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It’s interesting that a lot of guys in here are calling Musk archaic because he is trying to get people back into the office. And its understandable - we are a bunch of old farts with long careers and wives and families and all these responsibilities.

But I can tell you, I know a handful of recently graduated college kids who WANT some kind of office experience. That is where they meet people, actually learn their jobs, go out for beers with their colleagues….etc….

I know some kids who have turned down full work from home jobs because they want to meet people and be around like minded workers.

They are young and are just starting their lives. Don’t assume that concept is so archaic. And as these covid kids grow up who were isolated for two years, they are going to need that office experience. They are going to need to be around people.

Now, I know for some jobs working at home is much better for them, and Musk should be flexible of course. But I can see a shift BACK to the office environment for these young workers who need that kind of thing.
Absolutely, especially those young people without families. Their apartments are likely small and not very nice as well. Staying home when you have kids, a nice house with lots of space and amenities is way different than being crammed into a small apartment with a couch, bed and laptop.
 
It’s interesting that a lot of guys in here are calling Musk archaic because he is trying to get people back into the office. And its understandable - we are a bunch of old farts with long careers and wives and families and all these responsibilities.

But I can tell you, I know a handful of recently graduated college kids who WANT some kind of office experience. That is where they meet people, actually learn their jobs, go out for beers with their colleagues….etc….

I know some kids who have turned down full work from home jobs because they want to meet people and be around like minded workers.

They are young and are just starting their lives. Don’t assume that concept is so archaic. And as these covid kids grow up who were isolated for two years, they are going to need that office experience. They are going to need to be around people.

Now, I know for some jobs working at home is much better for them, and Musk should be flexible of course. But I can see a shift BACK to the office environment for these young workers who need that kind of thing.
It’s not so much he is asking people to come back occasionally. It’s the demand that they have to, every single day, the next day after the email was sent, or they’re fired.

You’re missing quite a bit of the story there.

Agreed. As a manager I am pretty big on being in the office. But that's not the issue here, it's how he has handled this every step of the way.
 
It’s interesting that a lot of guys in here are calling Musk archaic because he is trying to get people back into the office. And its understandable - we are a bunch of old farts with long careers and wives and families and all these responsibilities.

But I can tell you, I know a handful of recently graduated college kids who WANT some kind of office experience. That is where they meet people, actually learn their jobs, go out for beers with their colleagues….etc….

I know some kids who have turned down full work from home jobs because they want to meet people and be around like minded workers.

They are young and are just starting their lives. Don’t assume that concept is so archaic. And as these covid kids grow up who were isolated for two years, they are going to need that office experience. They are going to need to be around people.

Now, I know for some jobs working at home is much better for them, and Musk should be flexible of course. But I can see a shift BACK to the office environment for these young workers who need that kind of thing.
I’m not aware of any policy in place (other than Covid laws previously), that was preventing anyone from working at the office if they wanted. Until now of course when everyone is blocked from the office.
 
No idea how I missed this story. And this was a WEEK AGO...
Musk paid $44 billion to buy Twitter. But it wasn’t all his money. He borrowed $13 billion of it to help foot the bill, and Bloomberg News is reporting that the banks that lent him that money are now trying to offload those loans. They’ve reportedly received offers for as little as 60 cents on the dollar.
 
It’s interesting that a lot of guys in here are calling Musk archaic because he is trying to get people back into the office. And its understandable - we are a bunch of old farts with long careers and wives and families and all these responsibilities.

But I can tell you, I know a handful of recently graduated college kids who WANT some kind of office experience. That is where they meet people, actually learn their jobs, go out for beers with their colleagues….etc….

I know some kids who have turned down full work from home jobs because they want to meet people and be around like minded workers.

They are young and are just starting their lives. Don’t assume that concept is so archaic. And as these covid kids grow up who were isolated for two years, they are going to need that office experience. They are going to need to be around people.

Now, I know for some jobs working at home is much better for them, and Musk should be flexible of course. But I can see a shift BACK to the office environment for these young workers who need that kind of thing.
I’m not aware of any policy in place (other than Covid laws previously), that was preventing anyone from working at the office if they wanted. Until now of course when everyone is blocked from the office.

