USA Shootings (8 Viewers)

[Apple Jack]

Oh wait .... no they didn't ....... why ?

 

[KCitons]

The US banned lawn darts permanently after 4 children were killed.   4.

Actually, the didn't ban lawn darts. They changed them to make them less deadly. 

Which brings us back to our topic of the thread. How many proposed gun regulations would make guns less deadly? Magazine capacity? Lethality of caliber? 

Does a gun registration make a gun any less lethal?

 

[Stealthycat]

You can't provide stats for these questions that you bring up.  

its a heck of a lot more than are killed IMO but no - that's like asking how many times does brakes on a car stop an accident - the number isn't tracked because everytime isn't reported

its been guesstimated - but the value is real. We do known all the instances that media reports, we know incidents happen that are not reported, we know officers use guns to stop crimes, we know guns are used to the greater good and its not rare but common 

The bolded is something that will not happen.  I honestly don't see you agreeing to many proposals that would be set forth that include guns.  

As far as an overview on the thread?  I get the impression that most here don't think a full on ban would work or is the answer, but that changes need to be made.  I guess that leaves us mostly talking about how best to keep the guns out of the hands of people who might do this and/or severely limiting the amount of damage they can once they decide to carry out an act- with the main focus on the mass/school/church/concert shootings

you're right, on guns I see no reason for more controls on them - we have enough and as more and more own guns and concealed weapons, crime is still going down overall and people are defending themselves more and more - those are GOOD things

so lets look at some of what's being suggested by Democrats

heavy taxes on ammo that target gun owners ... won't impact gun deaths at all

banning bump stocks ... won't impact gun deaths at all

banning AR15's ... won't much of an on impact gun deaths at all because they're literally used less than knives to kill people every year

registrations ... won't impact gun deaths at all because criminals aren't going to register their guns

background checks - only as good as the Fed Govt makes it, and only works when those who fail it are punished hard right ?

banning "silencers" .... ... won't impact gun deaths at all

raising age to buy guns ... won't much of an on impact gun deaths at all because they'll just steal or take or black market buy

Red Flag laws - I'll go for them if done right. Absolutely  they can work and they can be partisan

Arming schools/teachers is something that can be partisan

Make punishment exceptionally hard on those committing violent gun crimes

what else can you think of that would target criminals and not impact legal law abiding gun owners ?

 

[dkp993]

you REALLY want to compare carrying a nuclear weapon and carrying a gun and try to pass both of them off as self defense? seriously ?

concealed weapon carriers save lives every year - you can google stories all day long on how people have used them. 

how are bombs different? Well you blow everything up in the area around where you detonate the bomb is one difference. They're illegal and nowhere in the Constitution. Those are differences. I suppose if 150 million homes had bombs with never much of a problem and 15 million carried them every day without a problem and people used bombs in self defense then you'd have a decent analogy

but they don't 

So you want to use what you want to when making a comparison or analogy (like cars or knives) but I can’t.  Got it. 

You do realize there are large portions of the world that think carrying a gun around in public is just as stupid and extreme as you think carrying a bomb around is. Just because you and 15 million other people think it’s normal to carry a gun around every day in no way shape or form makes it normal.  There’s probably more than 15 million people who think it’s normal to drive drunk as you love to point out, this too does not make that normal   

Bombs save lives too, in fact bombs ended WW2 thus saving million of lives.  

I’d also like to point out that less people died last year from bombs in the US then guns.  

Anyways my point was a gun is not just a tool. No matter how bad you want it to be. It’s an item that was designed and built to kill. Just like bombs.  

 

[Stealthycat]

Actually, the didn't ban lawn darts. They changed them to make them less deadly. 

Which brings us back to our topic of the thread. How many proposed gun regulations would make guns less deadly? Magazine capacity? Lethality of caliber? 

Does a gun registration make a gun any less lethal?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_darts

the tricky Constitution gets in the way again though on guns ......... hey, I'd like to ban Nazi and White Supremacist and racists groups etc but they have the Right to believe and speak and that's Constitutional even though I disagree right ?

instead of banning things on gun owners ....  can you think of anything that would NOT impact law abiding gun owners and instead targets criminals ?

 

[Stealthycat]

So you want to use what you want to when making a comparison or analogy (like cars or knives) but I can’t.  Got it. 

