US Healthcare Business Stinks Thread II (1 Viewer)

[Sparky Polastri]

All those categorically bashing the U.S. "for-profit" healthcare system may want to take a look at how the U.K. is doing with its celebrated government-run system, the NHS. Spoiler alert: It's in crisis


- A recent study revealed that 8 million people in the United Kingdom are waiting for their care, with 40 percent waiting for more than 18 weeks. An incredible 14,000 people died just last year while waiting for care in England’s emergency rooms. -The Hill 9/19/24

- In 2010, 94% of people attending [emergency rooms] were seen within 4 hours; by May 2024 that figure had dropped to just over 60% More than 100,000 infants waited more than 6 hours last year and nearly 10% of all patients are now waiting for 12 hours or more. - Summary of Lord Darby's independent findings to House of Lords - 11/15/24

- As of 2024, the NHS is experiencing severe staff shortages, with nursing vacancies being particularly acute. According to NHS figures, there are about 47,000 nursing vacancies in NHS England alone, accounting for over 10% of the total nursing workforce. - Dynamic Health Staff 4/30/24

- Ambulance workers and nurses held their first strikes in 30 years over pay and conditions. New England Journal of Medicine 7/8/23

- The UK has appreciably higher cancer mortality rates than other countries. - Lord Darby report


Sources
* The National Health Service is in serious trouble - Lord Darby Report
* At Breaking Point or Already Broken? The National Health Service in the United Kingdom - NEJM
* The UK’s Looming Nurse Shortage Crisis in 2024 - Dynamic Health Staff
* England’s strained health care system should ring alarms in the US - The Hill

This is what you can expect with nationalized health care in countries with relatively large populations - rationed care where a considerable percentage will die while waiting.

Health care as a matter of pure practice is better in the U.S.A., but it's too damned expensive.

Not many systems (any?) that get less bang for their buck than ours and we can't even really point to "better outcomes" from treatment anymore either.

 

[matttyl]

My oldest son went to the ER for stomach pains several weeks back and they found a cyst on his spleen after a CT scan. 4 days and two procedures in the hospital later he is cleared and we go home. Bill was 66k before adjustments. Out of pocket is roughly 1,500 for a higher end insurance plan. It's just crazy how expensive it all is.

Glad your kid is doing better, but man that’s cheap! 4 days in the hospital with two procedures and only 66k? As stated above, my 4 hours in the ER for kidney stones was over $9k. No procedures - but there was a CT scan

 

[ericttspikes]

I have a very expensive policy with a very high deductible. What I don't really understand is I've had both an MRI and CT scan in past year. Both procedures were ordered through an in network hospital system and both tests were quoted to be over $3k billed through my insurance. Since I have a high deductible I would have had to pay that out of pocket. So I called around and found a self pay place; nice and clean, newer machines, great staff. Anyway, this place charges cash pay $350 for the same procedures, 1/10 what the hospital is billing insurance for. It's crazy.

 

[Max Power]

My oldest son went to the ER for stomach pains several weeks back and they found a cyst on his spleen after a CT scan. 4 days and two procedures in the hospital later he is cleared and we go home. Bill was 66k before adjustments. Out of pocket is roughly 1,500 for a higher end insurance plan. It's just crazy how expensive it all is.

Glad your kid is doing better, but man that’s cheap! 4 days in the hospital with two pro edited and only 66k? As stated above, my 4 hours in the ER for kidney stones was over $9k. No procedures - but there was a CT scan

Maybe I'm outdated. We went to the ER late on a Saturday and had to overnight until the day staff got in Sunday. They drained the cyst Sunday and scheduled him for surgery to remove the cyst Monday evening. Everything went well, (kept 100% of the spleen) but they kept him until Wednesday mid-day to monitor pain. They also wanted him to have a BM before leaving.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I have a very expensive policy with a very high deductible. What I don't really understand is I've had both an MRI and CT scan in past year. Both procedures were ordered through an in network hospital system and both tests were quoted to be over $3k billed through my insurance. Since I have a high deductible I would have had to pay that out of pocket. So I called around and found a self pay place; nice and clean, newer machines, great staff. Anyway, this place charges cash pay $350 for the same procedures, 1/10 what the hospital is billing insurance for. It's crazy.

If you don’t have insurance the hospital’s cash price wil be much cheaper than what they charge the insurance company. It’s a horrible racket.

 

[matttyl]

My oldest son went to the ER for stomach pains several weeks back and they found a cyst on his spleen after a CT scan. 4 days and two procedures in the hospital later he is cleared and we go home. Bill was 66k before adjustments. Out of pocket is roughly 1,500 for a higher end insurance plan. It's just crazy how expensive it all is.

Glad your son is on the mend.

To play devil’s advocate, how much do you think 4 days in the hospital, testing and two procedures should cost? With insurance, of course.

