TRADE ISSUE...HAS THIS HAPPENED IN YOUR LEAGUE!? (1 Viewer)

[billjohnson]

12 team--competitive redraft

Our trade deadline was yesterday, and we had a trade (between two very good buddies) that has the natives restless.

Team A gives: Colston, Chris Johnson, Matt Ryan

Team B gives: Cotchery, Thomas Jones, Matt Schaub

Now, can you guess which team is 3-7 and on the brink of the missing the playoffs? And which team is 5-5 and currently holds the final playoff spot?

Does anything need to be done here..other than approve the trade and move on? What fantasy rules can be applied (next year) to hinder guys from "throwing in the towel" and doing trades in week ten that they would never do in week 2?

Thanks all,

Bill

 

[Sinrman]

Bad trade? Yes

Should it be overturned? Not unless it was after the trade deadline

 

[Zab]

Move up your trade deadline would be my best advice.

I think it's clear the intent was to boost Team A's team, however there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[mistersmith]

did your commish say anything about it? or are you the commish? if you are, i'd seriously think about kicking out one of those buddies out of the league.

not much you can do about it this year.

 

[the rover]

Move up your trade deadline would be my best advice.I think it's clear the intent was to boost Team A's team, however there's nothing you can do about it.

you think Team A got better by giving up Colston and Johnson?

 

[cobalt_27]

12 team--competitive redraft

Our trade deadline was yesterday, and we had a trade (between two very good buddies) that has the natives restless.

Team A gives: Colston, Chris Johnson, Matt Ryan

Team B gives: Cotchery, Thomas Jones, Matt Schaub

Now, can you guess which team is 3-7 and on the brink of the missing the playoffs? And which team is 5-5 and currently holds the final playoff spot?

Does anything need to be done here..other than approve the trade and move on? What fantasy rules can be applied (next year) to hinder guys from "throwing in the towel" and doing trades in week ten that they would never do in week 2?

Thanks all,

Bill

Move on, and let it go. Move up your trade deadline next year. Allowing trades this late in the season just begs for stuff like this.

 

[My Hope Street Alias]

Your commish should read and learn from SSOG's remarks quoted in my sig. Overturn that bad boy or, at the very least, ascertain what Team A was thinking.

 

[mistersmith]

Your commish should read and learn from SSOG's remarks quoted in my sig. Overturn that bad boy or, at the very least, ascertain what Team A was thinking.

yeah, i like this better than what i wrote. i'll have to use that in the future.

 

[Limp Ditka]

It's happened before, but never in all caps

 

[wiersface]

Move up your trade deadline would be my best advice.I think it's clear the intent was to boost Team A's team, however there's nothing you can do about it.

you think Team A got better by giving up Colston and Johnson?

thats what i was thinking I wouldnt trade chris johnson for all those dudes plus a bucket o chicken baby whats the status round here

 

[BobbyLayne]

Just in case you missed it last year, this was an all-time classic.

 

[urbanhack]

It's happened before, but never in all caps

lolbrutal

 

[Zab]

Move up your trade deadline would be my best advice.I think it's clear the intent was to boost Team A's team, however there's nothing you can do about it.

you think Team A got better by giving up Colston and Johnson?

My mistake. I misread it. Switch Team A with Team B in my post.

 

[Jeff49]

Though uneven on paper, if I was 3-7 with those players I would want to make a trade to mix things up and hopefully change things in my favor. At 3-7 what would I have to loose, though that's me. If you think the trade was rigged you should contact your commish in your league.'

Jeff49

 

[Anon]

Just in case you missed it last year, this was an all-time classic.

 

[My Hope Street Alias]

Just in case you missed it last year, this was an all-time classic.

Wew, I was worried there for a bit. The thread was over an hour old and nobody from the collusion-only crowd had chimed in with the "nobody can read the future" responses. Bobby Layne has done your side nicely fellows by pulling out an anecdotal example of a supposedly one-sided trade that ended up benefiting the other team. Of course, those examples exist but anyone who doesn't think that there is a 90-95% chance that the other ten teams in this league are getting boned deep and hard by Team A (either thru collusion or because he's a baby because his season didn't turn out well and he wants to make everyone else but Team B pay) doesn't know football or doesn't have enough grey matter.I'll now await the "he paid his money" and "communism" responses.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Just in case you missed it last year, this was an all-time classic.

