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Tyler Thigpen -- who's buying LONG TERM (1 Viewer)

Sanboy

Sanboy

Footballguy
Tyler Thigpen

discuss ....

who is buying him long term ?

there is no argument he has looked good in the last little stretch of games ......

is he someone K.C builds around .. or is this simply a product of a " shotgun/spread " look that a bad team is using because of the Qb and playing from behind ...

does K.C draft a QB # 1 .. with this 24 year old playing well this year .??????????

discuss .. whats your gut feeling on his long term value / outlook

MY PERSONAL OPINION .. very athetic guy .. was in college .. and he has shown it in the NFL .. but i dont know if K.C will pass a Stafford coming out of Georgia .. and i am lukewarm if the " shotgun approach " is something K.C will build around .. just dont know

 
I have nothing invested in this guy, but I like him a lot for the Cheifs long term. Very good QB.

I think he gives them someone to play while they draft someone high and groom (Anderson/Quinn situation)

 
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Depending on your opinion of Ron Jaworski, this may or may not mean much, but he declared that Kansas City's search for their franchise QB is over. That was his assessment from watching film on the guy. He probably spends as much time watching film as anyone in the game.

 
DR ... your post .. makes me ???? you think he is a good long term QB .. but you think they should still draft a high QB in the draft .. if Thigpen was a long term answer .. i would see no reason to draft someone . since Thigpen is 24 ... they would be grooming him at the same time as paying $$$$$ for the rookie

interesting info from JAWS!!!!!!!!!!!

 
Sanboy said:
interesting info from JAWS!!!!!!!!!!!
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What made it even more interesting to me was that it was completely unsolicited. Tyler Thigpen wasn't even the topic. Jaworski simply made it a point to get that in during a general NFL discussion.
 
I like Jaws but he's been wrong before. Thigpen had had a nice stretch but not buying the hype in the slighest. KC is out of their mind if they don't give him some legit competition next year. (not that they don't have other needs)

 
Sanboy said:
DR ... your post .. makes me ???? you think he is a good long term QB .. but you think they should still draft a high QB in the draft .. if Thigpen was a long term answer .. i would see no reason to draft someone . since Thigpen is 24 ... they would be grooming him at the same time as paying $$$$$ for the rookie interesting info from JAWS!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yes I can see how that can be confusing...I think he's a good long term QB, but I still think KC needs to draft a QB high. Not 1st round, maybe 2nd or 3rd round. I'm not 100% sold on this guy forever, but I think he's a decent QB for the next 3 years or so. I guess I used a different definition of "long term" than was meant by this thread. Long term that I'm referring to is that they are in no hurry to find a starter next year, he's a good starter for a while. I wouldn't be too quick to say he's a perm. replacement because look at CLE, everyone thought Anderson was amazing. I kept saying he was doomed to self destruct. I think Thigpen may be in a similar situation. I think a lot of teams don't know much about him and therefore he's succeeding very well. The kid is talented and I think he can manage an offense... but franchise QB? I don't think so. I think they need to plan as if he may be awful in the next few yers and draft someone somewhat high. I guess time will tell. I wouldn't say their search is over, but if it is then congrats to KC and to Thigpen, it's a good story.
 
As a Chiefs fan I'm just waiting and seeing. Since starting against the Jets, including today's game, he's got a 96.2 QB rating, or 98.9 if you take out the completely meaningless INT at the end of today's game. He still makes the odd bad throw, generally isn't completing enough passes and basically is far from perfect -- but, he's very young and I think very talented. You can see the physical talent when you watch him; very mobile, strong arm, good release. The next six games will be very telling. If he can keep averaging 225-2 without turnovers, it'll make for a real interesting offseason.

 
The Chiefs should build around him by either improving the offensive line or drafting a defensive player. QB's in the first round are very hit-or-miss and you generally have to wait a few years to reap the reward if you're lucky. For every Matt Ryan there's 10 Joey Harringtons.

