Unethical? (2 Viewers)

[AnonymousBob]

I'm not sure I understand the big to-do. Shouldn't the other owners be thanking you now that you have saddled an opponent with Tatum Bell?

That's also a part of my strategy. I also locked OchoCinco to a massive contract then dumped him so whoever picked him up got stuck with it. Last year things backfired on me when Graham was stinking it up and convinced another owner to dump him and saddle another team with a waste of roster space. I believe there is a strategy to get other owners to load up with players that suck up roster spots but will rarely, if ever, start.

So what you're saying is you take this game we play so seriously, that you have become a piece of garbage. Seriously? Convincing other owners to pick up other players who are "wastes of roster space?" Seriously?

You're overreacting.

Maybe so. But as far as I'm concerned the dude has issues. Now, I don't play in contract leagues so I'm not wired like those of you who are. And maybe that sort of thing goes on in contract leagues. But it seems super bush to me. I mean, "I also locked OchoCinco to a massive contract then dumped him so whoever picked him up got stuck with it" is not what I want going on in my league. If I were commish and I found out that someone was purposely tainting player values by inflating their "contract" effectively rendering them un-signable for the rest of the league, said owner would not be in my league any longer. But it sounds like at least half of you subscribe to the "if you ain't cheating you ain't trying" mantra. This to me is unfortunate. I want to win as much as the next guy but I'm above contriving to do so. Call me ethical.

Everybody can see OchoCinco's contract. In fact I was talking to two owners recently and one told me he had put in a bid for Chad but pulled it back when he saw the size of the contract. The other owner told me he had put in a bid but missed out on the guy. The person who picked up Chad didn't realize the size of the contract. It's his fault and he's now stuck with that contract. If OchoCinco reverts back to his top 10 form then the contract isn't that unreasonable. I had locked him up and was planning on trading him off but if I ended up getting stuck with the guy I would have been okay. When he continued to falter I just cut him. I appreciate the feedback and it people are making great points on both sides.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

Unethical IMO.

It IS borders on collusion.

Fixed

Ridiculous to call that collusion. The OP didn't make any agreements, didn't do anything illegal or against the rules, and didn't do anything in secret. Look up the definition of collusion, because you don't seem to understand the term.I run a very competitive league, but I wouldn't suggest that buddies stop talking to each other about the waver wire. That's asinine.

 

[Dirty Weasel]

Someone made a good point when they said "unsolicited" advice. You chose to take fresh info and provide it to a select few. It doesn't matter that you think these may be the only teams that could use Tatum. Let me run a scenario by you:

You are Team A and you play against Team B in week 13, which is the last regular season game in your league. Team B is one game behind you, and basically, you guys are battling for the last playoff spot. Team B gets a trade offer from Team C, and then asks you for advice, because he is a newbie and thinks you know your stuff. You look and see that although the trade is just slightly in Team B's favor, the RB he would be giving up has a brutal matchup in week 13, and the RB he would be getting has a great matchup. Team B doesn't realize that he will likely beat you in a few weeks if he accepts this trade, and as a newbie, has no idea that you have a stake in whether or not he accepts the trade. He only thinks you will give him advice based solely on the trade at hand, and not how it will affect his week 13 game with you. Do you tell Team B to accept the deal?

OK, same scenario as above, but with a twist. Team C is the guy who you said was complaining. He is already assured of a playoff spot, and knows you and Team B are battling for the last spot. Team C offers team Team B a deal that would give him 2 RB's with great matchups in week 13, and to top it off, tells Team B that if he accepts it, he will surely beat you. And let's just say Team C fears Team B more, but dislikes you and is only making this trade to tick you off.

The best advice you can give, whether it be solicited or unsolicited, is to point people to fantasy websites. Let them cruise the threads and make up their own mind. The answer to every single FF question ever asked can be found online. And I would even go so far as to say, do not suggest specific websites. Just have them "google".

 

[PatsFanCT]

Come on, it's not like this was insider trading. The information was available if they did any kind of research on their own. The talk of Bell going back to the Broncos started last Thursday night, as soon as Torain went down. You snooze, you lose.

no problem whatsoever with this.

 

[AgentMulder]

I'm surprised there is this much uproar about what equates to a simple recommendation. I give recommendations and take recommendations all the time when talking football with friends and league members. I don't necessarily tell everything I know, nor do I believe everything I'm told, but if I want to give some information that may help or hurt me so be it. There is nothing wrong with what this person did.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Someone made a good point when they said "unsolicited" advice. You chose to take fresh info and provide it to a select few. It doesn't matter that you think these may be the only teams that could use Tatum. Let me run a scenario by you:You are Team A and you play against Team B in week 13, which is the last regular season game in your league. Team B is one game behind you, and basically, you guys are battling for the last playoff spot. Team B gets a trade offer from Team C, and then asks you for advice, because he is a newbie and thinks you know your stuff. You look and see that although the trade is just slightly in Team B's favor, the RB he would be giving up has a brutal matchup in week 13, and the RB he would be getting has a great matchup. Team B doesn't realize that he will likely beat you in a few weeks if he accepts this trade, and as a newbie, has no idea that you have a stake in whether or not he accepts the trade. He only thinks you will give him advice based solely on the trade at hand, and not how it will affect his week 13 game with you. Do you tell Team B to accept the deal?OK, same scenario as above, but with a twist. Team C is the guy who you said was complaining. He is already assured of a playoff spot, and knows you and Team B are battling for the last spot. Team C offers team Team B a deal that would give him 2 RB's with great matchups in week 13, and to top it off, tells Team B that if he accepts it, he will surely beat you. And let's just say Team C fears Team B more, but dislikes you and is only making this trade to tick you off.The best advice you can give, whether it be solicited or unsolicited, is to point people to fantasy websites. Let them cruise the threads and make up their own mind. The answer to every single FF question ever asked can be found online. And I would even go so far as to say, do not suggest specific websites. Just have them "google".

I've told all of my friends who joined this league about this place. I told them all when they first joined the league about these forums and have never said anything else about this place. If they take me up on it then good luck to them. If they don't check this place out then it's their look. Is it cheating because I never mentioned fbg's to the other owners?I've had people ask me for trade advice numerous times and each time I've given answers I felt were truthful and helpful. If a trade has potentially hit too close to home I've either refused to give the person advice or I've told them I'm biased so my opinion may not be the greatest.Any trades I've ever made have a benefit on my team. As in, helped the actual players I play each week, not just to help my ranking. Sometimes it helps the people I trade with win a game that week or in future weeks but I always end up with players that I believe will improve my weekly scoring or I won't make a deal.

 

[Dirty Weasel]

Someone made a good point when they said "unsolicited" advice. You chose to take fresh info and provide it to a select few. It doesn't matter that you think these may be the only teams that could use Tatum. Let me run a scenario by you:You are Team A and you play against Team B in week 13, which is the last regular season game in your league. Team B is one game behind you, and basically, you guys are battling for the last playoff spot. Team B gets a trade offer from Team C, and then asks you for advice, because he is a newbie and thinks you know your stuff. You look and see that although the trade is just slightly in Team B's favor, the RB he would be giving up has a brutal matchup in week 13, and the RB he would be getting has a great matchup. Team B doesn't realize that he will likely beat you in a few weeks if he accepts this trade, and as a newbie, has no idea that you have a stake in whether or not he accepts the trade. He only thinks you will give him advice based solely on the trade at hand, and not how it will affect his week 13 game with you. Do you tell Team B to accept the deal?OK, same scenario as above, but with a twist. Team C is the guy who you said was complaining. He is already assured of a playoff spot, and knows you and Team B are battling for the last spot. Team C offers team Team B a deal that would give him 2 RB's with great matchups in week 13, and to top it off, tells Team B that if he accepts it, he will surely beat you. And let's just say Team C fears Team B more, but dislikes you and is only making this trade to tick you off.The best advice you can give, whether it be solicited or unsolicited, is to point people to fantasy websites. Let them cruise the threads and make up their own mind. The answer to every single FF question ever asked can be found online. And I would even go so far as to say, do not suggest specific websites. Just have them "google".

