US-China talks break into tense confrontation on camera (2 Viewers)

[FairWarning]

So how long do we have until China invades Taiwan and ignites WWIII?   Less than 5 years?

I’m surprised this hasn’t happened already.  

 

[Stoneworker]

Purple/grey hair is a value system?

Freedom of expression.

Duh.

 

[Doug B]

Edit:  Also, the link I posted in the first post of the thread contains a five minute video that features her prominently. No need to go looking for pictures. 

I wanted to see if it was an actual State Department staffer or someone in a supporting role. The dyed-hair lady did not have a name plate in front of her as the actual diplomats on both sides did. That leads to me to believe she was there in a fly-on-the-wall capacity (e.g. steno, translator) and not there to communicate matters of state to the Chinese delegation.

 

[The Z Machine]

So how long do we have until China invades Taiwan and ignites WWIII?   Less than 5 years?

Umm? Never?

 

[timschochet]

So how long do we have until China invades Taiwan and ignites WWIII?   Less than 5 years?

The reason that, since 1949, they haven’t invaded Taiwan is because it would ignite World War III. Why do you believe it’s different now? 

 

[timschochet]

Pursuing it is vastly important, in my opinion, to being able to get access to figure out how the hell COVID started, how it spread, and how we should all react given the circumstances possibly of happening again.  This is a perfect example of how the cover up is as bad or worse than the crime.  

Of course you’re right but there’s many ways to pursue something. You can do it through private channels or you can publicly criticize. I don’t think the Chinese are going to respond well to public criticism. They never have. They care a LOT about face. 

 

[BladeRunner]

Jack Posobiec ain't gonna cut it. Who else is reporting this? Preferably a news entity that existed before the popular Internet. No blogs, YouTube, or Twitter accounts.

Would you believe it if it was an anonymous source? 

 

[FairWarning]

Of course you’re right but there’s many ways to pursue something. You can do it through private channels or you can publicly criticize. I don’t think the Chinese are going to respond well to public criticism. They never have. They care a LOT about face. 

The rest of the world should have shut them off but that would never happen.  

 

[timschochet]

The rest of the world should have shut them off but that would never happen.  

What do you mean by “shut them off?” 

 

[FairWarning]

What do you mean by “shut them off?” 

make our own stuff, but that would never happen.  The world is too reliant on their cheap labor.

 

[timschochet]

make our own stuff, but that would never happen.  The world is too reliant on their cheap labor.

We’re reliant on far more than that. 

 

[FairWarning]

We’re reliant on far more than that. 

True.  

 

[timschochet]

Here’s how I honestly see it: 

1. Publicly criticizing China, much less punishing her in some way, serves us no good purpose. Which is really all I care about. If you can convince me that it will achieve some positive goal for the United States then I will change my mind. 
2. @GoBirds and others suggested that China will “run rings” around the Biden Administration. But I have no idea what this means. During the Trump years, due to his tariff policies, my state of California lost billions of agricultural dollars and some of my food prices went way up. I didn’t see that as a positive good and I’m hoping Biden reverses some of those policies. Does that mean letting China run rings around us? If so, count me in. 

 

[Stoneworker]

The reason that, since 1949, they haven’t invaded Taiwan is because it would ignite World War III. Why do you believe it’s different now? 

Two things are different.

a) China is ascendant and significantly better able to force to submit countries it views as being within its geographic sphere of influence

b) U.S. is increasingly overextended (militarily, financially, etc.) and therefore increasingly unable to protect its overseas interests

 

[BladeRunner]

When the other person is the bully, the best move is to just start punching them in the face.

When you are the bully, the best move is to just start punching them in the face.

War with China is inevitable. That means it's going to cost America no matter what. The cost in lives, wealth and suffering is going to be less if we start punching now.

This is like going to the dentist. That rotting tooth needs to go. You can wait and it will be more pain, more time, more money, more grief and bigger risks. Or you can simply pay in blood right now.