Wew, I was worried there for a bit. The thread was over an hour old and nobody from the collusion-only crowd had chimed in with the "nobody can read the future" responses. Bobby Layne has done your side nicely fellows by pulling out an anecdotal example of a supposedly one-sided trade that ended up benefiting the other team. Of course, those examples exist but anyone who doesn't think that there is a 90-95% chance that the other ten teams in this league are getting boned deep and hard by Team A (either thru collusion or because he's a baby because his season didn't turn out well and he wants to make everyone else but Team B pay) doesn't know football or doesn't have enough grey matter.I'll now await the "he paid his money" and "communism" responses.

Same poster, 1 year later.The sheer hilarity of last years thread had nothing to do with the ultimate results of the trade.

You could not be further off base here, chief...well, I take that back. But suffice to say you whiffed.

 

[billjohnson]

did your commish say anything about it? or are you the commish? if you are, i'd seriously think about kicking out one of those buddies out of the league.not much you can do about it this year.

I am commish and spent half my day dealing with this. Almost impossible to overturn..but will admit that it compromises the integrity of the league itself. I know these other guys, who have fought hard and paid significant $$$..have a right to be upset...just honestly don't think there is anything I can do.Definitely thought about moving deadline next year...but how far?? Would this be any better if it happened in week 8 with a 2-6 and 6-2 team?? Also, thought about including a clause that if your in the lower 1/3 of the league after week 5 or 6..then your trades must pass a "league vote" type setup. We have a couple grand on the line..and really gonna give the league a black eye if the "winner" in this trade makes it deep in the playoffs..Bill

 

[billjohnson]

Your commish should read and learn from SSOG's remarks quoted in my sig. Overturn that bad boy or, at the very least, ascertain what Team A was thinking.

Understand SSOG logic, but this isn't an ADP for Fargas trade. It is a much better disguised player dump than that and much easier to defend.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

I take my 1/12th vote and veto that in a heartbeat.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Bad trade? YesShould it be overturned? Not unless it was after the trade deadline

that's so wrong

 

[mdlane]

I think at the end of the day the point differential will not be as great as people are predicting. Ryan to Schaub is the largest upgrade in this trade by far - and Schaub has some awesome warm weather and/or dome matchups ahead. I'm really not convinced either side is a clear winner in a redraft.

Revisit this thread week 16.

 

[billjohnson]

I think at the end of the day the point differential will not be as great as people are predicting. Ryan to Schaub is the largest upgrade in this trade by far - and Schaub has some awesome warm weather and/or dome matchups ahead. I'm really not convinced either side is a clear winner in a redraft.Revisit this thread week 16.

I've already looked into that. Based on projections from this site...Team B stands to gain an additional 5.1 points per game (weeks 11-16). Now I know it's not an insane number....but still know there was a little "i have almost no chance..so i'll help you out" involved here. Just virtually impossible to prove....Plus, how often has Chris Johnson been hitting his projections..seems he doubles them every game?? Guy is insane right now..and rbs in our league are hard to come by.Bill

 

[fatness]

Why would anyone overturn this trade? Oh, that's right. It's popular now to think that this week's current player values are etched forever in stone and handed to Moses.

Just in case you missed it last year, this was an all-time classic.

Good example.

 

[billjohnson]

Why would anyone overturn this trade? Oh, that's right. It's popular now to think that this week's current player values are etched forever in stone and handed to Moses.

Just in case you missed it last year, this was an all-time classic.

Good example.

The real question is not whether it should be overturned...but how to stop trades like this from happening in week 11...when it would never have happened in week 5?

 

[PosterNutBag]

Why would anyone overturn this trade? Oh, that's right. It's popular now to think that this week's current player values are etched forever in stone and handed to Moses.

Just in case you missed it last year, this was an all-time classic.

Good example.

The real question is not whether it should be overturned...but how to stop trades like this from happening in week 11...when it would never have happened in week 5?

This trade should not be overturned. I agree it stinks a little, but it's not that ridiculous to overturn considering that Schaub at QB is a lot better than Ryan while the difference b/w Johnson and Jones is a little closer than that. That said, it's clear who got the better deal, but this deal is close enough in value and it looks like the team getting Schaub is getting a much better QB while downgrading a bit at RB, but still having a RB starter who has done well. I am not defending the deal, but rather pointing out that as a commish it doesn't stink that much to warrant overturning it like the OP obviously wants.