I figured it would be a couple hundred bucks, but I really had no idea.

Looking at my LES, I'm paying $303.61 every two weeks and my employer pays $714.23 for the same period. Almost 26.5k a year for health insurance.

And that 26.5k just knocked 66k down to 1,500. It just offset over two years of premiums from one circumstance.

Note - the insurance costing 26.5k a year isn’t the “problem” - 66k for a few days in the hospital is.

 

[matttyl]

I have a very expensive policy with a very high deductible. What I don't really understand is I've had both an MRI and CT scan in past year. Both procedures were ordered through an in network hospital system and both tests were quoted to be over $3k billed through my insurance. Since I have a high deductible I would have had to pay that out of pocket. So I called around and found a self pay place; nice and clean, newer machines, great staff. Anyway, this place charges cash pay $350 for the same procedures, 1/10 what the hospital is billing insurance for. It's crazy.

More people should do this, but they don’t know how or even that they can. Good on you.

 

[BrutalPenguin]

To update my previous post claiming my heart surgery and hospital stay was approximately $90k, I hadn't received all the bills yet. Why does it take 4 months to get them all? Anyway, it was more like $236k.

 

[matttyl]

To update my previous post claiming my heart surgery and hospital stay was approximately $90k, I hadn't received all the bills yet. Why does it take 4 months to get them all? Anyway, it was more like $236k.

It will take that long when bills are that big. Insurance and the providers are still fighting it out.

 

[PlayaHata]

I have a very expensive policy with a very high deductible. What I don't really understand is I've had both an MRI and CT scan in past year. Both procedures were ordered through an in network hospital system and both tests were quoted to be over $3k billed through my insurance. Since I have a high deductible I would have had to pay that out of pocket. So I called around and found a self pay place; nice and clean, newer machines, great staff. Anyway, this place charges cash pay $350 for the same procedures, 1/10 what the hospital is billing insurance for. It's crazy.

More people should do this, but they don’t know how or even that they can. Good on you.

This pisses me off to no end. I had the exact same experience with blood work a few years ago when I started to need annual blood tests for cholesterol. My physician referred me to the hospital he's affiliated with for a full blood panel and my cost after insurance ended up being around $350. The past 3 years or so I've gone to LabCorp instead and my cost after insurance is about $30 for the exact same full blood panel. Again, 1/10 of the cost vs. the hospital.

 

[Joe Schmo]

I have a very expensive policy with a very high deductible. What I don't really understand is I've had both an MRI and CT scan in past year. Both procedures were ordered through an in network hospital system and both tests were quoted to be over $3k billed through my insurance. Since I have a high deductible I would have had to pay that out of pocket. So I called around and found a self pay place; nice and clean, newer machines, great staff. Anyway, this place charges cash pay $350 for the same procedures, 1/10 what the hospital is billing insurance for. It's crazy.

More people should do this, but they don’t know how or even that they can. Good on you.

This pisses me off to no end. I had the exact same experience with blood work a few years ago when I started to need annual blood tests for cholesterol. My physician referred me to the hospital he's affiliated with for a full blood panel and my cost after insurance ended up being around $350. The past 3 years or so I've gone to LabCorp instead and my cost after insurance is about $30 for the exact same full blood panel. Again, 1/10 of the cost vs. the hospital.

Yes, in my plan we have to go to a lab for blood work even if our doctor offers the service at their office which mine does. Instead of a physical with bloodwork thrown in I have to go to another appointment at another facility in another part of town or I get charged more for the same service.

 

[matttyl]

I have a very expensive policy with a very high deductible. What I don't really understand is I've had both an MRI and CT scan in past year. Both procedures were ordered through an in network hospital system and both tests were quoted to be over $3k billed through my insurance. Since I have a high deductible I would have had to pay that out of pocket. So I called around and found a self pay place; nice and clean, newer machines, great staff. Anyway, this place charges cash pay $350 for the same procedures, 1/10 what the hospital is billing insurance for. It's crazy.

More people should do this, but they don’t know how or even that they can. Good on you.

This pisses me off to no end. I had the exact same experience with blood work a few years ago when I started to need annual blood tests for cholesterol. My physician referred me to the hospital he's affiliated with for a full blood panel and my cost after insurance ended up being around $350. The past 3 years or so I've gone to LabCorp instead and my cost after insurance is about $30 for the exact same full blood panel. Again, 1/10 of the cost vs. the hospital.

Yup, I see it all the time. Now ask the hospital to justify their 10x price for the exact same thing. That’s why insurance costs what it does.

 

[FarFromHome]

It's one of the many things wrong with our countries healthcare:

I have an issue and make an apt

They can't help yet and I need another apt to run labs.

They can't explain the lab results so u need another apt.