There is quite a bit of criticism of Darryl Gates and, by extension, LAPD SWAT, however he was one of the first in law enforcement to embrace the idea that when you are under fire, you charge your threat. You aggressively apply "violence of action" and no longer become a target, you become the instigator.

Tim, nothing personal, but you will disagree because you are soft. There is nothing wrong with being soft. People are wired differently. But this nation can endure and survive with you being soft because you are advocated for by hardened 3000 percent beef eaters. Old school shooters with heavy trigger time like me. It doesn't make me or anyone else better than you, it's just we have a fundamental understanding that sometimes there is no negotiation. Sometimes there is no chance for peace. You cannot negotiate with China because they aren't here to negotiate. They want to be dominant. Which would work except guys like me already have that job filled and we aren't going to be Wally Pipp'ed like a bunch of limp wristed latte sipping manlets. I have nothing against lattes, but you can't cave in someone's skull with a fireaxe with a latte in your hands.

You'll say why a fireaxe, you've got plenty of guns already. ( Stop looking at my arms) But the truth is fireaxes are more cinematic.

Soft people aren't cinematic. That's not a crime. It's just not effective for survival, no one actually listens to them and frankly chicks don't dig it.

That soft people can exist in America is proof of how much we all have so much to be grateful for here in the United States.

It's not your fight Tim. And that's OK. Just don't get in the way of the rest of us when it's time to make things cinematic.

This is the GREATEST POST EVER!  You and are very much alike Mr. Gekko. 

It's easy to be soft when you're surrounded by warriors.  Back in the good old days, only the women were soft.  Now we got soft men.  The luxury of a US Citizen.  They would be eaten alive in the rest of the world.  And I've got all of human history as evidence.

Is it too early for Post of the Decade?

 

[timschochet]

Two things are different.

a) China is ascendant and significantly better able to submit those it views as being within its geographic sphere of influence

b) U.S. is increasingly overextended (militarily, financially, etc.) and therefore increasingly unable to protect its overseas interests

The threat has always been, from the beginning, that it could turn into a nuclear war. That threat hasn’t changed. 
Even in terms of us being overextended: if China moves troops towards their border closest to Taiwan, we will send our 6th fleet into the region. That’s always been the reaction and it won’t change. 

 

[Stoneworker]

The threat has always been, from the beginning, that it could turn into a nuclear war. That threat hasn’t changed. 
Even in terms of us being overextended: if China moves troops towards their border closest to Taiwan, we will send our 6th fleet into the region. That’s always been the reaction and it won’t change. 

What won't change is the Chinese belief that Taiwan is a natural part of China. Just like Hong Kong. And that belief has been existence far longer than America, the post-WWII new order and our 6th fleet.

So agree to disagree. Taiwan is going back within the next decade. Best we extract concessions early as possible in letting it go...before a futile attempt to keep defending it leads us into a hot war we will lose.

 

[BladeRunner]

What won't change is the Chinese belief that Taiwan is a natural part of China. Just like Hong Kong. And that belief has been existence far longer than America, the post-WWII new order and our 6th fleet.

So agree to disagree. Taiwan is going back within the next decade. Best we extract concessions early as possible in letting it go...before a futile attempt to keep defending it leads us into a hot war we will lose.

And, tbh, it's not a war we should be fighting, IMO.  Way too close to the Chinese mainland.  It's about the same distance Cuba is to the US.  No way China would let the US get that close just like we would never allow China to get that close - like we did with Russia too.

 

[Stoneworker]

And, tbh, it's not a war we should be fighting, IMO.  Way too close to the Chinese mainland.  It's about the same distance Cuba is to the US.  No way China would let the US get that close.

Agree. Still too early for them to make an offensive move to reclaim it...but that time is coming. They will patiently wait while our domestic issues continue to weaken us.