I've told all of my friends who joined this league about this place. I told them all when they first joined the league about these forums and have never said anything else about this place. If they take me up on it then good luck to them. If they don't check this place out then it's their look. Is it cheating because I never mentioned fbg's to the other owners?I've had people ask me for trade advice numerous times and each time I've given answers I felt were truthful and helpful. If a trade has potentially hit too close to home I've either refused to give the person advice or I've told them I'm biased so my opinion may not be the greatest.Any trades I've ever made have a benefit on my team. As in, helped the actual players I play each week, not just to help my ranking. Sometimes it helps the people I trade with win a game that week or in future weeks but I always end up with players that I believe will improve my weekly scoring or I won't make a deal.

Bob,I just felt like I had to respond, because I am in the same boat in about 3 leagues. I seem to be the most diehard, and surely the only one with a paid subscription to FF's best website. I end up managing other people's teams, because they ask so much advice. "Hey, who should I start this week?" "What does the pay content at FBG say I should do?" I end up alienating other owners who know I am helping out other teams. And the worst part is - trading with me becomes nonexistent. If I offer a trade it gets automatically rejected, because the other person assumes I am scamming them somehow, like I have a magic 8 ball. I have learned my lesson, and will not offer advice anymore, even if solicited. No FF'er ever got accused of not giving advice to another team.I am bowing out of my only keeper league at the end of the year because of this. I just offered a trade, and the reply was, "Why exactly do you want my guy, when your guy is better?". What kind of a response is that? Do your own research, then accept, reject, or counteroffer me. I shouldn't have to tell you why I want your guy. Every trade this year has been like this. I am going into the FF witness protection program after this year, and emerging next year in some fresh new leagues. And I will be quiet as a church mouse.

 

[the_sig]

Come on, it's not like this was insider trading. The information was available if they did any kind of research on their own. The talk of Bell going back to the Broncos started last Thursday night, as soon as Torain went down. You snooze, you lose.no problem whatsoever with this.

To continue with this analogy, let's say that anyone who reads the newspaper can reasonably say that Company XYZ is a good buy, ready to take off. Let's say the OP has 4 buddies, but he privately reminds 2 of them with a personal phone call to call their broker in the morning and buy the stock. At the end of the week, all 4 buddies are at the bar with the OP and the 2 who got the phone calls are giving high-fives to the OP because the stock has doubled. If you are one of the 2 buddies who is 'just supposed to read the paper' you are probably thinking wtf? To the OP, if the info is good, why play favorites? I think you know the reason is because by selectively releasing the information, you have the 'possibility' to influence outcomes in a manner favorable to you.To the OP's scenario, collusion? Not a chance imo. Bush league? maybe. Sounds like you have turnover in this league with a few spots each year. You also mentioned other owners 'talked to the new guys and gave them advice on how to run things' and you like to give out your selective weekly updates. Have you considered just shrinking the league from 14 to 12 or 12 to 10 teams so you have a bunch of guys who all agree with you and don't need to have their hands held with team/roster management 'help'? Just a thought.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

the Shark Pool never fails to amaze

I am completely dumbfounded by this thread - that the question would even be asked or that anyone could possibly think this type of conversation is in any way inappropriate.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

Come on, it's not like this was insider trading. The information was available if they did any kind of research on their own. The talk of Bell going back to the Broncos started last Thursday night, as soon as Torain went down. You snooze, you lose.no problem whatsoever with this.

To continue with this analogy, let's say that anyone who reads the newspaper can reasonably say that Company XYZ is a good buy, ready to take off. Let's say the OP has 4 buddies, but he privately reminds 2 of them with a personal phone call to call their broker in the morning and buy the stock. At the end of the week, all 4 buddies are at the bar with the OP and the 2 who got the phone calls are giving high-fives to the OP because the stock has doubled. If you are one of the 2 buddies who is 'just supposed to read the paper' you are probably thinking wtf? To the OP, if the info is good, why play favorites? I think you know the reason is because by selectively releasing the information, you have the 'possibility' to influence outcomes in a manner favorable to you.To the OP's scenario, collusion? Not a chance imo. Bush league? maybe. Sounds like you have turnover in this league with a few spots each year. You also mentioned other owners 'talked to the new guys and gave them advice on how to run things' and you like to give out your selective weekly updates. Have you considered just shrinking the league from 14 to 12 or 12 to 10 teams so you have a bunch of guys who all agree with you and don't need to have their hands held with team/roster management 'help'? Just a thought.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Come on, it's not like this was insider trading. The information was available if they did any kind of research on their own. The talk of Bell going back to the Broncos started last Thursday night, as soon as Torain went down. You snooze, you lose.no problem whatsoever with this.

To continue with this analogy, let's say that anyone who reads the newspaper can reasonably say that Company XYZ is a good buy, ready to take off. Let's say the OP has 4 buddies, but he privately reminds 2 of them with a personal phone call to call their broker in the morning and buy the stock. At the end of the week, all 4 buddies are at the bar with the OP and the 2 who got the phone calls are giving high-fives to the OP because the stock has doubled. If you are one of the 2 buddies who is 'just supposed to read the paper' you are probably thinking wtf? To the OP, if the info is good, why play favorites? I think you know the reason is because by selectively releasing the information, you have the 'possibility' to influence outcomes in a manner favorable to you.To the OP's scenario, collusion? Not a chance imo. Bush league? maybe. Sounds like you have turnover in this league with a few spots each year. You also mentioned other owners 'talked to the new guys and gave them advice on how to run things' and you like to give out your selective weekly updates. Have you considered just shrinking the league from 14 to 12 or 12 to 10 teams so you have a bunch of guys who all agree with you and don't need to have their hands held with team/roster management 'help'? Just a thought.

If you are an investor, always looking for the next good buy, and that information is readily available in a newspaper, then chances are all four guys are High-Fiving each other at the bar when the stock takes off regardless of who told who.

 

[the_sig]

Come on, it's not like this was insider trading. The information was available if they did any kind of research on their own. The talk of Bell going back to the Broncos started last Thursday night, as soon as Torain went down. You snooze, you lose.no problem whatsoever with this.

To continue with this analogy, let's say that anyone who reads the newspaper can reasonably say that Company XYZ is a good buy, ready to take off. Let's say the OP has 4 buddies, but he privately reminds 2 of them with a personal phone call to call their broker in the morning and buy the stock. At the end of the week, all 4 buddies are at the bar with the OP and the 2 who got the phone calls are giving high-fives to the OP because the stock has doubled. If you are one of the 2 buddies who is 'just supposed to read the paper' you are probably thinking wtf? To the OP, if the info is good, why play favorites? I think you know the reason is because by selectively releasing the information, you have the 'possibility' to influence outcomes in a manner favorable to you.To the OP's scenario, collusion? Not a chance imo. Bush league? maybe. Sounds like you have turnover in this league with a few spots each year. You also mentioned other owners 'talked to the new guys and gave them advice on how to run things' and you like to give out your selective weekly updates. Have you considered just shrinking the league from 14 to 12 or 12 to 10 teams so you have a bunch of guys who all agree with you and don't need to have their hands held with team/roster management 'help'? Just a thought.

If you are an investor, always looking for the next good buy, and that information is readily available in a newspaper, then chances are all four guys are High-Fiving each other at the bar when the stock takes off regardless of who told who.

Agree, all *should* know what is going on, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. This also gets to my point of playing favorites. Why? Why selectively tell 2 guys, and not 2 others? What is gained by sharing with some, and witholding from others? It probably takes more effort to pm just two guys, instead of a blanket statement on the message board to inform all. If it gets to the point where you are trying to help manage rosters of weaker teams to influence things, either cut the weaker teams from the league, or join a tougher league was my thought.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Come on, it's not like this was insider trading. The information was available if they did any kind of research on their own. The talk of Bell going back to the Broncos started last Thursday night, as soon as Torain went down. You snooze, you lose.no problem whatsoever with this.

