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Tre Mason (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JackReacher
- Start date
lardonastick
Footballguy
What does that make Stacy in 2013, the NFL MVP?
...we're off to bad start here...
1:40 of Used Car Salesman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q77X1Dk3ixY
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Any-who, I suggest drafting Mason.
...lest I look like a detractor as I fight the hype-machine.
mquinnjr
Footballguy
VarsityBlues123
Footballguy
What is his current value if you were to sell or buy? when fisher finds a rb that works he sticks with him like george and johnson. he has a good track record with drafting rbs too.Have already acquired in all dynasty/keeper leaguesmquinnjr said:
zamboni
Footballguy
As noted many times earlier in this thread, the difference between Mason's potential upside as an RB2 and RB1 is his involvement in the passing game. If he continues to be yanked for Cunningham on 3rd downs/obvious passing situations, Mason's usage is going to be very game-dependent.What is his current value if you were to sell or buy? when fisher finds a rb that works he sticks with him like george and johnson. he has a good track record with drafting rbs too.Have already acquired in all dynasty/keeper leaguesmquinnjr said:
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Banger
Footballguy
A couple things that really draw me to the situation are the good defense and thus often many good game scripts where he can get consistent touches each game and the fact that Fisher is an old school guy and likes to have one horse. I think the Zac Stacy 2.0 fear are keeping his cost very low for the potential upside. I love his situation.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
stacy hype very reminiscent of richardson threadJust looking back at the exchange between TheFantatic and I way back in preseason.
Stacy killed this year, eh guys?
#NotAPlodder
VarsityBlues123
Footballguy
i do want to point out someone who was so wrong about gordon based off the comments he made in that notorious thread should not be bumping old posts where others may have been wrong.stacy hype very reminiscent of richardson threadJust looking back at the exchange between TheFantatic and I way back in preseason.
Stacy killed this year, eh guys?
#NotAPlodder
Soulfly3
Footballguy
For someone who registered just 2 months ago, you sure know a lot about 2yr old threadsi do want to point out someone who was so wrong about gordon based off the comments he made in that notorious thread should not be bumping old posts where others may have been wrong.stacy hype very reminiscent of richardson threadJust looking back at the exchange between TheFantatic and I way back in preseason.
Stacy killed this year, eh guys?
#NotAPlodder
ps: I am heralded for my work in that thread. infamous thread now.
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SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Bazinga...........your obsession with soulfly is extremely disturbing. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say please take it to PM if you're going to continue your infatuation.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
trust me, he takes it to PM as well.
Disturbing is putting it mildly. Almost as disturbing at how he doesn't realized how hard he got played in that thread. He's the only one on the outside looking in.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I just wanna be friends w Bazinga. I enjoyed out banter in the JG thread.
He doesnt seem to like me, though. Hopefully that changes.
Back to Tre... What a savage. Beast. The guy seriously looked great last season, and this season with a good QB back there, things should really open up for him to run
He doesnt seem to like me, though. Hopefully that changes.
Back to Tre... What a savage. Beast. The guy seriously looked great last season, and this season with a good QB back there, things should really open up for him to run
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Banger
Footballguy
I've seen numerous posts anticipating Fisher to pull the rug out from Mason as he did with Stacy...yes, those were largely Stacy drafters but nonetheless there were a number of people burned last year and have "lost faith" in finding a bell cow in that backfield.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
think I might have to question the judgement with that group
mostly likely bitter ex's wishing mason gets fat, or whatever
that said, if they take the 5th rb off the board this year, I'd probably say that puts a different light on things, but that hasn't happened yet
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Soulfly3
Footballguy
24 rushes of 10yds or more. (10 of which were against KC, SEA, SF or ARZ)
89yd rushing score
4.3ypc
62% catch rate (16 of 26) inc 1 receiving TD
.... Some things can be cleaned up/worked on, especially receiving... but for a rookie, those stats and numbers are good gravy to me. Even just watching him play, the guy hits so hard and is just vicious with it.
I'm not comparing his running style to lynch, but he's every bit as savage when he runs. Loving him this upcoming season, just as I did last year
89yd rushing score
4.3ypc
62% catch rate (16 of 26) inc 1 receiving TD
.... Some things can be cleaned up/worked on, especially receiving... but for a rookie, those stats and numbers are good gravy to me. Even just watching him play, the guy hits so hard and is just vicious with it.
I'm not comparing his running style to lynch, but he's every bit as savage when he runs. Loving him this upcoming season, just as I did last year
mquinnjr
Footballguy
You might be able to cross SF off the tough defenses list for 2015. I'm not intentionally trying to troll them, but from a Mason schedule perspective, those two games have gotten alot less scary with all of the departures on their Defense.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Mason proration, take with a grain of salt (game log from Pro Football Reference).
