Transgender boy Mack Beggs wins Texas state girls' wrestling title (1 Viewer)

[MikeIke]

So let me get this straight.  This person was born with female genitalia. This person identifies as a male and wants to be accepted as male by society. However,  because of the stance that the genitals you're born with decide who you are,  this person was forced to compete as a female,  because this person has female genitalia. 

And now certain segments are up in arms that this person was competing  against other people with the same genitalia,  and this person won? 

You can't have it both ways.  Let this person compete against boys,  or girls. But,  if you force this person to compete against girls,  don't complain that this person should have been competing against boys,  despite the genitalia this person was born with. 

The whole thing makes my head spin. 

 

[Henry Ford]

Because she's a girl.

Who is?  This kid? https://sportsdaydfw.imgix.net/1487980744-NS_24MackBeggsB15.jpg

 

[jabarony]

I'm surprised how many normally reasonable fbgs are performing mental gymnastics to try to side with the LGBT.

It is odd.  Just because you support LGBT doesn't mean you have to support every single LGBT person in every single situation. 

 

[Henry Ford]

So let me get this straight.  This person was born with female genitalia. This person identifies as a male and wants to be accepted as male by society. However,  because of the stance that the genitals you're born with decide who you are,  this person was forced to compete as a female,  because this person has female genitalia. 

And now certain segments are up in arms that this person was competing  against other people with the same genitalia,  and this person won? 

You can't have it both ways.  Let this person compete against boys,  or girls. But,  if you force this person to compete against girls,  don't complain that this person should have been competing against boys,  despite the genitalia this person was born with. 

The whole thing makes my head spin. 

Precisely. 

 

[Henry Ford]

I'm surprised how many normally reasonable fbgs are performing mental gymnastics to try to side with the LGBT.

I'm surprised at how many fbgs are claiming Liberals whine about things not being fair while similtaneously arguing this person should be excluded from all sports because this isn't fair. 

 

[T J]

Who is?  This kid? https://sportsdaydfw.imgix.net/1487980744-NS_24MackBeggsB15.jpg

Yep. She shouldn't be allowed to wrestle either gender. A consequence of her transgendering.

 

[Henry Ford]

Yep. She shouldn't be allowed to wrestle either gender. A consequence of her transgendering.

You certainly have plenty of people here who agree with you.  

 

[Sand]

Yep. She shouldn't be allowed to wrestle either gender. A consequence of her transgendering.

Really she should have just not gotten a TUE for the testosterone.  That's way, way over the line.  

ETA:  As a female the T in her system will provide a permanent physical advantage.  

 

[Short Corner]

Pretty easy way to fix this.  Compete in the division of your birth gender.  No medical exceptions for PEDs.

So if a kid has a disease like Lupus they are not allowed to compete?

 

[T J]

You certainly have plenty of people here who agree with you.  

 Haven't read the thread. Only replied to your comment on page 1 which kicked me to the last page. But if a bunch of people agree, then good. BS if you ask me.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Who is?  This kid? https://sportsdaydfw.imgix.net/1487980744-NS_24MackBeggsB15.jpg

A girl jacked full of T

 

[Henry Ford]

So if a kid has a disease like Lupus they are not allowed to compete?

No exceptions.  

 

[Henry Ford]

A girl jacked full of T

There we go.  Usually just takes one person unwilling to use preferred pronouns to bring out the real opinions from everyone else. 

 

[Henry Ford]

 Haven't read the thread. Only replied to your comment on page 1 which kicked me to the last page. But if a bunch of people agree, then good. BS if you ask me.

I'll refrain from asking, then. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

There we go.  Usually just takes one person unwilling to use preferred pronouns to bring out the real opinions from everyone else. 

You posted a pic that said who is this? I said that's a girl pumped full of testosterone. 

Which part was incorrect?

 

[Henry Ford]

You posted a pic that said who is this? I said that's a girl pumped full of testosterone. 

Which part was incorrect?

You're missing some punctuation and words in the quote from me. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

So let me get this straight.  This person was born with female genitalia. This person identifies as a male and wants to be accepted as male by society. However,  because of the stance that the genitals you're born with decide who you are,  this person was forced to compete as a female,  because this person has female genitalia. 

And now certain segments are up in arms that this person was competing  against other people with the same genitalia,  and this person won? 

You can't have it both ways.  Let this person compete against boys,  or girls. But,  if you force this person to compete against girls,  don't complain that this person should have been competing against boys,  despite the genitalia this person was born with. 

The whole thing makes my head spin. 

That's the problem. Something tells me legally texas couldn't have a rule that said males transitioning to females cant compete against females and then also say females transitioning to males that are taking performance enhancing treatments/drugs have to compete against males. 

The rule stating you had to compete based on your birth certificate was probably their view of the lesser of two evils. 

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

this person was forced to compete as a female

Oh Jesus Christ.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

You're missing some punctuation and words in the quote from me. 

Missed the fact you quoted someone and were engaged with them.  I apologize for that.

 

[Ilov80s]

I feel like people might have different opinions if they actually knew transgendered kids. Changing genders in high school is about the most difficult thing a person could choose to do. They are just normal people trying to make sense of themselves and their place in the world. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Oh Jesus Christ.

:Slapsforehead:

 

[EYLive]

Some of these arguments are so desperate and awful, it's embarrassing. I'm losing a ton of respect for quite a number of people. It's like you're not even living in the real world.

 

[Henry Ford]

Missed the fact you quoted someone and were engaged with them.  I apologize for that.

No worries. 

 

[JuniorNB]

Oh Jesus Christ.

