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Tommy Kelly is worth HOW MUCH?!?!?!? (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Jason Wood

Zoo York
OK, I realize Tommy Kelly is a young promising defensive lineman that the Raiders think can become a force by moving inside to under tackle, but is he really worth $50mm? ($25mm in the first three seasons?).

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3269154

He's coming off a torn ACL, being asked to change positions and nets the largest contract in D-line history? Seriously?

 
personally i thought davis lost it when he kept maybe the best player on his roster (marcus allen) on the bench... out of spite...

& that was what, like three decades ago?

so if he was having hard core senior moments A THIRD OF A CENTURY AGO, where does that leave him now... :thumbup:

* maybe more like ealy '90s, so closer to two decades since he went off the deep end...

 
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This just echoes what I have been saying in other threads . . . that the ever expanding salary cap encourages teams with a ton of cap space to blow it on players that don't deserve the bounty that they sign for.

For those that remember, the NFLPA was striving to be altruistic by spreading the wealth across all levels of players to "even the playing field" in sharing the wealth of the NFL.

But what happened instead is a bunch of decent but not great players got filthy rich signing uber contracts while the typical NFL player sees about the same paycheck as he always did. And god forbid that the Average Joe was due too much money or he'd be cut even quicker than he was before.

IMO, this signing is a bad omen for the feeding frenzy we will see over the next few days, so be prepared for even more jaw dropping deals and the chorus of "what were they thinking."

 
Any chance this doubles as a spiteful attempt to make the Broncos miserable when trading for, and then signing, a defensive tackle?

 
I think this also confirms that the average football fan fails to realize how rare and valuable good DTs are in the NFL. A top DT is worth more to his team than a top RB ... and the draft and deals being handed down in the past few years really reflect this ...

Of course, this does not mean that the NFL teams are any better able to identify great DTs than any other position ... just that they are willing to pay and reach for them. Another example? Last year with Cory Redding. This is not the first time a young FA DT hit an astonishing payday and everyone looked at each other and said "Who's that?"

 
The Bears' negotiations with Tommie Harris just got much more difficult. Thanks a lot, you #######' senile, jumpsuit-wearing, coach-killing has-been.

 
BTW, last year Cory Redding signed a seven-year, $49 million contract that included $16 million in guarantees, including $13 million in signing bonus and roster guarantees.

Kelly's deal is a seven-year, $50.5 million contract that has $18.125 million in guarantees.

That's about right, if you pick the right guy.

 
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Why can't the owners and players can't agree on an extension to the collective bargaining agreement again?

Based on this deal (and those that will be announced over the next few weeks) both sides seem to be doing just fine.

 
I just can't wait to hear the owners cry about how "Salaries have gotten out of control." The NHL was able to get the players association to take a pay cut and the owners have not been able to restrain themselves. Get ready NFL fans, greed rules all. There will be a strike/lockout because both sides will ALWAYS want more and destroy the great thing that now exists.

 
Whoever started the "are the Lions the worst ran [sic] franchise in sports?" poll obviously never heard of the Raiders.

 
I wonder if this is worse than the 6-year, $78 million deal that Jon Koncak got from the Atlanta Hawks as a backup center. At the time that was more than Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, and Magic Johnson got paid.

 
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David Yudkin said:
I wonder if this is worse than the 6-year, $78 million deal that Jon Koncak got from the Atlanta Hawks as a backup center. At the time that was more than Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, and Magic Johnson got paid.
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The NBA is in a totally different universe. There are soooo many of their contracts that are just outright ridiculous.
 
David Yudkin said:
I wonder if this is worse than the 6-year, $78 million deal that Jon Koncak got from the Atlanta Hawks as a backup center. At the time that was more than Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, and Magic Johnson got paid.
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No, it's not. The Indians that sold Manhattan for some beads made fun of the Koncak deal.
 
More Raider Haters........Great!