As the poster above mentioned, Thigpen is far from perfect, but he's young and can build on this year's success.

 
I agree with alot of what has been said ..

D.Anderson is a little bit of a different situation . ONLY because they didnt see ANDERSON play BEFORE drafting Quinn

Quinn was drafted before Anderson has his bust out year ... so totally different ... I dont think the BROWNS would have drafted Quinn if Anderson had done what he did last year the year pre-quinn draftg

which makes this a different situation

because Thigpen has shown something NOW . so if you go and draft a QB # 1 you are basically tossing out the idea that THIGPEN is a possible FUTURE franchise type guy ....because if they did view him as the future QB why tie up all the money in a # 1 to watch him sit on the bench ....

but i do agree . THIGPEN is far from perfect ....... and at the same time i remember alot of people saying the same thing about T.Romo when he busted out ....

 
They do still have Croyle who they believed in at the start of the season. That's probably competition enough if Thigpen finishes the year well.

 
The key thing and the good thing is that it's week 11, not week 17. He still has six more games to strengthen his argument that he should be the starter next year, and that'll be a decent 10-game sample size. Now, let's say they have the No. 1 or 2 pick and somehow there's a no-brainer franchise guy on the board, like Manning -- they should take him. But that's not the case this year at all. Stafford has all the tools of that franchise guy but he rarely plays anywhere near as good as he should with them. To me, passing on Stafford IF another elite talent is there (even if Thigpen wasn't looking good) wouldn't be a terrible move because Stafford just isn't that type of prospect. He's got insane upside but he's also a MAJOR $75 million risk.

The thing is, they desperately, desperately need a pass-rusher and a stud MLB. In an ideal world they'd grab an elite DE with their first pick and a good MLB with their second pick. Fill out a perfect draft with OL and defensive help and give Thigpen another year with a decent supporting cast and improved defense to prove that he's absolutely a franchise guy.

 
I doubt the Chiefs will have a shot at Stafford, even if they wanted to go that way. They'd likely have to get ahead of the Lions, and I'm not seeing that happening, though it is a possibility. The Chiefs have been playing a lot better lately, and I imagine they'll get another win or two before the season's out. Unless Bradford comes out, there's not another QB you would take in the top 5 (or even in the first round, most likely).

The Chiefs have a ton of needs, but I'd like to see them go after an RDE - they desperately need a pass rush. Orakpo would be the likeliest target at that position.

A QB must be drafted at some point - they have zero depth at the position currently. I have my doubts that Croyle will be back, and I have no idea what will happen with Huard.

All that being said, I hope Thigpen continues to play well and can prove himself to be a legit franchise QB. There's a long way to go before that can be said, but he's off to a great start. For a young QB, he shows amazing poise and confidence - he really looks comfortable in the offense. Far from mistake-free, but he appears to have the tools to succeed. As a bonus, the coaching staff has finally opened up what was a horribly stagnant offense - they implemented a system to fit the QB, rather than trying to wedge the QB into their system.

 
brutha said:
I like Jaws but he's been wrong before. Thigpen had had a nice stretch but not buying the hype in the slighest. KC is out of their mind if they don't give him some legit competition next year. (not that they don't have other needs)
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Jaws was also really high on JP Losman. And while I still think Losman has the physical tools, he just can't read a defense. So Jaws has definitely been wrong.
 
A product of "the system"? What system is that? The one that no other QB in KC could suceed in? Since when did Herm Edwards ever have a sytem?

Thigpen almost by himself has made the Cheifs a competitive team. Is he a good NFL QB yet? No, but he isn't far away from that either. Huard could not run this offense, and a couple of years ago he could.

Sure, I think the Cheifs should spend a first day pick on a QB, but one to groom as Thigpen's backup and for depth. Thigpen took over after getting virtually no snaps with the starters until he was in an NFL game. He'll never be a Cutler... but a Rivers? Maybe.

 
The problem about his long term future I have, is Herm and the coaching staff coming back? They may change everything, than what do you have?

