Undocumented Immigrant Thread (8 Viewers)

[KCitons]

The national focus about drugs...seriously, it’s not hard to understand. 

Any harder that understanding that tariffs on Mexico are bad? 

 

[timschochet]

Yes. 

Why? 

 

[sho nuff]

Any harder that understanding that tariffs on Mexico are bad? 

Oh look another deflection and one to a ridiculous topic where nobody said tariffs would be good (other than Trump).

Good bye

 

[KCitons]

Why? 

Because when people arrive by plane, they aren't allowed to walk right out of the airport. There is a process and rules that must be followed. Should we treat our airports the way we treat our Southern border?

 

[KCitons]

Oh look another deflection and one to a ridiculous topic where nobody said tariffs would be good (other than Trump).

Good bye

That's two goodbyes tonight. 

Both came when the person was backed into a corner. Some can't handle the truth. 

 

[Henry Ford]

Yes. 

 

[Hawkeye21]

Because when people arrive by plane, they aren't allowed to walk right out of the airport. There is a process and rules that must be followed. Should we treat our airports the way we treat our Southern border?

When immigrants start entering our country on regulated transportation like planes then your comparison could work a little better. 

 

[sho nuff]

That's two goodbyes tonight. 

Both came when the person was backed into a corner. Some can't handle the truth. 

I wasn’t backed into any corner and you didn’t post truth. 

You just reminded me why you aren’t worth the effort now or ever.  No need to respond, I won’t read it, you are not capable of having a reasonable discussion and I won’t  waste my time with that.

 

[timschochet]

Because when people arrive by plane, they aren't allowed to walk right out of the airport. There is a process and rules that must be followed. Should we treat our airports the way we treat our Southern border?

I wasn’t asking about rules. I asked if you found reducing the number of Hispanics coming here as a desirable goal. You answered yes and I asked why. 

 

[timschochet]

I think and hope what you meant, @KCitons, is that you want to reduce the number of undocumented immigrants coming here from south of the border, and not that you want to reduce the number of Hispanics coming here overall. Is that what you really meant to say? 

 

[tonydead]

I think and hope what you meant, @KCitons, is that you want to reduce the number of undocumented immigrants coming here from south of the border, and not that you want to reduce the number of Hispanics coming here overall. Is that what you really meant to say? 

Remember the discussion about race we had earlier?  He said, "reduce the number of people coming here".  It's not always about race.

 

[timschochet]

Remember the discussion about race we had earlier?  He said, "reduce the number of people coming here".  It's not always about race.

I disagree with him either way. But I did ask him specifically if he wanted to reduce the number of Hispanics that come here and he said yes. That’s a problematic response, but he’s free to correct it and I will accept that. 

 

[Hawkeye21]

Remember the discussion about race we had earlier?  He said, "reduce the number of people coming here".  It's not always about race.

Does it make much sense to reduce the number of people coming here when we have a surplus of jobs right now?  Shouldn't we be striving to find people to work these jobs, especially ones that Americans are not willing to work?

 

[tonydead]

I disagree with him either way. But I did ask him specifically if he wanted to reduce the number of Hispanics that come here and he said yes. That’s a problematic response, but he’s free to correct it and I will accept that. 

I know you were being specific. It's injecting race into discussions where It's unnecessary. You do that all the time. 

 

[KCitons]

I wasn’t asking about rules. I asked if you found reducing the number of Hispanics coming here as a desirable goal. You answered yes and I asked why. 

I think and hope what you meant, @KCitons, is that you want to reduce the number of undocumented immigrants coming here from south of the border, and not that you want to reduce the number of Hispanics coming here overall. Is that what you really meant to say? 

I disagree with him either way. But I did ask him specifically if he wanted to reduce the number of Hispanics that come here and he said yes. That’s a problematic response, but he’s free to correct it and I will accept that. 

First off, you asked a very narrow question. To which I gave a very narrow answer. 

