Top-5 All Time coaches? (1 Viewer)

[switz]

My list, in no order:BelichickShulaLombardiPaul BrownHallasHon Mention for Tom Landry, John Madden, and Bill WalshThoughts?

Anyone who doesn't have Lombardi as #1 is crazy... that's my thoughts.

 

[switz]

Belichick still has me wondering how good he alone is. Without Brady, how many championships does Belichick have? I know he is not the disaster we saw in Cleveland, but nor do I know for sure he is the genius we have proclaimed him to be now. Even a few years ago we didnt realize HOW good Brady was and maybe Belichick got more credit because we didnt realize that Brady may be the most important (or almost as important at worst) thing on the team.

I'd actually go another way... how much credit should Weis and Crennel get for NE's success? Yes the offense was explosive this year, but that has more to do with Moss (and Welker) than anything else. The playcalling was not as good as it was when Weis was there. Defensively they haven't been as good since Crennel left.

 

[Marc Levin]

My list, in no order:BelichickShulaLombardiPaul BrownHallasHon Mention for Tom Landry, John Madden, and Bill WalshThoughts?

Anyone who doesn't have Lombardi as #1 is crazy... that's my thoughts.

Yes - I agree.Anything to actually add here or do you simply agree with my list?

 

[switz]

My list, in no order:BelichickShulaLombardiPaul BrownHallasHon Mention for Tom Landry, John Madden, and Bill WalshThoughts?

Anyone who doesn't have Lombardi as #1 is crazy... that's my thoughts.

Yes - I agree.Anything to actually add here or do you simply agree with my list?

Sorry, I quoted your reply, but that was more in response to the other posts I've seen w/o Lombardi as #1I would probably haveLombardiWalshHalasBrownLandryShulaParcellsMaddenWe'll see with Belichick. I just ma not so sure who gets credit for his success with the Patriots. He certainly wasn't that good in CLE. And he hasn't won a SB without Weis and Crennel.

 

[mbuehner]

How has this thread gone so far without mention of a certain living legend, from a certain little town, that starts with a C, ends with an O, and has a Hicag in the middle?

You all know who I mean... Diamond Dave Wannstedt.

 

[Marc Levin]

How has this thread gone so far without mention of a certain living legend, from a certain little town, that starts with a C, ends with an O, and has a Hicag in the middle? You all know who I mean... Diamond Dave Wannstedt.

But what if the hurricane was named Hurricane Wannstedt?

 

[mbuehner]

Actually I'm compiling my list, but I'm trying to figure out 4 guys who coached Ditka.

 

[phthalatemagic]

I just ma not so sure who gets credit for his success with the Patriots. He certainly wasn't that good in CLE. And he hasn't won a SB without Weis and Crennel.

and that's the same type of garbage I hear from Patriot fans criticize Bill Parcells."As soon as Belichick left, he stopped winning..."

 

[phthalatemagic]

Don't really see the reasoning of the people putting Shula so high on the list and leaving Landry off. Consider: Shula 32 years, playoff record : 19-17..... Landry 28 years, playoff record: 20-16 ( the most by any NFL coach ) Also what innovations did Shula bring to the game? Landry invented the 4-3 defense to showcase Sam Huffs talents. Although he didn't invent the shotgun formation, it was out of the league for at least 10 years before he brought it back in the early 70's and has been used ever since. He also prefected the motion offense that completely dominates the league today.

Don't be sad. Shula > Landry

 

[Tau837]

This is an interesting thread.

I haven't noticed that anyone has given any coaches credit for their assistant coaching. For example, while I am not a fan, Belicheck not only has won 3 Super Bowls and a 4th AFC championship as a head coach, he also won 2 Super Bowls (with the Giants) and another AFC championship (with the Pats) as a defensive coordinator. Does he get credit in this discussion for those assistant coaching accomplishments? Certainly, he was a key contributor to those teams. To be honest, I'm not sure how many of the other candidates have a similarly impressive assistant coaching record, so it may not matter for the others.

My top 5 (in no particular order): Lombardi, Halas, Shula, Brown, and Noll. That leaves Walsh, Madden, Landry, Gibbs, Parcells, and Belicheck in the next group (again, no particular order).

 

[MarshallRob]

My list, in no order:

Belichick

Shula

Lombardi

Paul Brown

Hallas

Hon Mention for Tom Landry, John Madden, and Bill Walsh

Thoughts?

you forgot the guy with 4 Super Bowls, the one that took a 1-13 team and built them into the greatest dynasty ever within 5 years. and he did it without the financial backing that so many other teams have had.

How about this for drafting:

1969 - Joe Greene (HoF), Jon Kolb, L.C. Greenwood

1970 - Terry Bradshaw (HoF), Mel Blount (HoF)

1971 - Jack Ham (HoF), Dwight White, Gerry Mullins, Larry Brown, Ernie Holmes

1972 - Franco (HoF), Steve Furness

1974 - Lynn Swann (HoF), Jack Lambert (HoF), John Stallworth (HoF), Mike Webster (HoF)

1976 - Gary Dunn

1977 - Steve Courson

He drafted half of the original Steel Curtain in his first season. He drafted the other half 2 years later, then drafted the replacements in 72 and 76. He drafted the entire offensive line by 1974 as well as his HoF RB, QB, and 2 WRs.

