Punxsutawney Phil
Footballguy
What a mess. We basically took the country over and rebuilt it, then hand it over to Iran.
This particular thing is Trump's mess. The Iraqis had been protesting against Iran. Now, they're protesting against the US. This was beyond dumb, we the US bombed militias that helped us in the fight against AQ and ISIS.What a mess. We basically took the country over and rebuilt it, then hand it over to Iran.
Also Trump abandoned one of the few allies we had in the region, and I'm sure that didn't help matters.This particular thing is Trump's mess. The Iraqis had been protesting against Iran. Now, they're protesting against the US. This was beyond dumb, we the US bombed militias that helped us in the fight against AQ and ISIS.
It is probably Iran behind the attack, but Iraqi security did nothing to stop the protesters from entering the Green Zone.
I’m not as educated as I should be on this:This particular thing is Trump's mess. The Iraqis had been protesting against Iran. Now, they're protesting against the US. This was beyond dumb, we the US bombed militias that helped us in the fight against AQ and ISIS.
It used to be something like this was an attack against all Americans. Nowadays, I guess we need to just pile on the president if we don't like him. Rather than coming together in these situations...What a mess. We basically took the country over and rebuilt it, then hand it over to Iran.
The latter is a really important pointIt is probably Iran behind the attack, but Iraqi security did nothing to stop the protesters from entering the Green Zone.
I don't see any mention of Trump in that quoted text. Do you not agree that it is a ####### mess over there? Nothing has truly gotten better since the war and there is still potential for it to get much worse.It used to be something like this was an attack against all Americans. Nowadays, I guess we need to just pile on the president if we don't like him. Rather than coming together in these situations...
I agree with you. I was dumbfounded when the deaths at Benghazi were immediately turned into a partisan attack against Obama and Hillary Clinton that went on for 3 years. It was dumb and ugly and no doubt will influence attitudes this time around.It used to be something like this was an attack against all Americans. Nowadays, I guess we need to just pile on the president if we don't like him. Rather than coming together in these situations...
The Trump situation (fill in the blank) has meant people aren’t paying attention to other world events, but this has been simmering.I’m not as educated as I should be on this:
1. What did Trump do wrong? And were the wrong actions deliberate or well intentioned errors?
2. What should we do now?
Well.... kinda. I'm not really of the opinion that Kata'ib Hezbollah so much "helped us" as "also fought against ISIS." It's true that they and Peshmerga are occasionally on the same side of the battlefield, but only because they're both against ISIS. KH is not on the U.S. side, it just happens to also want ISIS eradicated. Shia/Sunni issue, not an anti-terrorist/terrorist issue.This particular thing is Trump's mess. The Iraqis had been protesting against Iran. Now, they're protesting against the US. This was beyond dumb, we the US bombed militias that helped us in the fight against AQ and ISIS.
Yep, agree, thanks.Well.... kinda. I'm not really of the opinion that Kata'ib Hezbollah so much "helped us" as "also fought against ISIS." It's true that they and Peshmerga are occasionally on the same side of the battlefield, but only because they're both against ISIS. KH is not on the U.S. side, it just happens to also want ISIS eradicated. Shia/Sunni issue, not an anti-terrorist/terrorist issue.
I assume the President and others have been paying attention to this.The Trump situation (fill in the blank) has meant people aren’t paying attention to other world events, but this has been simmering.
We the US just bombed/attacked Iran aligned militias in western Iraq. Iirc this is considered reprisal for acts by Iran in KSA, but please feel free to correct me on that.
Intentional. Trump canned McGurk and people like that who really understand this situation and I’m not sure he listens to whoever’s left.
Well we should be balancing our interests in Iraq and preserving what we’ve done there that’s good above everything else. Our provoking the people against us probably isn’t that.
If Trump was paying attention McGurk would still be there.I assume the President and others have been paying attention to this.
What planet have you been living on?I assume the President and others have been paying attention to this.
One could argue this started under Bush, "simmered" through the Obama administration, and here we are today under Trump.
I assure you though, it's an American problem. Not a Trump problem. Not an Obama problem. Not a Democrat or Republican problem.
I’ll just point out that increased Iran influence was baked in when we went in under Bush. It was said then. The Post 1919 borders were drawn to minimize Shia influence and the Baathists came to power because the borders and demographic mix weren’t enough. Ugly truth. We can’t sit on this country and suppress every flare up to infinity and that was never authorized in the first place.One could argue this started under Bush,
Whatever others remain after many were removed and replaced with sycophants or "acting" positions are most likely paying attention to it, maybe. The preponderance of evidence for Trump suggests that he doesn't fully understand the nuances of the region and doesn't pay attention to anything that isn't on TV all the time.I assume the President and others have been paying attention to this.
While true, this may also be true of every President we’ve ever had.The preponderance of evidence for Trump suggests that he doesn't fully understand the nuances of the region
Not even close to the same thing and you know it. Nobody knows everything about a subject this complicated, of course, but this particular President has shown less foundational knowledge, and no ability or desire to learn more, than all of those who preceded him by a factor of a billion.While true, this may also be true of every President we’ve ever had.