You do realize there are large portions of the world that think carrying a gun around in public is just as stupid and extreme as you think carrying a bomb around is. Just because you and 15 million other people think it’s normal to carry a gun around every day in no way shape or form makes it normal.  There’s probably more than 15 million people who think it’s normal to drive drunk as you love to point out, this too does not make that normal   

Bombs save lives too, in fact bombs ended WW2 thus saving million of lives.  

I’d also like to point out that less people died last year from bombs in the US then guns.  

Anyways my point was a gun is not just a tool. No matter how bad you want it to be. It’s an item that was designed and built to kill. Just like

no - make all analogies you want - but a nuclear bomb is a terrible one

thing is, you've got 15 million or more carrying around guns every day - no issues. If you think that'd work with bombs then that's ok I suppose. In fact, if you want to carry a bomb?   don't bother me if you passed a background check at Academy when you bought it. I figure you're a decent guy, you are not going to bomb me right? 

go for it - don't bother me really

I don't fear law abiding people - I just don't. Why everyone else does baffles me. Its the criminals who are the ones that commit crimes. The ones involved in illegal drugs, the ones that do domestic violence etc. Right?

 

[KarmaPolice]

its a heck of a lot more than are killed IMO but no - that's like asking how many times does brakes on a car stop an accident - the number isn't tracked because everytime isn't reported

its been guesstimated - but the value is real. We do known all the instances that media reports, we know incidents happen that are not reported, we know officers use guns to stop crimes, we know guns are used to the greater good and its not rare but common 

what else can you think of that would target criminals and not impact legal law abiding gun owners ?

There really is not much point to this conversation, is there? 

You have said that gun owners have given up enough and are very much against anything that would effect them one bit.    I like the theory of Red Flags, but I have gone on in depth about how different the shooters are and how hard it would be to predict that (you yourself admitted this last part).  So that is not a primary weapon for this.  I think HF had a great point about the stricter punishments and that the shooters seem to be going in for suicide by cop more and more.  Of the ideas, I am most against turning our schools into prisons.   Let's just say there is probably 0 I could say that you will agree with, and 0 you could say that I would agree with and call it good.  

 

[Stealthycat]

There really is not much point to this conversation, is there? 

You have said that gun owners have given up enough and are very much against anything that would effect them one bit.    I like the theory of Red Flags, but I have gone on in depth about how different the shooters are and how hard it would be to predict that (you yourself admitted this last part).  So that is not a primary weapon for this.  I think HF had a great point about the stricter punishments and that the shooters seem to be going in for suicide by cop more and more.  Of the ideas, I am most against turning our schools into prisons.   Let's just say there is probably 0 I could say that you will agree with, and 0 you could say that I would agree with and call it good

there ya go !

Red Flag laws we can agree on - they can be crafted for the good

example

https://thebrunswicknews.com/breaking/cops-bhs-student-arrested-for-shooting-threats/article_f2b91606-4381-5bed-b247-5227f75938bd.html

I think HF had a great point about the stricter punishments and that the shooters seem to be going in for suicide by cop more and more.

they are crazy mentally ill people - those are the mass school/concert/theatre shooters ....  harder sentencing probably won't affect those very few and rare people anyway. I think it WOULD impact common criminals that commit gun violence. Thank God they are very very few like that. 

I am most against turning our schools into prisons.

hope you don't have kids in schools because arming schools is coming fast everywhere.

and they work - so we don't agree on them but school shootings is way way down for the first time in years especially when it comes to a shooter going to mass kill

eventually they will be rare occurrences IMO - time will tell, your side has already lost this battle, people want their kids safe and protected and we're doing it nationwide !

 

[KarmaPolice]

there ya go !

Red Flag laws we can agree on - they can be crafted for the good

example

https://thebrunswicknews.com/breaking/cops-bhs-student-arrested-for-shooting-threats/article_f2b91606-4381-5bed-b247-5227f75938bd.html

they are crazy mentally ill people - those are the mass school/concert/theatre shooters ....  harder sentencing probably won't affect those very few and rare people anyway. I think it WOULD impact common criminals that commit gun violence. Thank God they are very very few like that. 

hope you don't have kids in schools because arming schools is coming fast everywhere.

and they work - so we don't agree on them but school shootings is way way down for the first time in years especially when it comes to a shooter going to mass kill

eventually they will be rare occurrences IMO - time will tell, your side has already lost this battle, people want their kids safe and protected and we're doing it nationwide !

