rockaction
Footballguy
Here's the place to list UDFA signings. It'll begin soon.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
UDFAs -- About Time To List Them Along With The Teams Signing Them (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rockaction
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
Eagles signed Carson Strong, QB, and Kennedy Brooks, RB.
What a pull!
What a pull!
Blue Thunder
Footballguy
TE Jalen Wydermeyer to the Bills
RB Abram Smith to the Saints
WR Kevin Austin to the Jaguars
RB C.J. Verdell to the Colts
RB Max Borghi to the Colts
QB Carson Strong to the Eagles
RB Zonovan "Bam" Knight to the Jets
RB Kennedy Brooks to the Eagles
RB Abram Smith to the Saints
WR Kevin Austin to the Jaguars
RB C.J. Verdell to the Colts
RB Max Borghi to the Colts
QB Carson Strong to the Eagles
RB Zonovan "Bam" Knight to the Jets
RB Kennedy Brooks to the Eagles
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Kellen Diesch-OT ASU signed with the Miami Dolphins
PFF had him #77 Overall on their board.
PFF had him #77 Overall on their board.
Blue Thunder
Footballguy
wgoldsph
Footballguy
I like the signing of Strong but yeesh could anyone be more stylistically different than Hurts?
rockaction
Footballguy
It seems to be because of Hurts. I think Philly's adjustment period to him last year speaks to that.
Zaquandre White, SC, has good size but not speed or lateral quickness per metrics. But his vision and shifiness are very good on film. Just an oft-injured Mostert and smaller Chase Edmonds in front him IMO.
https://youtu.be/LVlxf2j6GOI
https://youtu.be/LVlxf2j6GOI
wgoldsph
Footballguy
That's my point though, a good team builds around the pieces they have. Look at the ravens with Jackson or the patriots any year. A bad one either tries to change their players to their system or changes it just enough so that they can quickly change back if things don't work out. I know the eagles are still "undecided" on Hurts as the long term answer but the coaching staff needs to decide what brand of football they want to play.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Nothing on Justyn Ross yet?
rockaction
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
RB-ZaQuandre White signed by the Miami Dolphins
FSU transfer to South Carolina.
Had a couple nice games vs Florida and Auburn, also can catch the ball. 6.6 ypc on limited touches, I would bet he will make waves in Dolphins camps over the summer.
FSU transfer to South Carolina.
Had a couple nice games vs Florida and Auburn, also can catch the ball. 6.6 ypc on limited touches, I would bet he will make waves in Dolphins camps over the summer.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
if you're in a return yardage league keep an eye on Kalil Pimpleton (Central Michigan) who signed with Detroit
16-304-19.0 would have led the nation in average but he didn't have enough returns to quality (leader was 15.5)
5'9" 172 size kept him from being drafted, only 4.49 but he's quick
8 TDs - 4 receiving, 2 rushing, 2 punt returns
16-304-19.0 would have led the nation in average but he didn't have enough returns to quality (leader was 15.5)
5'9" 172 size kept him from being drafted, only 4.49 but he's quick
8 TDs - 4 receiving, 2 rushing, 2 punt returns
wgoldsph
Footballguy
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
If anyone wants to get a petition going for a team to bring in Justyn Ross I'll sign it.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Heading to Bucs rookie camp. Glad to see he’s getting a chance to show what he can do.
was really hoping Aqeel Glass would be drafted. Or at least signed quickly.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
ZWK
Footballguy
The Spotrac UDFA tracker is slower to update than most trackers, but it includes contract info. Amount of guaranteed money is like draft capital for UDFAs; the NFL essentially switches to an auction format after round 7.
So far the highest guaranteed money for players at fantasy positions is
$222K RB Abram Smith NO
$222K WR Rashid Shaheed NO
$118K WR Ra'Shaun Henry CAR
Probably $222K will be among the highest guarantees this year. It's more than any UDFA got after the draft last year (max was $200K to Kenny Yeboah), but UDFA guarantees have been rising rapidly over the past few years so we can't be sure that it'll even be in the top 10 this year.
Love the combination of talent, contract, and landing spot for Abram Smith. (Relative to other UDFAs, that is.)