Final apt to read labs

Everyone gets a piece of this journey.

 

[bcat01]

I have a very expensive policy with a very high deductible. What I don't really understand is I've had both an MRI and CT scan in past year. Both procedures were ordered through an in network hospital system and both tests were quoted to be over $3k billed through my insurance. Since I have a high deductible I would have had to pay that out of pocket. So I called around and found a self pay place; nice and clean, newer machines, great staff. Anyway, this place charges cash pay $350 for the same procedures, 1/10 what the hospital is billing insurance for. It's crazy.

More people should do this, but they don’t know how or even that they can. Good on you.

This pisses me off to no end. I had the exact same experience with blood work a few years ago when I started to need annual blood tests for cholesterol. My physician referred me to the hospital he's affiliated with for a full blood panel and my cost after insurance ended up being around $350. The past 3 years or so I've gone to LabCorp instead and my cost after insurance is about $30 for the exact same full blood panel. Again, 1/10 of the cost vs. the hospital.

Mine orders blood work with my annual wellness appointment and everything is covered 100%.

 

[MTskibum]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

 

[Orange&Blue]

Went on vacation in Paris and had a medical emergency. It took 30 minutes for the ambulance to show up. finally went to a hospital and after 2 hours saw a doctor. doctor did the absolute least possible, gave a rx, and sent us on our way.

made it back stateside and after a full medical checkup, doctor found the cause of issue. Yes, I'm being vague because it involves my daughter.

but at least I didn't have to pay for that medical service while there.

 

[Orange&Blue]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

 

[Max Power]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

 

[FarFromHome]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

We are the fattest nation in the world with the most expensive health-care system in the world. Tough combo unless you make money in the health care industry.

 

[Max Power]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

We are the fattest nation in the world with the most expensive health-care system in the world. Tough combo unless you make money in the health care industry.

Unpopular opinion, but I think should be less accepting of unhealthy lifestyles. It would be nice to see some form of health reward from companies or insurance. I know mine offers small things here and there, but it's hardly worth the time and energy to apply and track it for what the reward is.

 

[FarFromHome]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

We are the fattest nation in the world with the most expensive health-care system in the world. Tough combo unless you make money in the health care industry.

Unpopular opinion, but I think should be less accepting of unhealthy lifestyles. It would be nice to see some form of health reward from companies or insurance. I know mine offers small things here and there, but it's hardly worth the time and energy to apply and track it for what the reward is.

Same. Moving to the South my employers health coverage does the same. Never seen it before. Things like giving u money for certain health requirements. Money if u donate blood. Money if you don't smoke. Etc. The idea is solid. Imagine if health coverage cost was based on your weight. The more you weigh the more it costs. Ha ha.

 

[Orange&Blue]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

We are the fattest nation in the world with the most expensive health-care system in the world. Tough combo unless you make money in the health care industry.

Unpopular opinion, but I think should be less accepting of unhealthy lifestyles. It would be nice to see some form of health reward from companies or insurance. I know mine offers small things here and there, but it's hardly worth the time and energy to apply and track it for what the reward is.

imo, if your bmi is obese you should pay more for insurance

 

[Max Power]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

We are the fattest nation in the world with the most expensive health-care system in the world. Tough combo unless you make money in the health care industry.

Unpopular opinion, but I think should be less accepting of unhealthy lifestyles. It would be nice to see some form of health reward from companies or insurance. I know mine offers small things here and there, but it's hardly worth the time and energy to apply and track it for what the reward is.

imo, if your bmi is obese you should pay more for insurance

I like the idea, but hate using BMI as the measurement. Body fat % or something else. Anyone with decent muscle mass is going to be overweight to obese using BMI.

 

[MTskibum]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

What is the obesity rate in the poor european countries and what is the obesity rate in top 20% income of america. I think the poor europeans may be more overweight than top 20% income earners in US.

This means that the healthcare system may be even more lopsided.

Poland

data.worldobesity.org

Edit: Also i bet poor european countries smoke alot more, really making our health care system look bad.

 

[Orange&Blue]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

What is the obesity rate in the poor european countries and what is the obesity rate in top 20% income of america. I think the poor europeans may be more overweight than top 20% income earners in US.

This means that the healthcare system may be even more lopsided.

Poland

data.worldobesity.org

Edit: Also i bet poor european countries smoke alot more, really making our health care system look bad.

it seemed like everyone smoked in france

 

[HellToupee]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

We are the fattest nation in the world with the most expensive health-care system in the world. Tough combo unless you make money in the health care industry.

Unpopular opinion, but I think should be less accepting of unhealthy lifestyles. It would be nice to see some form of health reward from companies or insurance. I know mine offers small things here and there, but it's hardly worth the time and energy to apply and track it for what the reward is.

imo, if your bmi is obese you should pay more for insurance

So the food game is rigged over generations and you want to punish the poor lab rat .