 

[dkp993]

Of course you’re right but there’s many ways to pursue something. You can do it through private channels or you can publicly criticize. I don’t think the Chinese are going to respond well to public criticism. They never have. They care a LOT about face. 

Sure, agree.  But we’re a year into this at this point and basically been stonewalled.  The private channels have certainly been used already. It’s time to start applying other forms of pressure, up to and likely including public pressure.  500k+ and rising lives are owed at least that.  

 

[dkp993]

This is the GREATEST POST EVER!  You and are very much alike Mr. Gekko. 

It's easy to be soft when you're surrounded by warriors.  Back in the good old days, only the women were soft.  Now we got soft men.  The luxury of a US Citizen.  They would be eaten alive in the rest of the world.  And I've got all of human history as evidence.

Is it too early for Post of the Decade?

As far as inducing a laugh I’d agree it’s a great post. 

 

[GoBirds]

Not one person has said this is a sexist thing.  My opinion would be unchanged if it was a man with purple hair. 

So lame to throw out sexism, being unprofessional in how you present yourself has nothing to do with ones sex. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

So lame to throw out sexism, being unprofessional in how you present yourself has nothing to do with ones sex. 

Yeah, that was the point that was trying to be made.  

 

[Doug B]

Jack Posobiec ain't gonna cut it. Who else is reporting this? Preferably a news entity that existed before the popular Internet. No blogs, YouTube, or Twitter accounts.

Would you believe it if it was an anonymous source? 

The source WAS anonymous— Posobiec didn’t hear it firsthand.

 

[FBG Moderator]

I believe he was referring to Posobiec as the troll.  

If you disagree with a post make your case as to why you disagree. Drop the troll insults. 

 

[sho nuff]

If you disagree with a post make your case as to why you disagree. Drop the troll insults. 

Sure...I agree with this...some have gone to it too often when regarding posters.  If we are now not to use the troll/trolling description for anyone at all....that seems like a change.  Not an issue, just a change.

 

[The Z Machine]

Taiwan is going back within the next decade.

Have you been there? Do you know Taiwanese people?

I have and do.  I don't see any way they become a province of the PRC in the next decade.  They've forged their own path and I think even if they had some desire to join the PRC under some HK-like deal, they see how well "two systems, one country" has worked out for the Hong Kongers.

 

[FairWarning]

I would like the two systems, one country approach here.  The city folk can employ $15/hour, mandatory two masks, and free everything.  The rest of the country goes back to normal.  

 

[FBG Moderator]

Sure...I agree with this...some have gone to it too often when regarding posters.  If we are now not to use the troll/trolling description for anyone at all....that seems like a change.  Not an issue, just a change.

Just drop the useless back and forth in general. If you disagree, state why and make a case. Stop the cheap shots. That's not a change. That's always been how we do it. Please drop it now. 

 

[Doug B]

Appearances matter.  US looks like clowns.  Apparently, Biden was embarrassed as well

How do we know this?

No other source has corroborated Posobiec about Biden "yelling at Blinken" over the "purple hair" staffer. Posobiec's tweet has been the basis of other site's reporting, but his tweet has no independent corroboration. Something may be forthcoming, but IMHO skeptical observers are right to regard Posobiec's tweet with doubt.

 

[Stoneworker]

Have you been there? Do you know Taiwanese people?

I have and do.  I don't see any way they become a province of the PRC in the next decade.  They've forged their own path and I think even if they had some desire to join the PRC under some HK-like deal, they see how well "two systems, one country" has worked out for the Hong Kongers.

Thanks for sharing your credentials. I believe the commander of the U.S. Indo-Pacific Command has also traveled to Taiwan. Clearly he disagrees with you and has testified accordingly.

"Taiwan is clearly one of their ambitions. ... And I think the threat is manifest during this decade, in fact, in the next six years," Adm. Philip Davidson, commander of the U.S. Indo-Pacific Command, told a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing Tuesday.

