UNC Football and bball LOL (1 Viewer)

[Eastwood]

maybe we should just talk about basketball? As a Duke fan, I'm scared of Wake Forest this weekend. Hard to believe its been a DECADE since we've beaten them. A lot of very close games, but no wins.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

maybe we should just talk about basketball? As a Duke fan, I'm scared of Wake Forest this weekend. Hard to believe its been a DECADE since we've beaten them. A lot of very close games, but no wins.

LOL, there does seem to be less sniping in basketball threads compared to this one. What are the Blue Devil fans thoughts about Cutcliffe being there long term? Is there worry that he'll use Duke as a quick 4 year stepping stone or does it seem like he's in it for the long haul?

 

[Tau837]

I noticed you didn't touch my comment about recent investigations of three other state universities and whether or not their attorney generals got involved. Why is that?

I'm not familiar with other states' investigation decisions (to investigate or not). And, frankly, I don't think it is relevant. We're talking about one state, North Carolina. In the past, North Carolina handled this kind of situation in a specific way. If they choose to handle a similar situation differently today, I think it is reasonable for the rationale to be explained.

You also use the overly negative term "reject". No where in my post did I "reject" favoritism. I merely said I was leaning away from that suggestion.

I felt you also characterized it to intentionally make the notion of favoritism from state government representatives to one university over another sound silly, and that notion is what I reject.

I think it's clear that you and other State fans want to re-create the State investigation of 21 years ago right now, but with your biggest rival as the school being investigated. I think that expecting that is unreasonable as well as being obviously revenge-oriented. As I said in my post, the actions of my children are often unreasonable and revenge-oriented. So as with them, I'm not going to take their requests seriously. Sorry.

I think you are oversimplifying. I think what happened in 1989 was an unjustified witch hunt that tarnished one of the state's top universities and probably cost a substantial amount of dollars and resources. Unfortunately, it cannot be undone and is water under the bridge.Back then, if the subject came up as to whether or not two independent investigations were needed in addition to the NCAA and N.C. State internal investigations, I think the appropriate answer would have been no. The only allegations came from an ex student manager with an axe to grind. But they did it anyway. You're damn right many of those affiliated with N.C. State feel that State was unjustly screwed over and still have bitterness over it.But it's not like I'm suggesting I'd like to get revenge through an unjustified investigation into UNC. This is different. Coaches are involved. Agents are involved. Illegal payments/benefits to student-athletes are involved. Academic cheating/fraud is involved. None of those things were true in the 1989 situation. Furthermore, this is not all based on a single potentially unreliable source. From all appearances, this situation is much more serious. How can it not warrant a state investigation? Can the state be satisfied by placing all of its faith in the NCAA and the administrators of the university in question to find and rectify a lack of institutional control?I'm not hoping for UNC to get penalized unjustly. I want the truth to be determined and made public, and appropriate penalties to be implemented. Is that revenge? I don't see it that way.Anyway, I suppose I'll agree to disagree with you on this and stop debating it. What I think should happen certainly won't make a difference to what will happen.

 

[Sammy3469]

You think I'm yelling from rooftops? I have simply pointed out an obvious double standard and raised questions about it. Then I explained it when you asked. You think I'm being childish about it? That's disappointing, since I respect your opinions.By the way, I reject your notion that these investigations have become more commonplace and thus aren't pursued with the same level of effort nowadays. We're talking about investigations of state universities within the state of North Carolina. I'm not aware of any state university in North Carolina being investigated for serious allegations involving their athletic departments since 1989. Someone please correct me if I'm forgetting such instances.You reject the notion that favoritism can be shown as if it is an absurd notion. It happens every day at all levels of government, including state government. C.D. Spangler was the president of the UNC system back then, overseeing 16 campuses that included UNC and N.C. State. He publicly called for Valvano to be removed as AD back then. He is a UNC graduate. You don't think he could have been biased in any way? And that's just one example.Yes, things may have changed for various reasons. Most importantly, different people are in all relevant positions today, and different people can reasonably handle things differently. However, IMO these are legitimate questions that should be addressed given the past history within the state. If there is a reason to handle it differently this time, fine, let's hear it.

Well, as Tobias did, I'm not really talking about you when I say yelling from the rooftops. I'm talking more about patherclub. And I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I do think it's silly to continue to argue that the situations are the same and the investigations should be the same. I just don't agree that is necessarily true. I noticed you didn't touch my comment about recent investigations of three other state universities and whether or not their attorney generals got involved. Why is that? You also use the overly negative term "reject". No where in my post did I "reject" favoritism. I merely said I was leaning away from that suggestion. I think it's clear that you and other State fans want to re-create the State investigation of 21 years ago right now, but with your biggest rival as the school being investigated. I think that expecting that is unreasonable as well as being obviously revenge-oriented. As I said in my post, the actions of my children are often unreasonable and revenge-oriented. So as with them, I'm not going to take their requests seriously. Sorry.