To continue with this analogy, let's say that anyone who reads the newspaper can reasonably say that Company XYZ is a good buy, ready to take off. Let's say the OP has 4 buddies, but he privately reminds 2 of them with a personal phone call to call their broker in the morning and buy the stock. At the end of the week, all 4 buddies are at the bar with the OP and the 2 who got the phone calls are giving high-fives to the OP because the stock has doubled. If you are one of the 2 buddies who is 'just supposed to read the paper' you are probably thinking wtf? To the OP, if the info is good, why play favorites? I think you know the reason is because by selectively releasing the information, you have the 'possibility' to influence outcomes in a manner favorable to you.To the OP's scenario, collusion? Not a chance imo. Bush league? maybe. Sounds like you have turnover in this league with a few spots each year. You also mentioned other owners 'talked to the new guys and gave them advice on how to run things' and you like to give out your selective weekly updates. Have you considered just shrinking the league from 14 to 12 or 12 to 10 teams so you have a bunch of guys who all agree with you and don't need to have their hands held with team/roster management 'help'? Just a thought.

Are you kidding me? Many of you have made many valid points but you seem to be forgetting that this Tatum Bell news is/was out there for all to read. And did you even read what I wrote them?

 

[AnonymousBob]

Come on, it's not like this was insider trading. The information was available if they did any kind of research on their own. The talk of Bell going back to the Broncos started last Thursday night, as soon as Torain went down. You snooze, you lose.no problem whatsoever with this.

To continue with this analogy, let's say that anyone who reads the newspaper can reasonably say that Company XYZ is a good buy, ready to take off. Let's say the OP has 4 buddies, but he privately reminds 2 of them with a personal phone call to call their broker in the morning and buy the stock. At the end of the week, all 4 buddies are at the bar with the OP and the 2 who got the phone calls are giving high-fives to the OP because the stock has doubled. If you are one of the 2 buddies who is 'just supposed to read the paper' you are probably thinking wtf? To the OP, if the info is good, why play favorites? I think you know the reason is because by selectively releasing the information, you have the 'possibility' to influence outcomes in a manner favorable to you.To the OP's scenario, collusion? Not a chance imo. Bush league? maybe. Sounds like you have turnover in this league with a few spots each year. You also mentioned other owners 'talked to the new guys and gave them advice on how to run things' and you like to give out your selective weekly updates. Have you considered just shrinking the league from 14 to 12 or 12 to 10 teams so you have a bunch of guys who all agree with you and don't need to have their hands held with team/roster management 'help'? Just a thought.

If you are an investor, always looking for the next good buy, and that information is readily available in a newspaper, then chances are all four guys are High-Fiving each other at the bar when the stock takes off regardless of who told who.

Agree, all *should* know what is going on, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. This also gets to my point of playing favorites. Why? Why selectively tell 2 guys, and not 2 others? What is gained by sharing with some, and witholding from others? It probably takes more effort to pm just two guys, instead of a blanket statement on the message board to inform all. If it gets to the point where you are trying to help manage rosters of weaker teams to influence things, either cut the weaker teams from the league, or join a tougher league was my thought.

The weaker owners are weeded out regularly. There were only four owners who might be able to use Tatum. I told two of them. The other two I didn't tell because one of them knows any and every bit of information that's ever been out there and the other one is a lost cause who is a terrible owner and won't be back next year. He barely manages his roster and he doesn't want help. If more teams had been short a rb I might've sent them a message as well. And as I said earlier, I mentioned Tatum going to Denver with at least one other owner (not of the above 4) in a phone conversation while just talking about fantasy football.This wasn't secret information.

 

[Dirty Weasel]

Come on, it's not like this was insider trading. The information was available if they did any kind of research on their own. The talk of Bell going back to the Broncos started last Thursday night, as soon as Torain went down. You snooze, you lose.

no problem whatsoever with this.

To continue with this analogy, let's say that anyone who reads the newspaper can reasonably say that Company XYZ is a good buy, ready to take off. Let's say the OP has 4 buddies, but he privately reminds 2 of them with a personal phone call to call their broker in the morning and buy the stock. At the end of the week, all 4 buddies are at the bar with the OP and the 2 who got the phone calls are giving high-fives to the OP because the stock has doubled. If you are one of the 2 buddies who is 'just supposed to read the paper' you are probably thinking wtf? To the OP, if the info is good, why play favorites? I think you know the reason is because by selectively releasing the information, you have the 'possibility' to influence outcomes in a manner favorable to you.To the OP's scenario, collusion? Not a chance imo. Bush league? maybe. Sounds like you have turnover in this league with a few spots each year. You also mentioned other owners 'talked to the new guys and gave them advice on how to run things' and you like to give out your selective weekly updates. Have you considered just shrinking the league from 14 to 12 or 12 to 10 teams so you have a bunch of guys who all agree with you and don't need to have their hands held with team/roster management 'help'? Just a thought.

If you are an investor, always looking for the next good buy, and that information is readily available in a newspaper, then chances are all four guys are High-Fiving each other at the bar when the stock takes off regardless of who told who.

Agree, all *should* know what is going on, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. This also gets to my point of playing favorites. Why? Why selectively tell 2 guys, and not 2 others? What is gained by sharing with some, and witholding from others? It probably takes more effort to pm just two guys, instead of a blanket statement on the message board to inform all. If it gets to the point where you are trying to help manage rosters of weaker teams to influence things, either cut the weaker teams from the league, or join a tougher league was my thought.

The weaker owners are weeded out regularly. There were only four owners who might be able to use Tatum. I told two of them. The other two I didn't tell because one of them knows any and every bit of information that's ever been out there and the other one is a lost cause who is a terrible owner and won't be back next year. He barely manages his roster and he doesn't want help. If more teams had been short a rb I might've sent them a message as well. And as I said earlier, I mentioned Tatum going to Denver with at least one other owner (not of the above 4) in a phone conversation while just talking about fantasy football.This wasn't secret information.

I've bolded two important statements. First, you have decided on your own that Tatum Bell may only have use on 4 teams. Who are you to decide which teams may have a use for Tatum? Sure, I am quite certain you are right when you say the remaining teams wouldn't need Tatum, but you have chosen to share what you thought was early info with two people you thought may not be "in the know". If you assumed it was common knowledge that Tatum was coming back, you wouldn't have told anyone. You simply would've sat back and expected these two teams to go after Tatum. You said yourself that this wasn't secret info, yet you still told the 2 people you wanted Tatum to go to.

 

[Nate]

the Shark Pool never fails to amazeI am completely dumbfounded by this thread - that the question would even be asked or that anyone could possibly think this type of conversation is in any way inappropriate.

Sharing NFL news is bordering collusion? Some of you guys need to unplug.I routinely do this. If giving advice to another owner strengthens my position, I do it. Every time.

 

[AnonymousBob]

I've bolded two important statements. First, you have decided on your own that Tatum Bell may only have use on 4 teams. Who are you to decide which teams may have a use for Tatum? Sure, I am quite certain you are right when you say the remaining teams wouldn't need Tatum, but you have chosen to share what you thought was early info with two people you thought may not be "in the know". If you assumed it was common knowledge that Tatum was coming back, you wouldn't have told anyone. You simply would've sat back and expected these two teams to go after Tatum. You said yourself that this wasn't secret info, yet you still told the 2 people you wanted Tatum to go to.

I should have been more clear. There are only four teams that have the room to pick up Tatum without having to face a difficult decision as to who to drop. The other owners may certainly be able to use the guy but they would be faced with imo a problem when it came who to drop. The four owners I've mentioned could easily pick him up without losing anybody of the smallest amount of value.It was out there for all to see/find. And I had my reasons for informing these people of public information. You're right in one regard.

 

[madd futher]

Did they PAY you for the info? Then I don't have a problem with it at all. IMO T Bell has almost no value - he didn't make the Lions basically because he was out of shape; does anyone seriously think he is in better shap now after spending 2 months selling cell phones? The only reason he was signed is because he knows the Denver offensive terminology and system. They need to have SOMEONE available in case Hillis gets hurt.