 
Yea .. I thought about the possible coaching change .. BUT i think EDWARDS gets a pass on this year .. it was pretty well known this was a rebuilding year for the CHIEFS .. the moment the J.Allen trade was announced .. EDWARDS bought himself atleast a year or two .....

 
I'm curious to the homers take on this aggressive KC attack. It's pretty clear that Herm is ultra-conservative. Just how did KC get to this point? Maybe this can shed some light on next year.

 
well i am not a K.C homer but to tell you how they got here ..... from what i know its simple

Thigpen played in nothing but shot gun in college .. he cant read defense's that well from behind center ... and playing in shotgun gives him more time and also gives him a better look see

some people will remember C.Gailey had K.Stewart in pitt ( before Gaily left for dallas )

the monent Gailey left Stewart started a slow decline ..

i think the question is .. does THIGPEN get better at reading the defense .. and slowly becomes a QB that can play under center and shot gun .. or does he become Alex Smith who played in a shot gun offense in college and never was able to adapt to playing under center in the pros...

 
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As Sanboy said, Thigpen played in the spread at Coastal Carolina, which is why the Chiefs are using it now. Thigpen started game 2 this year, and his attempt at running the standard Chiefs offense met with disastrous results. When Croyle and Huard went down for the season, the coaching staff had little choice but to implement an offense that Thigpen might have a chance to succeed in. Thus, the spread.

I can't see Herm running the spread long term - it pretty much goes against his entire offensive philosophy. As a fan, the spread offense is a whole lot more exciting to watch than Herm's famous R2P2 offense (run, run, pass, punt).

Will Carl and Herm be back next year? I think that likely depends entirely on Carl's status as GM. If he is fired, as so many fans hope and pray for, then Herm is most likely gone. If Carl stays, Herm stays.

 
Thigpen will continue to be in the mix for no other reason than Carl does not want him to turn into Rich Gannon - part 2.

 
Sanboy said:
well i am not a K.C homer but to tell you how they got here ..... from what i know its simple Thigpen played in nothing but shot gun in college .. he cant read defense's that well from behind center ... and playing in shotgun gives him more time and also gives him a better look see some people will remember C.Gailey had K.Stewart in pitt ( before Gaily left for dallas ) the monent Gailey left Stewart started a slow decline ..i think the question is .. does THIGPEN get better at reading the defense .. and slowly becomes a QB that can play under center and shot gun .. or does he become Alex Smith who played in a shot gun offense in college and never was able to adapt to playing under center in the pros...
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I like what I've seen so far, he has a nice arm and makes pretty good decisions with the ball, but I agree we wont really know how good he really is until he starts getting under center and dropping back to pass. The spread has worked pretty well over the last couple of games, but I don't think its something they can keep up longterm.
 
As a Jet fan I am shocked that Herm doesn't take a knee everytime he is in 50 yd FG range. Dump him and start fresh - herm is not an NFL caliber coach. I think of how happy I am to not have Herm every time Leon Washington runs wild - all time best trade!

As for Thigpen - if he keeps it up down the stretch I can see the Chiefs wait until the 2nd or 3rd rd to get a QB to challenge him. They need more help than just QB.

 
Tyler Thigpen has 'it'. That intangible quality that makes a Gus Frerotte stick for years in the NFL while a Heath Shuler ends up in Congress.

Is Thigpen an elite stud? No, but he has shown enough to allow the Chiefs to look elsewhere in the 1st and 2nd rounds next April and see what the kid has in 09' after a full offseason and training camp. I'm buying on Thigpen long-term right now.

 
I think he's playing well, but the team has nothing to lose. I'd like to see how he plays when there are genuine expectations and he has to deal with real pressure.

Not saying he can't do it, but playing well when the team is playing out the string is different than stepping behind center when you're 0-0. I think Derek Anderson succumbed to the pressure of high expectations.

 
Getting the ball to his receivers and got to love the rushing yards.

We know this - he has got a superb arm and can run.

