Transgender boy Mack Beggs wins Texas state girls' wrestling title (1 Viewer)

[SacramentoBob]

I think we can all agree it's pretty rare for a man to win a women's championship as a sophomore.

 

[Henry Ford]

Just to follow up - looked it up 10 Sophomores won gold, 2 freshmen - considering there are 14 weight classes (I think) and 4 classes, that means 12 of 56 were won by underclassmen.

Very impressive.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I think everyone probably found it funny when he needed to compete against girls and came in 8th. Haha.  Nice try - you'll never be a real boy, Pinocchio. We aren't changing the rules. 

Now, though, it's a big deal because he worked his butt off and got really good in addition to the testosterone.  Now they're filing lawsuits.  

Maybe.

I'm not familiar enough with transgender teens to know for sure, but I imagine he didn't look like a muscular dude last season either. That may have something to do with why he lost then too

 

[Henry Ford]

Maybe.

I'm not familiar enough with transgender teens to know for sure, but I imagine he didn't look like a muscular dude last season either. That may have something to do with why he lost then too

Maybe.  But either way the league should fix this. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I think we can all agree it's pretty rare for a man to win a women's championship as a sophomore.

For now anyway

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Maybe.  But either way the league should fix this. 

I think we all agree with this.

If only just to satisfy my own curiosity id like to know if he or his family made an actual attempt to wrestle in the male division or just said "the rule says it's by birth gender so I'm wrestling in the girls division this yr"

 

[Da Guru]

I am sure he will be getting a congrats call from Bruce Jenner.

 

[mr roboto]

I'm just saying we're talking about 60x as many people as your post suggested. 

Ok. I'm still not sure if a non-binary gender understanding fits real well with HS sports participation. 

 

[SacramentoBob]

Pretty easy way to fix this.  Compete in the division of your birth gender.  No medical exceptions for PEDs.

 

[Henry Ford]

Pretty easy way to fix this.  Compete in the division of your birth gender.  No medical exceptions for PEDs.

So transgender teens cannot participate in sports. 

 

[mr roboto]

So transgender teens cannot participate in sports. 

Why?  I'm genuinely missing something here. 

 

[Henry Ford]

Why?  I'm genuinely missing something here. 

Because "PEDs" in this case include hormone injections necessary to the transition. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Why?  I'm genuinely missing something here. 

What it really would mean is that girls transitioning to boys with testosterone would not be able to compete.

 

[squistion]

So transgender teens cannot participate in sports. 

That is the bottom line as to what they want, although they don't always just come out and say it.

 

[Dr Oadi]

What it really would mean is that girls transitioning to boys with testosterone would not be able to compete.

What's more important to them? Becoming the gender they feel they are or HS sports? 

But it it's not faiiiirrrrrr. 

Neither is it fair to the other 99.9% they compete against who aren't juiced. 

 

[mr roboto]

Got it. 

So they couldn't participate in the HS State Sports Association sanctioned sports. They could still play in private leagues, intramurals etc though. 

 Maybe require a doctors note signifying that the "transition" is nearly complete or something so that their gender could be reclassified for purposes of enrolling in sports. 

 

[Ilov80s]

What's more important to them? Becoming the gender they feel they are or HS sports? 

But it it's not faiiiirrrrrr. 

Neither is it fair to the other 99.9% they compete against who aren't juiced. 

I can get behind this. I'm not sure what the max testosterone level for a natural teen female is, but I'm ok with setting some type of cutoff. 

 

[Henry Ford]

What it really would mean is that girls transitioning to boys with testosterone would not be able to compete.

Many drugs and/or hormones used in male to female transitions are also on the banned PED list for various sports. Sometimes as masking agents like finasteride. 

 

[Henry Ford]

Got it. 

So they couldn't participate in the HS State Sports Association sanctioned sports. They could still play in private leagues, intramurals etc though. 

 Maybe require a doctors note signifying that the "transition" is nearly complete or something so that their gender could be reclassified for purposes of enrolling in sports. 

The NCAA has rules. They could adopt those. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Got it. 

So they couldn't participate in the HS State Sports Association sanctioned sports. They could still play in private leagues, intramurals etc though. 

 Maybe require a doctors note signifying that the "transition" is nearly complete or something so that their gender could be reclassified for purposes of enrolling in sports. 