You asked why. Again I gave a very concise answer in regards to rules being applied equally. I think that was pretty simple and easy to understand. But, I underestimated the typical reader here. 

I asked you a question. Would you want to treat our airports the same way you want to treat our Southern border? You did not respond to this question. And insist that I answer you a third time. This is why I point out the double standard that exists here. Courtesy is only expected from one side. 

To make it clear, I don't care if the people are Hispanic, Icelandic, or aliens from Mars. If they are going to come to this country, I expect them to do so legally. I'm sure there are people in Africa that would like to come to the U.S.. Unfortunately, they can't just sneak across the border in the middle of the night. The fact that people are Hispanic is only due to geography. If we shared a border with Iceland or Africa, the conversation would be about a different nationality. 

 

[KCitons]

I wasn’t backed into any corner and you didn’t post truth. 

You just reminded me why you aren’t worth the effort now or ever.  No need to respond, I won’t read it, you are not capable of having a reasonable discussion and I won’t  waste my time with that.

This isn't being excellent. But, it does show your close mindedness. 

If we disagree today, then we must disagree tomorrow? Regardless of the topic. 

 

[Mile High]

Does it make much sense to reduce the number of people coming here when we have a surplus of jobs right now?  Shouldn't we be striving to find people to work these jobs, especially ones that Americans are not willing to work?

That's been my question all a long. Right now we have surplus of jobs and low unemployment.  If we start doing all this infrastructure , bring back jobs to America, what's is the plan to actually get the labor force to fill these jobs. While it might be great to get on Twitter and post  jobs,jobs jobs for everyone,  what is the plan to find the labor force?

 

[KCitons]

When immigrants start entering our country on regulated transportation like planes then your comparison could work a little better. 

Regulated? Have you ever flown international?

What would keep you from being allowed entry into the United States? You could have an elephant tusk hidden in your colon and they would charge you with a crime, yet still allow you entry. It's only when you don't have the proper authorization/paperwork to enter that you are denied. This is how it immigrants enter through airports, but not how they enter at our Southern border.

Does it make much sense to reduce the number of people coming here when we have a surplus of jobs right now?  Shouldn't we be striving to find people to work these jobs, especially ones that Americans are not willing to work?

Why would you want to willingly break immigration laws for the sake of filling jobs? I'm sure there are plenty of people in other countries that would be happy to fill those jobs. Unfortunately, they can't walk on water to get here.  

 

[Hawkeye21]

That's been my question all a long. Right now we have surplus of jobs and low unemployment.  If we start doing all this infrastructure , bring back jobs to America, what's is the plan to actually get the labor force to fill these jobs. While it might be great to get on Twitter and post  jobs,jobs jobs for everyone,  what is the plan to find the labor force?

I have yet to see any republicans give any semblance of a plan.

 

[timschochet]

I know you were being specific. It's injecting race into discussions where It's unnecessary. You do that all the time. 

Not all the time. And I disagree with you here rather strongly. Because we are not just discussing undocumented immigration in this thread, we are specifically discussing President Trump’s thoughts and proposed solutions to this issue, and those are racist and bigoted IMO. Therefore, the question of race absolutely should be injected. It is very necessary. 

 

[Mile High]

I have yet to see any republicans give any semblance of a plan.

Exactly . It all sounds good on Twitter but let's see a plan in the real world. 

 

[Hawkeye21]

Regulated? Have you ever flown international?

What would keep you from being allowed entry into the United States? You could have an elephant tusk hidden in your colon and they would charge you with a crime, yet still allow you entry. It's only when you don't have the proper authorization/paperwork to enter that you are denied. This is how it immigrants enter through airports, but not how they enter at our Southern border.

Why would you want to willingly break immigration laws for the sake of filling jobs? I'm sure there are plenty of people in other countries that would be happy to fill those jobs. Unfortunately, they can't walk on water to get here.  

Yes, I've flown internationally.  Flying is much different than driving your own vehicle or walking across a border.