FWIW, I think the Sos is involved for politics (ie increasing her profile for her Senate bid). Having said that, I also wouldn't shocked if there is a schism within UNC between those aligned with Baddour/boosters and those that don't like Davis, and getting her involved is there way of putting pressure on Baddour. She's really only looking at the agents involved and not so much the football/athletic program per se, so it may not amount to much anyway besides some headlines.Having said that, I also think UNC fans are living in a bit of a fantasy world if they don't think more is going to happen. So far the only thing UNC has released is Blake's cell phone log (and Baddour's response that they weren't monitoring their recruiting coordinators phone record is beyond comedic) with FOIA's still out there for the contents of his text messages and e-mails (and the time period they did disclose doesn't include either of the past 2 summers). 12 players have already been suspended and Baddour has said there are violations. It's not like there hasn't been a lot of fire already disclosed with a heck of a lot of smoke still out there (and that doesn't even get into the academic angle).

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I noticed you didn't touch my comment about recent investigations of three other state universities and whether or not their attorney generals got involved. Why is that?

I'm not familiar with other states' investigation decisions (to investigate or not). And, frankly, I don't think it is relevant. We're talking about one state, North Carolina. In the past, North Carolina handled this kind of situation in a specific way. If they choose to handle a similar situation differently today, I think it is reasonable for the rationale to be explained.

You also use the overly negative term "reject". No where in my post did I "reject" favoritism. I merely said I was leaning away from that suggestion.

I felt you also characterized it to intentionally make the notion of favoritism from state government representatives to one university over another sound silly, and that notion is what I reject.

I think it's clear that you and other State fans want to re-create the State investigation of 21 years ago right now, but with your biggest rival as the school being investigated. I think that expecting that is unreasonable as well as being obviously revenge-oriented. As I said in my post, the actions of my children are often unreasonable and revenge-oriented. So as with them, I'm not going to take their requests seriously. Sorry.

I think you are oversimplifying. I think what happened in 1989 was an unjustified witch hunt that tarnished one of the state's top universities and probably cost a substantial amount of dollars and resources. Unfortunately, it cannot be undone and is water under the bridge.Back then, if the subject came up as to whether or not two independent investigations were needed in addition to the NCAA and N.C. State internal investigations, I think the appropriate answer would have been no. The only allegations came from an ex student manager with an axe to grind. But they did it anyway. You're damn right many of those affiliated with N.C. State feel that State was unjustly screwed over and still have bitterness over it.But it's not like I'm suggesting I'd like to get revenge through an unjustified investigation into UNC. This is different. Coaches are involved. Agents are involved. Illegal payments/benefits to student-athletes are involved. Academic cheating/fraud is involved. None of those things were true in the 1989 situation. Furthermore, this is not all based on a single potentially unreliable source. From all appearances, this situation is much more serious. How can it not warrant a state investigation? Can the state be satisfied by placing all of its faith in the NCAA and the administrators of the university in question to find and rectify a lack of institutional control?I'm not hoping for UNC to get penalized unjustly. I want the truth to be determined and made public, and appropriate penalties to be implemented. Is that revenge? I don't see it that way.Anyway, I suppose I'll agree to disagree with you on this and stop debating it. What I think should happen certainly won't make a difference to what will happen.

LOL, I just edited my post because I didn't want to argue with you about it (now about Tasker getting into Canton....). I see your points. My main feeling is that although I understand rivalry and all that, it seems sad that something that was done unjustly to your university should be done unjustly to your rival university. Maybe the answer is that looking back on it, people see that the State investigation was way over the top and they don't want to do that again. Doesn't mean they are biased toward UNC. Anyway, hope you find what you're looking for in the end result of this. I doubt I will.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

One more quick post for precedence: The SMU "Death Penalty" hasn't been given by the NCAA since. That is not because no one else has done something like that since, it's because the NCAA realizes that it was way too much and unjust. I think I actually saw Miles Brand admit that several years back in an interview, but I may be mistaken.

 

[The Commish]

I noticed you didn't touch my comment about recent investigations of three other state universities and whether or not their attorney generals got involved. Why is that?

I'm not familiar with other states' investigation decisions (to investigate or not). And, frankly, I don't think it is relevant. We're talking about one state, North Carolina. In the past, North Carolina handled this kind of situation in a specific way. If they choose to handle a similar situation differently today, I think it is reasonable for the rationale to be explained.

You also use the overly negative term "reject". No where in my post did I "reject" favoritism. I merely said I was leaning away from that suggestion.

I felt you also characterized it to intentionally make the notion of favoritism from state government representatives to one university over another sound silly, and that notion is what I reject.

I think it's clear that you and other State fans want to re-create the State investigation of 21 years ago right now, but with your biggest rival as the school being investigated. I think that expecting that is unreasonable as well as being obviously revenge-oriented. As I said in my post, the actions of my children are often unreasonable and revenge-oriented. So as with them, I'm not going to take their requests seriously. Sorry.

I think you are oversimplifying. I think what happened in 1989 was an unjustified witch hunt that tarnished one of the state's top universities and probably cost a substantial amount of dollars and resources. Unfortunately, it cannot be undone and is water under the bridge.Back then, if the subject came up as to whether or not two independent investigations were needed in addition to the NCAA and N.C. State internal investigations, I think the appropriate answer would have been no. The only allegations came from an ex student manager with an axe to grind. But they did it anyway. You're damn right many of those affiliated with N.C. State feel that State was unjustly screwed over and still have bitterness over it.But it's not like I'm suggesting I'd like to get revenge through an unjustified investigation into UNC. This is different. Coaches are involved. Agents are involved. Illegal payments/benefits to student-athletes are involved. Academic cheating/fraud is involved. None of those things were true in the 1989 situation. Furthermore, this is not all based on a single potentially unreliable source. From all appearances, this situation is much more serious. How can it not warrant a state investigation? Can the state be satisfied by placing all of its faith in the NCAA and the administrators of the university in question to find and rectify a lack of institutional control?I'm not hoping for UNC to get penalized unjustly. I want the truth to be determined and made public, and appropriate penalties to be implemented. Is that revenge? I don't see it that way.Anyway, I suppose I'll agree to disagree with you on this and stop debating it. What I think should happen certainly won't make a difference to what will happen.