A lot of employers are finding out there's just certain people in their company who can work from home. My Mom works at a hospital in an area where there's 3 of them and they figured out they only need 1 person in the office at a time so the other 2 can stay home. They all alternate every 2 weeks. I have a friend who now can work from home and his office is now being used for something that more helps his company as well. Some companies also allow women out for childcare on paternity leave to work from home as well. One of my friends has a coworker who had a baby in July. She's only has to come in if there's like an important meeting. Other then that they told her wrk from home and take care of her baby. Her husband apparently works long hours and both their parents aren't always available for childcare.
 
It’s interesting that a lot of guys in here are calling Musk archaic because he is trying to get people back into the office. And its understandable - we are a bunch of old farts with long careers and wives and families and all these responsibilities.

But I can tell you, I know a handful of recently graduated college kids who WANT some kind of office experience. That is where they meet people, actually learn their jobs, go out for beers with their colleagues….etc….

I know some kids who have turned down full work from home jobs because they want to meet people and be around like minded workers.

They are young and are just starting their lives. Don’t assume that concept is so archaic. And as these covid kids grow up who were isolated for two years, they are going to need that office experience. They are going to need to be around people.

Now, I know for some jobs working at home is much better for them, and Musk should be flexible of course. But I can see a shift BACK to the office environment for these young workers who need that kind of thing.
Maybe. But many younger people are content to communicate/socialize primarily via their devices. Ever seen a group of kids texting while seated together?

Also, what prevents young workers from meeting in person outside the office?
 
No idea how I missed this story. And this was a WEEK AGO...
Musk paid $44 billion to buy Twitter. But it wasn’t all his money. He borrowed $13 billion of it to help foot the bill, and Bloomberg News is reporting that the banks that lent him that money are now trying to offload those loans. They’ve reportedly received offers for as little as 60 cents on the dollar.
You should check out this thread too.
 
It’s interesting that a lot of guys in here are calling Musk archaic because he is trying to get people back into the office. And its understandable - we are a bunch of old farts with long careers and wives and families and all these responsibilities.

But I can tell you, I know a handful of recently graduated college kids who WANT some kind of office experience. That is where they meet people, actually learn their jobs, go out for beers with their colleagues….etc….

I know some kids who have turned down full work from home jobs because they want to meet people and be around like minded workers.

They are young and are just starting their lives. Don’t assume that concept is so archaic. And as these covid kids grow up who were isolated for two years, they are going to need that office experience. They are going to need to be around people.

Now, I know for some jobs working at home is much better for them, and Musk should be flexible of course. But I can see a shift BACK to the office environment for these young workers who need that kind of thing.
It’s not so much he is asking people to come back occasionally. It’s the demand that they have to, every single day, the next day after the email was sent, or they’re fired.

You’re missing quite a bit of the story there.

Agreed. As a manager I am pretty big on being in the office. But that's not the issue here, it's how he has handled this every step of the way.
Agree with this 100%.
 
How likely is it that if twitter goes under, that becomes the catalyst for a much larger scale recession/depression?

I'm not anything near a finance guy, but getting kind of a Lehman Brothers vibe.
 
How likely is it that if twitter goes under, that becomes the catalyst for a much larger scale recession/depression?

I'm not anything near a finance guy, but getting kind of a Lehman Brothers vibe.

I don’t see it but the market is unpredictable. I think the take away here would just be related to Elon, not tech or the market overall.
 
How likely is it that if twitter goes under, that becomes the catalyst for a much larger scale recession/depression?

I'm not anything near a finance guy, but getting kind of a Lehman Brothers vibe.
I don’t think it would take down the whole economy at all, but I do think it would have the potential to cause a lot of problems for Tesla. A large part of their stock price is based off people’s trust on Elon IMO, and that is taking a beating right now.

Of course the loss of Twitter absolutely will hurt a lot of businesses. Anyone basing most of their business on Twitter in some way was/is obviously foolish, but that doesn’t change the fact that a lot of people have done exactly that.

One thing that would suck if Twitter goes under is that Twitter is THE best way to get customer service at large companies to actually do something. Phone calls and emails to large companies get almost zero response while reaching out over social media gets far better results.
 
No idea how I missed this story. And this was a WEEK AGO...
Musk paid $44 billion to buy Twitter. But it wasn’t all his money. He borrowed $13 billion of it to help foot the bill, and Bloomberg News is reporting that the banks that lent him that money are now trying to offload those loans. They’ve reportedly received offers for as little as 60 cents on the dollar.
You should check out this thread too.
I don't understand 40% of the words used in that thread. I understand more about quantum mechanics or non-eucludian geometry than financial instruments.
 