I just don't understand how you're close enough to the situation to understand his ability or want to learn.Not even close to the same thing and you know it. Nobody knows everything about a subject this complicated, of course, but this particular President has shown less foundational knowledge, and no ability or desire to learn more, than all of those who preceded him by a factor of a billion.
I'm going by everything he's ever said, written/tweeted, and from pretty much all accounts of his capacity to learn from those who have known him (and aren't still relying on him for paychecks somehow.). He has never demonstrated the ability to move into nuanced areas on anything.I just don't understand how you're close enough to the situation to understand his ability or want to learn.
I think Bush started the boulder rolling. Obama didn't do anything to stop it, and now today when Trump's president--you're just all to happy to make it his failure.
And you’re equally happy to make it not his failure. It’s a little more complicated than either attitude.I just don't understand how you're close enough to the situation to understand his ability or want to learn.
I think Bush started the boulder rolling. Obama didn't do anything to stop it, and now today when Trump's president--you're just all to happy to make it his failure.
He didn’t say rise up; he wrote “this is your time.” Nonetheless it seems dangerous to me. Is he directing this to the Sunnis?Trump is now tweeting for the Iraqi citizens to rise up so they have their freedom and not influenced by Iran.
So, he is telling the Iraqi citizens to revolt against the Iraqi government?
Thought they were are allies.
I'm sorry if I gave you or any of the other posters to that impression. I think Trump definitely has some fault in this.And you’re equally happy to make it not his failure. It’s a little more complicated than either attitude.
I agree with you that we shouldn’t turn this into a “blame Trump” game, when IMO the main long term fault is Bush’s and Obama has some responsibility as well.
But I also agree with @McBokonon- I am highly uncomfortable with Trump as our commander in chief in this or any other high stress situation- I regard him as both ignorant and incompetent and would vastly prefer either Bush or Obama- at least I could trust them to listen to educated advisors. Nonetheless this is where we are so I hope for the best.
This tweet towards Donald in this tweet thread is interesting....Trump is now tweeting for the Iraqi citizens to rise up so they have their freedom and not influenced by Iran.
So, he is telling the Iraqi citizens to revolt against the Iraqi government?
Thought they were are allies.
I'm sure he Face-timed with Ivanka.He sent that tweet from the golf course. I wonder if he discussed this with his military and foreign policy advisors beforehand?
We're still talking about Iraq, right?Basically we ignored the warnings of Winston Churchill and forced an uneducated, divided population to be a “democracy”. The result was predictable: all the Shiites voted for Shiites, and since there are more Shiites than Sunnis the Shiites took over. They immediately allied themselves with Iran and began persecuting the Sunnis. Now they have a dictatorship and there are no free elections.
Not sure I agree with your characterization of blame here, but unquestionably Bush should shoulder the majority of the blame for everything in Iraq right now. However, the question of Trump's ability or desire to learn about what's going on in the Middle East is at least in part a matter of public record. From moving the Embassy in Israel to his actions in Syria, to misrepresentation of intelligence regarding Iran much of this year, he has demonstrated either an inability or an unwillingness to understand the obvious consequences of his actions and inactions.I just don't understand how you're close enough to the situation to understand his ability or want to learn.
I think Bush started the boulder rolling. Obama didn't do anything to stop it, and now today when Trump's president--you're just all to happy to make it his failure.
Stay on the course. Hell can we build a wall around the golf course during this time. Let the big boys handle the situationHe sent that tweet from the golf course. I wonder if he discussed this with his military and foreign policy advisors beforehand?
I think the lying about the YouTube video was what triggered the partisan fight just to correct you there.I agree with you. I was dumbfounded when the deaths at Benghazi were immediately turned into a partisan attack against Obama and Hillary Clinton that went on for 3 years. It was dumb and ugly and no doubt will influence attitudes this time around.
I’ve personally talked to multiple Congressmen who are Trump supporters who say flat out that Trump doesn’t read in an effort to educate himself on the issues. At all. Again, these aren’t anti-Trumpers, these are supporters (Duncan Hunter is one) who told me that at most, they hope to get him to read a one page, 3-5 bullet point synopsis of foreign policy.I just don't understand how you're close enough to the situation to understand his ability or want to learn.
I think Bush started the boulder rolling. Obama didn't do anything to stop it, and now today when Trump's president--you're just all to happy to make it his failure.
I am constantly amazed at the depth and breadth of your knowledge, and Henry's. I presume you each to be insomniacs who read news and opinion sources all night while the rest of us sleep.Yep, agree, thanks.
Alternatively, we are in the matrix and they are outside loading programs as need be...I am constantly amazed at the depth and breadth of your knowledge, and Henry's. I presume you each to be insomniacs who read news and opinion sources all night while the rest of us sleep.