Did you stop to think for a second that maybe the state got involved with the NCSU investigation because it wasn't clear cut and the NCAA could easily screw it up or that they realized they screwed the pooch and don't want the same thing to happen again? In my mind, the state already knows what needs to be done to UNC...it's that obvious. I suspect they would get involved if the NCAA gets it wrong. It would be an unbelievable display of ineptitude if they did. Regardless, I fail to see the point of asking UNC fans about the state's actions. Only people from the state can answer those questions. I doubt ConstruxBoy has any more insight into the ways of the state than you or me.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I noticed you didn't touch my comment about recent investigations of three other state universities and whether or not their attorney generals got involved. Why is that?

I'm not familiar with other states' investigation decisions (to investigate or not). And, frankly, I don't think it is relevant. We're talking about one state, North Carolina. In the past, North Carolina handled this kind of situation in a specific way. If they choose to handle a similar situation differently today, I think it is reasonable for the rationale to be explained.

You also use the overly negative term "reject". No where in my post did I "reject" favoritism. I merely said I was leaning away from that suggestion.

I felt you also characterized it to intentionally make the notion of favoritism from state government representatives to one university over another sound silly, and that notion is what I reject.

I think it's clear that you and other State fans want to re-create the State investigation of 21 years ago right now, but with your biggest rival as the school being investigated. I think that expecting that is unreasonable as well as being obviously revenge-oriented. As I said in my post, the actions of my children are often unreasonable and revenge-oriented. So as with them, I'm not going to take their requests seriously. Sorry.

I think you are oversimplifying. I think what happened in 1989 was an unjustified witch hunt that tarnished one of the state's top universities and probably cost a substantial amount of dollars and resources. Unfortunately, it cannot be undone and is water under the bridge.Back then, if the subject came up as to whether or not two independent investigations were needed in addition to the NCAA and N.C. State internal investigations, I think the appropriate answer would have been no. The only allegations came from an ex student manager with an axe to grind. But they did it anyway. You're damn right many of those affiliated with N.C. State feel that State was unjustly screwed over and still have bitterness over it.But it's not like I'm suggesting I'd like to get revenge through an unjustified investigation into UNC. This is different. Coaches are involved. Agents are involved. Illegal payments/benefits to student-athletes are involved. Academic cheating/fraud is involved. None of those things were true in the 1989 situation. Furthermore, this is not all based on a single potentially unreliable source. From all appearances, this situation is much more serious. How can it not warrant a state investigation? Can the state be satisfied by placing all of its faith in the NCAA and the administrators of the university in question to find and rectify a lack of institutional control?I'm not hoping for UNC to get penalized unjustly. I want the truth to be determined and made public, and appropriate penalties to be implemented. Is that revenge? I don't see it that way.Anyway, I suppose I'll agree to disagree with you on this and stop debating it. What I think should happen certainly won't make a difference to what will happen.

Did you stop to think for a second that maybe the state got involved with the NCSU investigation because it wasn't clear cut and the NCAA could easily screw it up? In my mind, the state already knows what needs to be done to UNC...it's that obvious. I suspect they would get involved if the NCAA gets it wrong. It would be an unbelievable display of ineptitude if they did. Regardless, I fail to see the point of asking UNC fans about the state's actions. Only people from the state can answer those questions. I doubt ConstruxBoy has any more insight into the ways of the state than you or me.

As people on this site have found, I have no insight into anything.

 

[Sammy3469]

Did you stop to think for a second that maybe the state got involved with the NCSU investigation because it wasn't clear cut and the NCAA could easily screw it up? In my mind, the state already knows what needs to be done to UNC...it's that obvious. I suspect they would get involved if the NCAA gets it wrong. It would be an unbelievable display of ineptitude if they did. Regardless, I fail to see the point of asking UNC fans about the state's actions. Only people from the state can answer those questions. I doubt ConstruxBoy has any more insight into the ways of the state than you or me.

I don't know about that. Like I said she's really only looking at the agent angle (hell the NCAA has more investigative power since everthing is under oath and since its not criminal you can't take the 5th...basically not answer means you're guilty though). There's has been lots of calls for some AG from one of the 31 states with the "its against the law for agents to pay college kids" law on the books to actually do so. Why she did, but the Bama, or GA, or FL AG didn't, I don't have an answer besides there's a pretty big rift between athletic department boosters and the academic boosters/alumni (for lack of a better adjective).

 

[pantherclub]

Baddour: academic issues older than first believed

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/09/09/672...sues-older.html

Holy hell batman, this is like 2 straight months of bad news every day. I am 100% certain now Butch is a goner. Just a matter of when. If it goes back years and Greg Little is involved then I think Ol Roy may be sweating a bit.

 

[BassNBrew]

UNC System President Erskine Bowles

Clinton's fault.