It's crazy, right? And who forced this chick to start pumping herself full of testosterone? She could have waited till after her high school wrestling career. I would hope they did enough research beforehand and new that they were not going to let him compete as a male. At that point, he made the decision to proceed with the testosterone therapy. Let's not pretend this boy is a victim

 

[Henry Ford]

Some of these arguments are so desperate and awful, it's embarrassing. I'm losing a ton of respect for quite a number of people. It's like you're not even living in the real world.

Yeah, me too.

 

[Henry Ford]

It's crazy, right? And who forced this chick to start pumping herself full of testosterone? She could have waited till after her high school wrestling career. I would hope they did enough research beforehand and new that they were not going to let him compete as a male. At that point, he made the decision to proceed with the testosterone therapy. Let's not pretend this boy is a victim

There are significant downsides to waiting on hormone therapy. It's important to move forward early if certain. 

 

[Short Corner]

Because she's a girl.

:whoosh:

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Changing genders in high school is about the most difficult thing a person could choose to do.  

For 56 girls, wrestling a boy appears to be pretty difficult as well.

 

[JuniorNB]

There are significant downsides to waiting on hormone therapy. It's important to move forward early if certain. 

All things to take into consideration, I guess. Bruce Jenner did it at 50. I don't think waiting until 17 would screw up the plan.

 

[squistion]

All things to take into consideration, I guess. Bruce Jenner did it at 50. I don't think waiting until 17 would screw up the plan.

 

 

[Sand]

There are significant downsides to waiting on hormone therapy. It's important to move forward early if certain. 

Be that as it may the addition of significant amounts of T to her system gave her musculature a massive advantage.  There is simply no way to create an even playing field here - the TUE was a terrible decision and wouldn't have been made in any professional or amateur sport (out of HS) that I'm aware of. 

 

[Ditka Butkus]

So let me get this straight.  This person was born with female genitalia. This person identifies as a male and wants to be accepted as male by society. However,  because of the stance that the genitals you're born with decide who you are,  this person was forced to compete as a female,  because this person has female genitalia. 

And now certain segments are up in arms that this person was competing  against other people with the same genitalia,  and this person won? 

You can't have it both ways.  Let this person compete against boys,  or girls. But,  if you force this person to compete against girls,  don't complain that this person should have been competing against boys,  despite the genitalia this person was born with. 

The whole thing makes my head spin. 

Except this person was also taking performance enhancing drugs and most probably won due to the unfair advantage.

 

[Ilov80s]

For 56 girls, wrestling a boy appears to be pretty difficult as well.

Give me a break

 

[JuniorNB]

Give me a break

You don't think having the testosterone levels of a male gave her an advantage over the girls?

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Except this person was also taking performance enhancing drugs and most probably won due to the unfair advantage.

11 pages in and I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp

 

[Ilov80s]

You don't think having the testosterone levels of a male gave her an advantage over the girls?

I don't think comparing the challenge of changing genders as a high school student to the challenge of losing to another wrestler is fair at all. 

 

[Sand]

Except this person was also taking performance enhancing drugs and most probably won due to the unfair advantage.

A study done not too long ago showed that in athletes taking these kind of drugs - testosterone, HgH, etc. provide a permanent increase in muscle density.  IMO some of these PEDs should carry a lifetime ban - athletes will carry a lifetime benefit from the drug regimen.  These drugs are different than the EPO and clenbuterols of the world - their effects just don't go away.  (Obviously this case is a bit different as presumably the girl will be male at some point.)

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I don't think comparing the challenge of changing genders as a high school student to the challenge of losing to another wrestler is fair at all. 

I wasn't comparing the challenges, I was implying you were missing the point.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

If changing gender during high school years is difficult... Wouldn't it make sense to wait until college years when the people around you are more educated and mature?

 

[Henry Ford]

All things to take into consideration, I guess. Bruce Jenner did it at 50. I don't think waiting until 17 would screw up the plan.

How's Jenner look to you?

 

[Henry Ford]

If changing gender during high school years is difficult... Wouldn't it make sense to wait until college years when the people around you are more educated and mature?

Except that there are lifetime physical repercussions to that decision. 

 

[Ilov80s]

I wasn't comparing the challenges, I was implying you were missing the point.

I get the point and have said the whole situation is a mess. He should have been wrestling guys. 

 

[Sand]

Except that there are lifetime physical repercussions to that decision. 

No doubt - there are times that medical needs outweigh the need to participate in voluntary activities.

 

[Judge Smails]

Just fix the law.  He should have been wrestling boys.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Except that there are lifetime physical repercussions to that decision. 

In what sense... puberty issues?..

 

[MikeIke]

Except this person was also taking performance enhancing drugs and most probably won due to the unfair advantage.

So let this person compete against  boys. 

 

[Ilov80s]

If changing gender during high school years is difficult... Wouldn't it make sense to wait until college years when the people around you are more educated and mature?

A) During teen years your body transforms into an adult male/female. Those changes aren't totally reversible. The earlier someone addresses it medically, the more successful the transformation will be. 

B) You are giving college kids too much credit. Based on many interactions I have with adults, I'm not sure many people are very mature or educated on this subject.

 

[MikeIke]

I get the point and have said the whole situation is a mess. He should have been wrestling guys. 

Not allowed,  because of the genitals this  person was born with

 

[BowieMercs]

I'm surprised how many normally reasonable fbgs are performing mental gymnastics to try to side with the LGBT.

No mental gymnastics are required to arrive at rational conclusion that consistent treatment of the individual involved is the only logical, ethical & moral way to handle this. But then again, I'm sure the average fbg would not consider me normal or reasonable.  

 

[BowieMercs]

Not allowed,  because of the genitals this  person was born with

Cuz... Texas.