 

[habsfan]

Definitely thought about moving deadline next year...but how far?? Would this be any better if it happened in week 8 with a 2-6 and 6-2 team?? Also, thought about including a clause that if your in the lower 1/3 of the league after week 5 or 6..then your trades must pass a "league vote" type setup.

You can't address this with a different deadline because teams are eliminated from contention at different times every year. You'd be chasing your tail.I think things like this comes down to knowing the league and the parties involved to figure out motive. If this happened in my league I would step in. I would rather deal with the potential of being labelled as "controlling" than set the precedent for teams at the bottom of the standings to unload talent like this every year. Maybe there's collusion and maybe there isn't but I would nip it in the bud anyway and accept the fallout.

 

[PosterNutBag]

The real question is not whether it should be overturned...but how to stop trades like this from happening in week 11...when it would never have happened in week 5?

Make your trade deadline before week 11. Most leagues have the deadline be after the week 9 games are played and before the week 10 games are played (i.e. trade deadline is week 10).

 

[Instinctive]

Smells of collusion to me...that means you have hit the only viable reason for not allowing a trade...shoudl eb reversed

 

[billjohnson]

Why would anyone overturn this trade? Oh, that's right. It's popular now to think that this week's current player values are etched forever in stone and handed to Moses.

Just in case you missed it last year, this was an all-time classic.

Good example.

The real question is not whether it should be overturned...but how to stop trades like this from happening in week 11...when it would never have happened in week 5?

This trade should not be overturned. I agree it stinks a little, but it's not that ridiculous to overturn considering that Schaub at QB is a lot better than Ryan while the difference b/w Johnson and Jones is a little closer than that. That said, it's clear who got the better deal, but this deal is close enough in value and it looks like the team getting Schaub is getting a much better QB while downgrading a bit at RB, but still having a RB starter who has done well. I am not defending the deal, but rather pointing out that as a commish it doesn't stink that much to warrant overturning it like the OP obviously wants.

I don't want to overturn it...learned my lesson about that last year. But would like to stop this subtle player dumping as guys start to see they're not making the playoffs...Does anyone have an opinion about the bottom 1/3 of league after week 5/6/7 having to obtain league votes to pass through a trade?

 

[Pantherz]

We have 12 teams who all have a vote to accept or deny a trade for those who wish to respond. The Commish is the tie breaker. In the past, so far only once in 3 years, the Commish merely retraded the players and issued a warning to everyone that if that happened again the teams in the illeagle trade would not only have the trade negated but also forfiet that weeks game.

 

[My Hope Street Alias]

Just in case you missed it last year, this was an all-time classic.

Wew, I was worried there for a bit. The thread was over an hour old and nobody from the collusion-only crowd had chimed in with the "nobody can read the future" responses. Bobby Layne has done your side nicely fellows by pulling out an anecdotal example of a supposedly one-sided trade that ended up benefiting the other team. Of course, those examples exist but anyone who doesn't think that there is a 90-95% chance that the other ten teams in this league are getting boned deep and hard by Team A (either thru collusion or because he's a baby because his season didn't turn out well and he wants to make everyone else but Team B pay) doesn't know football or doesn't have enough grey matter.I'll now await the "he paid his money" and "communism" responses.

Same poster, 1 year later.The sheer hilarity of last years thread had nothing to do with the ultimate results of the trade.

You could not be further off base here, chief...well, I take that back. But suffice to say you whiffed.

Let's see, you referenced a previous thread involving a lopsided trade that had a surprise result in a new thread involving a lopsided trade. I guess I really missed on that one. Look, all I'm saying is there are (rare) times when a lopsided trade has to be overturned even if you can't prove collusion. I'm talking about a general principle here and it doesn't matter to me if billjohnson is fishing or revisiting an old thread or whatever. In an example like the one in this thread we're talking about 10 other guys who've presumably spent a lot of time and some money who will see their efforts undone by cheaters and/or a baby. I'd rather not give complete free rein to the cheaters and babies.

 

[Topes]

Your commish should read and learn from SSOG's remarks quoted in my sig. Overturn that bad boy or, at the very least, ascertain what Team A was thinking.

A little help for folks who don't view sigs?

 

[flranger]

I think at the end of the day the point differential will not be as great as people are predicting. Ryan to Schaub is the largest upgrade in this trade by far - and Schaub has some awesome warm weather and/or dome matchups ahead. I'm really not convinced either side is a clear winner in a redraft.Revisit this thread week 16.