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MasoTr00/gamelog/2014/
Murray (392) and McCoy (312) the only two RBs with 300+ carries (Bell #3 with 290).
Mason didn't play in his first four games (like Stacy's rookie season in '13). In his first three games with carries, the Rams lost big in week 5 to SF (31-17) and week 7 to KC (34-7), and he only had 5 and 7 carries, respectively. Stacy and Cunningham were also BOTH still dividing carries those weeks. The last three weeks may also have been outliers and not representative of Mason's expected workload in a feature RB role IF the Rams aren't decimated by OL injury, the three years of the front office and coaching staff upgrading and developing the overall talent level on the roster begins to pay off and reap tangible dividends, AND they are therefore more consistently competitive. Mason had more carries at the end of the season than he did at the beginning, but not as many as in the middle of the season, after he had established himself but before the wheels came off the offense as a whole. He had 13, 13 and 11 carries in games 14-16, all three losses. Not to cherry pick, but by the above rationale, I'll average what he did in the "middle" six games between having his workload bracketed by the three game bookends of fultility, to start and finish the season.
In the six "middle" games, he had 112-471-2 rushing and 10-99-1 receiving.
Prorated over 16 games = roughly 300-1,250-5 rushing and 25-250-2
If the offense improves and is more efficient than the past few seasons (Bradford only played 8 games in '13 and 0 in '14, Foles looks like an upgrade, possibly a big one, over the likes of Kellen Clemens, Shaun Hill and Austin Davis), Mason could see an uptick in some numbers, especially TDs. One concern is Greg Robinson and Rodger Saffold are the only known starters on the OL (Jake Long and Scott Wells cut, RT Joe Barksdale could re-sign but a free agent). Though a starting center or guard could be on the roster, '13 fourth round interior OL Barret Jones is in his third season, the '14 rookie seventh round center Demetrius Rhaney a possibility? Free agency and the draft remain. Besides Barksdale, ex-OAK center Wisniewski and ATL guard Blalock could visit. At 1.10, if one of WR White or Cooper don't drop (maybe even if one does?), they could take a top RT/guard prospect like Scherff or Collins. Trading down could be an option, and/or trading up from the second (they have an extra '16 second from the Bradford trade, and might have some additional trade up ammo if they trade down from 1.10, they made a double up and down move in the '13 first when they drafted Austin and Ogletree). Depending on what they do, in the middle to latter part of the first, other OL targets could include one of the top RT prospects, Ereck Flowers, as well as consensus top center, Cam Erving. A guard like Laken Tomlinson (big, smart - 4 X Academic All-American) could make it to the second? Just not sure starting two (let alone three) rookies on the OL is ideal, so hopefully some free agent options materialize, and they can let the draft come to them. Perhaps taking a blue chip, elite WR prospect if that is the BPA at 1.10?
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MasoTr00/gamelog/2014/
Murray (392) and McCoy (312) the only two RBs with 300+ carries (Bell #3 with 290).
Mason didn't play in his first four games (like Stacy's rookie season in '13). In his first three games with carries, the Rams lost big in week 5 to SF (31-17) and week 7 to KC (34-7), and he only had 5 and 7 carries, respectively. Stacy and Cunningham were also BOTH still dividing carries those weeks. The last three weeks may also have been outliers and not representative of Mason's expected workload in a feature RB role IF the Rams aren't decimated by OL injury, the three years of the front office and coaching staff upgrading and developing the overall talent level on the roster begins to pay off and reap tangible dividends, AND they are therefore more consistently competitive. Mason had more carries at the end of the season than he did at the beginning, but not as many as in the middle of the season, after he had established himself but before the wheels came off the offense as a whole. He had 13, 13 and 11 carries in games 14-16, all three losses. Not to cherry pick, but by the above rationale, I'll average what he did in the "middle" six games between having his workload bracketed by the three game bookends of fultility, to start and finish the season.
In the six "middle" games, he had 112-471-2 rushing and 10-99-1 receiving.
Prorated over 16 games = roughly 300-1,250-5 rushing and 25-250-2
If the offense improves and is more efficient than the past few seasons (Bradford only played 8 games in '13 and 0 in '14, Foles looks like an upgrade, possibly a big one, over the likes of Kellen Clemens, Shaun Hill and Austin Davis), Mason could see an uptick in some numbers, especially TDs. One concern is Greg Robinson and Rodger Saffold are the only known starters on the OL (Jake Long and Scott Wells cut, RT Joe Barksdale could re-sign but a free agent). Though a starting center or guard could be on the roster, '13 fourth round interior OL Barret Jones is in his third season, the '14 rookie seventh round center Demetrius Rhaney a possibility? Free agency and the draft remain. Besides Barksdale, ex-OAK center Wisniewski and ATL guard Blalock could visit. At 1.10, if one of WR White or Cooper don't drop (maybe even if one does?), they could take a top RT/guard prospect like Scherff or Collins. Trading down could be an option, and/or trading up from the second (they have an extra '16 second from the Bradford trade, and might have some additional trade up ammo if they trade down from 1.10, they made a double up and down move in the '13 first when they drafted Austin and Ogletree). Depending on what they do, in the middle to latter part of the first, other OL targets could include one of the top RT prospects, Ereck Flowers, as well as consensus top center, Cam Erving. A guard like Laken Tomlinson (big, smart - 4 X Academic All-American) could make it to the second? Just not sure starting two (let alone three) rookies on the OL is ideal, so hopefully some free agent options materialize, and they can let the draft come to them. Perhaps taking a blue chip, elite WR prospect if that is the BPA at 1.10?