A Last-Longer over/under bet on Liz Truss as England's PM vs. how long Twitter survives with Elon running it would have been an amazing bet. "My money's on the lettuce".
 
How likely is it that if twitter goes under, that becomes the catalyst for a much larger scale recession/depression?

I'm not anything near a finance guy, but getting kind of a Lehman Brothers vibe.

Take this with a grain of salt. one of the guys in our group WhatsApp soccer chat is from Dublin working in Kenya. One of the clients he has works for a very big bank. While he had a screen share up he saw an email from his big bosses that said expect in the next 2 yrs to have a recession just as bad as the Great Depression. Again take this with a grain of salt but apparently thats what he saw.
 
It’s not so much he is asking people to come back occasionally. It’s the demand that they have to, every single day, the next day after the email was sent, or they’re fired.

You’re missing quite a bit of the story there.
Even if he asked nicely. Even if he gave three months notice.

Any tech CEO announcing they are doing away from work from home would get criticized.


I have no doubt that some people love the office culture. Buy the fact is there will be qualified people who won't even consider Twitter as an employer. I don't see that as debatable.


So it seems reasonable to question the move. :shrug:
 
Elon Musk’s Twitter takeover has sparked calls for an investigation into the national security implications raised by the involvement of Saudi Arabia and its prince, Alwaleed bin Talal, who’s now the second-largest investor in the now-private social media company. Musk completed his $44 billion acquisition with the help of bin Talal, founder of Saudi Arabia’s Kingdom Holding Co., who agreed to roll over his company’s existing $1.89 billion stake in the social media platform.

With nearly 35 million shares, the Saudi entities are Twitter’s second-largest shareholders, ranking behind only Musk himself, according to Bloomberg.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/wo...0221101-szzgo3qoxvhpjmsya5nsq6clxu-story.html
 
Apparently no one gets paid to work from home and no one gets paid to work from the office at Twitter now. The payroll department quit.

Reporter for the Insider.

Twitter aside... is there anyone, at any company, no matter how much they love working there... who goes through the thought process after hearing this "Well, the payroll department is gone. So I can stay here and maybe get a paycheck eventually for however long this place survives, or, take a guaranteed three month's pay to leave and find a new job..." and doesn't split?
 
Here’s the thing about the 3 months salary though: if Twitter does actually crash and burn, nobody’s getting 3 months salary because there won’t be any money.
 
It’s interesting that a lot of guys in here are calling Musk archaic because he is trying to get people back into the office. And its understandable - we are a bunch of old farts with long careers and wives and families and all these responsibilities.

But I can tell you, I know a handful of recently graduated college kids who WANT some kind of office experience. That is where they meet people, actually learn their jobs, go out for beers with their colleagues….etc….

I know some kids who have turned down full work from home jobs because they want to meet people and be around like minded workers.

They are young and are just starting their lives. Don’t assume that concept is so archaic. And as these covid kids grow up who were isolated for two years, they are going to need that office experience. They are going to need to be around people.

Now, I know for some jobs working at home is much better for them, and Musk should be flexible of course. But I can see a shift BACK to the office environment for these young workers who need that kind of thing.
Isn't the archaic part forcing people to be in the office whether they want to be or not? A great many companies have policies in which employees can choose whether they want to work in the office or from home.
 
It’s interesting that a lot of guys in here are calling Musk archaic because he is trying to get people back into the office. And its understandable - we are a bunch of old farts with long careers and wives and families and all these responsibilities.

But I can tell you, I know a handful of recently graduated college kids who WANT some kind of office experience. That is where they meet people, actually learn their jobs, go out for beers with their colleagues….etc….

I know some kids who have turned down full work from home jobs because they want to meet people and be around like minded workers.

They are young and are just starting their lives. Don’t assume that concept is so archaic. And as these covid kids grow up who were isolated for two years, they are going to need that office experience. They are going to need to be around people.

Now, I know for some jobs working at home is much better for them, and Musk should be flexible of course. But I can see a shift BACK to the office environment for these young workers who need that kind of thing.
On the WFH stuff I find a ton of different arguments. I personally find the argument "you are more productive when you're in the office" and/or "you need to be in the office so I can keep an eye on you" which Musk is making to be archaic for certain. That sort of black/white thinking is very archaic IMO. Of course WFH is not for everyone nor can everyone do it well. That's different than the construct itself being archaic. I don't think that's been said. A TON of people had their eyes opened to what I've known for 20 years. WFH is going to become a benefit of employment at some point. It will be valued/factored differently from one person to the next for sure.
 