 

[BoulderBob]

Butch pissed off one of the fat cats paying all of his players, maybe more than a few, and this is how they are going to get him canned...nothing to see here

 

[Sammy3469]

Baddour: academic issues older than first believed

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/09/09/672...sues-older.html

Holy hell batman, this is like 2 straight months of bad news every day. I am 100% certain now Butch is a goner. Just a matter of when. If it goes back years and Greg Little is involved then I think Ol Roy may be sweating a bit.

I really have to laugh at Baddour saying this will end anytime soon. They just admitted today that they have academic violations that probably go back more than a year, but have don't know anymore than that. If this was simply about guys going to parties over the summer, the NCAA would have already ruled (see Price at UGA or the Bama kid). But, the longer the NCAA drags this out, the less faith they have in what UNC has shown them, indicating they want to investigate further. Granted he's riding into the sunset at some point, but I'm frankly stunned Bowles is sticking by these guys. Everyday there's a new drip by Baddour (I'm guessing that's their pr play, but I also wouldn't be surprised if that's also how they're finding out about this stuff themselves). At some point, someone with some authority is going to say enough.

 

[The Commish]

Did you stop to think for a second that maybe the state got involved with the NCSU investigation because it wasn't clear cut and the NCAA could easily screw it up? In my mind, the state already knows what needs to be done to UNC...it's that obvious. I suspect they would get involved if the NCAA gets it wrong. It would be an unbelievable display of ineptitude if they did. Regardless, I fail to see the point of asking UNC fans about the state's actions. Only people from the state can answer those questions. I doubt ConstruxBoy has any more insight into the ways of the state than you or me.

I don't know about that. Like I said she's really only looking at the agent angle (hell the NCAA has more investigative power since everthing is under oath and since its not criminal you can't take the 5th...basically not answer means you're guilty though). There's has been lots of calls for some AG from one of the 31 states with the "its against the law for agents to pay college kids" law on the books to actually do so. Why she did, but the Bama, or GA, or FL AG didn't, I don't have an answer besides there's a pretty big rift between athletic department boosters and the academic boosters/alumni (for lack of a better adjective).

I can see all of this being reason also....ALL of it before "the state gov't like unc better than ncsu, yet some turn to that immediately.

 

[drfeelgood]

I can see all of this being reason also....ALL of it before "the state gov't like unc better than ncsu, yet some turn to that immediately.

I don't think that some turn it to that immediately. I think the questions raised are very legit.

 

[The Commish]

I can see all of this being reason also....ALL of it before "the state gov't like unc better than ncsu, yet some turn to that immediately.

I don't think that some turn it to that immediately. I think the questions raised are very legit.

Again...I don't have a problem with the questions...I agree with every one of them. The immediate conclusions are what I have issue with....and it's not really that I have an actual issue with them....I just find them very bizarre and like.

 

[pantherclub]

This literally gets worse for UNC by the hour. I am fully expecting a dead hooker to show up at some point in all this. I wonder how many at UNC are going to lose their job over this.

Meanwhile, a person familiar with the NCAA's ongoing investigation into alleged rules violations at North Carolina told ESPN.com Hawkins' relationship with current Tar Heels players also is being scrutinized by the NCAA.

According to a source familiar with the investigation, Hawkins contacted several sports agents about their interest in representing North Carolina players in the NFL draft.

The source said North Carolina players told NCAA investigators Hawkins arranged for the players to meet with at least two agents: Peter Schaffer of All Pro Sports & Entertainment in Denver and Kevin Conner of Universal Sports Management in Atlanta.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5551923

 

[3C's]

This literally gets worse for UNC by the hour. I am fully expecting a dead hooker to show up at some point in all this. I wonder how many at UNC are going to lose their job over this.

Meanwhile, a person familiar with the NCAA's ongoing investigation into alleged rules violations at North Carolina told ESPN.com Hawkins' relationship with current Tar Heels players also is being scrutinized by the NCAA.

According to a source familiar with the investigation, Hawkins contacted several sports agents about their interest in representing North Carolina players in the NFL draft.

The source said North Carolina players told NCAA investigators Hawkins arranged for the players to meet with at least two agents: Peter Schaffer of All Pro Sports & Entertainment in Denver and Kevin Conner of Universal Sports Management in Atlanta.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5551923

you should change that l in your name to an h because you're obviously excited by all this.

 

[pantherclub]

This literally gets worse for UNC by the hour. I am fully expecting a dead hooker to show up at some point in all this. I wonder how many at UNC are going to lose their job over this.

Meanwhile, a person familiar with the NCAA's ongoing investigation into alleged rules violations at North Carolina told ESPN.com Hawkins' relationship with current Tar Heels players also is being scrutinized by the NCAA.

According to a source familiar with the investigation, Hawkins contacted several sports agents about their interest in representing North Carolina players in the NFL draft.

The source said North Carolina players told NCAA investigators Hawkins arranged for the players to meet with at least two agents: Peter Schaffer of All Pro Sports & Entertainment in Denver and Kevin Conner of Universal Sports Management in Atlanta.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5551923

you should change that l in your name to an h because you're obviously excited by all this.

Thats the best you got?

 

[The Commish]

This literally gets worse for UNC by the hour. I am fully expecting a dead hooker to show up at some point in all this. I wonder how many at UNC are going to lose their job over this.