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There was some of course, but I didnt see much Mason bashing in here since around the time I started posting.
In summary:
Spring '14:
Mason gets drafted and Stacy vs Mason as adversaries in FF peaks
Summer:
Mason flops in the pre-season and most Stacy owners can now afford to pick up Mason cheap in drafts/auctions. Most of us did draft him, so we were all put in the same boat
Very Early Fall:
Stacy gets the carries and the Mason hypers disappear.
Mid Fall:
Mason starts to get carries and most of us are just trying to figure out who is start-able, if anyone. A person/people hype Mason so obnoxiously that even Mason supporters appear as detractors while they fight this hype machine
Late Fall:
Mason establishes himself as the Rams RB, but not as a top fantasy performer. Most posts revolve around that dynamic and whether we should be starting him in playoff time
Now:
Most/all of us like him (a lot) for 2015, which is different than thinking he is a cross between Jim Thorpe, Shaquille O'Neal, and Babe Ruth...except only better. So it's supporters vs the hypers. I havent seen any detractors.
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Soulfly3
Footballguy
There was very clearly a "Stacy owns this job" crowd post draft.
There was a "Mason was drafted pretty early crowd, so maybe he puts a dent into Stacy's carries" crowd.
There was a "Mason is gonna take this job over, 100%" crowd
There was a "Mason is gonna take this job over by week 8 the latest" crowd... Those guys are awesome.
There was a "Mason was drafted pretty early crowd, so maybe he puts a dent into Stacy's carries" crowd.
There was a "Mason is gonna take this job over, 100%" crowd
There was a "Mason is gonna take this job over by week 8 the latest" crowd... Those guys are awesome.
Once August rolled around and we mostly owned both of them:
the biggest group was the "please somebody/anybody just take this job and produce as many points as we got out of this position last year with Stacy".
I believe Stacy and Mason combined for more FF points in 2014 than Richardson/Stacy in 2013, though Stacy '13 outscored Mason 14.
It's about fantasy production. The cheerleading is an amusing waste of time.
the biggest group was the "please somebody/anybody just take this job and produce as many points as we got out of this position last year with Stacy".
I believe Stacy and Mason combined for more FF points in 2014 than Richardson/Stacy in 2013, though Stacy '13 outscored Mason 14.
It's about fantasy production. The cheerleading is an amusing waste of time.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Who was in the latter category immediately after the draft? Is that a 0 person set?
My recollection is, the biggest advocates of Mason were coming on really strong that he would cast Stacy aside almost immediately, things like Mason's expected rawness in pass pro (coming from Auburn, like 1.2 overall teammate Greg Robinson, who struggled in that department as a rookie) were laughably unimportant as to his prospects for starting sooner rather than later. The season was almost half over before he took hold of the position, and he underwhelmed in the last month. Kind of a small window in redraft leagues to be a big difference maker, for those hyping him big immediately in the wake of the draft.
Of course, in dynasty, he looks good. If they draft Gurley or Gordon, that could change in a hurry. Fisher used a first and two seconds on a RB in three straight drafts in TEN, I think. He has only used a third and fifth on their current stable (and Stacy has been passed by UFA Cunningham). For a team that philosophically seems to be more into the whole troglodytic, power rushing bag, a pick like Gurley arguably makes as much or more sense than a WR. But conversely, by that same rationale, if they don't do that, Mason should be very well positioned to excel.
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Soulfly3
Footballguy
Maybe, but FF isnt my job... it's for fun.
And I have the most fun when I own players I love. Players I enjoy to cheer for.
The NFC West may not be that tough to play against next season. The 9rs likely take a major step back and Arizona losing Bowles could seriously hurt its defense. I'm skeptical Mason deserves any downgrade based on division play.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I literally said the words, Mason will own the backfield by week 8.Who was in the latter category immediately after the draft? Is that a 0 person set?