Edit: found a few more here
$320K QB Carson Strong PHI
$100K RB Greg Ball DET
$100K TE Derrick Deese DET
So far the highest guaranteed money for players at fantasy positions is
$222K RB Abram Smith NO
$222K WR Rashid Shaheed NO
$118K WR Ra'Shaun Henry CAR
Probably $222K will be among the highest guarantees this year. It's more than any UDFA got after the draft last year (max was $200K to Kenny Yeboah), but UDFA guarantees have been rising rapidly over the past few years so we can't be sure that it'll even be in the top 10 this year.
Love the combination of talent, contract, and landing spot for Abram Smith. (Relative to other UDFAs, that is.)
Edit: found a few more here
$320K QB Carson Strong PHI
$100K RB Greg Ball DET
$100K TE Derrick Deese DET
Last edited by a moderator:
nittanylion
Footballguy
Commanders sign Cole Kelley, QB SE Louisiana. A long shot for sure, likely just a camp arm, but I think the kid has some intriguing qualities.
bro1ncos
IBL Representative
Chiefs....
I would say that this is a great example, that for some players, it is better to be a UDFA and have some control where you end up versus getting drafted in the 6th or 7th round.
Not many better situations for a WR.
ZWK
Footballguy
Up to 10 UDFAs at fantasy positions who got at least $100K guaranteed.
$320K QB Carson Strong PHI
$240K RB Kennedy Brooks PHI
$230K WR Kevin Austin JAC
$222K WR Rashid Shaheed NO
$222K RB Abram Smith NO
$125K TE Curtis Hodges WAS
$117K WR Ra'Shaun Henry CAR
$100K TE Derrick Deese DET
$100K RB D’Vonte Price IND
$100K RB Greg Bell DET
I've bolded my 2 favorites, Kennedy Brooks & Abram Smith.
Some contracts still haven't been reported yet.
$320K QB Carson Strong PHI
$240K RB Kennedy Brooks PHI
$230K WR Kevin Austin JAC
$222K WR Rashid Shaheed NO
$222K RB Abram Smith NO
$125K TE Curtis Hodges WAS
$117K WR Ra'Shaun Henry CAR
$100K TE Derrick Deese DET
$100K RB D’Vonte Price IND
$100K RB Greg Bell DET
I've bolded my 2 favorites, Kennedy Brooks & Abram Smith.
Some contracts still haven't been reported yet.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Sigmond likes him.
------------------------------
FBG Clips@FBGClips
@SigmundBloom, @CecilLammey, & @MattWaldman
have a rookie RB in mind for your dynasty teams. Pay attention to the Alvin Kamara case! #NFL >Best #FantasyFootball articles: http://footballguys.com/join >Shows: http://youtube.com/footballguys From@TheAudible
LIVE! Best Rookie Landing Spots:
LINK to clip
------------------------------------
Abram Smith RB Baylor
HEIGHT 6' 0" WEIGHT 213 lbs
Overview
Big, tough prospect who went from running back to linebacker and then back to running back during his collegiate career. Smith proved a formidable fit in Baylor's zone scheme with a patient but decisive approach and a natural feel for cutback lanes. He became more comfortable in stretch plays as the season wore on but his average burst and linear running style make it easier for linebackers to find him. He has adequate contact balance and gives as good as he gets as a run finisher. Smith's lack of short-area creativity could make him zone-dependent, but he's a natural in that scheme. He has the upside to become a committee back with three-down potential.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Based on what I've gathered from the podcasts, I think Waldman would agree on Smith, double down on Kennedy Brooks, and add Carson Strong, Kalil Pimpleton, and ZaQuandre White. Greatly appreciate the guaranteed money figures; I've been meaning to look for this.
I wonder how many 7th rounders will get guarantees north of $200K? I was probably looking at dated information, but I thought I saw $35K to $100K as a typical range for guaranteed 7th round money in a fairly recent draft. Are the top unsigned players in a better position to command guaranteed money? Clearly, they would seem to have a lot more leverage as UDFAs, in addition to one less year of team control. I wonder if some of these guys (Brooks, Smith, Strong) would have been 6th or 7th rounders, but put the word out not to draft them late?