I'd be happy to tell my competitor that the great Tatum Bell is back with Denver (and hope they took the bait) - and I'm talking about someone who is in contention with me.

(If they did pay you a 'consulting fee' for this info, they should terminate your consulting contract immediately.)

 

[DrJamesAndrews Fan]

Ethical, Shmethical. I would do the same thing if it help my team.

 

[Dirty Weasel]

I've bolded two important statements. First, you have decided on your own that Tatum Bell may only have use on 4 teams. Who are you to decide which teams may have a use for Tatum? Sure, I am quite certain you are right when you say the remaining teams wouldn't need Tatum, but you have chosen to share what you thought was early info with two people you thought may not be "in the know". If you assumed it was common knowledge that Tatum was coming back, you wouldn't have told anyone. You simply would've sat back and expected these two teams to go after Tatum. You said yourself that this wasn't secret info, yet you still told the 2 people you wanted Tatum to go to.

I should have been more clear. There are only four teams that have the room to pick up Tatum without having to face a difficult decision as to who to drop. The other owners may certainly be able to use the guy but they would be faced with imo a problem when it came who to drop. The four owners I've mentioned could easily pick him up without losing anybody of the smallest amount of value.It was out there for all to see/find. And I had my reasons for informing these people of public information. You're right in one regard.

As I said in an earlier post, up until this year I would've (and did many times) offer advice to weaker teams, or even strong teams, as long as I thought it would benefit me in some way. But over the course of a few years in my favorite keeper league, it came back to bite me. Teams still came to me for trade advice and the most current info, but when it came to trading with me, no one would do it. I'm not tooting my own horn, but it sucks when you always have the lowest pick on the WW and no one will trade with you. It may feel nice to be the guy that others come to for advice, but it comes with a huge price. You are recognized as the league shark.

 

[Angrymutt]

I recently sent a couple of owners a personal message letting them know about Tatum Bell (I dropped this knowledge to them as soon as it was reported in the Shark Pool). I did it for a couple reasons but the main reason is their teams suck and I don't feel threatened by their rosters. I figure it's all a part of strategy - if there's somebody out there I'll be happier with them on somebody's roster that isn't a threat to me. In my mind it's the same reason I've rostered Chester Taylor all season - I probably won't use the guy but if he gets his chance and does well I'd much rather have him blow up while my main threats don't get to use him.I had one owner complain that what I'm doing is unethical. He's a new owner and has complained about a lot of things so I don't put as much stock in his word as I would one of the older owners but I still agreed to post it here and ask you guys.I didn't make it a poll because people like to vote without reading.

Only unethical if you kept insisting on someone picking him up. And this is after the owners you told this to, ran around with their fingers in there ears screaming, "Lalalalalalalala! I can't here you! Lalalalalalalalalala!"

 

[gonzobill5]

Am I the only one that gets the impression that this "strategy" wasn't only to improve his chances, but also to exact some sort of revenge on the whiner?

If it was only to improve his chances, then I think this is the lamest strategy I've ever heard of. This game is about football, when it starts to get more about finding loopholes in the rulebook, that's when I've had enough.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Am I the only one that gets the impression that this "strategy" wasn't only to improve his chances, but also to exact some sort of revenge on the whiner? If it was only to improve his chances, then I think this is the lamest strategy I've ever heard of. This game is about football, when it starts to get more about finding loopholes in the rulebook, that's when I've had enough.

This doesn't affect the whiner in the least. He has ADP and LT. He's fine. And as much as I really don't care for the guy, the only revenge I'll be getting is a win against him in the playoffs.

 

[pinequick]

Good holy christ, I CANNOT believe the number of freaking wussies on this board. Let me say this for all of you--there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING wrong with what this guy did in this instance.

This is a game of strategy and information. He used both to what he speculates might be his advantage in this instance. Other owners are free to do the same. Anybody who thinks differently really and truly is a freaking baby that should not be playing fantasy football or any other game for that matter. Holy crap.

ETA: To mellow my tone a bit (just shocked at the rank puritanism on this board), what he did was not trying to give those players bad advice--it could even be good advice. If you give advice that you know to be bad or even false, then of course I've got a problem with that. But if you strategically drop a gem here or there, I've got NO problem with that at all. None. You'd be dumb not to do it. Just because he doesn't post it to the league message board, THAT'S what you "collusion-ers" have a problem with??

 

[gonzobill5]

Am I the only one that gets the impression that this "strategy" wasn't only to improve his chances, but also to exact some sort of revenge on the whiner? If it was only to improve his chances, then I think this is the lamest strategy I've ever heard of. This game is about football, when it starts to get more about finding loopholes in the rulebook, that's when I've had enough.

This doesn't affect the whiner in the least. He has ADP and LT. He's fine. And as much as I really don't care for the guy, the only revenge I'll be getting is a win against him in the playoffs.

Understood. There is a manager in my league that despises another manager and will go to similar lengths to make sure that other manager has the greatest possible chance of losing each week. This is 6th grade girl kind of stuff. Your strategy, however, is within all rules I've ever seen, it's clever, it's out of the box, and it could certainly end up working in your favor with practically no chance that it backfires. It's not collusion or unethical. It just has nothing to do with fantasy football as I know it. Manage your team, and try to do it better than the other players. If you are commish, encourage them to be competitive for the good of the league. Otherwise, leave them to their team.

 

[AnonymousBob]

I've bolded two important statements. First, you have decided on your own that Tatum Bell may only have use on 4 teams. Who are you to decide which teams may have a use for Tatum? Sure, I am quite certain you are right when you say the remaining teams wouldn't need Tatum, but you have chosen to share what you thought was early info with two people you thought may not be "in the know". If you assumed it was common knowledge that Tatum was coming back, you wouldn't have told anyone. You simply would've sat back and expected these two teams to go after Tatum. You said yourself that this wasn't secret info, yet you still told the 2 people you wanted Tatum to go to.

I should have been more clear. There are only four teams that have the room to pick up Tatum without having to face a difficult decision as to who to drop. The other owners may certainly be able to use the guy but they would be faced with imo a problem when it came who to drop. The four owners I've mentioned could easily pick him up without losing anybody of the smallest amount of value.It was out there for all to see/find. And I had my reasons for informing these people of public information. You're right in one regard.

As I said in an earlier post, up until this year I would've (and did many times) offer advice to weaker teams, or even strong teams, as long as I thought it would benefit me in some way. But over the course of a few years in my favorite keeper league, it came back to bite me. Teams still came to me for trade advice and the most current info, but when it came to trading with me, no one would do it. I'm not tooting my own horn, but it sucks when you always have the lowest pick on the WW and no one will trade with you. It may feel nice to be the guy that others come to for advice, but it comes with a huge price. You are recognized as the league shark.

I'm known for being a bit of an eccentric but somehow I always finish amongst the best. People realize I know my stuff but it's yet to affect my ability to trade with people (and this is my fifth year). In fact aside from this new co-owner screwing things up with his partner (a team I used to trade with a fair amount), I've actually done more trading this season than in years past. People have noticed the owners who do more trading tend to finish at the top and it's really started to sweep across the league. I've been in the championship 4 years running but I've still been able to trade with everyone (but I'm still not reconized as the best in my league). Sometimes my trades don't work out in my favor but generally when everything is said and done the person I trade with ends up scoring more points than they were scoring before. I'm somebody who never has any depth - I always parlay it into better starters. Somehow I almost always manage to avoid injuries and I take advantage of those who are hit by the bug. People have come to me for advice, even the new owner before he put a target on my back and it's generally worked out. I get more satisfaction crushing a good team than I do steamrolling a lousy team, so I'll always help somebody out to get a better team. In fact, I talked to my opponent this weekend just yesterday and we were discussing who we were going to start this weekend. I don't believe he's going to take my advice but I told him the players I honestly felt would give him the best chance to beat me even though it's rather a crucial game to determine my playoff ranking.Then I told him his team is garbage anyway and he doesn't stand a chance. I really appreciate your advice as I believe you've given the best advice in this entire thread.