 

[FarFromHome]

So the food game is rigged over generations and you want to punish the poor lab rat .

Good point but kinda. Ha ha. I came home from work last night and I noticed my wife picked a big bag of muffin bites. They looked good. My heart said I should eat a few bags. My mind looked at the ingredients beforehand. 30 grams a sugar for each bag. I could easily have eaten 3 bags. I didnt because my self control is too strong. Ha ha. Imo

 

[Max Power]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

We are the fattest nation in the world with the most expensive health-care system in the world. Tough combo unless you make money in the health care industry.

Unpopular opinion, but I think should be less accepting of unhealthy lifestyles. It would be nice to see some form of health reward from companies or insurance. I know mine offers small things here and there, but it's hardly worth the time and energy to apply and track it for what the reward is.

imo, if your bmi is obese you should pay more for insurance

So the food game is rigged over generations and you want to punish the poor lab rat .

I'm all for fixing the food game as well. There seems to be a movement to do that currently that faces some push back. We can't even agree on what's healthy anymore. The regulating industries have lost their way and they aren't looking out for everyone's best health interests, but we still hold them as a food authority figure.

 

[Orange&Blue]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

We are the fattest nation in the world with the most expensive health-care system in the world. Tough combo unless you make money in the health care industry.

Unpopular opinion, but I think should be less accepting of unhealthy lifestyles. It would be nice to see some form of health reward from companies or insurance. I know mine offers small things here and there, but it's hardly worth the time and energy to apply and track it for what the reward is.

imo, if your bmi is obese you should pay more for insurance

So the food game is rigged over generations and you want to punish the poor lab rat .

you don't want to hear my solution as it will be political.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Anyone with decent muscle mass is going to be overweight to obese using BMI.

Absolutely incorrect. If anything, BMI underestimates obesity, when compared to body composition testing. On a population level, there are far more “skinny fat” individuals than musclebound athletes.

“Decent” muscle mass is in the eye of the beholder, of course. Regardless, our perception of healthy weight is skewed high, and most guys protesting their BMIs actually have excess fat. Moreover, there’s a wealth of data linking high BMI to adverse health outcomes.

That’s not to say BMI is perfect. But coupled with things like waist:hip ratio, it’s the quickest, most cost effective way to screen for overweight and obesity.

 

[matttyl]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

We are the fattest nation in the world with the most expensive health-care system in the world. Tough combo unless you make money in the health care industry.

Unpopular opinion, but I think should be less accepting of unhealthy lifestyles. It would be nice to see some form of health reward from companies or insurance. I know mine offers small things here and there, but it's hardly worth the time and energy to apply and track it for what the reward is.

Not to get political, but that’s how it was before the ACA. If you were healthy, you got a lower rate than someone who wasn’t as healthy. The carries got you medically underwrite you. They can no longer do that - pre existing conditions play no part in your rate.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

We are the fattest nation in the world with the most expensive health-care system in the world. Tough combo unless you make money in the health care industry.

Unpopular opinion, but I think should be less accepting of unhealthy lifestyles. It would be nice to see some form of health reward from companies or insurance. I know mine offers small things here and there, but it's hardly worth the time and energy to apply and track it for what the reward is.

imo, if your bmi is obese you should pay more for insurance

So the food game is rigged over generations and you want to punish the poor lab rat .

I'm all for fixing the food game as well. There seems to be a movement to do that currently that faces some push back. We can't even agree on what's healthy anymore. The regulating industries have lost their way and they aren't looking out for everyone's best health interests, but we still hold them as a food authority figure.

Yes and no. Does anyone reject the idea that ultraprocessed foods are bad, while fresh fruits and veggies are good?

Forget about all the “macro” nonsense. Nutrition policy which eliminates the former, while promoting the latter would go a long way towards improving population health.

 

[Max Power]

Anyone with decent muscle mass is going to be overweight to obese using BMI.

Absolutely incorrect. If anything, BMI underestimates obesity, when compared to body composition testing. On a population level, there are far more “skinny fat” individuals than musclebound athletes.

“Decent” muscle mass is in the eye of the beholder, of course. Regardless, our perception of healthy weight is skewed high, and most guys protesting their BMIs actually have excess fat. Moreover, there’s a wealth of data linking high BMI to adverse health outcomes.

That’s not to say BMI is perfect. But coupled with things like waist:hip ratio, it’s the quickest, most cost effective way to screen for overweight and obesity.

Population wise you're probably right. I work in a community that's on the other end of that spectrum, so in my small sample size I see BMI as way over simplified painting a poor picture of health when that's not the case. I sometimes forget the population at large is in much worse condition that I realize.