I didn't say anything about breaking immigration laws, did I?

 

[timschochet]

First off, you asked a very narrow question. To which I gave a very narrow answer. 

You asked why. Again I gave a very concise answer in regards to rules being applied equally. I think that was pretty simple and easy to understand. But, I underestimated the typical reader here. 

I asked you a question. Would you want to treat our airports the same way you want to treat our Southern border? You did not respond to this question. And insist that I answer you a third time. This is why I point out the double standard that exists here. Courtesy is only expected from one side. 

To make it clear, I don't care if the people are Hispanic, Icelandic, or aliens from Mars. If they are going to come to this country, I expect them to do so legally. I'm sure there are people in Africa that would like to come to the U.S.. Unfortunately, they can't just sneak across the border in the middle of the night. The fact that people are Hispanic is only due to geography. If we shared a border with Iceland or Africa, the conversation would be about a different nationality. 

Thanks for your answer. Of course I know you’re aware that the migrants who come here seeking asylum are doing so legally. But I appreciate your clarification and I take you at your word that this has nothing to do with race. Unfortunately the President does not share your POV about that. 

To answer your question: I wouldn’t mind having our borders as secure as our airports, but not at the price of a wall. By price I am more concerned about the moral price, and the cost of our relationship with Mexico, than I am about the money cost. I don’t want a wall, ever, so Id much rather prefer porous borders. 

 

[KCitons]

Yes, I've flown internationally.  Flying is much different than driving your own vehicle or walking across a border.

I didn't say anything about breaking immigration laws, did I?

Is it different than walking across the border in the middle of the night. At a place that is not a designated point of entry?

There are two different things being discussed. The legal method of seeking asylum and the illegal method of crossing the border because you can't seek asylum. You want to lump them together as if I want a wall to stop both. I want it to stop the latter, and streamline the former. 

 

[Amused to Death]

Does it make much sense to reduce the number of people coming here when we have a surplus of jobs right now?  Shouldn't we be striving to find people to work these jobs, especially ones that Americans are not willing to work?

"Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems? Make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit—and then while they’re working and earning here, they pay taxes here. And when they want to go back, they can go back. And open the border both ways by understanding their problems." - Ronald Reagan 

 

[Sheriff Bart]

"Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems? Make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit—and then while they’re working and earning here, they pay taxes here. And when they want to go back, they can go back. And open the border both ways by understanding their problems." - Ronald Reagan 

Far left wing liberal. 

 

[KCitons]

Thanks for your answer. Of course I know you’re aware that the migrants who come here seeking asylum are doing so legally. But I appreciate your clarification and I take you at your word that this has nothing to do with race. Unfortunately the President does not share your POV about that. 

To answer your question: I wouldn’t mind having our borders as secure as our airports, but not at the price of a wall. By price I am more concerned about the moral price, and the cost of our relationship with Mexico, than I am about the money cost. I don’t want a wall, ever, so Id much rather prefer porous borders. 

Oxymoron. 

We are paying a price at our airports for TSA, CBP, etc. 

I see following the established rules as being about morals. Ignoring them is the opposite. 

 

[KCitons]

"Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems? Make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit—and then while they’re working and earning here, they pay taxes here. And when they want to go back, they can go back. And open the border both ways by understanding their problems." - Ronald Reagan 

What happens when that work permit runs out and they don't want to go back? 

 

[timschochet]

Oxymoron. 

We are paying a price at our airports for TSA, CBP, etc. 

I see following the established rules as being about morals. Ignoring them is the opposite. 

We disagree quite strongly I guess. Not the first time. 

 

[Amused to Death]

Far left wing liberal. 

By today's standards? Yes, yes he would be labelled that. A RINO at the very least.

 

[Hawkeye21]

Is it different than walking across the border in the middle of the night. At a place that is not a designated point of entry?

