If you say so (despite his 2500 receiving yards and 34 TDs over the past two seasons), but this is a team that won championships with the likes of Deion Branch, David Givens, Troy Brown, and David Patten at WR. And we've still got Wes Welker, who's what, 27 years old and in the prime of his career?
We haven't had a legit RB1 at all during this run, with the exception of one stellar season out of Corey Dillon in '04, so that is more or less a throwaway point to me.
Harrison and Bruschi are indeed getting up there in age; enter Meriweather and Mayo. Vrabel seems to still have plenty of gas left in the tank.
Meanwhile, we've still got the best coach of this era, we've got the #1 or #2 quarterback of this era, we've got offensive and defensive lines in the primes of their careers, we've got an owner dedicated to winning, and we've got a franchise that has become an extremely attractive destination for veteran players who want to play for a winner - they want to play for Bill Belichick; they want to play with Tom Brady. They want to win, so they come to New England. The roster has been turned over quite a bit since that first Super Bowl win following the 2001 season, and even since the last Super Bowl win in 2004. Yet the team continues to cycle players in and out through the draft, free agency, and trades. And they continue to win. We've been hearing about this "window closing" for quite some time now, but when you've got elite ownership, an elite head coach, and elite quarterback play (which I wouldn't even call "elite" this 11-5 season), you're going to compete on a year-to-year basis.
Call it bragging; call it what you will, but these are the facts. I know most of the rest of the NFL would love to see the Patriots fall out of contention, but it's just not going to happen any time soon.
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If they keep predicting the demise eventually they will be right. Unfortunately for them it won't be any time soon. Even if we never win another title with this core of players we will be in the hunt for the foreseeable future. One other advantage we'll have is the picks we will have in April from the SD deal and most likely upcoming Cassell deal. If I were the Pats GM I'd give up whatever I had to land Taylor Mays assuming he comes out.
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wow the number of people ignoring Ws and looking for other stats to prove their point is shocking.
Brady in 2007, Manning few years back set NFL all time records that Marino, Favre, Unitas and...you name em' didn't accomplish, and yet Cassel and Sorgi are equal? It's laughable. Brady and Manning are in best ever discussions.
Compare Cassel and Sorgi to Jason Garrett, Jeff Rutledge, Frank Reich and other backups
Brady in 2007, Manning few years back set NFL all time records that Marino, Favre, Unitas and...you name em' didn't accomplish, and yet Cassel and Sorgi are equal? It's laughable. Brady and Manning are in best ever discussions.
Compare Cassel and Sorgi to Jason Garrett, Jeff Rutledge, Frank Reich and other backups
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
For the record, I congratulated Miami on making the playoffs, pointed out that New England had no excuses, and never stated that New England would beat Baltimore by 18.I simply stated Miami would lose to Baltimore by 18+.Yeah, it is easy to pull that "If we had gotten in, we would have won by 18" kinda crap. We will never know, since they didn't get in, so it is easy to say something that can never be disproved (or proved, for that matter). What matters is what did happened. The Patriots did not make the playoffs. They were not good enough to get in. Even if you take the crappy AFC West out of the equation, all the Patriots had to do was be one of the five best teams from the other three divisions, but they weren't. They were not good enough to get in.Don't bother. He's your typical non-playoff team fan saying the old, "teams are happy we didn't get in".You do realize that someone could easily say, "Did you happen to watch the NE/Seattle game? And you expect that team to beat the Ravens by 18 or more?" It cuts both ways.I completely agree with the criticisms of New England's performance and that there are no excuses for not making the playoffs.Saying that doesn't make Miami less of a "one and done" playoff team. Did you happen to watch the Kansas City game? And you expect that team to beat the Ravens? Obviously Vegas wouldn't have a 23 point swing between the games I mentioned, but I think its as obvious that Ravens will be favored.That's not being objective. Do you think the Ravens are disappointed to play Miami instead of New England? Do you think anyone would prefer to play New England over Miami right now? I've got Baltimore winning by 18+, and would have New England beating Baltimore by 5 if they were still in it. I doubt the concensus is much different than that, imo.If the Pats' VERY overrated coach could have beaten just one good team this year, they'd be playing next week. Why would anyone want to watch a team that wasn't good enough to get into the playoffs, over two teams that were?That is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site.Have fun watching Baltimore / Miami next week. Should be riveting television...This season has been great, despite Brady being out for almost all of it. The league is much better and bigger than any one player.
You do realize that New England hasn't beaten a good non-divisional team all year, right? 0-3 against Pittsburgh, San Diego, and Indy. Your homerism is affecting your reality.
Next.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Brady's walking around without a limp 8 months out from from opening day.
This is why some people stay out of the shark pool.Somehow we went from the condition of Brady's knee next year to a statistical comparison of Cassel's first season to Manning's first season
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