We've seen him produce over the last 4 weeks.

I'd say we got a winner.

 
Sanboy said:
and K.C homers out there ..
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It's just unbelievable, to say the least, on the progress he has made since his first start agains Atl. Against Atl, he was by far the worst QB in football and has become servicable at this point. Every throw he made was to the wrong shoulder, high, and extremely too hard.Since then, he has become very aware of coverages, has added a touch to his passes, and has thrown strikes when needed....granted, I would like to see him throw down field more and give DBowe the ability to run after catch, but that will come with experience.The greatest thing he has coming to him going forward is that he has the next 6 games to get better, as there is no competition behind him. The Chiefs will give him every snap to prove what he can do, pending any unforseen injury.I am not saying that he is going to be the next greatest thing at his position, but the sheer improvement he has made from his first start up to his 5th has been remarkable.I do not forsee the spread/shotgun formation working forever, as defenses will figure him out (i.e. see Derek Anderson), but maybe, just maybe, this will give him a comfort level going forward to understand defenses and play this position at a competitive level once he does have to go under center more regularly.
 
Forget long-term - He's got a great schedule down the stretch for fantasy. Can he get a couple of TDs a game and some running yards down the stretch against the AFC west?

 
he certainly looks like the best QB the chiefs have had in quite a few years. i expect huard to leave the chiefs in the off-season. that leaves croyle and thigpen as returning players. they'll bring in a vet to round out the competition too. thigpen sure seems to shown more than croyle. i would expect thigpen to be the favorite as a starter next season, depending on who the vet is.

 
if Thigpen keeps doing what he is doing for the remaining games .. i really think it will be tough for them to make the argument to start over with another rookie QB ..

 
Too early to tell, but there are two major red flags right now.

1. Very low completion percentage (53.5% on the season).

2. Very low yards per attempt (5.8) on the season.

True, he hasn't played a full season, but the long term outlook does not often bode well for QBs that complete a low percentage of their passes and struggle to get the ball downfield (see Derek Anderson). Aside from 4 more TDs, Thigpen's #s are very similiar to JaMarcus Russell's.

 
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greenf7cat said:
Sanboy said:
and K.C homers out there ..
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It's just unbelievable, to say the least, on the progress he has made since his first start agains Atl. Against Atl, he was by far the worst QB in football and has become servicable at this point. Every throw he made was to the wrong shoulder, high, and extremely too hard.Since then, he has become very aware of coverages, has added a touch to his passes, and has thrown strikes when needed....granted, I would like to see him throw down field more and give DBowe the ability to run after catch, but that will come with experience.The greatest thing he has coming to him going forward is that he has the next 6 games to get better, as there is no competition behind him. The Chiefs will give him every snap to prove what he can do, pending any unforseen injury.I am not saying that he is going to be the next greatest thing at his position, but the sheer improvement he has made from his first start up to his 5th has been remarkable.I do not forsee the spread/shotgun formation working forever, as defenses will figure him out (i.e. see Derek Anderson), but maybe, just maybe, this will give him a comfort level going forward to understand defenses and play this position at a competitive level once he does have to go under center more regularly.
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I haven't seen a game recently. The only game I've seen of Thigpen was early in the year against OAK I think. Man oh man, he was horrible that game. Easily the worst QB play I've seen all year, he should of had 5 interceptions in that game. I came away with an opinion that he's inaccurate and makes bad decisions. He has improved leaps and bounds with the new system, a total about-face in production. I think he is a good buy for dynasty. My initial reaction was Herm would make them conservative and they will definitely TRY to be. But when things go wrong and they probably will, they're going to go right back to this attack because it works. Maybe just maybe the Chiefs can coach-up the dropping back and reading the defense part of the game. I was thinking, this could be a problem with the team wanting to smash-mouth Larry Johnson though, just don't see LJ being a shotgun back. Charles is quicker and might be better used in that formation. But yeah, Thigpen is a buy now. Easily the favortie next year
 
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