Just to bash BMI a bit more... Ashton Jeanty is 5'8" 211. That is obese on BMI. Tet McMillan 6'4" 220 is "overweight". I think there are better indicators of health out there.

Also agree with you that it's quick and easy to get a number which is why it's commonly used. I'd still object to it being used as the primary tool to assess health care rates.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Anyone with decent muscle mass is going to be overweight to obese using BMI.

Absolutely incorrect. If anything, BMI underestimates obesity, when compared to body composition testing. On a population level, there are far more “skinny fat” individuals than musclebound athletes.

“Decent” muscle mass is in the eye of the beholder, of course. Regardless, our perception of healthy weight is skewed high, and most guys protesting their BMIs actually have excess fat. Moreover, there’s a wealth of data linking high BMI to adverse health outcomes.

That’s not to say BMI is perfect. But coupled with things like waist:hip ratio, it’s the quickest, most cost effective way to screen for overweight and obesity.

Population wise you're probably right. I work in a community that's on the other end of that spectrum, so in my small sample size I see BMI as way over simplified painting a poor picture of health when that's not the case. I sometimes forget the population at large is in much worse condition that I realize.

Just to bash BMI a bit more... Ashton Jeanty is 5'8" 211. That is obese on BMI. Tet McMillan 6'4" 220 is "overweight". I think there are better indicators of health out there.

Also agree with you that it's quick and easy to get a number which is why it's commonly used. I'd still object to it being used as the primary tool to assess health care rates.

No one denies BMI overestimates adiposity in elite athletes.

But the vast majority of Americans who are overweight/obese by BMI, ummm, aren't. And by my estimation, this includes most people in the gym.

 

[Max Power]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

We are the fattest nation in the world with the most expensive health-care system in the world. Tough combo unless you make money in the health care industry.

Unpopular opinion, but I think should be less accepting of unhealthy lifestyles. It would be nice to see some form of health reward from companies or insurance. I know mine offers small things here and there, but it's hardly worth the time and energy to apply and track it for what the reward is.

imo, if your bmi is obese you should pay more for insurance

So the food game is rigged over generations and you want to punish the poor lab rat .

I'm all for fixing the food game as well. There seems to be a movement to do that currently that faces some push back. We can't even agree on what's healthy anymore. The regulating industries have lost their way and they aren't looking out for everyone's best health interests, but we still hold them as a food authority figure.

Yes and no. Does anyone reject the idea that ultraprocessed foods are bad, while fresh fruits and veggies are good?

Forget about all the “macro” nonsense. Nutrition policy which eliminates the former, while promoting the latter would go a long way towards improving population health.

No, but I think that's too simplistic of a view. Our population isn't going to just start eating fruits and veggies for the bulk of their nutrition. There is a wide range of stuff in the middle. I can google seed oils and saturated fat and the first page of results are headlines from reputable sources saying entirely opposite things. It's confusing at best to know what's harmful and what isn't.

I think half the overweight population doesn't care to eat right and the other half struggle to understand our food.

 

[Orange&Blue]

Anyone with decent muscle mass is going to be overweight to obese using BMI.

Absolutely incorrect. If anything, BMI underestimates obesity, when compared to body composition testing. On a population level, there are far more “skinny fat” individuals than musclebound athletes.

“Decent” muscle mass is in the eye of the beholder, of course. Regardless, our perception of healthy weight is skewed high, and most guys protesting their BMIs actually have excess fat. Moreover, there’s a wealth of data linking high BMI to adverse health outcomes.

That’s not to say BMI is perfect. But coupled with things like waist:hip ratio, it’s the quickest, most cost effective way to screen for overweight and obesity.

Population wise you're probably right. I work in a community that's on the other end of that spectrum, so in my small sample size I see BMI as way over simplified painting a poor picture of health when that's not the case. I sometimes forget the population at large is in much worse condition that I realize.

Just to bash BMI a bit more... Ashton Jeanty is 5'8" 211. That is obese on BMI. Tet McMillan 6'4" 220 is "overweight". I think there are better indicators of health out there.

Also agree with you that it's quick and easy to get a number which is why it's commonly used. I'd still object to it being used as the primary tool to assess health care rates.

No one denies BMI overestimates adiposity in elite athletes.

But the vast majority of Americans who are overweight/obese by BMI, ummm, aren't. And by my estimation, this includes most people in the gym.

BS. I'm an elite athlete everytime i dream.

 

[Max Power]

Anyone with decent muscle mass is going to be overweight to obese using BMI.

Absolutely incorrect. If anything, BMI underestimates obesity, when compared to body composition testing. On a population level, there are far more “skinny fat” individuals than musclebound athletes.

“Decent” muscle mass is in the eye of the beholder, of course. Regardless, our perception of healthy weight is skewed high, and most guys protesting their BMIs actually have excess fat. Moreover, there’s a wealth of data linking high BMI to adverse health outcomes.