It’s interesting that a lot of guys in here are calling Musk archaic because he is trying to get people back into the office. And its understandable - we are a bunch of old farts with long careers and wives and families and all these responsibilities.

But I can tell you, I know a handful of recently graduated college kids who WANT some kind of office experience. That is where they meet people, actually learn their jobs, go out for beers with their colleagues….etc….

I know some kids who have turned down full work from home jobs because they want to meet people and be around like minded workers.

They are young and are just starting their lives. Don’t assume that concept is so archaic. And as these covid kids grow up who were isolated for two years, they are going to need that office experience. They are going to need to be around people.

Now, I know for some jobs working at home is much better for them, and Musk should be flexible of course. But I can see a shift BACK to the office environment for these young workers who need that kind of thing.
On the WFH stuff I find a ton of different arguments. I personally find the argument "you are more productive when you're in the office" and/or "you need to be in the office so I can keep an eye on you" which Musk is making to be archaic for certain. That sort of black/white thinking is very archaic IMO. Of course WFH is not for everyone nor can everyone do it well. That's different than the construct itself being archaic. I don't think that's been said. A TON of people had their eyes opened to what I've known for 20 years. WFH is going to become a benefit of employment at some point. It will be valued/factored differently from one person to the next for sure.
I agree with you. We're dreading the WFH movement from the opposite end of the spectrum. Certain positions and jobs will never be able to work from home and we've already lost good people to those WFH jobs and it's starting to limit the candidate pool. Our people with experience are leaving for it because it's something new that fits their schedules better. The younger crowd seems much less interested in cubical working these days. It's really limiting the candidate pool and what we're viewing as an acceptable new hire.

We make our own problem worse with a lack of accountability because there is a fear we can't hire someone better. Hopefully this trend reverses, but we've been hurting for several years now.
 
A Last-Longer over/under bet on Liz Truss as England's PM vs. how long Twitter survives with Elon running it would have been an amazing bet. "My money's on the lettuce".

What's your date on how much longer Twitter survives with Musk running it?
 
More like Quitter aimirite?
The litter of quitters at Twitter are becoming quite bitter.
Perhaps a baby sitter would have been a good fit fer the billionaire who flushed his cash down the ****ter.
 
A Last-Longer over/under bet on Liz Truss as England's PM vs. how long Twitter survives with Elon running it would have been an amazing bet. "My money's on the lettuce".

What's your date on how much longer Twitter survives with Musk running it?
Musk is cleaning house of useless employees. They will be replaced with people who actually do work (probably 1 hire for 5 or more that quit/fired) and you will find out that twitter did not need nearly the # of employees they had. It will not be going anywhere.
 
It’s interesting that a lot of guys in here are calling Musk archaic because he is trying to get people back into the office. And its understandable - we are a bunch of old farts with long careers and wives and families and all these responsibilities.

But I can tell you, I know a handful of recently graduated college kids who WANT some kind of office experience. That is where they meet people, actually learn their jobs, go out for beers with their colleagues….etc….

I know some kids who have turned down full work from home jobs because they want to meet people and be around like minded workers.

They are young and are just starting their lives. Don’t assume that concept is so archaic. And as these covid kids grow up who were isolated for two years, they are going to need that office experience. They are going to need to be around people.

Now, I know for some jobs working at home is much better for them, and Musk should be flexible of course. But I can see a shift BACK to the office environment for these young workers who need that kind of thing.
On the WFH stuff I find a ton of different arguments. I personally find the argument "you are more productive when you're in the office" and/or "you need to be in the office so I can keep an eye on you" which Musk is making to be archaic for certain. That sort of black/white thinking is very archaic IMO. Of course WFH is not for everyone nor can everyone do it well. That's different than the construct itself being archaic. I don't think that's been said. A TON of people had their eyes opened to what I've known for 20 years. WFH is going to become a benefit of employment at some point. It will be valued/factored differently from one person to the next for sure.
I agree with you. We're dreading the WFH movement from the opposite end of the spectrum. Certain positions and jobs will never be able to work from home and we've already lost good people to those WFH jobs and it's starting to limit the candidate pool. Our people with experience are leaving for it because it's something new that fits their schedules better. The younger crowd seems much less interested in cubical working these days. It's really limiting the candidate pool and what we're viewing as an acceptable new hire.