 

[Dirty Weasel]

Good holy christ, I CANNOT believe the number of freaking wussies on this board. Let me say this for all of you--there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING wrong with what this guy did in this instance.This is a game of strategy and information. He used both to what he speculates might be his advantage in this instance. Other owners are free to do the same. Anybody who thinks differently really and truly is a freaking baby that should not be playing fantasy football or any other game for that matter. Holy crap.ETA: To mellow my tone a bit (just shocked at the rank puritanism on this board), what he did was not trying to give those players bad advice--it's could even be good advice. If you give advice you know to be had or even false, then of course I've got a problem with that. But if you strategically drop a gem here or there, I've got NO problem with that at all. None. You'd be dumb not to do it.

I'll offer another scenario...You need Team A to beat Team B in order for you to make the playoffs. It's 12:30 on Sunday, and you notice that both teams have forgotten to take injured players out of their starting lineups. You rush to the phone and tell Team A to switch his starters, but don't do the same for Team B. Hey, it's fair, because you only offered advice, right? NO WAY!!

 

[the_sig]

Come on, it's not like this was insider trading. The information was available if they did any kind of research on their own. The talk of Bell going back to the Broncos started last Thursday night, as soon as Torain went down. You snooze, you lose.

no problem whatsoever with this.

To continue with this analogy, let's say that anyone who reads the newspaper can reasonably say that Company XYZ is a good buy, ready to take off. Let's say the OP has 4 buddies, but he privately reminds 2 of them with a personal phone call to call their broker in the morning and buy the stock. At the end of the week, all 4 buddies are at the bar with the OP and the 2 who got the phone calls are giving high-fives to the OP because the stock has doubled. If you are one of the 2 buddies who is 'just supposed to read the paper' you are probably thinking wtf? To the OP, if the info is good, why play favorites? I think you know the reason is because by selectively releasing the information, you have the 'possibility' to influence outcomes in a manner favorable to you.To the OP's scenario, collusion? Not a chance imo. Bush league? maybe. Sounds like you have turnover in this league with a few spots each year. You also mentioned other owners 'talked to the new guys and gave them advice on how to run things' and you like to give out your selective weekly updates. Have you considered just shrinking the league from 14 to 12 or 12 to 10 teams so you have a bunch of guys who all agree with you and don't need to have their hands held with team/roster management 'help'? Just a thought.

Are you kidding me? Many of you have made many valid points but you seem to be forgetting that this Tatum Bell news is/was out there for all to read. And did you even read what I wrote them?

Yeah, I read what you wrote the two owners. You sound like a swell guy. I would have given you the benefit of the doubt that telling just those 2 owners about Tinker Bell was the only two possible good owner matches, but then when you post that you make moves like sadling CJ with a huge contract to hopefully ambush a dimwit owner into wasting roster space makes me think you are a little more sly, and may not be the do gooder you want to portray here.I didn't say what you did was collusion. I didn't say it was unethical. I just said maybe it was bush league. I guess I'd need to know you better to say for sure. This one event in and of itself is pretty trivial. But don't just act like you are some service that is parroting the news here. You are selectively taking actions to try and shape things a bit in your favor. (Either keeping a good player from your 'good' competition, or by getting the dimwits to bite on the turd players).

 

[pinequick]

Good holy christ, I CANNOT believe the number of freaking wussies on this board. Let me say this for all of you--there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING wrong with what this guy did in this instance.This is a game of strategy and information. He used both to what he speculates might be his advantage in this instance. Other owners are free to do the same. Anybody who thinks differently really and truly is a freaking baby that should not be playing fantasy football or any other game for that matter. Holy crap.ETA: To mellow my tone a bit (just shocked at the rank puritanism on this board), what he did was not trying to give those players bad advice--it's could even be good advice. If you give advice you know to be had or even false, then of course I've got a problem with that. But if you strategically drop a gem here or there, I've got NO problem with that at all. None. You'd be dumb not to do it.

I'll offer another scenario...You need Team A to beat Team B in order for you to make the playoffs. It's 12:30 on Sunday, and you notice that both teams have forgotten to take injured players out of their starting lineups. You rush to the phone and tell Team A to switch his starters, but don't do the same for Team B. Hey, it's fair, because you only offered advice, right? NO WAY!!

And some other owner needs Team B to beat Team A for HIM to make the playoffs rather than me. This cuts both ways--he is just as free to get a hold of Team B as I am to get a hold of Team A.It's fair, good advice. Just because I don't share it with everybody isn't a crime. Any objection to that point really is just whining.

 

[Dirty Weasel]

Good holy christ, I CANNOT believe the number of freaking wussies on this board. Let me say this for all of you--there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING wrong with what this guy did in this instance.This is a game of strategy and information. He used both to what he speculates might be his advantage in this instance. Other owners are free to do the same. Anybody who thinks differently really and truly is a freaking baby that should not be playing fantasy football or any other game for that matter. Holy crap.ETA: To mellow my tone a bit (just shocked at the rank puritanism on this board), what he did was not trying to give those players bad advice--it's could even be good advice. If you give advice you know to be had or even false, then of course I've got a problem with that. But if you strategically drop a gem here or there, I've got NO problem with that at all. None. You'd be dumb not to do it.

I'll offer another scenario...You need Team A to beat Team B in order for you to make the playoffs. It's 12:30 on Sunday, and you notice that both teams have forgotten to take injured players out of their starting lineups. You rush to the phone and tell Team A to switch his starters, but don't do the same for Team B. Hey, it's fair, because you only offered advice, right? NO WAY!!

And some other owner needs Team B to beat Team A for HIM to make the playoffs rather than me. This cuts both ways--he is just as free to get a hold of Team B as I am to get a hold of Team A.It's fair, good advice. Just because I don't share it with everybody isn't a crime. Any objection to that point really is just whining.

What if telling Team A and not Team B allows you and Team A to make the playoffs, but not telling either one will likely mean Teams A and B make the playoffs and you are the odd man out? I'm just eliminating other options here to see what you would do. For the purpose of this hypothetical situation, would you tell Team A and not tell Team B?

 

[-baller]

no offense to the op, but this thread is ridiculous.

 

[thayman]

Good holy christ, I CANNOT believe the number of freaking wussies on this board. Let me say this for all of you--there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING wrong with what this guy did in this instance.This is a game of strategy and information. He used both to what he speculates might be his advantage in this instance. Other owners are free to do the same. Anybody who thinks differently really and truly is a freaking baby that should not be playing fantasy football or any other game for that matter. Holy crap.ETA: To mellow my tone a bit (just shocked at the rank puritanism on this board), what he did was not trying to give those players bad advice--it's could even be good advice. If you give advice you know to be had or even false, then of course I've got a problem with that. But if you strategically drop a gem here or there, I've got NO problem with that at all. None. You'd be dumb not to do it.

I'll offer another scenario...You need Team A to beat Team B in order for you to make the playoffs. It's 12:30 on Sunday, and you notice that both teams have forgotten to take injured players out of their starting lineups. You rush to the phone and tell Team A to switch his starters, but don't do the same for Team B. Hey, it's fair, because you only offered advice, right? NO WAY!!

And some other owner needs Team B to beat Team A for HIM to make the playoffs rather than me. This cuts both ways--he is just as free to get a hold of Team B as I am to get a hold of Team A.It's fair, good advice. Just because I don't share it with everybody isn't a crime. Any objection to that point really is just whining.

What if telling Team A and not Team B allows you and Team A to make the playoffs, but not telling either one will likely mean Teams A and B make the playoffs and you are the odd man out? I'm just eliminating other options here to see what you would do. For the purpose of this hypothetical situation, would you tell Team A and not tell Team B?

If they are in the middle of a playoff chase between at least three teams I think your bigger problem is why two teams haven't set their lineups by 1230 on Sunday.