Why would a team that has interest in those players not draft them? Isn't drafting them more of a benefit to the team than letting them go UDFA? I just don't see why a team wouldn't draft a player in the 7th round because that player said don't draft me. This makes no sense to me.
ZWK
Footballguy
Spotrac also has the rookie wage scale here. The signing bonus appears to be the only guaranteed money. Zero 7th rounders get $200K.
These guys are getting guarantees equivalent to:
$320K QB Carson Strong PHI - rookie pick 159 (mid 5th)
$240K RB Kennedy Brooks PHI - rookie pick 179-180 (between rd5 & rd6)
$230K WR Kevin Austin JAC - rookie pick 179-180 (between rd5 & rd6)
$222K WR Rashid Shaheed NO - rookie pick 179-180 (between rd5 & rd6)
$222K RB Abram Smith NO - rookie pick 179-180 (between rd5 & rd6)
$125K TE Curtis Hodges WAS - rookie pick 221-222 (between rd6 & rd7)
$117K WR Ra'Shaun Henry CAR - rookie pick 221-222 (between rd6 & rd7)
$100K TE Derrick Deese DET - rookie pick 235 (mid 7th)
$100K RB D’Vonte Price IND - rookie pick 235 (mid 7th)
$100K RB Greg Bell DET - rookie pick 235 (mid 7th)
Guarantees for Pimpleton & ZaQuandre White aren't public yet. (At least I think that's what it means for UDFAs with no guarantee listed on Spotrac, since the number of guys who do have a guarantee listed is way smaller than the number who got guarantees in recent years.)
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Let's put it this way, there's plenty of give and take that's going on behind the scenes between teams and agents. It was somewhat surprising to see Purdy drafted in the 7th and for Carson Strong to go undrafted. The consensus opinion of most of the analysts I would trust seemed to be that Strong was a much more promising QB prospect. When you see the guaranteed money, it kind of puts things back in place. Guaranteed money / signing bonus isn't everything if you're a late round / undrafted NFL prospect, but it's big. Purdy is getting $86K guaranteed in his signing bonus as a 7th rounder (also some nice perks for being Mr. Irrelevant). As an undrafted free agent, Strong is getting $320K guaranteed, which is below Sam Howell's contract at the top of the 5th round, but not that far off. More than likely, Strong and his agent probably had a very good idea of what they could get on the open market as an UDFA, if not the exact number. My hunch is that Strong wasn't on the couch nervously watching the last pick, saying please don't draft me! Please don't draft me!
The valuation of Strong as an UDFA probably got out to NFL war rooms, along with a polite request (spoken by the agent, or possibly implicit) to either draft my guy in the 5th or make a bid for him in the "8th round". If you're a team, the agent probably represents some other clients that might have a higher profile. And if you have a spot for a developmental QB and like Strong enough to put him in that role, robbing the kid of well-earned financial security by taking him as a 7th rounder probably isn't the first impression you want to make as an organization.
So yeah, most of the UDFAs probably would have loved to be drafted in the 7th round. However, for the priority UDFAs getting more guaranteed money than the $77-116K that's slotted in as the signing bonus for 7th round picks, these guys are worth noting. It's probably not a situation where Strong wasn't good enough to get drafted. It's probably a situation where he had too much leverage to get drafted as a 7th rounder. I've heard a lot of interest in Kennedy Brooks and Abram Smith as undrafted sleepers from analysts I trust. However, I have to admit that when I hear those praises, I'm talking back to the podcast asking why no other NFL team bothered to draft them late. However, when you see the guaranteed money Brooks and Smith got as UDFAs, it puts things in perspective and gives some more credibility to the positive buzz they're getting. I shouldn't be sticking them in the same tier as CJ Verdell, another UDFA that got a much smaller signing bonus. In fact, the guaranteed money would say that they were probably more coveted RB prospects than a 7th rounder like Pacheco (probably a bad example, because I've heard plenty of good things said about Pacheco).