Well, first off, Congratulations to Tommy Kelly. Second, I'm not so sure that he was deserving of that much $$$$$$ at this time, but hey, I do know that I really like this guy as a player. And though most of you haven't heard of him, this guy is a playmaker, and possibly a rising star. Before the ACL, this guy was consistenly in the oppsing team's backfields and I remember games where he was simply unblockable......Denver fans should also recall this.....And none of us are in that locker room or around this team enough to know what kind of teammate this kid is. So if he's getting this type of contract, as a Raider fan who attends many gms, I know enough to give him the benefit of the doubt that there must be a lot more than meets the (casual) eye there in this kid.

Lastly, many of you probably hadn't heard of guys like Laroi Glover or Rod Coleman either BEFORE they left the Raiders and became Pro Bowlers elsewhere. One thing is for sure, the Raiders have an EXCELLENT track record of selecting, and developing, latter Rd DLs they've selected (Just to name a few, see Howie Long, Greg Townsend, Sistrunk, Grady Jackson before he ballooned to 400+, the aforementioned Glover and Coleman, and other teams' DL as well, like Burgess).

It is apparent to me that Mr. Davis sees enough in this kid to make him open up his wallet and not allow him to go to another team and truly blossom. So, it just might be wise to allow this to play itself out 'cause I've seen enough of Kelly to believe that he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player. As the legendary DeBarge family once crooned......

"Time Will Reveal"

 
kremenull said:
More Raider Haters........Great!

Well, first off, Congratulations to Tommy Kelly. Second, I'm not so sure that he was deserving of that much $$$$$$ at this time, but hey, I do know that I really like this guy as a player. And though most of you haven't heard of him, this guy is a playmaker, and possibly a rising star. Before the ACL, this guy was consistenly in the oppsing team's backfields and I remember games where he was simply unblockable......Denver fans should also recall this.....And none of us are in that locker room or around this team enough to know what kind of teammate this kid is. So if he's getting this type of contract, as a Raider fan who attends many gms, I know enough to give him the benefit of the doubt that there must be a lot more than meets the (casual) eye there in this kid.

Lastly, many of you probably hadn't heard of guys like Laroi Glover or Rod Coleman either BEFORE they left the Raiders and became Pro Bowlers elsewhere. One thing is for sure, the Raiders have an EXCELLENT track record of selecting, and developing, latter Rd DLs they've selected (Just to name a few, see Howie Long, Greg Townsend, Sistrunk, Grady Jackson before he ballooned to 400+, the aforementioned Glover and Coleman, and other teams' DL as well, like Burgess).

It is apparent to me that Mr. Davis sees enough in this kid to make him open up his wallet and not allow him to go to another team and truly blossom. So, it just might be wise to allow this to play itself out 'cause I've seen enough of Kelly to believe that he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player. As the legendary DeBarge family once crooned......

"Time Will Reveal"
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Signed,Lane "Whatever you say boss" Kiffin

 
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kremenull said:
More Raider rs........Great!

Well, first off, Congratulations to Tommy Kelly. Second, I'm not so sure that he was deserving of that much $$$$$$ at this time, but hey, I do know that I really like this guy as a player. And though most of you haven't heard of him, this guy is a playmaker, and possibly a rising star. Before the ACL, this guy was consistenly in the oppsing team's backfields and I remember games where he was simply unblockable......Denver fans should also recall this.....And none of us are in that locker room or around this team enough to know what kind of teammate this kid is. So if he's getting this type of contract, as a Raider fan who attends many gms, I know enough to give him the benefit of the doubt that there must be a lot more than meets the (casual) eye there in this kid.

Lastly, many of you probably hadn't heard of guys like Laroi Glover or Rod Coleman either BEFORE they left the Raiders and became Pro Bowlers elsewhere. One thing is for sure, the Raiders have an EXCELLENT track record of selecting, and developing, latter Rd DLs they've selected (Just to name a few, see Howie Long, Greg Townsend, Sistrunk, Grady Jackson before he ballooned to 400+, the aforementioned Glover and Coleman, and other teams' DL as well, like Burgess).

It is apparent to me that Mr. Davis sees enough in this kid to make him open up his wallet and not allow him to go to another team and truly blossom. So, it just might be wise to allow this to play itself out 'cause I've seen enough of Kelly to believe that he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player. As the legendary DeBarge family once crooned......