 

[Ducegonads]

I'll try to cool it down for a round.

I've read the post and see two things that simply stick out.

1) You e-mailed the info to teams that may be out of it or not a threat specifically to you so that your main competition or this disliked owner couldn't pick up Bell.

2) You mentioned that things have gotten personal with this other owner.

Sounds unethical and petty. If you've been playing for as long as you say then you must of known something was going to come back down the pipe at ya. Collusion is a stretch but not a far one.

Every 24 hours the world rolls over on someone who thought they were on top of it.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Come on, it's not like this was insider trading. The information was available if they did any kind of research on their own. The talk of Bell going back to the Broncos started last Thursday night, as soon as Torain went down. You snooze, you lose.

no problem whatsoever with this.

To continue with this analogy, let's say that anyone who reads the newspaper can reasonably say that Company XYZ is a good buy, ready to take off. Let's say the OP has 4 buddies, but he privately reminds 2 of them with a personal phone call to call their broker in the morning and buy the stock. At the end of the week, all 4 buddies are at the bar with the OP and the 2 who got the phone calls are giving high-fives to the OP because the stock has doubled. If you are one of the 2 buddies who is 'just supposed to read the paper' you are probably thinking wtf? To the OP, if the info is good, why play favorites? I think you know the reason is because by selectively releasing the information, you have the 'possibility' to influence outcomes in a manner favorable to you.To the OP's scenario, collusion? Not a chance imo. Bush league? maybe. Sounds like you have turnover in this league with a few spots each year. You also mentioned other owners 'talked to the new guys and gave them advice on how to run things' and you like to give out your selective weekly updates. Have you considered just shrinking the league from 14 to 12 or 12 to 10 teams so you have a bunch of guys who all agree with you and don't need to have their hands held with team/roster management 'help'? Just a thought.

Are you kidding me? Many of you have made many valid points but you seem to be forgetting that this Tatum Bell news is/was out there for all to read. And did you even read what I wrote them?

Yeah, I read what you wrote the two owners. You sound like a swell guy. I would have given you the benefit of the doubt that telling just those 2 owners about Tinker Bell was the only two possible good owner matches, but then when you post that you make moves like sadling CJ with a huge contract to hopefully ambush a dimwit owner into wasting roster space makes me think you are a little more sly, and may not be the do gooder you want to portray here.I didn't say what you did was collusion. I didn't say it was unethical. I just said maybe it was bush league. I guess I'd need to know you better to say for sure. This one event in and of itself is pretty trivial. But don't just act like you are some service that is parroting the news here. You are selectively taking actions to try and shape things a bit in your favor. (Either keeping a good player from your 'good' competition, or by getting the dimwits to bite on the turd players).

I have no issue saying this move benefits me in some way. If somebody asks me advice I'll give them the best I can because I'm a nice guy and I don't believe it's okay to lie when somebody comes to you asking your opinion. Other than that? We all make moves because it benefit our team in some way. I am not trying to portray myself as a do-gooder or some slimebag. I have my moments of both and I'm not ashamed of that in the least. Heck, I'll readily admit when I pull one over on somebody - I just didn't see the issue with what I did here. As I said before, had somebody other than the whiner in my league brought this issue up I would have given it a lot more weight. But he's cried about all kinds of things and I really don't like the guy so I reconized I have a bias against him. I agreed to post the question here.There were four owners who could have easily added Tatum. I told two of them. Of the two owners I failed to inform, one is a Shark (I never have any information that's new to him) so I don't even bother sharing stuff with him unless it happens to come up in conversation. The other owner I failed to inform is a lost cause - he'll likely be gone next year. His team is pathetic, his moves have been terrible and barring a miracle he won't make the playoffs. He's made it clear he doesn't need/want advice and has convinced himself he knows what he's doing. He has a good chance of finishing with the worst record I've ever seen since joining this league. I really don't waste my time with this guy. I haven't sent him any trade offers or advice since week 7. Both owners I informed of this are not in my division (whereas the whiner is in my division). I even went back and checked the games played thus far - the only way this move affects the whiner is if A) he was going to pick up Tatum (he would have to drop Kevin Smith for that to happen, which I know he'd never do) or B) he ends up facing the other owners in the championship game (very unlikely as their teams are going to need a lot of luck to make it that far). The two owners I failed to inform are in my division but there's no way whatsoever they can catch me nor do I play either one of them again.

As far as the OchoCinco issue, everybody knows who has a contract and how much it's for. The owner who picked him up is generally one of the better owners (I've played him in the championship 2 out of the last 4 years) so I wouldn't call him a dimwit. I just know people won't be able to resist picking up a name. I couldn't trade him away because of the contract so I outright cut the guy. I put him under the contract and had planned to give him to somebody who needed the production and was willing to pay the penalty next year for production this year. When he didn't produce my plan backfired.

ETA - I do play one of the owners I told about Tatum the week before the playoffs start. Whether I win or lose could end up affecting my playoff ranking - if I win I'll probably face the whiner but if I lose the whiner plays somebody else that week.

 

[AnonymousBob]

no offense to the op, but this thread is ridiculous.

No offense taken. At least you didn't pour salt in the womb.

 

[Dirty Weasel]

Good holy christ, I CANNOT believe the number of freaking wussies on this board. Let me say this for all of you--there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING wrong with what this guy did in this instance.This is a game of strategy and information. He used both to what he speculates might be his advantage in this instance. Other owners are free to do the same. Anybody who thinks differently really and truly is a freaking baby that should not be playing fantasy football or any other game for that matter. Holy crap.ETA: To mellow my tone a bit (just shocked at the rank puritanism on this board), what he did was not trying to give those players bad advice--it's could even be good advice. If you give advice you know to be had or even false, then of course I've got a problem with that. But if you strategically drop a gem here or there, I've got NO problem with that at all. None. You'd be dumb not to do it.

I'll offer another scenario...You need Team A to beat Team B in order for you to make the playoffs. It's 12:30 on Sunday, and you notice that both teams have forgotten to take injured players out of their starting lineups. You rush to the phone and tell Team A to switch his starters, but don't do the same for Team B. Hey, it's fair, because you only offered advice, right? NO WAY!!

And some other owner needs Team B to beat Team A for HIM to make the playoffs rather than me. This cuts both ways--he is just as free to get a hold of Team B as I am to get a hold of Team A.It's fair, good advice. Just because I don't share it with everybody isn't a crime. Any objection to that point really is just whining.

What if telling Team A and not Team B allows you and Team A to make the playoffs, but not telling either one will likely mean Teams A and B make the playoffs and you are the odd man out? I'm just eliminating other options here to see what you would do. For the purpose of this hypothetical situation, would you tell Team A and not tell Team B?

If they are in the middle of a playoff chase between at least three teams I think your bigger problem is why two teams haven't set their lineups by 1230 on Sunday.

It's a hypothetical scenario. I know, it's a strange case, but it could happen. Not to sound like a #####, but rather than answer like you did, a yes or no answer would be preferable. If there is no 4th team that this impacts, do you tell only Team A?

 

[pinequick]

Good holy christ, I CANNOT believe the number of freaking wussies on this board. Let me say this for all of you--there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING wrong with what this guy did in this instance.This is a game of strategy and information. He used both to what he speculates might be his advantage in this instance. Other owners are free to do the same. Anybody who thinks differently really and truly is a freaking baby that should not be playing fantasy football or any other game for that matter. Holy crap.ETA: To mellow my tone a bit (just shocked at the rank puritanism on this board), what he did was not trying to give those players bad advice--it's could even be good advice. If you give advice you know to be had or even false, then of course I've got a problem with that. But if you strategically drop a gem here or there, I've got NO problem with that at all. None. You'd be dumb not to do it.

I'll offer another scenario...You need Team A to beat Team B in order for you to make the playoffs. It's 12:30 on Sunday, and you notice that both teams have forgotten to take injured players out of their starting lineups. You rush to the phone and tell Team A to switch his starters, but don't do the same for Team B. Hey, it's fair, because you only offered advice, right? NO WAY!!