Henry Ford was just responding to the idea they have to compete in the gender they were born into. That's not necessarily the rule for all high school sports everywhere. 

 

[Henry Ford]

What's more important to them? Becoming the gender they feel they are or HS sports? 

But it it's not faiiiirrrrrr. 

Neither is it fair to the other 99.9% they compete against who aren't juiced. 

So let him compete against boys, who have been juiced for 15 more years. 

 

[JuniorNB]

I think everyone probably found it funny when he needed to compete against girls and came in 8th. Haha.  Nice try - you'll never be a real boy, Pinocchio. We aren't changing the rules. 

Now, though, it's a big deal because he worked his butt off and got really good in addition to the testosterone.  Now they're filing lawsuits.  

In its sophomore year, the testosterone was just starting to have a effect. It's not immediate. Wrestling starts around thanksgiving. Steroids were started in October.  By the junior year, he was fully roided-up and had a man's testosterone level. I'm sure he worked his butt off, but so did the other girls who made it that far. I'd love to see him wrestle the boys state champ at 1:10.

 

[Henry Ford]

In its sophomore year, the testosterone was just starting to have a effect. It's not immediate. Wrestling starts around thanksgiving. Steroids were started in October.  By the junior year, he was fully roided-up and had a man's testosterone level. I'm sure he worked his butt off, but so did the other girls who made it that far. I'd love to see him wrestle the boys state champ at 1:10.

Me too.  Bet he would, too.

 

[JuniorNB]

So let him compete against boys, who have been juiced for 15 more years. 

Inaccurate. Testosterone is even until puberty. So boys may have been juiced one or two more years. 

 

[JuniorNB]

Me too.  Bet he would, too.

I highly doubt that. 

 

[St. Louis Bob]

From the thread title, first thing I thought of.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

So let him compete against boys, who have been juiced for 15 more years. 

It's not difficult to see who the lawyer is in this thread.

No offense

 

[Ilov80s]

Many drugs and/or hormones used in male to female transitions are also on the banned PED list for various sports. Sometimes as masking agents like finasteride. 

This is definitely too complicated for me but there has to be a better solution. What are the NCAA rules?

 

[Henry Ford]

Inaccurate. Testosterone is even until puberty. So boys may have been juiced one or two more years. 

Inaccurate.  Until 5 months old, boys have significantly higher testosterone, then it's even until about age 9 actually.

 

[Henry Ford]

This is definitely too complicated for me but there has to be a better solution. What are the NCAA rules?

Once you're on hormone treatments for one year you move to the other gender.  Lots of other bits to that, but that's the big one. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

That is the bottom line as to what they want, although they don't always just come out and say it.

You honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[mr roboto]

Once you're on hormone treatments for one year you move to the other gender.  [bLots of other bits [/b]to that, but that's the big one. 

I see what you did there...

 

[Ilov80s]

Once you're on hormone treatments for one year you move to the other gender.  Lots of other bits to that, but that's the big one. 

For the switch from male to female, how much of a change in muscle mass, body composition, etc. takes place from a year of treatment?

 

[squistion]

You honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

Says the guy who refuses to discuss the transgender rest room issue because he claims it is irrelevant an unrelated issue to the OP.

 

[Henry Ford]

For the switch from male to female, how much of a change in muscle mass, body composition, etc. takes place from a year of treatment?

It's pretty unbelievable, actually.  I can't say it's fully finished after a year - I think international competition requires two - but I'd expect Michael Jordan to be pretty close to Lisa Leslie in a year. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Says the guy who refuses to discuss the transgender rest room issue because he claims it is irrelevant an unrelated issue to the OP.

It is irrelevant and totally unrelated to the OP.

Stop digging

 

[JuniorNB]

Inaccurate.  Until 5 months old, boys have significantly higher testosterone, then it's even until about age 9 actually.

So where did you get 15 years from?

 

[Moe.]

Does the NCAA or any other organization have a different set of rules for men transitioning into women as they do for women transitioning into men? Birth certificate or gtfo seems too simplistic for this stuff.

 

[whiskey7]

What it really would mean is that girls transitioning to boys with testosterone would not be able to compete.