"Time Will Reveal"
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Key phrase in bold. If he's healthy, that's one thing. But why give someone coming off a torn ACL the largest contract for a DT ever?
 
kremenull said:
More Raider Haters........Great!

Well, first off, Congratulations to Tommy Kelly. Second, I'm not so sure that he was deserving of that much $$$$$$ at this time, but hey, I do know that I really like this guy as a player. And though most of you haven't heard of him, this guy is a playmaker, and possibly a rising star. Before the ACL, this guy was consistenly in the oppsing team's backfields and I remember games where he was simply unblockable......Denver fans should also recall this.....And none of us are in that locker room or around this team enough to know what kind of teammate this kid is. So if he's getting this type of contract, as a Raider fan who attends many gms, I know enough to give him the benefit of the doubt that there must be a lot more than meets the (casual) eye there in this kid.

Lastly, many of you probably hadn't heard of guys like Laroi Glover or Rod Coleman either BEFORE they left the Raiders and became Pro Bowlers elsewhere. One thing is for sure, the Raiders have an EXCELLENT track record of selecting, and developing, latter Rd DLs they've selected (Just to name a few, see Howie Long, Greg Townsend, Sistrunk, Grady Jackson before he ballooned to 400+, the aforementioned Glover and Coleman, and other teams' DL as well, like Burgess).

It is apparent to me that Mr. Davis sees enough in this kid to make him open up his wallet and not allow him to go to another team and truly blossom. So, it just might be wise to allow this to play itself out 'cause I've seen enough of Kelly to believe that he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player. As the legendary DeBarge family once crooned......

"Time Will Reveal"
Click to expand...
I really want to agree with you here, but I too attend all the Raiders games. Kelly was inconsistent before the ACL and now after the ACL, there are too many questions for me to get on board with this. Gerrard Warren gets into the backfield alot too, but if you can't keep your assignment and/or stop the run, then you are not a "Pro Bowl" caliber DL. That is how I see Kelly. He is a gap shooter and he doesn't stop the run very well. I like to have him on the team, but at this price? He's not even an every down player.I think I'm more pissed about the 18M guaranteed when we lost a year of development for our "Franchise" QB for only 3 more million in guaranteed money. I hope you turn out to be correct and I'm wrong here.

 
Holy mother of God. That is the most shocking amount I've seen in a long, long while. I like Kelly a lot, but he's the highest paid DT in football and he's coming off of serious knee surgery. That concern alone should have prevented him from getting a contract that would set the precedent in the DT market. Wow.

 
kremenull said:
More Raider Haters........Great!

Well, first off, Congratulations to Tommy Kelly. Second, I'm not so sure that he was deserving of that much $$$$$$ at this time, but hey, I do know that I really like this guy as a player. And though most of you haven't heard of him, this guy is a playmaker, and possibly a rising star. Before the ACL, this guy was consistenly in the oppsing team's backfields and I remember games where he was simply unblockable......Denver fans should also recall this.....And none of us are in that locker room or around this team enough to know what kind of teammate this kid is. So if he's getting this type of contract, as a Raider fan who attends many gms, I know enough to give him the benefit of the doubt that there must be a lot more than meets the (casual) eye there in this kid.

Lastly, many of you probably hadn't heard of guys like Laroi Glover or Rod Coleman either BEFORE they left the Raiders and became Pro Bowlers elsewhere. One thing is for sure, the Raiders have an EXCELLENT track record of selecting, and developing, latter Rd DLs they've selected (Just to name a few, see Howie Long, Greg Townsend, Sistrunk, Grady Jackson before he ballooned to 400+, the aforementioned Glover and Coleman, and other teams' DL as well, like Burgess).

It is apparent to me that Mr. Davis sees enough in this kid to make him open up his wallet and not allow him to go to another team and truly blossom. So, it just might be wise to allow this to play itself out 'cause I've seen enough of Kelly to believe that he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player. As the legendary DeBarge family once crooned......