Can't believe no one asked the scoring system as it certainly makes a difference. If it is 6pt TD pass and no PPR I can see this trade being more helpful for the TJones/Schaub receiving team. Flash is not going to keep putting up 37 point weeks, he just won't. Ryan has struggled and may continue to do so with White and Turner dinged up.I'd take the CJ side as being the likely winner.........but it's close enough for me to say move forward. Maybe the other guy is a Jets fan? Hell, I've given up far more in value just to get a player that I like because he's my guy.

 

[Resident A]

That trade is perfectly fair. You guys need to take Chris Johnson's testes out of your mouths.

 

[Utter Chaos]

My redraft league's trading rules.

1. Unlimited deadline until week 10

2. Limited trading deadline until week 12 (Can only trade with teams 2 spots away from you in the overall standings, i.e. 4th place can only trade with 2nd, 3rd, 5th, or 6th)

3. If you have been eliminated from the playoffs you can't trade PERIOD.

4. Five dollar cost for each owner involved in the trade.

 

[Pnishthm]

Bill, maybe you should just find a league that doesn't allow trades

 

[Da Guru]

Our main league has been together for a long time and we have an unwritten rule. A team that is totally out of it does not trade with a contender.

The first few years we had buddies dumping good players to each other if they were out of it, we put an end to that.

 

[Pnishthm]

Why would anyone overturn this trade? Oh, that's right. It's popular now to think that this week's current player values are etched forever in stone and handed to Moses.

Just in case you missed it last year, this was an all-time classic.

Good example.

The real question is not whether it should be overturned...but how to stop trades like this from happening in week 11...when it would never have happened in week 5?

This trade should not be overturned. I agree it stinks a little, but it's not that ridiculous to overturn considering that Schaub at QB is a lot better than Ryan while the difference b/w Johnson and Jones is a little closer than that. That said, it's clear who got the better deal, but this deal is close enough in value and it looks like the team getting Schaub is getting a much better QB while downgrading a bit at RB, but still having a RB starter who has done well. I am not defending the deal, but rather pointing out that as a commish it doesn't stink that much to warrant overturning it like the OP obviously wants.

I don't want to overturn it...learned my lesson about that last year. But would like to stop this subtle player dumping as guys start to see they're not making the playoffs...Does anyone have an opinion about the bottom 1/3 of league after week 5/6/7 having to obtain league votes to pass through a trade?

I'm in a league where it's $25 a loss and $50 a loss for the last 3 weeks. Something along these lines (comparable with the league entry fee) will keep teams from dumping at any time.

 

[My Hope Street Alias]

Why would anyone overturn this trade? Oh, that's right. It's popular now to think that this week's current player values are etched forever in stone and handed to Moses.

Just in case you missed it last year, this was an all-time classic.

Good example.

Well, you can definitely carry this line of thought to any extreme. You can use it to justify the Fargas for AP trade in my sig, too. Or even much worse. I'd prefer my commish to step in and investigate, at the very least.

 

[Ned]

COLLUSION

 

[Balance]

Just in case you missed it last year, this was an all-time classic.

 

[My Hope Street Alias]

Definitely thought about moving deadline next year...but how far?? Would this be any better if it happened in week 8 with a 2-6 and 6-2 team?? Also, thought about including a clause that if your in the lower 1/3 of the league after week 5 or 6..then your trades must pass a "league vote" type setup.

You can't address this with a different deadline because teams are eliminated from contention at different times every year. You'd be chasing your tail.I think things like this comes down to knowing the league and the parties involved to figure out motive. If this happened in my league I would step in. I would rather deal with the potential of being labelled as "controlling" than set the precedent for teams at the bottom of the standings to unload talent like this every year. Maybe there's collusion and maybe there isn't but I would nip it in the bud anyway and accept the fallout.

 

[JackSlap]

As I've heard others do as well, my leagues hold a Pooper Bowl for teams that don't make the playoffs. The winner of this consolation bracket gets the #1 draft pick next season. Draft order is then predicated on W-L record in reverse order, with the Super Bowl winner with the last pick of the first round. So hopefully some small incentive to remain competitive...

 

[GridironMenace]

did your commish say anything about it? or are you the commish? if you are, i'd seriously think about kicking out one of those buddies out of the league.not much you can do about it this year.