That’s not to say BMI is perfect. But coupled with things like waist:hip ratio, it’s the quickest, most cost effective way to screen for overweight and obesity.

Population wise you're probably right. I work in a community that's on the other end of that spectrum, so in my small sample size I see BMI as way over simplified painting a poor picture of health when that's not the case. I sometimes forget the population at large is in much worse condition that I realize.

Just to bash BMI a bit more... Ashton Jeanty is 5'8" 211. That is obese on BMI. Tet McMillan 6'4" 220 is "overweight". I think there are better indicators of health out there.

Also agree with you that it's quick and easy to get a number which is why it's commonly used. I'd still object to it being used as the primary tool to assess health care rates.

No one denies BMI overestimates adiposity in elite athletes.

But the vast majority of Americans who are overweight/obese by BMI, ummm, aren't. And by my estimation, this includes most people in the gym.

I'll just say the military community isn't the typical American, so we may just view BMI differently.

 

[FarFromHome]

I think half the overweight population doesn't care to eat right and the other half struggle to understand our food.

This. People do what people do. I see folks at work DAILY have fast food breakfast. Like everyday. They know it's bad. It's not a trick. They choose to consume it. People value how it makes them feel short term over what it's doing to them long term. Its the American way. Then we blame someone else. Ha ha

 

[Terminalxylem]

Wealthy Americans have death rates on par with poor Europeans

Some wealthy Europeans have death rates 35 percent lower than the richest Americans.

arstechnica.com

Good thing we spend all that money on health care.

The study, led by researchers at Brown University, found that the wealthiest Americans lived shorter lives than the wealthiest Europeans. In fact, wealthy Northern and Western Europeans had death rates 35 percent lower than the wealthiest Americans, whose lifespans were more like the poorest in Northern and Western Europe—which includes countries such as France, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

"The findings are a stark reminder that even the wealthiest Americans are not shielded from the systemic issues in the US contributing to lower life expectancy, such as economic inequality or risk factors like stress, diet or environmental hazards," lead study author Irene Papanicolas, a professor of health services, policy and practice at Brown, said in a news release.

that's because we are fat asses.

I saw more people exercising in my week in Paris than I've seen in Oklahoma in 20 years. Seemed like everyone was in shape and only obese people i saw were American tourists.

25 years ago in Europe it stuck out to me. Normal-sized portions and they walk everywhere. It's fairly simple.

The sheer size of meals in America is ridiculous. Ingredients too, but holy crap the amount for one sitting is nuts.

It really is crazy. I worked out of the US Embassy in Kenya for 4 months and got used to the meals from the nearby hotel restaurant.

When I came back stateside it took me almost almost a full week until I could even eat an American sized portion in one sitting.

Sad part is I don't remember ever feeling the meals were too small when I first got out there.

We are the fattest nation in the world with the most expensive health-care system in the world. Tough combo unless you make money in the health care industry.

Unpopular opinion, but I think should be less accepting of unhealthy lifestyles. It would be nice to see some form of health reward from companies or insurance. I know mine offers small things here and there, but it's hardly worth the time and energy to apply and track it for what the reward is.

imo, if your bmi is obese you should pay more for insurance

So the food game is rigged over generations and you want to punish the poor lab rat .

I'm all for fixing the food game as well. There seems to be a movement to do that currently that faces some push back. We can't even agree on what's healthy anymore. The regulating industries have lost their way and they aren't looking out for everyone's best health interests, but we still hold them as a food authority figure.

Yes and no. Does anyone reject the idea that ultraprocessed foods are bad, while fresh fruits and veggies are good?

Forget about all the “macro” nonsense. Nutrition policy which eliminates the former, while promoting the latter would go a long way towards improving population health.

No, but I think that's too simplistic of a view. Our population isn't going to just start eating fruits and veggies for the bulk of their nutrition. There is a wide range of stuff in the middle. I can google seed oils and saturated fat and the first page of results are headlines from reputable sources saying entirely opposite things. It's confusing at best to know what's harmful and what isn't.

I think half the overweight population doesn't care to eat right and the other half struggle to understand our food.

They might not like it, at least initially, but it really is that simple.

No need to get lost in the nuances of healthy/unhealthy fats - if you eat a minimally processed, plant-based diet, seeds and all, you’ll be way ahead of the game.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Anyone with decent muscle mass is going to be overweight to obese using BMI.

Absolutely incorrect. If anything, BMI underestimates obesity, when compared to body composition testing. On a population level, there are far more “skinny fat” individuals than musclebound athletes.

“Decent” muscle mass is in the eye of the beholder, of course. Regardless, our perception of healthy weight is skewed high, and most guys protesting their BMIs actually have excess fat. Moreover, there’s a wealth of data linking high BMI to adverse health outcomes.