"China's position on the Taiwan question is consistent and clear. There is but one China in the world, and Taiwan is an inalienable part of China's territory," Zhao Lijian told reporters in Beijing.

In recent months, China has increased its military activity near the island

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-could-invade-taiwan-next-6-years-assume-global-leadership-n1260386

 

[The Z Machine]

Thanks for sharing your credentials. I believe the commander of the U.S. Indo-Pacific Command has also traveled to Taiwan. Clearly he disagrees with you and has testified accordingly.

"Taiwan is clearly one of their ambitions. ... And I think the threat is manifest during this decade, in fact, in the next six years," Adm. Philip Davidson, commander of the U.S. Indo-Pacific Command, told a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing Tuesday.

"China's position on the Taiwan question is consistent and clear. There is but one China in the world, and Taiwan is an inalienable part of China's territory," Zhao Lijian told reporters in Beijing.

In recent months, China has increased its military activity near the island

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-could-invade-taiwan-next-6-years-assume-global-leadership-n1260386

No doubt the threat is there.  Will China act on that threat in the next decade?  I highly doubt that.  What would they gain from such an act?  Furthering their territorial ambitions?  Sure, but at what cost?  The hit to their international standing would be massive.  China is playing the long game.  They know their economic growth has already turned into economic and hence political might.   They don't need to invade Taiwan.  They will seek to reverse the historical trend of Taiwanese businesses investing in China (starting plants, etc.) and instead have mainland China own significant parts of the Taiwanese economy.   In doing so, Taiwan will come to them and seek greater engagement, and possibly reunification if it makes sense for their people.  They will then have Taiwan without firing a shot --> long game.

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-03-21/niall-ferguson-a-taiwan-crisis-may-end-the-american-empire?sref=myRR7Fyj

Well this turn of events would be sub-optimal

 

[The Z Machine]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-03-21/niall-ferguson-a-taiwan-crisis-may-end-the-american-empire?sref=myRR7Fyj

Well this turn of events would be sub-optimal

The risk to China of a naval engagement with the US over Taiwan is huge.  Why would they risk it?  What's the upside for them? Having 20+ million new citizens that are suuuuper unhappy that their democracy has been taken away by force?

 

[rascal]

So how long do we have until China invades Taiwan and ignites WWIII?   Less than 5 years?

Franky they are on borrowed time.

If china were to attack we couldn't do anything about it.  Their missile shield will keep air force/navy away long enough for them to take it over.

 

[rascal]

I couldn't stand trump but was hopeful that he would do something about the china problem as it's primarily business.  He didn't. 

I don't care if Biden gets anything else right, but if he can lay out and implement a long term plan to deal with china he will instantly get my vote.

They are stealing our intellectual property, stealing our companies, and stealing our wealth.  Nobody has had the balls or the vision to do anything about it.  Something needs to be done, and frankly it's probably too late.

 

[dkp993]

I couldn't stand trump but was hopeful that he would do something about the china problem as it's primarily business.  He didn't. 

I don't care if Biden gets anything else right, but if he can lay out and implement a long term plan to deal with china he will instantly get my vote.

They are stealing our intellectual property, stealing our companies, and stealing our wealth.  Nobody has had the balls or the vision to do anything about it.  Something needs to be done, and frankly it's probably too late.

They have such an advantage on us in continuity and an ability to plan and think 25 or 30 years out.  We can’t event think past the next election cycle meanwhile our leaders keep writing EO’s that erase or change everything from the previous admin.  So we ping pong around like fools. Honestly their advantage is one I don’t know how we overcome.  

 

[rascal]

They have such an advantage on us in continuity and an ability to plan and think 25 or 30 years out.  We can’t event think past the next election cycle meanwhile our leaders keep writing EO’s that erase or change everything from the previous admin.  So we ping pong around like fools. Honestly their advantage is one I don’t know how we overcome.  

It would require america to actually unite and work together.  Something we haven't done since ww2.  Add in issues with infrastructure and I'm not optimistic.