And some other owner needs Team B to beat Team A for HIM to make the playoffs rather than me. This cuts both ways--he is just as free to get a hold of Team B as I am to get a hold of Team A.It's fair, good advice. Just because I don't share it with everybody isn't a crime. Any objection to that point really is just whining.

What if telling Team A and not Team B allows you and Team A to make the playoffs, but not telling either one will likely mean Teams A and B make the playoffs and you are the odd man out? I'm just eliminating other options here to see what you would do. For the purpose of this hypothetical situation, would you tell Team A and not tell Team B?

My goal is to make the playoffs. If I give good, helpful advice to a team that helps them and then also helps me make the playoff, you are absolutely right that I would do so... and if you have any salt as an owner you SHOULD do so.Being unethical occurs when you go out of your way to give bad advice to a team--to hurt their chances at being competitive. But if somebody gives advice that helps a guy win a game, I have absolutely no problem with that. None. Anybody who does have a problem with that is either: a) #####ing about sour grapes, or b) a complete Pharisee who has some sort of austere moral code that makes playing with them a real bummer.

 

[thayman]

Good holy christ, I CANNOT believe the number of freaking wussies on this board. Let me say this for all of you--there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING wrong with what this guy did in this instance.This is a game of strategy and information. He used both to what he speculates might be his advantage in this instance. Other owners are free to do the same. Anybody who thinks differently really and truly is a freaking baby that should not be playing fantasy football or any other game for that matter. Holy crap.ETA: To mellow my tone a bit (just shocked at the rank puritanism on this board), what he did was not trying to give those players bad advice--it's could even be good advice. If you give advice you know to be had or even false, then of course I've got a problem with that. But if you strategically drop a gem here or there, I've got NO problem with that at all. None. You'd be dumb not to do it.

I'll offer another scenario...You need Team A to beat Team B in order for you to make the playoffs. It's 12:30 on Sunday, and you notice that both teams have forgotten to take injured players out of their starting lineups. You rush to the phone and tell Team A to switch his starters, but don't do the same for Team B. Hey, it's fair, because you only offered advice, right? NO WAY!!

And some other owner needs Team B to beat Team A for HIM to make the playoffs rather than me. This cuts both ways--he is just as free to get a hold of Team B as I am to get a hold of Team A.It's fair, good advice. Just because I don't share it with everybody isn't a crime. Any objection to that point really is just whining.

What if telling Team A and not Team B allows you and Team A to make the playoffs, but not telling either one will likely mean Teams A and B make the playoffs and you are the odd man out? I'm just eliminating other options here to see what you would do. For the purpose of this hypothetical situation, would you tell Team A and not tell Team B?

If they are in the middle of a playoff chase between at least three teams I think your bigger problem is why two teams haven't set their lineups by 1230 on Sunday.

It's a hypothetical scenario. I know, it's a strange case, but it could happen. Not to sound like a #####, but rather than answer like you did, a yes or no answer would be preferable. If there is no 4th team that this impacts, do you tell only Team A?

I was just teasing you a bit and poking holes at your hypothetical for me it would depend, in my main league there are a couple of owners that I'm better friends with than others. We have a tendancy to hang out at the bar and talk on the phone more, so yes if it was one of the guys that I'm better friends with and I noticed his lineup was missing something I would tell him.However I rarely look to much at the other teams lineups until after the games start. I give my thoughts on other players if a owner asks, but don't like to give too much advice because if it backfires on the owner some people can get a bit offended or think you are trying to sabotage them.

 

[Dirty Weasel]

no offense to the op, but this thread is ridiculous.

No offense taken. At least you didn't pour salt in the womb.

Bob,Don't listen to the folks who only come to this thread to post crap like that. Your case is one that happens all the time, and is a very good thread for discussion. I can bet that most FBG subscribers, if they play in any friendly-type/social leagues, are the league shark, and are the ones that get asked advice the most. It's hard not to offer it, isn't it? I just got turned down when I offered the Panthers D for the Redskins D. The other guy said he knows CAR is better, be he rejected it simply because he KNEW I had something up my sleeve. He just didn't know what it was. Then he offered me Donald Driver for Reggie Wayne!

 

[AnonymousBob]

no offense to the op, but this thread is ridiculous.

No offense taken. At least you didn't pour salt in the womb.

Bob,Don't listen to the folks who only come to this thread to post crap like that. Your case is one that happens all the time, and is a very good thread for discussion. I can bet that most FBG subscribers, if they play in any friendly-type/social leagues, are the league shark, and are the ones that get asked advice the most. It's hard not to offer it, isn't it? I just got turned down when I offered the Panthers D for the Redskins D. The other guy said he knows CAR is better, be he rejected it simply because he KNEW I had something up my sleeve. He just didn't know what it was. Then he offered me Donald Driver for Reggie Wayne!

E-baller didn't get to me, I figured he was just here for some laughs. It takes a lot to get under my skin which is part of the reason this whole thing is really bugging me. I know exactly what you're talking about. There's one owner who is very cautious (but still willing) when it comes to making trades with me. The commish is widely considered the SHARK of the league (he's won it 2 of the past 4 years) and the last two years it was very rare for him to make a trade. Nobody wanted to deal with him for fear he had some insider information. Last year he traded away ADP (with a sweet contract) before the guy really blew up plus I made a few trades with him that showed everybody he's mortal and makes mistakes like the rest of us. He's now able to trade with others but I know what you're talking about.That other owner is an idiot and you should start having fun with him. Start showing interest in some players you really don't want just to watch his reaction. If he's going to hoard players you want then start pretending to want his garbage - once he sees you're not seemingly always right he'll probably be more apt to trade.You've been one of the more level headed posters throughout this thread and I thank you for your responses.

 

[Dirty Weasel]

Good holy christ, I CANNOT believe the number of freaking wussies on this board. Let me say this for all of you--there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING wrong with what this guy did in this instance.This is a game of strategy and information. He used both to what he speculates might be his advantage in this instance. Other owners are free to do the same. Anybody who thinks differently really and truly is a freaking baby that should not be playing fantasy football or any other game for that matter. Holy crap.ETA: To mellow my tone a bit (just shocked at the rank puritanism on this board), what he did was not trying to give those players bad advice--it's could even be good advice. If you give advice you know to be had or even false, then of course I've got a problem with that. But if you strategically drop a gem here or there, I've got NO problem with that at all. None. You'd be dumb not to do it.

I'll offer another scenario...You need Team A to beat Team B in order for you to make the playoffs. It's 12:30 on Sunday, and you notice that both teams have forgotten to take injured players out of their starting lineups. You rush to the phone and tell Team A to switch his starters, but don't do the same for Team B. Hey, it's fair, because you only offered advice, right? NO WAY!!

And some other owner needs Team B to beat Team A for HIM to make the playoffs rather than me. This cuts both ways--he is just as free to get a hold of Team B as I am to get a hold of Team A.It's fair, good advice. Just because I don't share it with everybody isn't a crime. Any objection to that point really is just whining.

What if telling Team A and not Team B allows you and Team A to make the playoffs, but not telling either one will likely mean Teams A and B make the playoffs and you are the odd man out? I'm just eliminating other options here to see what you would do. For the purpose of this hypothetical situation, would you tell Team A and not tell Team B?

My goal is to make the playoffs. If I give good, helpful advice to a team that helps them and then also helps me make the playoff, you are absolutely right that I would do so... and if you have any salt as an owner you SHOULD do so.Being unethical occurs when you go out of your way to give bad advice to a team--to hurt their chances at being competitive. But if somebody gives advice that helps a guy win a game, I have absolutely no problem with that. None. Anybody who does have a problem with that is either: a) #####ing about sour grapes, or b) a complete Pharisee who has some sort of austere moral code that makes playing with them a real bummer.

I guess we don't have the same opinion then. As much as I would want to make the playoffs, if I told one owner, I would tell both owners. Like I said before, I used to be the guy that bent every single rule. I've changed my thinking this year.