There are two different things being discussed. The legal method of seeking asylum and the illegal method of crossing the border because you can't seek asylum. You want to lump them together as if I want a wall to stop both. I want it to stop the latter, and streamline the former. 

I think almost every single person on here wants similar things when it comes to immigration.  Most of us want immigrants to come here legally, we just disagree on how to make that happen.  I would like to see more effort put into making the process easier for immigrants, streamlined, like you said.  All this Trump talk about a stupid wall is counter productive.

 

[Sheriff Bart]

By today's standards? Yes, yes he would be labelled that. A RINO at the very least.

Good point. Republicans have moved so far right everyone else by contrast is far left. Which is why I'm out and they'll never pull me back in. 

 

[Amused to Death]

By today's standards? Yes, yes he would be labelled that. A RINO at the very least.

Good point. Republicans have moved so far right everyone else by contrast is far left. Which is why I'm out and they'll never pull me back in. 

St. Ronald advocated open borders, amnesty for illegal immigrants, and sensible gun control (with the full support of the NRA). Try getting through today's GOP primary with THAT in your background.

 

[BroadwayG]

What happens when that work permit runs out and they don't want to go back?

They get it renewed or become illegal.

 

[KCitons]

I've made this suggestion before, I will reiterate it again. 

I believe we need a wall, but I would be willing to offer a compromise. A secure city on our Southern border. Let's call it Hope City (that way  the bleeding hearts can feel warm and fuzzy). Hope City would be just like any other city. Not a tent city or barracks. It would consist of single family homes, businesses, healthcare, schools and government offices. When someone seeks entry into this country they are moved to Hope City. There they are documented, given a checkup, educated and trained. They live and work for a period of time while their case is being reviewed. Once approved, they are allowed to move to another city. Perhaps companies would utilize the opportunity to train or intern immigrants while they are at Hope City and have a job offer for them. 

I could also see government funded education that would require students to work in Hope City for a period of 2 years after their graduation. This would be a win-win for both sides. 

 

[timschochet]

St. Ronald advocated open borders, amnesty for illegal immigrants, and sensible gun control (with the full support of the NRA). Try getting through today's GOP primary with THAT in your background.

Some of the reasons I regard him as the greatest President of my lifetime. 

 

[KCitons]

They get it renewed or become illegal.

Which is where we are today. Those that came here and had their work visas expire. 

 

[KCitons]

I think almost every single person on here wants similar things when it comes to immigration.  Most of us want immigrants to come here legally, we just disagree on how to make that happen.  I would like to see more effort put into making the process easier for immigrants, streamlined, like you said.  All this Trump talk about a stupid wall is counter productive.

Right. But the problem with most people is that they see anyone that supports a wall as being a Trump supporter. 

What is your solution to streamline the process?

 

[roadkill1292]

Some of the reasons I regard him as the greatest President of my lifetime. 

That's a fairly low bar. And I'm not sure he clears it anyway.

 

[Hawkeye21]

I've made this suggestion before, I will reiterate it again. 

I believe we need a wall, but I would be willing to offer a compromise. A secure city on our Southern border. Let's call it Hope City (that way  the bleeding hearts can feel warm and fuzzy). Hope City would be just like any other city. Not a tent city or barracks. It would consist of single family homes, businesses, healthcare, schools and government offices. When someone seeks entry into this country they are moved to Hope City. There they are documented, given a checkup, educated and trained. They live and work for a period of time while their case is being reviewed. Once approved, they are allowed to move to another city. Perhaps companies would utilize the opportunity to train or intern immigrants while they are at Hope City and have a job offer for them. 

I could also see government funded education that would require students to work in Hope City for a period of 2 years after their graduation. This would be a win-win for both sides. 

It's not your worst idea.

 

[KCitons]

We disagree quite strongly I guess. Not the first time. 

That's because you want to give everyone a free pass. I want rules and order.

 

[timschochet]

I've made this suggestion before, I will reiterate it again. 