The UDFA contract details are really important when trying to craft rankings for late round dart throws in rookie drafts.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
@sushinsky4tsarand anyone else with an interest in this aspect of the draft/post draft UDFA rush—
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/whats-it-like-to-be-an-agent-on-day-3-of-the-nfl-draft-a-behind-the-scenes-look-at-a-wild-day-of-phone-calls-deep-breaths-and-money-made/
This article starts slow but gets very interesting, feel free to skip towards the end for the juicy stuff but this basically shows how an agent plays teams at the end of the draft into either drafting their guy to ensure they get him—or lose him as a priority UDFA. There’s definitely some leverage at play in these situations but seeing it play out from the agent’s perspective in this article is fascinating. People were contacting him about his 7th round/UDFA client as early as the 4th-5th round to keep in touch and check in on the interest others teams were showing etc.
Anyways, this is very relevant to your post above so I thought you’d like it.
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/whats-it-like-to-be-an-agent-on-day-3-of-the-nfl-draft-a-behind-the-scenes-look-at-a-wild-day-of-phone-calls-deep-breaths-and-money-made/
This article starts slow but gets very interesting, feel free to skip towards the end for the juicy stuff but this basically shows how an agent plays teams at the end of the draft into either drafting their guy to ensure they get him—or lose him as a priority UDFA. There’s definitely some leverage at play in these situations but seeing it play out from the agent’s perspective in this article is fascinating. People were contacting him about his 7th round/UDFA client as early as the 4th-5th round to keep in touch and check in on the interest others teams were showing etc.
Anyways, this is very relevant to your post above so I thought you’d like it.
Last edited by a moderator:
So what you are saying is there is league wide collusion going on to award these type of players more money and to risk them being able to sign with any of the other 31 teams by letting them go to free agency instead of drafting them?
I understand some players may want to go undrafted for the reasons you stated (more money in signing bonus than a 7th round draft pick) however I really don't understand why the 32 teams would collude to not draft a guy only to have to pay them more money and risk them going somewhere else. The logistics of that makes no sense to me.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Great read. It would have been interesting to see what kind of UDFA contract Horvath would have received if not drafted at the end of the 7th, but obviously there's no way to know. There's a quote from the agent about the misconception that agents would rather have their players go to free agency than drafted in the 7th. Muir was clearly working the phones to get his client drafted in the 7th.
I think that for the vast majority of UDFAs, the preference would definitely be getting drafted in the 7th. However, for Strong, Abram, Brooks, that probably wasn't the case (probably by the end of the 5th for Strong, and end of the 6th for Brooks and Smith).
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Carson Strong as the example for this very small minority of UDFAs that probably reached a point in the draft where they would have preferred not to be selected....
The agent was probably well aware of what guaranteed money Strong would get on UDFA market (north of $300K guaranteed, if not the exact number of $320K). I believe that the actual salary, including the non-guaranteed portion, is pretty uniform for all UDFAs, and a little bit less than that of 7th round selections. The tradeoff is that they're one year closer to free agency if they hit and get to choose their destination. Regardless, the guaranteed / signing bonus portion of the contract is the big variable with the UDFA contract and can greatly exceed the number slotted in to 7th round selections.
This figure was probably communicated to the handful of teams that showed interest in Strong. Hence, it was probably implied, if not explicitly stated by the agent, that teams wouldn't be doing Strong any favors by taking him in the 7th or maybe even the back half of the 6th. Perhaps the Eagles gave some thought to using a 5th or moving up early in the 6th to secure his rights and decided to go in another direction, risking losing him to another team. Perhaps another team gave serious consideration to sniping him in the late 5th / early 6th. Again, they were probably well aware that they wouldn't be doing Strong any favors by grabbing one of the last 7th round selections to slot him in at an $80K signing bonus, well short of the $300K+ guaranteed money that everyone was probably well aware of.