I am commish and spent half my day dealing with this. Almost impossible to overturn..but will admit that it compromises the integrity of the league itself. I know these other guys, who have fought hard and paid significant $$$..have a right to be upset...just honestly don't think there is anything I can do.Definitely thought about moving deadline next year...but how far?? Would this be any better if it happened in week 8 with a 2-6 and 6-2 team?? Also, thought about including a clause that if your in the lower 1/3 of the league after week 5 or 6..then your trades must pass a "league vote" type setup. We have a couple grand on the line..and really gonna give the league a black eye if the "winner" in this trade makes it deep in the playoffs..Bill

What I would do is make the trade deadline the Wednesday after week 8. Trades from week 1 up to week 6, all teams can make a trade with anyone they choose. Then from week 7 through the Wednesday after week 8 , teams can only trade with other teams right next to them in the standings. So if your winning percentage puts you in 4th place, you can only trade with the teams in 3rd and 5th place. 1st place can only trade with 2nd place etc... This makes it so dump trades won't really happen because you are forced to trade with your competition.

 

[John Windle]

This is why we have a toilet bowl in my league. While the playoffs are going on, for every team that doesn't make the playoffs we take their cumulative score for the three week playoff period, and high score gets their entry money ($100) back.

 

[DropKick]

Significant money on the line? Check.

Team out of contention? Check.

Guys are buddies? Check.

Redraft, no long term justification for the deal? Check.

Lopsided on paper? Probably - but close enough to be debatable.

I shoot this one down as commish with the main issue being talent dumping from an owner who has "no skin in the game". I know people can argue both sides of this and there are circumstances (like an injury) that could change the interpretation of the deal. Somebody will be unhappy no matter what the commish does... If you allow the deal and Team B goes on to win the league, you will have ten very upset owners who will feel cheated. That could take the fun out of the league for a long time. It also sets a horrible precedent. If you overturn the deal and it prevents B from taking the title, you will have one upset owner. If B's only means to winning the league is a cherry picking deal from someone out of contention, I wouldn't think too much of the complaint.

You need an earlier trade deadline. Yes, people could be throwing in the towel after eight weeks, but the probability is much less.

eta: A's and B's... doh

 

[My Hope Street Alias]

Significant money on the line? Check.

Team out of contention? Check.

Guys are buddies? Check.

Redraft, no long term justification for the deal? Check.

Lopsided on paper? Probably - but close enough to be debatable.

I shoot this one down as commish with the main issue being talent dumping from an owner who has "no skin in the game". I know people can argue both sides of this and there are circumstances (like an injury) that could change the interpretation of the deal. Somebody will be unhappy no what the commish does... If you allow the deal and Team A goes on to win the league, you will have ten very upset owners who will feel cheated. That could take the fun out of the league for a long time. It also sets a horrible precedent. If you overturn the deal and it prevents A from taking the title, you will have one upset owner. If A's only means to winning the league is a cherry picking deal from someone out of contention, I wouldn't think too much of the complaint. You need an earlier trade deadline. Yes, people could be throwing in the towel after eight weeks, but the probability is much less.

I think you mean Team B but, other than that, this is beautifully put.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

This is why we have a toilet bowl in my league. While the playoffs are going on, for every team that doesn't make the playoffs we take their cumulative score for the three week playoff period, and high score gets their entry money ($100) back.

We don't have a toilet bowl, but do have weekely payouts for high team & high player - hit both of these a couple of times & you win your entry back. I'm really blessed in that I have a great group of guys in this league & don't even worry about this kind of thing.Besides the weekly payouts for good performances, you may want to add weekly penalties also for bad scores. I think either or both would be much more effective than moving the trade deadline.As for the trade itself, I don't think it's all that bad (certainly seen worse posted here in the last couple of weeks).

 

[Limp Ditka]

This is why we have a toilet bowl in my league. While the playoffs are going on, for every team that doesn't make the playoffs we take their cumulative score for the three week playoff period, and high score gets their entry money ($100) back.

We don't have a toilet bowl, but do have weekely payouts for high team & high player - hit both of these a couple of times & you win your entry back. I'm really blessed in that I have a great group of guys in this league & don't even worry about this kind of thing.Besides the weekly payouts for good performances, you may want to add weekly penalties also for bad scores. I think either or both would be much more effective than moving the trade deadline.As for the trade itself, I don't think it's all that bad (certainly seen worse posted here in the last couple of weeks).

H2H league and we knock down the entry fee a bit and charge weekly loser fees. You lose your H2H game, you add to the pot.