I believe we need a wall, but I would be willing to offer a compromise. A secure city on our Southern border. Let's call it Hope City (that way  the bleeding hearts can feel warm and fuzzy). Hope City would be just like any other city. Not a tent city or barracks. It would consist of single family homes, businesses, healthcare, schools and government offices. When someone seeks entry into this country they are moved to Hope City. There they are documented, given a checkup, educated and trained. They live and work for a period of time while their case is being reviewed. Once approved, they are allowed to move to another city. Perhaps companies would utilize the opportunity to train or intern immigrants while they are at Hope City and have a job offer for them. 

I could also see government funded education that would require students to work in Hope City for a period of 2 years after their graduation. This would be a win-win for both sides. 

Interesting idea but it would fall apart in execution. 

We have always had undocumented immigration. We’ve never been able to control it. We never will, and IMO we never should. But if your goal is to reduce it and control it better, the solution is not a wall but to help nations like Guatemala and El Salvador become economically stable. And the other solution is to widen our current immigration laws and allow a lot more people in legally, particularly from countries south of our border. 

 

[Hawkeye21]

Right. But the problem with most people is that they see anyone that supports a wall as being a Trump supporter. 

What is your solution to streamline the process?

Adding more man power to speed up the process would help.  More judges.  Being able to take on more cases would be helpful in speeding up the process.  Making these people feel safe and giving them a fair opportunity to enter our country legally could go a long way.  Most of these people are looking for a better life and they can be a great asset to our country.  Let's work together.

 

[Hawkeye21]

Interesting idea but it would fall apart in execution. 

We have always had undocumented immigration. We’ve never been able to control it. We never will, and IMO we never should. But if your goal is to reduce it and control it better, the solution is not a wall but to help nations like Guatemala and El Salvador become economically stable. And the other solution is to widen our current immigration laws and allow a lot more people in legally, particularly from countries south of our border. 

This is the best solution in my opinion.  Give those people a reason to stay in their countries instead of fleeing to ours.  That's a win/win for everyone right there.

 

[timschochet]

That's because you want to give everyone a free pass. I want rules and order.

So do I. And no free passes for anyone. 

For example I don’t believe in amnesty. I want every undocumented person living here to pay a fine, perhaps $5000. Then they are allowed to stay. But there has to be some kind of penalty first. And I would never allow any undocumented person who came here as an adult  to be a citizen with the right to vote. They get to stay and their kids can become citizens. But if they came here illegally then they never get that right. 

 

[KCitons]

Interesting idea but it would fall apart in execution. 

We have always had undocumented immigration. We’ve never been able to control it. We never will, and IMO we never should. But if your goal is to reduce it and control it better, the solution is not a wall but to help nations like Guatemala and El Salvador become economically stable. And the other solution is to widen our current immigration laws and allow a lot more people in legally, particularly from countries south of our border. 

At least we can control all aspects on our own soil. 

 

[tonydead]

Does it make much sense to reduce the number of people coming here when we have a surplus of jobs right now?  Shouldn't we be striving to find people to work these jobs, especially ones that Americans are not willing to work?

Jobs are just a single factor.  Where I live there isn't enough housing and the freeways are a ##### during rush hour.

 

[Mile High]

This is the best solution in my opinion.  Give those people a reason to stay in their countries instead of fleeing to ours.  That's a win/win for everyone right there.

Is it really a win/win? True is we need the labor force.  

 

[KCitons]

Jobs are just a single factor.  Where I live there isn't enough housing and the freeways are a ##### during rush hour.

This is a good point. We need to have a plan to move people to places within the country that need (and can handle) the influx of population. When you walk across the border, chances are, you're not going to walk to Maine. 

 

[Hawkeye21]

Jobs are just a single factor.  Where I live there isn't enough housing and the freeways are a ##### during rush hour.

Building more housing and improving transportation is very important.  That means more work and more jobs too.  I agree that those need to be taken care of as well.