We make our own problem worse with a lack of accountability because there is a fear we can't hire someone better. Hopefully this trend reverses, but we've been hurting for several years now.
Pandemic realizations are going to have a meaningful impact on a lot of industries IMO. You give a really good example of what I'm talking about. It's my guess that some will want to have a job where this sort of thing is an option and not all jobs can be done this way. It's likely going to create shortages in those areas not unlike the push when I was a kid where the only "successful" people in life were "college educated". Look what that did to our trade industries. There are going to be similar impacts to industries where WFH isn't an option IMO.
 
I am living first hand about the stupidity of archaic thinking. our management says the same olds BS about being in the office is more productive blah blah blah..... we definitely have some need to be here at certain times but they don't see grey. It has made pretty much everyone hate middle management and we all now do the bare minimum.... its really sad because there are a lot of motivated people that just don't care now because of arbitrary guidelines. Its a lot of envy" I guess since every other group in the organization stuck with a flexible hybrid policy but ours so that really gets people fired up
 
The younger crowd seems much less interested in cubical working these days.
It isn't just the younger crowd. Nobody is interested in working in a cube
Add in that a lot of companies have redone offices so people don’t have their own cubes any more. But shared spaces or have to reserve spaces when they do go in. My wife’s office did this. Prior to covid she was working 2 days a week at home. Even before sending everyone home they had a plan to reconfigure office space like that. So now if she goes in, she reserves space…doesn’t have her same monitor set up…obviously nothing personal in any cube space and so on. She hates going in as often she is on the phone to other offices in the US and in other countries that is a pain if having to share space.
 
It’s interesting that a lot of guys in here are calling Musk archaic because he is trying to get people back into the office. And its understandable - we are a bunch of old farts with long careers and wives and families and all these responsibilities.

But I can tell you, I know a handful of recently graduated college kids who WANT some kind of office experience. That is where they meet people, actually learn their jobs, go out for beers with their colleagues….etc….

I know some kids who have turned down full work from home jobs because they want to meet people and be around like minded workers.

They are young and are just starting their lives. Don’t assume that concept is so archaic. And as these covid kids grow up who were isolated for two years, they are going to need that office experience. They are going to need to be around people.

Now, I know for some jobs working at home is much better for them, and Musk should be flexible of course. But I can see a shift BACK to the office environment for these young workers who need that kind of thing.
On the WFH stuff I find a ton of different arguments. I personally find the argument "you are more productive when you're in the office" and/or "you need to be in the office so I can keep an eye on you" which Musk is making to be archaic for certain. That sort of black/white thinking is very archaic IMO. Of course WFH is not for everyone nor can everyone do it well. That's different than the construct itself being archaic. I don't think that's been said. A TON of people had their eyes opened to what I've known for 20 years. WFH is going to become a benefit of employment at some point. It will be valued/factored differently from one person to the next for sure.
I agree with you. We're dreading the WFH movement from the opposite end of the spectrum. Certain positions and jobs will never be able to work from home and we've already lost good people to those WFH jobs and it's starting to limit the candidate pool. Our people with experience are leaving for it because it's something new that fits their schedules better. The younger crowd seems much less interested in cubical working these days. It's really limiting the candidate pool and what we're viewing as an acceptable new hire.

We make our own problem worse with a lack of accountability because there is a fear we can't hire someone better. Hopefully this trend reverses, but we've been hurting for several years now.
Pandemic realizations are going to have a meaningful impact on a lot of industries IMO. You give a really good example of what I'm talking about. It's my guess that some will want to have a job where this sort of thing is an option and not all jobs can be done this way. It's likely going to create shortages in those areas not unlike the push when I was a kid where the only "successful" people in life were "college educated". Look what that did to our trade industries. There are going to be similar impacts to industries where WFH isn't an option IMO.
Yup. So industries/positions that require working in the office may have to find other ways to attract good employees. Higher pay, better benefits packages, bonuses, etc, may be required. The problem is that upper management/clients are very slow to understand this. Rather than quickly adapt and realize that you’re going to have to pay 20% more to retain and gain good employees, they resist it because “that’s not what we pay those positions” and so those workers go find other jobs where they can work from home or go somewhere else that adapts quicker and increases compensation.

That’s one thing that Musk really doesn’t seem to understand. He’s treating his employees like they’re a tech startup with his demands to work “extreme”, only he’s not providing them with the equity bonuses that employees working extreme hours at startups typically get. Yeah, a lot of the workers are compensated well, but most of them can find similar jobs fairly easily without having to work “ExTReME” hours/conditions.
 
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