"Time Will Reveal"
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As a Raider fan, you've seen more of Tommy Kelly than I. From what I've seen of him, I can agree with you. He's got talent, albeit I thought he was a little inconsistent. I think what really has me shocked by this signing is that I don't think any team out there would have given him close to that. Of course we'll never know for sure, but I think they left a lot of money on the table (i.e. could have probably gotten him for less). As for your comparisons of Glover, Coleman, Sistrunk, Long, Townsend and Jackson, none of the current defensive coaching regime were even around when these guys were in Oakland. At least DC Rob Ryan and DL Coach Keith Millard weren't. The only constant among these guys is Al Davis. Are you saying he's a defensive line mastermind?

 
kremenull said:
More Raider Haters........Great!

Well, first off, Congratulations to Tommy Kelly. Second, I'm not so sure that he was deserving of that much $$$$$$ at this time, but hey, I do know that I really like this guy as a player. And though most of you haven't heard of him, this guy is a playmaker, and possibly a rising star. Before the ACL, this guy was consistenly in the oppsing team's backfields and I remember games where he was simply unblockable......Denver fans should also recall this.....And none of us are in that locker room or around this team enough to know what kind of teammate this kid is. So if he's getting this type of contract, as a Raider fan who attends many gms, I know enough to give him the benefit of the doubt that there must be a lot more than meets the (casual) eye there in this kid.

Lastly, many of you probably hadn't heard of guys like Laroi Glover or Rod Coleman either BEFORE they left the Raiders and became Pro Bowlers elsewhere. One thing is for sure, the Raiders have an EXCELLENT track record of selecting, and developing, latter Rd DLs they've selected (Just to name a few, see Howie Long, Greg Townsend, Sistrunk, Grady Jackson before he ballooned to 400+, the aforementioned Glover and Coleman, and other teams' DL as well, like Burgess).

It is apparent to me that Mr. Davis sees enough in this kid to make him open up his wallet and not allow him to go to another team and truly blossom. So, it just might be wise to allow this to play itself out 'cause I've seen enough of Kelly to believe that he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player. As the legendary DeBarge family once crooned......

"Time Will Reveal"
Click to expand...
You developed Burgess's talent? :goodposting:

 
It looks like a big number but it isn't so bad, it's more than I would have paid, but here's the breakdown so everyone feels a bit better. His bonus gives us a 2.59 mill cap hit per year, over the next 3 years his salary has about a 2.4 million hit. So 5 mill per year for the next 3 years is his cap impact. Everyone knows that even though its a 7 yr deal, its really a 3 year. Now the average for 4,5,6 is 6 mill a year salary + 2.59 in bonus. 8.5 mill cap hit. But again at that point the deal gets restructured. It looks like a monster contract, but it isn't. 5 mill per year with the shape we're in is fair, probably below fair market value for what he would have gotten in FA>

:football:

 
southeastjerome said:
kremenull said:
More Raider Haters........Great!

Well, first off, Congratulations to Tommy Kelly. Second, I'm not so sure that he was deserving of that much $$$$$$ at this time, but hey, I do know that I really like this guy as a player. And though most of you haven't heard of him, this guy is a playmaker, and possibly a rising star. Before the ACL, this guy was consistenly in the oppsing team's backfields and I remember games where he was simply unblockable......Denver fans should also recall this.....And none of us are in that locker room or around this team enough to know what kind of teammate this kid is. So if he's getting this type of contract, as a Raider fan who attends many gms, I know enough to give him the benefit of the doubt that there must be a lot more than meets the (casual) eye there in this kid.

Lastly, many of you probably hadn't heard of guys like Laroi Glover or Rod Coleman either BEFORE they left the Raiders and became Pro Bowlers elsewhere. One thing is for sure, the Raiders have an EXCELLENT track record of selecting, and developing, latter Rd DLs they've selected (Just to name a few, see Howie Long, Greg Townsend, Sistrunk, Grady Jackson before he ballooned to 400+, the aforementioned Glover and Coleman, and other teams' DL as well, like Burgess).

It is apparent to me that Mr. Davis sees enough in this kid to make him open up his wallet and not allow him to go to another team and truly blossom. So, it just might be wise to allow this to play itself out 'cause I've seen enough of Kelly to believe that he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player. As the legendary DeBarge family once crooned......