Meanwhile, a person familiar with the NCAA's ongoing investigation into alleged rules violations at North Carolina told ESPN.com Hawkins' relationship with current Tar Heels players also is being scrutinized by the NCAA.

According to a source familiar with the investigation, Hawkins contacted several sports agents about their interest in representing North Carolina players in the NFL draft.

The source said North Carolina players told NCAA investigators Hawkins arranged for the players to meet with at least two agents: Peter Schaffer of All Pro Sports & Entertainment in Denver and Kevin Conner of Universal Sports Management in Atlanta.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5551923

you should change that l in your name to an h because you're obviously excited by all this.

Thats the best you got?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

My sources say that the NCAA is going to retroactively give the 2005 and 2009 NCAA Men's Basketball Championships to NC State as reciprocity for the 1989 Investigation.

Congrats guys!

:confetti:

 

[pantherclub]

My sources say that the NCAA is going to retroactively give the 2005 and 2009 NCAA Men's Basketball Championships to NC State as reciprocity for the 1989 Investigation. Congrats guys!:confetti:

Thats all we have ever wanted.

 

[Tau837]

My sources say that the NCAA is going to retroactively give the 2005 and 2009 NCAA Men's Basketball Championships to NC State as reciprocity for the 1989 Investigation. Congrats guys!:confetti:

Not amusing.

I want the truth to be determined and made public, and appropriate penalties to be implemented.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

My sources say that the NCAA is going to retroactively give the 2005 and 2009 NCAA Men's Basketball Championships to NC State as reciprocity for the 1989 Investigation. Congrats guys!:confetti:

Not amusing.

I want the truth to be determined and made public, and appropriate penalties to be implemented.

Come on, you didn't chuckle just a little bit?Anyway, I'm out of town for the weekend so I won't be able to continue the good "fight" in this thread, LOL. But don't worry, I'll still be involved in NCAA scandal. I'm headed down to Alabama to watch the Penn State - Alabama football game in which Bama's best defensive player is sitting out another game because of the Miami trip.

 

[Sammy3469]

This literally gets worse for UNC by the hour. I am fully expecting a dead hooker to show up at some point in all this. I wonder how many at UNC are going to lose their job over this.

Meanwhile, a person familiar with the NCAA's ongoing investigation into alleged rules violations at North Carolina told ESPN.com Hawkins' relationship with current Tar Heels players also is being scrutinized by the NCAA.

According to a source familiar with the investigation, Hawkins contacted several sports agents about their interest in representing North Carolina players in the NFL draft.

The source said North Carolina players told NCAA investigators Hawkins arranged for the players to meet with at least two agents: Peter Schaffer of All Pro Sports & Entertainment in Denver and Kevin Conner of Universal Sports Management in Atlanta.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5551923

The funny part of that article is that its written about alleged agent misconduct (the only real proof the the $1000 that went to UGa guy), but the real news is the last sentence:

During interviews about agents, a UNC player told officials a tutor formerly employed by Tar Heels coach Butch Davis improperly helped players write papers for classes.

So some of these guys are talking (supposedly including Little).

 

[The Commish]

My sources say that the NCAA is going to retroactively give the 2005 and 2009 NCAA Men's Basketball Championships to NC State as reciprocity for the 1989 Investigation. Congrats guys!:confetti:

Not amusing.

I want the truth to be determined and made public, and appropriate penalties to be implemented.

Come on, you didn't chuckle just a little bit?Anyway, I'm out of town for the weekend so I won't be able to continue the good "fight" in this thread, LOL. But don't worry, I'll still be involved in NCAA scandal. I'm headed down to Alabama to watch the Penn State - Alabama football game in which Bama's best defensive player is sitting out another game because of the Miami trip.

Listen guy...this is SERIOUS BUSINESS!!!!! grrrrrrr

 

[simey]

This literally gets worse for UNC by the hour. I am fully expecting a dead hooker to show up at some point in all this. I wonder how many at UNC are going to lose their job over this.

Meanwhile, a person familiar with the NCAA's ongoing investigation into alleged rules violations at North Carolina told ESPN.com Hawkins' relationship with current Tar Heels players also is being scrutinized by the NCAA.

According to a source familiar with the investigation, Hawkins contacted several sports agents about their interest in representing North Carolina players in the NFL draft.

The source said North Carolina players told NCAA investigators Hawkins arranged for the players to meet with at least two agents: Peter Schaffer of All Pro Sports & Entertainment in Denver and Kevin Conner of Universal Sports Management in Atlanta.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5551923

you should change that l in your name to an h because you're obviously excited by all this.

Thats the best you got?

i liked it.

 

[Sammy3469]

Yahoo/NFLPost Story

So it looks like the NFLPA is awaiting a report from the NCAA on the misconduct of various agents in the next 5-7 days. The story says Hawkins is part of the investigation and that he was requesting extra benefits. Sounds like the report is going to name some names, so this may be the first time we see what exactly the NCAA has on everyone (and supposedly bascially the entire Southeast was involved).

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Which Tarheel team is playing this Saturday? Anyone back that didn't play against LSU?

 

[Sammy3469]

Which Tarheel team is playing this Saturday? Anyone back that didn't play against LSU?

No announcement yet, so who knows.