That’s not to say BMI is perfect. But coupled with things like waist:hip ratio, it’s the quickest, most cost effective way to screen for overweight and obesity.

Population wise you're probably right. I work in a community that's on the other end of that spectrum, so in my small sample size I see BMI as way over simplified painting a poor picture of health when that's not the case. I sometimes forget the population at large is in much worse condition that I realize.

Just to bash BMI a bit more... Ashton Jeanty is 5'8" 211. That is obese on BMI. Tet McMillan 6'4" 220 is "overweight". I think there are better indicators of health out there.

Also agree with you that it's quick and easy to get a number which is why it's commonly used. I'd still object to it being used as the primary tool to assess health care rates.

No one denies BMI overestimates adiposity in elite athletes.

But the vast majority of Americans who are overweight/obese by BMI, ummm, aren't. And by my estimation, this includes most people in the gym.

I'll just say the military community isn't the typical American, so we may just view BMI differently.

Of course, which is why you shouldn’t summarily write-off BMI as a useful screening tool for most of us.

 

[Max Power]

Anyone with decent muscle mass is going to be overweight to obese using BMI.

Absolutely incorrect. If anything, BMI underestimates obesity, when compared to body composition testing. On a population level, there are far more “skinny fat” individuals than musclebound athletes.

“Decent” muscle mass is in the eye of the beholder, of course. Regardless, our perception of healthy weight is skewed high, and most guys protesting their BMIs actually have excess fat. Moreover, there’s a wealth of data linking high BMI to adverse health outcomes.

That’s not to say BMI is perfect. But coupled with things like waist:hip ratio, it’s the quickest, most cost effective way to screen for overweight and obesity.

Population wise you're probably right. I work in a community that's on the other end of that spectrum, so in my small sample size I see BMI as way over simplified painting a poor picture of health when that's not the case. I sometimes forget the population at large is in much worse condition that I realize.

Just to bash BMI a bit more... Ashton Jeanty is 5'8" 211. That is obese on BMI. Tet McMillan 6'4" 220 is "overweight". I think there are better indicators of health out there.

Also agree with you that it's quick and easy to get a number which is why it's commonly used. I'd still object to it being used as the primary tool to assess health care rates.

No one denies BMI overestimates adiposity in elite athletes.

But the vast majority of Americans who are overweight/obese by BMI, ummm, aren't. And by my estimation, this includes most people in the gym.

I'll just say the military community isn't the typical American, so we may just view BMI differently.

Of course, which is why you shouldn’t summarily write-off BMI as a useful screening tool for most of us.

It is a useful tool. It's just not the right tool for a personalized health assessment.

My fear with BMI in the context we started discussing is that if that the number was added to say a medical benefit questioner for coverage, they look at it and say this guy's a health risk.

The reality is my doctor can see that number and then take a look at me and realize I'm not a substantial health risk. I just don't think it's a good number to be floating around without context.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Anyone with decent muscle mass is going to be overweight to obese using BMI.

Absolutely incorrect. If anything, BMI underestimates obesity, when compared to body composition testing. On a population level, there are far more “skinny fat” individuals than musclebound athletes.

“Decent” muscle mass is in the eye of the beholder, of course. Regardless, our perception of healthy weight is skewed high, and most guys protesting their BMIs actually have excess fat. Moreover, there’s a wealth of data linking high BMI to adverse health outcomes.

That’s not to say BMI is perfect. But coupled with things like waist:hip ratio, it’s the quickest, most cost effective way to screen for overweight and obesity.

Population wise you're probably right. I work in a community that's on the other end of that spectrum, so in my small sample size I see BMI as way over simplified painting a poor picture of health when that's not the case. I sometimes forget the population at large is in much worse condition that I realize.

Just to bash BMI a bit more... Ashton Jeanty is 5'8" 211. That is obese on BMI. Tet McMillan 6'4" 220 is "overweight". I think there are better indicators of health out there.

Also agree with you that it's quick and easy to get a number which is why it's commonly used. I'd still object to it being used as the primary tool to assess health care rates.

No one denies BMI overestimates adiposity in elite athletes.

But the vast majority of Americans who are overweight/obese by BMI, ummm, aren't. And by my estimation, this includes most people in the gym.

I'll just say the military community isn't the typical American, so we may just view BMI differently.

Of course, which is why you shouldn’t summarily write-off BMI as a useful screening tool for most of us.

It is a useful tool. It's just not the right tool for a personalized health assessment.

My fear with BMI in the context we started discussing is that if that the number was added to say a medical benefit questioner for coverage, they look at it and say this guy's a health risk.

The reality is my doctor can see that number and then take a look at me and realize I'm not a substantial health risk. I just don't think it's a good number to be floating around without context.