"Time Will Reveal"
Click to expand...
As a Raider fan, you've seen more of Tommy Kelly than I. From what I've seen of him, I can agree with you. He's got talent, albeit I thought he was a little inconsistent. I think what really has me shocked by this signing is that I don't think any team out there would have given him close to that. Of course we'll never know for sure, but I think they left a lot of money on the table (i.e. could have probably gotten him for less). As for your comparisons of Glover, Coleman, Sistrunk, Long, Townsend and Jackson, none of the current defensive coaching regime were even around when these guys were in Oakland. At least DC Rob Ryan and DL Coach Keith Millard weren't. The only constant among these guys is Al Davis. Are you saying he's a defensive line mastermind?
Click to expand...
No, but I am saying that Al has a keen eye for talent, at ANY position. And the DL coach Millard is very well respected around the league from what I've heard. I also know that on the current roster there are also several other undervalued 'diamonds in the rough' on the DL.....Jay Richardson and Chris Clemons, both latter round picks as well....Clemons is reportedly about to sign a fairly lucrative deal as well.......a young Pat Swilling is what he reminds me of....undersized at about 6'3+ and 245 or so, but lightning fast off the edge......don't be surprised to see double-digit sacks out of this guy next season in partial duty....Understand one thing and Al D. is already taking heed........The NY Giants have set the current blueprint for success with that deep rotation of DL, and others will be quick to follow.......If you can get to the passer, hit him all day, then you've got a great shot to win.......How many of you guys really believed in Tuck, Alford, and Umenyiora coming out of college????

 
To be clear, I'm not saying Tommy Kelly isn't worth the money IF HE REALLY IS ABOUT TO DEVELOP INTO A PRO BOWL DEFENSIVE TACKLE. But this is a guy that's spent more time at defensive END and tore his ACL last year. I know recovery from torn ACL's has improved in recent years, but 300+ pound guys aren't exactly great candidates to rebound without a long rehab, are they?

I think David (Yudkin) hit this one on the head. There is so much money available this year (teams have an unprecedented amount under the collective cap) that the new market rate is going to seem egregious in many cases.

 
JAA said:
kremenull said:
More Raider Haters........Great!

Well, first off, Congratulations to Tommy Kelly. Second, I'm not so sure that he was deserving of that much $$$$$$ at this time, but hey, I do know that I really like this guy as a player. And though most of you haven't heard of him, this guy is a playmaker, and possibly a rising star. Before the ACL, this guy was consistenly in the oppsing team's backfields and I remember games where he was simply unblockable......Denver fans should also recall this.....And none of us are in that locker room or around this team enough to know what kind of teammate this kid is. So if he's getting this type of contract, as a Raider fan who attends many gms, I know enough to give him the benefit of the doubt that there must be a lot more than meets the (casual) eye there in this kid.

Lastly, many of you probably hadn't heard of guys like Laroi Glover or Rod Coleman either BEFORE they left the Raiders and became Pro Bowlers elsewhere. One thing is for sure, the Raiders have an EXCELLENT track record of selecting, and developing, latter Rd DLs they've selected (Just to name a few, see Howie Long, Greg Townsend, Sistrunk, Grady Jackson before he ballooned to 400+, the aforementioned Glover and Coleman, and other teams' DL as well, like Burgess).

It is apparent to me that Mr. Davis sees enough in this kid to make him open up his wallet and not allow him to go to another team and truly blossom. So, it just might be wise to allow this to play itself out 'cause I've seen enough of Kelly to believe that he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player. As the legendary DeBarge family once crooned......

"Time Will Reveal"
Click to expand...
You developed Burgess's talent? :lmao:
Click to expand...
Sure, he came from the Eagles....so I'll stand corrected on that point. But the signing of Burgess proves my other point. Al D knows talent at ANY position. IIRC, there were many folks, including a co-worker of mine who I have some very good football discussions with, who believed that the Raiders overpaid for Burgess when he signed......As you should also know, he was a PART-TIME player in Philly, and hadn't blown up yet.........hmmmmmmm, sounds like a familiar story........Glover, Coleman, and now Kelly, Clemons........hmmmmmmmmmLike I said, we shall see.......... :lmao: :no:

 
Um, Tyler Brayton was an Al Davis pick. He wanted him. Not sure how the coaching staff felt about Brayton before the draft or if they were 'on board' with the pick, but he was definately wanted by Al. Of course we all know how that pick has turned out. 7 sacks in 5 seasons, and 0 the past 2.