 

[Sammy3469]

So Hawkins was arrested for cocaine in April 2009 while moving furniture from the penthouse apartment in Miami Beach where the parties occurred this past summer for his roommate "Fast" Willie Parker. Also apparently Robert Quinn was the go-between between Hawkins and UGa's AJ Green. Yeah, everything is good at UNC.

ESPN Link

 

[Sammy3469]

A double dose of NCAA shenanigans from CNNSI

Dohrmann

Mandel

 

[Tau837]

Interview with Butch Davis

Davis gets into an uncomfortable exchange with a N&O reporter over the Hawkins connection around the 3:45 mark.

 

[pantherclub]

Interview with Butch Davis

Davis gets into an uncomfortable exchange with a N&O reporter over the Hawkins connection around the 3:45 mark.

I cannot imagine any scenario where Butch keeps his job. If by some miracle he does then UNC has truly sold its sold and joined the ranks of Tennessee and Miami. Without the wins of course. To me that is the funniest part, they are doing all of this cheating but still only winning 8 games and going to crappy bowls.

 

[Sammy3469]

Good Dave Glenn article on what's going on. Sounds like the tutor is holding them hostage (not that I blame her). Also says the $$$ that changed hands is greater than the Ga guy which is the first time we've seen any type of value associated with the benefits.

Link

 

[NMYMND]

A quick return to actual news:

Kendric Burney, senior CB, who received $1,333 in benefits, must miss six games and make repayment of $575.19 to a charity of his choice.

Deunta Williams, senior safety, who received $1,426 in benefits, must miss four games and make repayment of $450.67 to a charity of his choice.

According to the university, benefits included trips to California, Atlanta and Las Vegas for Burney and two trips to California for Williams. The majority of the benefits Burney received were from an individual who meets the NCAA definition of an agent. The majority of Williams’ benefits were preferential treatment violations associated with visiting a former North Carolina football student-athlete.

The two games missed will count toward total, and UNC plans to appeal the length of the suspensions.

Other notes:

In the damning with faint praise department - "UNC is the Most Impressive 0-2 team in the last decade," says Todd McShay on ESPNUs "the experts." Of course, UNC is the only team in the 6 BCS conferences (plus Notre Dame) without a win this season.

And something from Frank Deford on NCAA cheating to drive the ABC crowd a little crazy:

"Even the bleeding hearts among us can only conclude that if they're cheating at Chapel Hill, athletic academic fraud must be truly commonplace."

 

[Tau837]

1. I don't understand why any athlete would have to repay less than half of improper benefits received in order to regain eligibility. Why would they not have to repay all of it? Has this been the norm?

2. I must say I am surprised UNC is going to appeal. Based on what?

3. On Deford's comment:

 

[Sammy3469]

1. I don't understand why any athlete would have to repay less than half of improper benefits received in order to regain eligibility. Why would they not have to repay all of it? Has this been the norm?

2. I must say I am surprised UNC is going to appeal. Based on what?

3. On Deford's comment:

1. I believe they had already made good on the difference, but I'm probably wrong on that2. They appeal because its actually the player appealing (and quite frankly any person in the same spot would appeal having to sit out half the year)

3. agreed

The more interesting news was the N&O interview with Bruney's dad. Link He throws Little and Austin under the bus saying everyone knew there would be agents at the Miami Beach party. He throws UNC in general under the bus saying Hawkins/Parker have been contact players recruits for 5 years (FWIW if it truly is 5 years that puts the first contact to Bruney's senior year in high school which could bring up systemic recruiting violations since it predates Butch). In addition, we now have 2 former UNC players that provided benefits to current players over the past 2 years again bringing up systemic compliance issues at UNC.

And that's just everything the NCAA needs to look at from presumably the "easiest" of the two cases nevermind Austin, Little, et al and nothing dealing with the tutor. Since the NCAA deemed Hawkins an agent, UNC is going to have a hell of a time getting out from under this.

 

[BassNBrew]

1. I don't understand why any athlete would have to repay less than half of improper benefits received in order to regain eligibility. Why would they not have to repay all of it? Has this been the norm?

Just guessing, but it may have to do with fair market value. I can give you a plane ticket at with a $500 face value but other flights may be available for less. Also, if these items are considered taxable, the NCAA my be reducing the benefit received by the taxes owed.

 

[meanjoegreen]

3. On Deford's comment:

I agree.

 

[The Commish]

I cannot imagine any scenario where Butch keeps his job. If by some miracle he does then UNC has truly sold its sold and joined the ranks of Tennessee and Miami. Without the wins of course. To me that is the funniest part, they are doing all of this cheating but still only winning 8 games and going to crappy bowls.

Aren't you a State fan? I have to think you'd trade their success in football the last 5-6 years with NCSU's wouldn't you? This is like me as a Michigan Alum ripping OSU for going to bowl games when Michigan's not had a winning record the last two years to even be bowl eligible. :(

 

[pantherclub]

I cannot imagine any scenario where Butch keeps his job. If by some miracle he does then UNC has truly sold its sold and joined the ranks of Tennessee and Miami. Without the wins of course. To me that is the funniest part, they are doing all of this cheating but still only winning 8 games and going to crappy bowls.

Aren't you a State fan? I have to think you'd trade their success in football the last 5-6 years with NCSU's wouldn't you? This is like me as a Michigan Alum ripping OSU for going to bowl games when Michigan's not had a winning record the last two years to even be bowl eligible.