So a long winded way of saying you agree that we dont agree on things.  

 

[Stealthycat]

not many maybe ,,,, but Red Flag laws is a very important one. I will say that they need to be done CORRECTLY - without fact/evidence our govt doesn't need to barge into homes and seize things, but done right these measures are a good thing. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gun-seizures-spike-nationally-as-states-pass-laws-aimed-at-curbing-mass-shootings

 

[KarmaPolice]

Yeah, we don't really agree much about red flag laws either. 

 

[dkp993]

I’m tapping out. SC I appreciate your willingness to engage, I really do, but I just don’t feel you have any other intention but pushing your desire.   

Best of luck to you, and may your trips to racquetball be safe.  

 

[the rover]

why would I think about that article when I shoot an AR15?  You can't take guns anywhere near a school - that's the law. 

I do wonder about school safety and my local schools have really beefed up security in the past few years. My son's school is now gun toting guarded THANK GOD.  They also have lockdown drills etc. I told him once get away, and if he can't get away? fight like hell - don't be a fish in a pond. ever

You understand that it isn’t healthy for children to believe they’ll be murdered at school, right?  

 

[Stealthycat]

You understand that it isn’t healthy for children to believe they’ll be murdered at school, right?  

if people are telling kids that they need to stop IMO. I've told me kids they have a smaller chance of dying in school from an attack than from many many other things that happen daily and that there is an irrational fear associated with school shootings - don't fear them, have security in place to ensure everyone feels safe and that IF it ever did occur, there is a plan in place to address it. what does that tell kids ? that just like industrial parks that have fences/razor wire, and like federal building have 24x7 guards and like airports that have security .... schools do too and its just safety measures that make us all safe

 

[Stealthycat]

I’m tapping out. SC I appreciate your willingness to engage, I really do, but I just don’t feel you have any other intention but pushing your desire.   

Best of luck to you, and may your trips to racquetball be safe.  

more like defend my position

every day we're seeing more people carry guns - this isn't making us deadlier as a nation but rather, safer

every day we're seeing more schools using armed security - this isn't making us deadlier as a nation but rather, safer

I would hope knowing those two things would make people pause of a second when Democrats talk about the evils of guns. 

I'm a high C player, low B ............ not been playing well lately :(   but good carido for 2 1/2 hours 3-4 times each week

 

[Sheriff Bart]

You understand that it isn’t healthy for children to believe they’ll be murdered at school, right?  

But muh AR  is fun too shoot!!  Not MY fault!!!

 

[Sheriff Bart]

if people are telling kids that they need to stop IMO. I've told me kids they have a smaller chance of dying in school from an attack than from many many other things that happen daily and that there is an irrational fear associated with school shootings - don't fear them, have security in place to ensure everyone feels safe and that IF it ever did occur, there is a plan in place to address it. what does that tell kids ? that just like industrial parks that have fences/razor wire, and like federal building have 24x7 guards and like airports that have security .... schools do too and its just safety measures that make us all safe

Every school has active shooter drills multiple times a year. 

You either:

A: Didn't read the article

N: Don't have kids

3: Have kids but don't know what is going on at their school

D Most of the above

 

[Stealthycat]

Every school has active shooter drills multiple times a year. 

You either:

A: Didn't read the article

N: Don't have kids

3: Have kids but don't know what is going on at their school

D Most of the above

what article ?

N and 3 you'll ether believe what I say or not, that's your choice, can't do anything about that.

 

[KCitons]

Every school has active shooter drills multiple times a year. 

You either:

A: Didn't read the article

N: Don't have kids

3: Have kids but don't know what is going on at their school

D Most of the above

I read the article. It's a sad state of affairs.

Nonetheless, school shootings remain relatively rare, even after a year of historic carnage on K-12 campuses. What's not rare are lockdowns, which have become a hallmark of American education and a byproduct of this country's inability to curb its gun violence epidemic. Lockdowns save lives during real attacks, but even when there is no gunman stalking the hallways, the procedures can inflict immense psychological damage on children convinced that they're in danger. And the number of kids who have experienced these ordeals is extraordinary.