I'm sure teams have done it, but if you're Strong and his agent, you will probably remember it when the kid sticks as a desirable backup, or even a potential starter, and comes up for free agency. Your team cost him the security of a lot of guaranteed money at the point in his career when he's most vulnerable and has the most to lose. I think most teams would prefer not to make that impression on their new developmental QB, and either spend the 5th rounder, or get him his guaranteed money as an UDFA. Eagles probably had some idea that they were Carson's preferred landing spot (especially considering the uncertainty of Hurts), and probably knew that any well run NFL team was unlikely to come out of nowhere and snag him in the 7th. And what do the Eagles really lose by not taking him in the 7th? His actual salary is a bit less than a 7th rounder, assuming he sticks around for a few years. If he's a flop, it's not like the the $320K guaranteed money is going to kill their cap space (in fact, might not even count against it). They do lose one year of team control, which is definitely something, but so is making your new developmental QB happy and giving him the security of knowing he has $320K in the bank if his NFL career is a complete flop.
How important is guaranteed money compared to the best landing spot for climbing the depth chart? Both are important. It's probably going to vary player from player. I don't know how much money Carson was clearing making appearances signing footballs at Reno car dealerships his senior year. There might also be some unique insurance policies that offer some security to NFL QB prospects with a snowball's chance of clearing $100s of millions in their career if they hit big. A lot of NFL level QBs come from money, but I have no clue what Strong's background is. Regardless, I think Philly is a pretty good landing spot if you're a late round / undrafted QB with some talent. Clearly he did well with the guaranteed portion of the contract.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
I will amend a couple of things from the above based on a fansided article on Strong. Eagles had no assurances that Strong would be there's on the UDFA market. Again, if they really had to have him, they probably use a 5th or early 6th on him. They initially agreed to terms with Ivy League QB EJ Perry on a UDFA deal for less guarantees. Then Carson Strong gave him is acceptance on the 3-year UDFA, $20K signing bonus plus $300K guaranteed salary, which makes up the $320K guaranteed number. Consequently, EJ Brown is now signing with the Jags.
For comparison, based on spotrac info, it seems Purdy (end of rd 7) is set to make a signing bonus of $86K, on a 4-year deal. However, this $86K signing bonus is the only guaranteed portion of his salary (if I'm following correctly).
For further comparison, Sam Howell (top of rd 5), has a signing bonus of $362K on a 4-year deal. Again, this should be the only portion that's guaranteed to him.
A little surprised to the see that the base salary (again, mostly non-guaranteed) is the same for all of these guys years 1 ($705K) through 3 ($985K). The drafted guys are under team control year 4 for $1.1M.
For comparison, based on spotrac info, it seems Purdy (end of rd 7) is set to make a signing bonus of $86K, on a 4-year deal. However, this $86K signing bonus is the only guaranteed portion of his salary (if I'm following correctly).
For further comparison, Sam Howell (top of rd 5), has a signing bonus of $362K on a 4-year deal. Again, this should be the only portion that's guaranteed to him.
A little surprised to the see that the base salary (again, mostly non-guaranteed) is the same for all of these guys years 1 ($705K) through 3 ($985K). The drafted guys are under team control year 4 for $1.1M.
Last edited by a moderator:
Sushinsky great numbers work. It's been this way for a long time. Last CBA many expected this to increase to make a clearer delineation between UDFAs and later rounds but the owners balked because obviously it trickles down from the top rookies to get to those numbers.
Alex McGough is one of the most fascinating players of the last so many years, especially for someone that doesn't play. He had some GMs raving about him predraft. He had ol Butch Davis calling him the best QB he ever coached. He went undrafted. He'd get to the Seahawks and be absolutely adored- obviously no chance in unseating Wilson and he had some development inexperience issues so a clear third string too. Late that year they would cut him on Saturday and re-sign him on Monday to be sure to keep him around.
He asked and got his release and went to the Jags. He beat out two drafted QBs- late picks or not, that doesn't happen. He was looking like he could even push the starter. He had a poor end to preseason and Minshew mania caught on as Foles squandered. He got released with a plan for the PS but tons of teams put a claim in for him.
He went to Houston and they paid him more than any PS player in NFL history so other teams wouldn't match and he wouldn't be inclined to leave for a better offer.
He has still never played an NFL game. It's the damndest thing. Why do they all clearly like him sooo much and yet not play him?
He's currently in the USFL and I expect he'll sign with the Seahawks after. If there was a fun lottery pick type bet, I'd totally bet it on him but obviously I expect him not to play again.
If you want to see #s of contracts and team interest, McGough is a fascinating read.