It’s a screening tool, not a label to be used without context.

Look, we basically agree. I was really just objecting to your “decent muscle mass” comment, as it propagates the idea that BMI is useless. The percentage of the population whom excess muscle accounts for overweight/obese is really quite small, yet seemingly every guy who’s ever lifted a weight parrots that excuse for their bloated BMIs.

 

[fatness]

The family of a 2-year-old girl has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against a metro Atlanta hospital, claiming inadequate care led to her death last year. Maya Getahun’s family filed the lawsuit against Piedmont Eastside Medical Center in Snellville. The lawsuit states on Oct. 7, 2024, her family brought her to the emergency room after Getahun was bitten by ants and had an allergic reaction. “While recognizing this was an allergic reaction, the medical staff waited over 20 minutes before administering epinephrine, causing Maya’s condition to worsen,” the lawsuit claims. The lawsuit claims that when doctors tried to intubate Getahun, they realized they did not have the right-sized equipment for a young child. “Maya’s parents looked on helplessly as their daughter slowly died from lack of oxygen,” the lawsuit states. “Maya’s death was 100% preventable,” said Lloyd Bell, founding partner of Bell Law Firm, one of the firms representing the parents, along with the law firm Andersen, Tate & Carr.

Family files lawsuit against Snellville hospital after daughter dies while having allergic reaction

Maya Getahun’s family filed the lawsuit against Piedmont Eastside Medical Center in Snellville.

www.atlantanewsfirst.com

 

[Dezbelief]

Newlywed, 27, Lied to Get a Colonoscopy. It Caught Stage 4 Cancer — After Doctors Had Dismissed Her Symptoms

After having her symptoms dismissed by doctors, Sydney Stoner, 27, decided to lie and say she had blood in her stool to get a referral for a colonoscopy, which ultimately led to her stage 4 bowel cancer diagnosis.

people.com

Sydney Stoner was suffering from severe symptoms but was dismissed by doctors because of her young age
The then 27-year-old decided to lie about having blood in her stool in order to get a referral for a colonoscopy, which ultimately led to her stage 4 bowel cancer diagnosis

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Seems like this might be a good place to ask this question, how does one reliably find a new doctor? Will a PCP let a patient have a consult to see if they're a good fit? My old doctor is leaving their practice and I'll need a new one. The last time i had to find a new doctor i just looked at who was accepting new patients and took the first one. I was lucky and found a good doctor this way, but the right fit is important to me in any new heathcare partnership so ideally i would like to meet a new doctor first. Just curious if anyone has any recent experience switching doctors and did more than just grab the first one they could find?

 

[Courtjester]

Maybe off topic, but just mind-blowing how much waste/over charging exists today. My 90 year old mom had a stroke in January. We caught it early (the 4 hour rule is so important) She was in the ICU for 3 days and then in a regular room for 2 days before release. We were in a full on blizzard and they wanted to kick her out at 8:00 pm at night despite the fact the entire family was there from 6:00 am that morning and we just went home for the night--that is another story. She was released home with services. She has Medicare and a supplemental insurance program. We got the summary of services and costs--$318,000 . I went through the 18 page bill and there were services listed for things I sure don't remember her getting. but who knows. Her out of pocket cost---zero.

The ambulance immediately billed us for $2,500, but if we paid right away they would take $1,750. I let it ride for a month and sure enough it was reduced to $249.00. Now her blood thinner meds are a whole other world. The prescription we left the hospital with was going to run $3,000 a month because it was in a tier 5 level. However we got another prescription that If she didn't have the supplemental benefit, would have been free, but because she does, we have a $3,000 deductible and a $47 a month co-payment. Not the worst, but just upsetting.

 

[Judge Smails]

it seemed like everyone smoked in france

I was disgusted by the cigarette butts to the top of curb on every street in Paris

 

[Judge Smails]

Seems like this might be a good place to ask this question, how does one reliably find a new doctor? Will a PCP let a patient have a consult to see if they're a good fit? My old doctor is leaving their practice and I'll need a new one. The last time i had to find a new doctor i just looked at who was accepting new patients and took the first one. I was lucky and found a good doctor this way, but the right fit is important to me in any new heathcare partnership so ideally i would like to meet a new doctor first. Just curious if anyone has any recent experience switching doctors and did more than just grab the first one they could find?

My primary care doc went concierge and I didn't want to pay an extra $3K a year on top of getting billed through insurance. I went to about 4 doctors before finding another one I liked. Best way is through referral. Otherwise you'll be reading reviews and throwing darts.

 

[Orange&Blue]

it seemed like everyone smoked in france

I was disgusted by the cigarette butts to the top of curb on every street in Paris

i didn't see that, but i did see lots of people smoking.