There is no way in hades I would trade for their "success" from the past 5-6 years. You may want to look up the records before you make that claim.

 

[The Commish]

I cannot imagine any scenario where Butch keeps his job. If by some miracle he does then UNC has truly sold its sold and joined the ranks of Tennessee and Miami. Without the wins of course. To me that is the funniest part, they are doing all of this cheating but still only winning 8 games and going to crappy bowls.

Aren't you a State fan? I have to think you'd trade their success in football the last 5-6 years with NCSU's wouldn't you? This is like me as a Michigan Alum ripping OSU for going to bowl games when Michigan's not had a winning record the last two years to even be bowl eligible.

There is no way in hades I would trade for their "success" from the past 5-6 years. You may want to look up the records before you make that claim.

I knew that NCSU didn't have but one winning season during that time. I didn't know UNC only had 2. By your comment it made it sound like they were routinely going to mediocre bowls. They aren't. Been to the MCC bowl twice...lost both by a total of three points. Record over that time is 28-33. NCSU has been to two bowls also and is 1-1. Winning the MCC and losing the papajohns.com bowl. 26-33 is their record over that time. Seems success is generally equal now that I look at the numbers. UNC has two winning seasons, NCSU has one. All this is from 2005-2009....can go back further if you want...but I fail to see the point.

 

[Tau837]

I cannot imagine any scenario where Butch keeps his job. If by some miracle he does then UNC has truly sold its sold and joined the ranks of Tennessee and Miami. Without the wins of course. To me that is the funniest part, they are doing all of this cheating but still only winning 8 games and going to crappy bowls.

Aren't you a State fan? I have to think you'd trade their success in football the last 5-6 years with NCSU's wouldn't you? This is like me as a Michigan Alum ripping OSU for going to bowl games when Michigan's not had a winning record the last two years to even be bowl eligible.

There is no way in hades I would trade for their "success" from the past 5-6 years. You may want to look up the records before you make that claim.

I knew that NCSU didn't have but one winning season during that time. I didn't know UNC only had 2. By your comment it made it sound like they were routinely going to mediocre bowls. They aren't. Been to the MCC bowl twice...lost both by a total of three points. Record over that time is 28-33. NCSU has been to two bowls also and is 1-1. Winning the MCC and losing the papajohns.com bowl. 26-33 is their record over that time. Seems success is generally equal now that I look at the numbers. UNC has two winning seasons, NCSU has one. All this is from 2005-2009....can go back further if you want...but I fail to see the point.

If you go back further you'll soon pick up the Philip Rivers years, and I would think the results would definitely start to favor State a bit. But I agree, what's the point?And as for trading years, even if UNC had a much better record over the past 5 seasons, I don't think any State fan would want to trade for them given all the baggage that comes with that "success".

Getting back on topic, what is taking so long? Is this investigation going to drag out all season and beyond?

 

[The Commish]

I cannot imagine any scenario where Butch keeps his job. If by some miracle he does then UNC has truly sold its sold and joined the ranks of Tennessee and Miami. Without the wins of course. To me that is the funniest part, they are doing all of this cheating but still only winning 8 games and going to crappy bowls.

Aren't you a State fan? I have to think you'd trade their success in football the last 5-6 years with NCSU's wouldn't you? This is like me as a Michigan Alum ripping OSU for going to bowl games when Michigan's not had a winning record the last two years to even be bowl eligible.

There is no way in hades I would trade for their "success" from the past 5-6 years. You may want to look up the records before you make that claim.

I knew that NCSU didn't have but one winning season during that time. I didn't know UNC only had 2. By your comment it made it sound like they were routinely going to mediocre bowls. They aren't. Been to the MCC bowl twice...lost both by a total of three points. Record over that time is 28-33. NCSU has been to two bowls also and is 1-1. Winning the MCC and losing the papajohns.com bowl. 26-33 is their record over that time. Seems success is generally equal now that I look at the numbers. UNC has two winning seasons, NCSU has one. All this is from 2005-2009....can go back further if you want...but I fail to see the point.

If you go back further you'll soon pick up the Philip Rivers years, and I would think the results would definitely start to favor State a bit. But I agree, what's the point?And as for trading years, even if UNC had a much better record over the past 5 seasons, I don't think any State fan would want to trade for them given all the baggage that comes with that "success".

Getting back on topic, what is taking so long? Is this investigation going to drag out all season and beyond?

This is pretty substantial....I doubt it will be resolved this season. I took the last 5 years because they are the years Butch has been there and the time frame the cheating has occured. I just found the comment odd given how similar the histories have been on the field during that time. He made no mention of the baggage...seemed to be just talking about the records/performance on the field etc. Seem very similar (for some reason I thought the last two years of 8-5 were more frequent over the last 5 years....I was wrong about that).

 

[Don Quixote]

Farewell UNC football...

Prominent NFL agent Gary Wichard and former University of North Carolina assistant football coach John Blake have engaged in multiple financial transactions since May of 2007, a four-month investigation by Yahoo! Sports has found.

Wichard and Blake are now at the center of NCAA and North Carolina Secretary of State probes, which are seeking to determine the nature and scope of alleged agent tampering involving the football program. Those investigations have also focused on Tar Heels defensive tackle Marvin Austin, who has made at least five trips that have come under scrutiny. Two of those trips included training at a California facility less than two miles from Wichard’s agency, Pro Tect Management. Yahoo! Sports has obtained a hotel receipt from one of those trips, which lists Austin’s name above Pro Tect Management, as well as an address and Marriott Rewards number belonging to an NFL marketing agent who represents two current Pro-Tect clients....

more at link

 

[Sammy3469]

Farewell UNC football...