Alex McGough is one of the most fascinating players of the last so many years, especially for someone that doesn't play. He had some GMs raving about him predraft. He had ol Butch Davis calling him the best QB he ever coached. He went undrafted. He'd get to the Seahawks and be absolutely adored- obviously no chance in unseating Wilson and he had some development inexperience issues so a clear third string too. Late that year they would cut him on Saturday and re-sign him on Monday to be sure to keep him around.
He asked and got his release and went to the Jags. He beat out two drafted QBs- late picks or not, that doesn't happen. He was looking like he could even push the starter. He had a poor end to preseason and Minshew mania caught on as Foles squandered. He got released with a plan for the PS but tons of teams put a claim in for him.
He went to Houston and they paid him more than any PS player in NFL history so other teams wouldn't match and he wouldn't be inclined to leave for a better offer.
He has still never played an NFL game. It's the damndest thing. Why do they all clearly like him sooo much and yet not play him?
He's currently in the USFL and I expect he'll sign with the Seahawks after. If there was a fun lottery pick type bet, I'd totally bet it on him but obviously I expect him not to play again.
If you want to see #s of contracts and team interest, McGough is a fascinating read.
Titans UDFA Roberson looks like a player. His injury history knocked him out of the draft according to many, but he's got a good complete game to him.
It won't take you but a few minutes on YouTube to see this guy's fine, does everything, why wasn't he drafted?
We'll see. I don't know him to project a thing but he's probably got a decent path to opportunity while most UDFA WRs only get the last few reps at the end of practice and do not.
It won't take you but a few minutes on YouTube to see this guy's fine, does everything, why wasn't he drafted?
We'll see. I don't know him to project a thing but he's probably got a decent path to opportunity while most UDFA WRs only get the last few reps at the end of practice and do not.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Interesting, I just watched this guy light up the Tampa Bay Bandits in primetime this weekend for the Birmingham Stallions.
...actually, a pretty ugly half from what I saw, but nice to know that their starting QBs are at least on NFL team radars. The USFL and CFL have to be salivating at the trickle down effect of what's supposed to be a stacked 2023 class.
Last edited by a moderator:
XFL and CFL are expected to merge.
My theory is USFL will fold a team or two into that league.
The Rock is really fascinating to listen to as was Andrew Luck's dad. Johnson is taking his time and researching with NFL, NFLE, XFL people and figuring out plans for road blocks. The XFL won't be hurt by some NFL owner buying in and shutting it down behind the scenes like last time. That was clever shady stuff.
Anywho, the USFL has some names attached to it and ....if my theory holds up, I'm excited for a sincere spring league with staying power.
The Rock already has agreements with the NFL- in principle, not hashed out. I could imagine some of the UDFAs in this thread get some minor league time.
joey
Footballguy
All reports on the inter webs say the XFL/CFL thing is dead.
your last sentence is what I’m really interested in and rooting for. I don’t care if it’s the XFL or USFL, I want one of them to become the official spring league of the NFL. UDFAs, college players who don’t make the pros, players who did make the NFL but flamed out quickly…all of those dudes combined could make a solid NFL-sanctioned spring league that launches on NFL draft day weekend and finishes in early July to hand off to NFL summer camps and pre-season. It’s almost too perfect.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bumping an old thread.
#USFL
@USFLStallions
athletic dual-threat quarterback and #USFL MVP Alex McGough, a two-time champion previously with #Seahawks #Texans #Jaguars has multiple upcoming #NFL workouts, per league sources, and has drawn interest from roughly a third of the league after throwing 20 TDs, rushing for 400 yards and five scores, and leading USFL in completion percentage and QB rating
@KPRC2
Nowhere else to put it on the board
John Ojukwo got more first team reps than anyone else at RT and did well. Vrabel real chummy like calling him OJ. He started a story "in my five now six years, we've had a lot of guys come in" then he stopped short. It was very much like Ojukwo is their steal of the draft process.
John Ojukwo got more first team reps than anyone else at RT and did well. Vrabel real chummy like calling him OJ. He started a story "in my five now six years, we've had a lot of guys come in" then he stopped short. It was very much like Ojukwo is their steal of the draft process.
Similar threads