And rightly so, right? At the point a person goes to a medical professional and says (despite my female genitalia) I am a boy and I want you to help me physically become a boy, they are (or should be) waiving their right to compete in events limited to girls, no?

I suspect it varies by state, but here in MN, a girl can go out for a boy's team if the school does not offer that sport as a girls sport. For example, a girl can go out for football because no schools (that I know of) offer girl's football as a school sport. It doesn't work the same the other way, though. If a guy wants to play volleyball but the school does not offer boy's volleyball, he can't play on the girl's team. Along these lines, perhaps the rule in TX should be amended to include the option for a girl (based on birth cert) undergoing gender change treatment has the option to compete in the boy's division? Of course, then the argument changes from it being wrong that girls have to compete against a boy to its wrong that boys are having to compete against a girl. There are always those who don't feel right about that (understandably so). 

 

[Henry Ford]

So where did you get 15 years from?

Because I was being flippant in a pretty obviously sarcastic statement.  

He wasn't juicing, he's on a medical treatment regimen.

 

[Henry Ford]

Does the NCAA or any other organization have a different set of rules for men transitioning into women as they do for women transitioning into men? Birth certificate or gtfo seems too simplistic for this stuff.

I think it's the same for both genders' transitions with the NCAA, but it isn't a birth certificate or GTFO issue. 

 

[squistion]

It is irrelevant and totally unrelated to the OP.

Stop digging

Issues are pretty much the same, transgender being allowed to use of the rest room of the gender he or she has transitioned to, versus a transgender being able to participate in the gender of the sport he or he has transitioned to. - but you can't admit that because you would not find it acceptable for Mack Beggs, as he currently appears to walk into any female restroom even though no one (who saw him) would classify him as female.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

He wasn't juicing, he's on a medical treatment regimen. Elective, not doctor prescribed for a medical condition

Fyp

Big difference as far as sports eligibility goes imo

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Issues are pretty much the same, transgender being allowed to use of the rest room of the gender he or she has transitioned to, versus a transgender being able to participate in the gender of the sport he or he has transitioned to. - but you can't admit that because you would not find it acceptable for Mack Beggs, as he currently appears to walk into any female restroom even though no one (who saw him) would classify him as female.

We 're discussing eligibility in high school sports in here.

If I ever want to discuss transgender bathroom issues with you I'll hit you up in that thread. Don't hold your breath

 

[MaxThreshold]

How do women feel about this?

 

[Henry Ford]

Fyp

Big difference as far as sports eligibility goes imo

You should tell the medical board that these drugs aren't being prescribed by a doctor for a medical condition and protest every doctor's license who's prescribed them ever. 

 

[whiskey7]

Issues are pretty much the same, transgender being allowed to use of the rest room of the gender he or she has transitioned to, versus a transgender being able to participate in the gender of the sport he or he has transitioned to. - but you can't admit that because you would not find it acceptable for Mack Beggs, as he currently appears to walk into any female restroom even though no one (who saw him) would classify him as female.

Issues are related but not same. Boy and girl using same restroom and/or changing in the same locker room <> boy physically competing against girl for championship trophy. 

 

[squistion]

We 're discussing eligibility in high school sports in here.

If I ever want to discuss transgender bathroom issues with you I'll hit you up in that thread. Don't hold your breath

Which is related to other transgender issues and rights. You want to compartmentalize it to avoid discussing the rest room issue, but you don't set the rules around here and in the OP there were no restrictions placed to limit the discussion to high school sports exclusively or not discuss related and similar transgender issues.

 

[MaxThreshold]

We 're discussing eligibility in high school sports in here.

If I ever want to discuss transgender bathroom issues with you I'll hit you up in that thread. Don't hold your breath

i don't know if you're aware of this, but that's been PRIORITY #1 with progressives.  Get with the plan already.

 

[Moe.]

I think it's the same for both genders' transitions with the NCAA, but it isn't a birth certificate or GTFO issue. 

Understood, just commenting that the UIL's rule seems like a really short-sighted way to look at it. A kid could complete a transition entirely and still have to compete under the sex on the birth certificate.

This all sort of makes my head hurt, and I don't mean that to be insensitive. I could see a future in which women's sports are dominated by transitioning men, which doesn't seem right. Seems like they could look at one differently than the other.