Prominent NFL agent Gary Wichard and former University of North Carolina assistant football coach John Blake have engaged in multiple financial transactions since May of 2007, a four-month investigation by Yahoo! Sports has found.

Wichard and Blake are now at the center of NCAA and North Carolina Secretary of State probes, which are seeking to determine the nature and scope of alleged agent tampering involving the football program. Those investigations have also focused on Tar Heels defensive tackle Marvin Austin, who has made at least five trips that have come under scrutiny. Two of those trips included training at a California facility less than two miles from Wichard’s agency, Pro Tect Management. Yahoo! Sports has obtained a hotel receipt from one of those trips, which lists Austin’s name above Pro Tect Management, as well as an address and Marriott Rewards number belonging to an NFL marketing agent who represents two current Pro-Tect clients....

more at link

BUTCH WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!111111UNC FOOTBALL WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!111111111

Like I said earlier, UNC better hope this doesn't spill over to the B-ball program.

 

[H.K.]

Tar Heels fighting back!

UNC to appeal 2 NCAA football suspensions

By Robbi Pickeral

Staff writer

Posted: Wednesday, Sep. 29, 2010

RALEIGH The University of North Carolina will appeal the NCAA's suspension of Tar Heels football players Kendric Burney and Deunta Williams later this week.

A conference call with NCAA officials has been scheduled for this Friday for North Carolina to appeal last week's ruling, UNC athletic director **** Baddour said today following an appearance at the Raleigh Sports Club.

Last week, the NCAA ruled that Burney must sit out six games and Williams four games after it was determined that the senior defensive backs had violated the NCAA rules regarding agent benefits and preferential treatment. The violations occurred when Burney took trips to Atlanta, Las Vegas and California and Williams made two trips to California.

Although both players paid for part of their travel expenses, the NCAA ruled that there are still benefits they must repay. Athletics Director **** Baddour said the length of the suspensions were “unduly harsh” when they were announced.

Burney received $1,333 in benefits and must repay $575.19 to a charity of his choice in order to regain eligibility. Williams received $1,426 in benefits and must repay $450.67 to charity.

Both players already have sat out three games, which will be applied toward their suspensions. Unless their suspensions are reduced, Williams can return on Oct. 9 against Clemson and Burney can play on Oct. 23 against Miami.

NCAA spokesperson Stacey Osburn said that once a school receives a decision from the reinstatement staff (the NCAA group that determined the penalties on Williams and Burney, in this case), the school can file a written appeal, with a required appeal form, within 30 days.

The Committee on Student Athlete Reinstatement – a six-person panel comprised of athletics directors and faculty representatives from member schools around the nation – can rule based on a review of the written record. But more often, it meets via teleconference to deliberate the appeal. The panel hears information from all parties involved (the reinstatement staff that made the decision, the school, and the student-athletes), before making the decision.

.

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/09/2...l#ixzz110zbw9XH

 

[pantherclub]

Wow. What a great day to be a State fan. Where is Tobias and has he given up trying to defend this?

Its going to be really interesting to see how hard the NCAA hammers UNC after this? You have mulitple serious infractions and they still are investigating. We have academic fraud, agents coaching and being associated with the team for 5 years, and recruiting violations. I am pretty sure I am missing something but that is the bulk of it.

Again, could someone give me a scenario how Butch makes it through this year with a job?

 

[H.K.]

UNC players wait for the honor court

By Eric Ferreri

eric.ferreri@newsobserver.com

Posted: Thursday, Sep. 30, 2010

CHAPEL HILL - North Carolina football players suspected of academic cheating will have to get in line with every other UNC Chapel Hill student in a similar situation.

Right now, that line stretches to 70 students or more. That was the approximate number of cases on the docket of the university's student judicial system last week, university officials said. It isn't clear how many of the 10 Tar Heels football players still sidelined by the ongoing NCAA investigation of the program have been implicated in cases of potential academic misconduct. University officials have said, though, that it could take several weeks at least for the current student cases to be resolved.

Winston Crisp, UNC's vice chancellor for student affairs, said there was no way to predict when the football cases would be resolved.

"I think people have some unreasonable expectations," he said. "There isn't an easy answer to give people who want to know how long this will take."

UNC athletic director **** Baddour said Wednesday that about 98 percent of his department's investigation into possible academic misconduct on the football team is complete (although the athletic department will be looking into other university teams, as well). Results from that investigation have been sent to the student attorney general's office. If that office charges a student with cheating or with another violation of UNC's honor code, the accused has a hearing with the honor court, which issues rulings and decides on punishment.

Baddour said he has an idea of when the honor court will rule on the football cases in front of it, "but I'm not at liberty to say [when]. I do have some sense of what the effort is, and how they're moving it along, but I think it would be unfair of them [for me] to publicly talk about that."

The university and the NCAA are investigating potential cases of academic misconduct within the football program, as well as reports of potential improper contact with sports agents.

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/09/3...l#ixzz1110Mzkur

Too bad about the back log of cases to delay the process, especially during football season.