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Undocumented Immigrant Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Capella
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Ha well I might be wrong. I thought you meant why didn’t McConnell just bring the vote tonight, and my thought was because they would lose, badly.
I *think the bill everyone thought would be voted on, the one minus WALL, would have passed broadly, and I say that because we know some Senators flew home thinking it was in the bag. That bill however I’m guessing will never see the light of day, and that’s McConnell’s and Ryan’s call.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I think the big mystery of modern American politics is why and when Congress became such a neutered beast, docile to the presidency. Our system is built for a Congress that does things in its own (ie the country’s) interest and the President mostly does what he’s told.
Everything in this budget situation says that Congress should take care of its own business, overwhelmingly pass a largely consensus budget and go home. But no, that’s not how it is.
Everything in this budget situation says that Congress should take care of its own business, overwhelmingly pass a largely consensus budget and go home. But no, that’s not how it is.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The wall line was a joke initially. I think it was Nunberg who said it was his idea and it just tested well. It was a crowd pleaser at rallies. The idea of the whole country's governmental budget resting on it is ludicrous. It’s not a real thing, just a fantasy that has taken root. Absolutely nuts.
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The General
Footballguy
Gotcha. I was mistaken on the number of votes they needed in the Senate. This thing is dead as is right now, going to be a crazy couple of days.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
There won't even be a filibuster if Mitch can't convince 49 Republican Senators to cancel their vacations and come back to Washington on short notice.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Yeah, I agree, vote on the bill that will pass, make the president veto it, call him on his bluff. Of course the gop won’t do that because of political reasons. Instead they vote a bill that they know won’t pass, and then will finger point at dems saying “see, they won’t vote for the bill, it’s their fault.” Govt will shut down.
If im Putin and I have my eye on Ukraine now seems like the perfect time to make your move. Government isn’t funded, trump is on the golf course, you’d have at least a day of inaction by the us, not that this admin would be quick to act anyway.
Tom Skerritt
Footballguy
It's also not like you were left with nothing. Providers and insurance change all of the time. And you can choose in-network and pay less, or you can choose out-of-network and pay a little more. But keep using this argument. It's very comparable to what we're seeing today.
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msommer
Footballguy
Tom Skerritt
Footballguy
I heard that the senator from Hawaii had just landed in Hawaii. Is now on a plane back to DC to be present for the vote.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
James Daulton
Footballguy
The master deal maker lost whatever leverage he had when he said he'd take responsibility for the shutdown. Dems just play that on a loop and all but his cultist will know the real story.
In fact, play one of his many rallies where he talked about Mexico paying for the wall and then his OO tantrum.
Should be epic.
In fact, play one of his many rallies where he talked about Mexico paying for the wall and then his OO tantrum.
Should be epic.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Trump knows he isn't getting the votes in the Senate, so right after the bill is defeated he will issue an executive order for the money to come out of the military budget. Surely everyone besides me knows this. Do you really think all he has to fall back on is a Senate vote?
Banger
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Chickenwang
Footballguy
You guys are #Losing - and we are #Winning
Banger
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
I guess Trump and his supporters don't care about the troops.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I think perhaps the variable you're ignoring here is that Trump is stubborn and incompetent, has shown time and time again that he has no idea how government works.
A president can't re-appropriate money via executive order. His administration would have to hunt through the DoD budget and try to find enough discretionary funding that they could reasonably argue was appropriated for projects that could include building the wall, and if so could direct Mattis to funnel it accordingly. I have no idea if they can pull that off and I'm not gonna hunt through DoD's FY2019 appropriations to find out (if you wanna give it a go here it is). But the fact that they haven't just done this already tells me it wouldn't be easy.
The Commish
Footballguy
This is probably true...then it will end up in court like everything else he tries to do. I actually hope this gets to the SC.
Capella
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
The people who voted for him voted for a wall paid for by Mexico. It's on their guy to make that happen. Personally, I couldn't give two ####s if there was a wall there or not, but I don't want my tax dollars paying for it, so if he can do it some other way, go for it. Nothing changes the fact that it would be ineffective and a complete waste of money.butcher boy said:
Banger
Footballguy
just thinking forward...how does it realistically get better? You have to fill a spot at Interior, you need a new AG, the COS is temporary, the WH is completely understaffed, the head of Defense just resigned like none other in US history leaving the country and world shaken, you have Trump under a dozen + investigations personally, his family, his business, his friends/associates, his campaign and administration, you have the Mueller report ready to drop, he's destroyed the US markets, McConnell is furious for how Trump has waffled on this shutdown/Syria/Mattis, the Dems are taking over the House in 2 weeks which will uncover many things the R's tried to brush under the rug...I could go on but this guy has taken anyone with any integrity, intelligence or values out of the administration and is looking to surround himself with sycophants or vacancies.
Things are spiraling and getting dramatically worse and I fail to see any reason that it will realistically get better.
The Commish
Footballguy
Back to the 60 vote thing.....McConnell can change the rules again....why isn't he?
Workhorse
Footballguy
Because funding the wall is a political landmine and Mitch knows that by setting this precedent, he would be taking away the Republican's filibuster options if/when they lose the Senate in the future. He's far too smart to do that.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
It’s not a mystery, you have a House that’s essentially 3 parties with the party in charge (containing 2 of the 3 parties) neutering itself with the stupid Hastert rule. Republicans did it themselves.
timschochet
Footballguy
He will tell you, if you asked him, that what comes around goes around and at some point the Dems will be in charge, etc.
Buts that only part of the truth. The rest of it is this: a lot of Republicans don’t want this wall built. They know it’s a terrible idea. They don’t want to have to vote against it though.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
butcher boy
Footballguy
Can we stop saying that Mexico isn’t paying for the wall? They will be paying for it partially through the MCA. Sure it won’t be fully funded by them but as someone else said, not everyone got to keep their own doctor either.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
If there's one thing we have learned from these folks it is to never underestimate them. 
Ilov80s
Footballguy
He should step down. It should be demanded by everyone in the government and in the country. It is a circus led by a clown.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
It's hard to think of a bigger win for the Dems than the GOP nuking the 60 vote requirement to unilaterally pass legislation to get a measly $5 billion for an unpopular wall that'll never get built. The DNC and every liberal and progressive movement in the country would be popping champagne.
Remember, the way our political lines are drawn at the moment the Senate is effectively "gerrymandered" for the GOP. The Dems will never get close to 60 seats in our lifetimes. They will almost certainly crack 50 at some point though, and have a decent chance to control all three branches as soon as 2020 or 2022. Imagine if they're able to pass things like Medicare for All with just 50 Senate votes. We've already seen with Obamacare and many other things that it's much easier to pass/expand entitlements than to repeal/contract them.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Tell butcher boy that Donald winning the election doesn't mean he has a mandate from the public. I don't think that's a very complicated concept but I've overestimated him before.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
It's like the people running the show have no idea how our government functions.
If only someone woulda told me!
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
"Can we stop bringing up that thing the President talked about constantly?" man asks as he once again brings up a thing the last president said a few times eight years ago that haunted him for his entire presidency and beyond.
Skoo
Footballguy
No.
Why would we lie?
Trump told us Mexico will pay, but now we have to. That's just the reality of the situation.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
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