I gave him 2 weeks longer than he needed. This was well before the season started. It's all in this thread
Ray Finkle
Footballguy
Not sure if it's been posted in this thread but via PFR here are all the rookie RBs since 1970 who are 21 or younger and averaged 60 rushing yards and 10 receiving yards per game at greater than 4.2 YPC:
Rk Year Age Draft Tm Lg G GS Att Yds Y/A TD Y/G Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Y/G Ctch% FantPt FantPt/G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Fmb 1 Edgerrin James 1999 21 1-4 IND NFL 16 16 369 1553 4.21 13 97.1 82 62 586 9.45 4 36.6 75.6 307.9 19.24 0 0 0 0 0 8 2 Clinton Portis 2002 21 2-51 DEN NFL 16 12 273 1508 5.52 15 94.3 49 33 364 11.03 2 22.8 67.3 284.2 17.76 0 0 0 0 0 5 3 Barry Sanders* 1989 21 1-3 DET NFL 15 13 280 1470 5.25 14 98.0 24 282 11.75 0 18.8 249.2 16.61 0 0 0 0 0 10 4 Jerome Bettis* 1993 21 1-10 RAM NFL 16 12 294 1429 4.86 7 89.3 26 244 9.38 0 15.3 205.3 12.83 0 0 0 0 0 4 5 Jamal Lewis 2000 21 1-5 BAL NFL 16 13 309 1364 4.41 6 85.3 36 27 296 10.96 0 18.5 75.0 198.0 12.38 0 0 0 0 0 6 6 Tre Mason 2014 21 3-75 STL NFL 12 9 179 765 4.27 4 63.8 26 16 148 9.25 1 12.3 61.5 119.3 9.94 0 0 0 0 0 2
Edit: Well that didn't work. Here is the link if a poster who is savvier than I knows how to post tables: http://pfref.com/tiny/YaHsg
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Revisionist history.
As of Aug 12th (not exactly immediately after the draft), the narrative was going to be a few weeks. I thought that was a wee bit overexuberant at the time, and that it was reckless to completely disregard pass pro deficiencies, which some were, shall we say, a litle cavalier about at the time.
Later, the narrative morphed into week 8, not immediately after the draft, just to get the squence and timeline straight.
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Soulfly3
Footballguy
January 2014 I was all over Tre's hammer.
For what it's worth... My fascination wasn't an August thing
anyways.... enough about me being right... let's talk mason.
things seem in line for a great season. I really like the kid and his style... hope foles stays healthy and brings some respect to that passing game.. that's the BEST way for Tre to live up to his potential.
Rams drafting white/parker with their first pick ideal.
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
NOTE - I hadn't read your post immediately above before writing the below, Soulfly, I was just trying to get the sequence and timeline straight.
This is 10-17, again, not immediately after the draft (most of us have drafts before the season starts
). By that point, it is about mid-season, when you started to make the "prediction". Projected 6 weeks in this post, so not sure which it is, 8 weeks, 6 weeks, in August it was a few weeks. I just skimmed the thread, but this is the first I saw the week 6 reference? The position seemed to morph over time. It's easier to be accurate in retrospect.EDIT/ADD - For the record, I think I was too conservative about Mason. I responded in different ways according to context. Some thought early it was a dumb pick, I disagreed and supported the pick (for the Rams). Some thought Mason would cast aside Stacy immediately and pass pro issues were ridiculously unimportant. I suggested tapping the breaks, before the season started. I consistently said I liked him more in dynasty than redraft, I thought he had the talent to beat out Stacy but it might be later in the season or even in 2015. Stacy didn't look as good to me in his second year, but I concede he wasn't as much of an obstacle as I expected.
The object isn't to say who was right or wrong (and the truth is, we were both right and wrong in some respects, which is probably typical), but to collectively learn what was right and eliminate what was wrong from the consensus and aggregate "rationale", about things like running talent, importance of pass pro, timing of takeover, dynasty vs. redraft, etc. So we can apply those lessons NEXT TIME, like 2015, for instance, and beyond.
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Soulfly3
Footballguy
week 8 is midseason, nah?
anyways, like I said... this is about Tre La Soul.... The Choo Choo Tre'n. Not Soulfly... tho it should be... a little bit
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
And like I said, on the 12th, a week before, it was a few weeks to take over, pass pro concerns were foolish.
He had some hinky pre-season performances, which may have caused you to dial down the optimism?
The tone was definitely more strident about how soon Mason would swat Stacy aside, prior to this.
Anyhoo, any projections? Any thoughts on the proration in the last page?
Too pessimistic, optimistic, in the ball park? I do think TDs go up barring injury or something unexpected, like drafting Gurley/Gordon.
He had some hinky pre-season performances, which may have caused you to dial down the optimism?
The tone was definitely more strident about how soon Mason would swat Stacy aside, prior to this.
Anyhoo, any projections? Any thoughts on the proration in the last page?
Too pessimistic, optimistic, in the ball park? I do think TDs go up barring injury or something unexpected, like drafting Gurley/Gordon.