Oh yeah, he also drafted 2 of the best linebackers in the 1970s within a space of 3 years.

9 HoF draftees within his first 5 years, 4 Super Bowls within his first 10 years. Let's give him some credit.

Noll was a great coach but Art Rooney Jr. was the guy mainly responsible for those drafts. Read about him here

 

[SSOG]

Bill Walsh had only a .609 winning percentage, though he does have those three Bowl victories versus Shula's 2. I guess Chuck Noll is better than Walsh?

How many people run Chuck Noll's offense today. How many people run Bill Walsh's?In my opinion, the #1 guy of all time is Paul Brown. He hits on all three of the big points for me- wins, championships, and innovation. Most of the league uses Walsh's offensive ideas, but ALL of the league uses Brown's (for instance, you know how offensive linemen form a pocket in pass protection? Well, before Brown, they blocked passing plays exactly like running plays).After Brown I go with Walsh (who scores high on championships and innovation if slightly lower on regular season success) and Lombardi (who scores high on regular season success and championships if slightly lower on innovation). These guys are the big 3, and there's a huge gap between them and the rest of the pack.The next tier is a big muddled mess, including guys with a huge body of sustained success, albeit at not as high of a level (Shula, Landry, Halas, Noll), guys with an incredibly high peak but not as much sustained success (Madden, Gibbs- a guy who has a mere 3 mentions so far), and guys who I don't yet have enough distance from to objectively analyze yet (Dungy, Cowher, Belichick). In my opinion, these guys are more or less interchangeable.

 

[dgreen]

guys with an incredibly high peak but not as much sustained success (Madden, Gibbs- a guy who has a mere 3 mentions so far)

What's your definition of "sustained success"?Also, I think Gibbs meets your big three (wins, championships, and innovation). Which one of those three do you think Gibbs doesn't qualify for?

 

[crnerblitz]

Gibbs and its not even close

4 Super Bowls

3 Superbowl wins with 3 different QB's

Only Coach with multi sport Championships to his name.

 

[phthalatemagic]

you forgot the guy with 4 Super Bowls, the one that took a 1-13 team and built them into the greatest dynasty ever within 5 years.

Incorrect.

 

[SSOG]

guys with an incredibly high peak but not as much sustained success (Madden, Gibbs- a guy who has a mere 3 mentions so far)

What's your definition of "sustained success"?Also, I think Gibbs meets your big three (wins, championships, and innovation). Which one of those three do you think Gibbs doesn't qualify for?

I don't have any hard and fast definition, but for starters, it helps to have more career wins than Mike Holmgren.

 

[Jake22]

My list, in no order:BelichickShulaLombardiPaul BrownHallasHon Mention for Tom Landry, John Madden, and Bill WalshThoughts?

you forgot the guy with 4 Super Bowls, the one that took a 1-13 team and built them into the greatest dynasty ever within 5 years. and he did it without the financial backing that so many other teams have had. How about this for drafting:1969 - Joe Greene (HoF), Jon Kolb, L.C. Greenwood1970 - Terry Bradshaw (HoF), Mel Blount (HoF)1971 - Jack Ham (HoF), Dwight White, Gerry Mullins, Larry Brown, Ernie Holmes1972 - Franco (HoF), Steve Furness1974 - Lynn Swann (HoF), Jack Lambert (HoF), John Stallworth (HoF), Mike Webster (HoF)1976 - Gary Dunn1977 - Steve CoursonHe drafted half of the original Steel Curtain in his first season. He drafted the other half 2 years later, then drafted the replacements in 72 and 76. He drafted the entire offensive line by 1974 as well as his HoF RB, QB, and 2 WRs.Oh yeah, he also drafted 2 of the best linebackers in the 1970s within a space of 3 years. 9 HoF draftees within his first 5 years, 4 Super Bowls within his first 10 years. Let's give him some credit.

This is a great post. And makes me wonder why Noll isn't in more top 2's and 3's. There seems to be a bias here that says things like "Bradshaw wasn't really a great QB, he was just a very good QB with a great team." "Swann isn't really a HOF WR. He's a very good receiver who benefitted from the exposure of being on a great team." Etc.There may be some validity to it, but while you can question individual players' accomplishments, I don't see how you can do anything but look back in awe at the architect of the dynasty. Noll created the first post-merger dynasty, and changed professional scouting forever. He was sending scouts to small colleges across the country, scouring for talent, when most personnel depts still scouted by reputation alone. No other coach from that era would have or could have found Joe Green, LC Greenwood, John Stallworth, and others in that era. They simply weren't looking. Noll was the first to see what scouting would become, was the first to capitalize, and from that head start, created a dynasty by his own hand.What more could you want from a coach?Goes right at the top of the discussion with Lombardi and Brown, and is one of the few whose thinking genuinely revolutionized the game.

plus every player i have seen do interviews on those teams has said that Noll was the guy that kept everything together and molded them into the great teams/players they became...