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Transgender boy Mack Beggs wins Texas state girls' wrestling title (1 Viewer)

From the link above..

"UIL deputy director says they never received a request to change divisions from any athlete in this competition"

 
Just to show I am consistent, if there was some fluky rule that because of my February 29th leap year birthday, I could play Little League baseball at 36 years old, I would not be proud of myself if I led the league in home runs. Sometimes you just gotta sit it out if it's going to make the playing field unlevel.

 
mr roboto said:
In this case the rules gave her an advantage. Not her fault for competing in the events they allowed her to enter. 

But the larger point I think people struggle with is the transgendered or transitioning teens are like .01% of the population and now systems based on binary physiological gender/sex need to change or be rethought to accommodate.

In the case of restrooms I believe it's necessary. I guess I'm not sure about sports. 
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Current estimates are that the transgender population is .6% of our population in the U.S., and it skews young. 

That's about the same number of people as there are Hindus in the U.S.

 
Jobber said:
They're practicing good sportsmamship. Something the winner doesn't know anything about.
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Following the rules set by the state when one is given no other choice is not practicing good sportsmanship? But refusing to participate at all is? Okie Dokie.

 
squistion said:
Following the rules set by the state when one is given no other choice is not practicing good sportsmanship? But refusing to participate at all is? Okie Dokie.
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Lay off the testosterone and it's an even playing field. He had an enourmous advantage. And further, if he wants to be a man, act like a man and don't stand atop 56 girls you demolished on your way to a trophy.

 
squistion said:
Following the rules set by the state when one is given no other choice is not practicing good sportsmanship? But refusing to participate at all is? Okie Dokie.
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I disagree with the "no choice" part and I also think there's a difference between following the rules and taking advantage of them. If he truly identifies as a boy then wrestling girls IS poor sportsmanship imo.

 
Jobber said:
Lay off the testosterone and it's an even playing field. He had an enourmous advantage. And further, if he wants to be a man, act like a man and don't stand atop 56 girls you demolished on your way to a trophy.
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Hey, transgender, if you can't act like a man or how I define that a man should act, then you shouldn't compete at all, even though you have no choice under the rules.

 
The rules obviously needed some flexibility. The girls got screwed because they had to wrestle a boy. The boy got screwed because they were forced to wrestle girls and never got to really reach his fullest potential.

 
Jobber said:
Lay off the testosterone and it's an even playing field. He had an enourmous advantage. And further, if he wants to be a man, act like a man and don't stand atop 56 girls you demolished on your way to a trophy.
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Everyone's acting as if this kid had no choice but to start this testosterone transition while he was still in high school. It's her dream was to be some kind of great wrestler and wanted to compete in high school, the rules were in place back then. Wrestling season is over now. She could have started her injections right now. And no one would be bashing the dude. This was his choice. And if he had such a huge rush to become a dude, then he should have made the sacrifice to give up high school wrestling rather than beat up on a bunch of girls.

 
Jobber said:
Lay off the testosterone and it's an even playing field. He had an enourmous advantage. And further, if he wants to be a man, act like a man and don't stand atop 56 girls you demolished on your way to a trophy.
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I don't know.  We frequently feel good about ourselves in here when we discuss dominating midgets and kindergarteners in sporting events and death matches.  I believe it may fall within the definition of acting like a man to be proud, on some level, of pyrrhic victories.

 
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JuniorNB said:
Everyone's acting as if this kid had no choice but to start this testosterone transition while he was still in high school. It's her dream was to be some kind of great wrestler and wanted to compete in high school, the rules were in place back then. Wrestling season is over now. She could have started her injections right now. And no one would be bashing the dude. This was his choice. And if he had such a huge rush to become a dude, then he should have made the sacrifice to give up high school wrestling rather than beat up on a bunch of girls.
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As far as how the kid's body and face are eventually going to turn out looking, it really is better to start earlier for transition. 

 
the moops said:
soon enough 98% of girl high school wrestlers are going to be boys
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Are you suggesting they will express a sincere enough belief to get a Doctor to prescribe, or are you suggesting that there are sufficient doctors who are jaded enough to not care and to just prescribe testosterone to young women.

BTW, can we please find some East German Olympians from th eearly 80's to share their experiences in this thread.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
http://nypost.com/2017/02/26/transgender-boy-booed-cheered-after-wrestling-title-he-didnt-want/

So the kids parents say he wanted to wrestle boys but wasn't allowed. 

The deputy director says they didn't receive a request from anyone to change divisions.

Unless I'm missing something here neither the athlete or his family made an attempt to compete against males
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They're both right if he tried to sign up as a boy and was told he had to compete as a girl. 

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
So did this athlete try to get placed in the male division or not?
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I read it as no, Mack did not try to get placed in the male division. In fairness, though, that may be kind of a deceptive (possibly dumb) comment on the part of the UIL. If the rules say by birth certificate and Mack had wrestled against girls all season (feeling that was his only option IF he wanted to wrestle), there may have been zero reason to ask at state tourney time to switch. 