I do like Kelly, and this contract may turn out good for both. I would assume his current health status was verified as being fine before the contract was offered. His injury was fairly early in the season.

 
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BustedKnuckles said:
It looks like a big number but it isn't so bad, it's more than I would have paid, but here's the breakdown so everyone feels a bit better. His bonus gives us a 2.59 mill cap hit per year, over the next 3 years his salary has about a 2.4 million hit. So 5 mill per year for the next 3 years is his cap impact. Everyone knows that even though its a 7 yr deal, its really a 3 year. Now the average for 4,5,6 is 6 mill a year salary + 2.59 in bonus. 8.5 mill cap hit. But again at that point the deal gets restructured. It looks like a monster contract, but it isn't. 5 mill per year with the shape we're in is fair, probably below fair market value for what he would have gotten in FA> :)
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This is the best breakdown of this deal on this thread. :D That being said, I still think they paid too much.Finally, this should really screw up a few teams plans... Tommie Harris with Chicago comes to mind. He just got a tons more leverage with a team that MUST sign him.
 
Jason Wood said:
OK, I realize Tommy Kelly is a young promising defensive lineman that the Raiders think can become a force by moving inside to under tackle, but is he really worth $50mm? ($25mm in the first three seasons?).

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3269154

He's coming off a torn ACL, being asked to change positions and nets the largest contract in D-line history? Seriously?
Click to expand...
Last year Cory Redding was the highest-paid defensive tackle in football. Redding, the team's franchise player in 2007, agreed to a seven-year, $49 million contract that included $16 million in guarantees, including $13 million in signing bonus and roster guarantees.Results: ONE SACK in '07

 
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As a Bears fan we can now kiss Tommie Harris goodbye.....or piss him off and TAG him next year. Drew just brought this signing up on an interview on NFL Network. If it's war he wants, it's the TAG he gets!

 
jesus christ...I dont even know who this bum is...

thank god the Vikes already locked up Phat and KWill...who knows what they would want after seeing what this guy got...

 
vikingdave said:
jesus christ...I dont even know who this bum is...thank god the Vikes already locked up Phat and KWill...who knows what they would want after seeing what this guy got...
Click to expand...
:thumbup:I'd say any competent NFL analyst had Kelly rated as the #1 DT on the FA market with Hayesworth tagged. $18 mil guaranteed isnt outrageous for someone in that position. He was viewed as a up-and-coming, future probowler prior to his ACL tear last season.
 
BustedKnuckles said:
It looks like a big number but it isn't so bad, it's more than I would have paid, but here's the breakdown so everyone feels a bit better. His bonus gives us a 2.59 mill cap hit per year, over the next 3 years his salary has about a 2.4 million hit. So 5 mill per year for the next 3 years is his cap impact. Everyone knows that even though its a 7 yr deal, its really a 3 year. Now the average for 4,5,6 is 6 mill a year salary + 2.59 in bonus. 8.5 mill cap hit. But again at that point the deal gets restructured. It looks like a monster contract, but it isn't. 5 mill per year with the shape we're in is fair, probably below fair market value for what he would have gotten in FA> :thumbup:
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Its not the 7 years I find surprising, longevity means a lot less than guaranteed money. Which is why I am surprised with the $18 million guaranteed for a player who is relatively unproven and coming off of a major injury.
 
The Man With No Name said:
Um, Tyler Brayton was an Al Davis pick. He wanted him. Not sure how the coaching staff felt about Brayton before the draft or if they were 'on board' with the pick, but he was definately wanted by Al. Of course we all know how that pick has turned out. 7 sacks in 5 seasons, and 0 the past 2.

I do like Kelly, and this contract may turn out good for both. I would assume his current health status was verified as being fine before the contract was offered. His injury was fairly early in the season.
Click to expand...
Yeah, sure was. But we were talking about developing late Rd draft picks....so your input here is not on the discussion....every team has some early round failures, but how the Raiders have developed their late Rd DL talent is truly a knack....Please keep it on the subject
 
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