 

[Dirty Weasel]

Just imagine, we are nearing 100 posts in this thread, in a very short time, and we are talking about Tatum freaking Bell!

 

[AnonymousBob]

Just imagine, we are nearing 100 posts in this thread, in a very short time, and we are talking about Tatum freaking Bell!

He's good at motivating people.

 

[pinequick]

Good holy christ, I CANNOT believe the number of freaking wussies on this board. Let me say this for all of you--there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING wrong with what this guy did in this instance.

This is a game of strategy and information. He used both to what he speculates might be his advantage in this instance. Other owners are free to do the same. Anybody who thinks differently really and truly is a freaking baby that should not be playing fantasy football or any other game for that matter. Holy crap.

ETA: To mellow my tone a bit (just shocked at the rank puritanism on this board), what he did was not trying to give those players bad advice--it's could even be good advice. If you give advice you know to be had or even false, then of course I've got a problem with that. But if you strategically drop a gem here or there, I've got NO problem with that at all. None. You'd be dumb not to do it.

I'll offer another scenario...You need Team A to beat Team B in order for you to make the playoffs. It's 12:30 on Sunday, and you notice that both teams have forgotten to take injured players out of their starting lineups. You rush to the phone and tell Team A to switch his starters, but don't do the same for Team B. Hey, it's fair, because you only offered advice, right? NO WAY!!

And some other owner needs Team B to beat Team A for HIM to make the playoffs rather than me. This cuts both ways--he is just as free to get a hold of Team B as I am to get a hold of Team A.It's fair, good advice. Just because I don't share it with everybody isn't a crime. Any objection to that point really is just whining.

What if telling Team A and not Team B allows you and Team A to make the playoffs, but not telling either one will likely mean Teams A and B make the playoffs and you are the odd man out? I'm just eliminating other options here to see what you would do. For the purpose of this hypothetical situation, would you tell Team A and not tell Team B?

My goal is to make the playoffs. If I give good, helpful advice to a team that helps them and then also helps me make the playoff, you are absolutely right that I would do so... and if you have any salt as an owner you SHOULD do so.Being unethical occurs when you go out of your way to give bad advice to a team--to hurt their chances at being competitive. But if somebody gives advice that helps a guy win a game, I have absolutely no problem with that. None. Anybody who does have a problem with that is either: a) #####ing about sour grapes, or b) a complete Pharisee who has some sort of austere moral code that makes playing with them a real bummer.

I guess we don't have the same opinion then. As much as I would want to make the playoffs, if I told one owner, I would tell both owners. Like I said before, I used to be the guy that bent every single rule. I've changed my thinking this year.

That's my point--he's not even flirting with bending a rule here. I truly and honestly do not get the "welllllll, I wouldn't do it... but I *guess* it might be okay" reaction in this thread. He's giving what he genuinely believes to be good advice. There is no vice in that. If he benefits, so be it.

 

[DropKick]

Yeah, that was kinda shady. Helping other owners is a form of collusion.To your buds in casual conversation: "Hey, did you hear about Bell?" OK.To your competition's future matchups: "Hey, did you hear about Bell? Better go pick him up before Team X does". Shady.Save yourself any future headaches and let other owners do their own homework.

Why is this collusion and how far would you take this argument? If you're at the draft and you tell one owner, "You know, Peyton Manning is probably going to blow up. I'd draft him if I were you" - is that collusion, too? What if you point out Thomas Jones' schedule is pretty cake the last 8 weeks of the season to another owner, is that collusion?Because I fail to see how sharing OPENLY available information selectively is unethical. There's absolutely nothing stopping every owner in the league from learning the news as quickly as the next guy. There's no barrier or secrecy here - would you call one guy beating the others to a hot FA pick-up because he had better info collusion? Do you always know where he gets that info? Why should it matter?Net, it isnt the best "good neighbor" policy, but this stops WAY short of collusion or unethical, IMHO.

You are WAY of the mark. Let teams do their own homework. Someone selectively feeding information (or dis-information) to influence someone is shaky ground. Its one thing to say "player-x" tore his ACL - that's public knowledge. It's different to pimp their replacement to a bottom feeder to help keep some player from your rival.Does this really need explanation?

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

That's my point--he's not even flirting with bending a rule here. I truly and honestly do not get the "welllllll, I wouldn't do it... but I *guess* it might be okay" reaction in this thread. He's giving what he genuinely believes to be good advice. There is no vice in that. If he benefits, so be it.

NoHe's lobbying the bad teams to go and block the middle tier teams from picking up a guy that might help them.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Yeah, that was kinda shady. Helping other owners is a form of collusion.To your buds in casual conversation: "Hey, did you hear about Bell?" OK.To your competition's future matchups: "Hey, did you hear about Bell? Better go pick him up before Team X does". Shady.Save yourself any future headaches and let other owners do their own homework.

Why is this collusion and how far would you take this argument? If you're at the draft and you tell one owner, "You know, Peyton Manning is probably going to blow up. I'd draft him if I were you" - is that collusion, too? What if you point out Thomas Jones' schedule is pretty cake the last 8 weeks of the season to another owner, is that collusion?Because I fail to see how sharing OPENLY available information selectively is unethical. There's absolutely nothing stopping every owner in the league from learning the news as quickly as the next guy. There's no barrier or secrecy here - would you call one guy beating the others to a hot FA pick-up because he had better info collusion? Do you always know where he gets that info? Why should it matter?Net, it isnt the best "good neighbor" policy, but this stops WAY short of collusion or unethical, IMHO.

You are WAY of the mark. Let teams do their own homework. Someone selectively feeding information (or dis-information) to influence someone is shaky ground. Its one thing to say "player-x" tore his ACL - that's public knowledge. It's different to pimp their replacement to a bottom feeder to help keep some player from your rival.Does this really need explanation?

Again, this is what I sent to the two owners:If you were interested in picking up another rb I point you to Tatum Bell. He was just signed and it's already being reported he's going to get a lot of carries for the Broncos. If it can help you that's great. If it can't that's okay as well - I let some other people know about him as well and since my roster is full I figure I'd help out some others. Best of luck! I reported nothing that wasn't public knowledge. And my "rival" the whiner is a guy who would never pick up Tatum. Nor does he need the gamble as his rb's are the best in the league. In fact I play one of the people I told in the last week of the regular season. So if Bell blows up it could end up screwing my playoff position. I have no problem being a jerk or robbing people but I'm completely confused why people think I did anything wrong here. I didn't keep badgering those two to pick up Tatum. I mentioned Tatum to some other owners in phone conversation. I've sent some rumors or information to owners before because it can help me (ie I told the Addai owner about the hamstring rumor - and I qualified it numerous times as saying it was a completely unfounded rumor but a rumor nonetheless). Now that owner is scrambling to find a replacement rb this weekend "just in case" and he's strongly considering benching Addai. I certainly had an influence on any immediate trades or pickups he makes but I feel as though that's all a part of the game. But sending an email to two people about Tatum? When it was already known for anybody who chose to look for it? If I had called these two people would it have been okay?

 

[Jack Burton]

I see no problem with this IF you don't mind someone yelling out during your draft.

"Hey, Frank, it's the 8th RD, you still don't have a QB and Jay Cutler has slipped, why don't you take him"

Did this actually happen at a draft recently? Sounds like a guy from a league I used to be in... real jokester.

to the OP...

I dont think its an example of collusion but it aint gonna win you any friends either.

 

[ratbast]

If I did this in my 2 big leagues, they would consider the "tip" but still make up their own mind. They know I know my stuff, but they do to and I've been wrong MANY times.

As I said before Bell, Davenport, SA, BLAHHH. The jokes on the guy who picked him up!

...and that is why it is allowable. You can only do it so many times and you are probably wrong.

Lets face it, if talking football with my buddies is restricted then why should we play? I call them all the time under the front of FF.

 

[shyne]

Kinda shady... not THAT big of a deal though.