ETA: based the above on this quote: "UIL deputy director says they never received a request to change divisions from any athlete in this competition"

I interpreted competition as the State Tourney but he could have meant the entire season culminating with the championship  :shrug:

 
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 "nothing that has happened this yr has the UIL reconsidering it's rules because frankly we don't believe that any of the issues being reported on are a product of the UIL rules".

This quote along with the quote that said they didn't receive any requests to change divisions leads me to believe that neither the wrestler or his parents made a request to move to the male division.

Someone tell me where I'm wrong 

 
squistion said:
Not at all. He wasn't allowed to compete against the boys so, per state of TX, his choices were limited to either competing against the girls or not competing at all.
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Apology accepted.

Just curious - would anyone's opinion in here change if it was learned he competed last year against girls, as a girl, and came in 2nd in the state? Or at least reached the wrestling equivalent of the sweet 16?

Does anyone know how high he ranked last year?

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
Apology accepted.

Just curious - would anyone's opinion in here change if it was learned he competed last year against girls, as a girl, and came in 2nd in the state? Or at least reached the wrestling equivalent of the sweet 16?

Does anyone know how high he ranked last year?
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That wasn't an apology.

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
Apology accepted.

Just curious - would anyone's opinion in here change if it was learned he competed last year against girls, as a girl, and came in 2nd in the state? Or at least reached the wrestling equivalent of the sweet 16?

Does anyone know how high he ranked last year?
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Beggs has been on testosterone since October, 2015 apparently, so no.  

It also clarifies the league's statements - no, I bet no one did try to change divisions this year. That battle would have been fought a year and a half ago.

 
So Mack started taking testosterone treatments in 2015.  That would mean at age either 15 or 16, are there any laws regarding someone being a certain age before starting these types of treatments?

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
So Mack started taking testosterone treatments in 2015.  That would mean at age either 15 or 16, are there any laws regarding someone being a certain age before starting these types of treatments?
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I don't think any doctor would prescribe them before puberty, but I've seen kids who started at 14.

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
So Mack started taking testosterone treatments in 2015.  That would mean at age either 15 or 16, are there any laws regarding someone being a certain age before starting these types of treatments?
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Was wondering same thing. I mean, we make it so someone has to be at least 18 before they can vote, enlist in military, gamble, buy a tin of Kodiak, etc yet we allow someone to start a physical gender transformation a couple years ahead of those things? Hell, someone can't get into an R movie until 17 (at least, not without a parent).

Maybe when people know they know. Just seems like this is a pretty major change happening at an age where most people are just trying to figure out who they are and how it all works.

 
whiskey7 said:
Was wondering same thing. I mean, we make it so someone has to be at least 18 before they can vote, enlist in military, gamble, buy a tin of Kodiak, etc yet we allow someone to start a physical gender transformation a couple years ahead of those things? Hell, someone can't get into an R movie until 17 (at least, not without a parent).

Maybe when people know they know. Just seems like this is a pretty major change happening at an age where most people are just trying to figure out who they are and how it all works.
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Yeah, the big issue is usually the male to female transition - without starting treatments early the physical differences are unbelievable. It's not quite as big a deal with female to male, but it is still a difference.  I don't know about the changes to the *ahem* important parts, but given that there are people in the world who suddenly develop male genitalia at puberty that may make a big difference too.

 
Henry Ford said:
Know a lot of sophomores who have won a state championship?
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Every year - at least here in Nebraska - there are a handful of kids who complete 4 year state championships (all 4 years winning a championship), so I would say there are more than a handful that win state championships as Sophomores. Look especially at the lower weight classes where the majority of wrestlers are underclassmen.

That said winning ANY state championship at any level in any year is impressive.

 
Mr. Know-It-All said:
Every year - at least here in Nebraska - there are a handful of kids who complete 4 year state championships (all 4 years winning a championship), so I would say there are more than a handful that win state championships as Sophomores. Look especially at the lower weight classes where the majority of wrestlers are underclassmen.

That said winning ANY state championship at any level in any year is impressive.
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I agree.  So is a 40-9 record wrestling as a sophomore, admittedly on a lesser level.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
I'm not sure how common or uncommon it is.

I've never heard of a boy winning a girl's title before this year either though 
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I think everyone probably found it funny when he needed to compete against girls and came in 8th. Haha.  Nice try - you'll never be a real boy, Pinocchio. We aren't changing the rules. 

Now, though, it's a big deal because he worked his butt off and got really good in addition to the testosterone.  Now they're filing lawsuits.  

 
Henry Ford said:
I agree.  So is a 40-9 record wrestling as a sophomore, admittedly on a lesser level.
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Just to follow up - looked it up 10 Sophomores won gold, 2 freshmen - considering there are 14 weight classes (I think) and 4 classes, that means 12 of 56 were won by underclassmen.  A few years ago we had a girl make it all the way to the finals at 106 in the largest class.  Pretty freaking impressive.

 
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