Not sure what the answer is. It only leads to more questions.

Three times between September and November, bursts of gunfire near MaKenzie's public charter elementary school led DC Prep to seal off its Washington campus and sequester its students. During the last one, on Nov. 16, a silver sedan parked just around the corner at 10:42 a.m., then the men inside stepped out and fired more than 40 rounds. As MaKenzie's class hid upstairs, teachers frantically rushed three dozen preschoolers off the playground and back into the building.

I tried to find out more information on these men. But was unsuccessful. Sounds like gang violence, but I can't confirm. Would any gun regulations stop gang violence? Would it stop the lockdowns in this neighborhood if guns were banned in DC?

 

[Ilov80s]

Student of mine who got accepted into Princeton for the fall has been involved in a writing project the last year documenting gun deaths with The Miami Herald.

https://sinceparkland.org/authors/auhjanae-mcgee/

 

[Sheriff Bart]

what article ?

N and 3 you'll ether believe what I say or not, that's your choice, can't do anything about that.

This article, you know, the one you quoted.

 

[The Commish]

Been observing the movements happening in the country.  @KCitons had brought up one group and it continues to grow.  Another that seems like it has real staying power being supported by Michael Bloomberg's billions is https://everytown.org/who-we-are/

There are dozens of these groups now and MANY of them are being started by people under 25.  There is hope for the future if they could organize and all get on the same page.  

 

[Stealthycat]

This article, you know, the one you quoted.

this one then ?

https://theweek.com/articles/816927/when-kids-think-shooter-coming

that's a glorified opinion piece - I suppose society could tell kids lockdowns are to keep dragons out (I don't think lying is good) , or lockdowns are so all the little kids won't get violently killed by mentally ill ( I don't think that's a good thing to say) ....... or we could explain that safety is important and in the exceptionally rare case of tornadoes, we need drills, or the rare case of earthquakes, we need drills ............ and in the rare rare case of a terrorist attack or shooting situation, drills for that is needed too.

its safety - just like locking the doors on your home

 

[Stealthycat]

Student of mine who got accepted into Princeton for the fall has been involved in a writing project the last year documenting gun deaths with The Miami Herald.

https://sinceparkland.org/authors/auhjanae-mcgee/

the wording of the home page seems to blame the guns instead of blaming the people using the guns. I think that's a fundamental flaw 

 

[Ilov80s]

the wording of the home page seems to blame the guns instead of blaming the people using the guns. I think that's a fundamental flaw 

The homepage says

Fatal shootings of children have been on the rise, government data show. But as the deaths mount, the toll is bigger than what numbers can capture.

Working with The Trace, The Miami Herald, and McClatchy, student reporters set out to measure the void left in homes and classrooms that have lost young people to the pull of a trigger.

Where is the fundamental flaw?

 

[Stealthycat]

The homepage says

Where is the fundamental flaw?

"Saving kids from guns" 

"guns take a heavy toll"

"this city fights back against gun violence"

"children dying, injured by guns"

wordings like that makes the gun seem like the instigator and attacker ....... vs them being inanimate objects that PEOPLE use for their violent acts

I did click on multiple links there ... this one is interesting as it hits on what's been discussed recently "Do careless gun owners go to jail when their kids shoot themselves? It depends" 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article225006255.html

 

[Ilov80s]

"Saving kids from guns" 

"guns take a heavy toll"

"this city fights back against gun violence"

"children dying, injured by guns"

wordings like that makes the gun seem like the instigator and attacker ....... vs them being inanimate objects that PEOPLE use for their violent acts

I did click on multiple links there ... this one is interesting as it hits on what's been discussed recently "Do careless gun owners go to jail when their kids shoot themselves? It depends" 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article225006255.html

Where is that? It's not on the main part of the homepage or in the about section. Also, you really think using the phrase "gun violence" is a fundamental flaw for writing articles about people shot to death? How do we even talk about the problem?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Where is that? It's not on the main part of the homepage or in the about section. Also, you really think using the phrase "gun violence" is a fundamental flaw for writing articles about people shot to death? How do we even talk about the problem?

He only approves of anything that does not put a light on gun owners.  I think just "violence" and "death" is what he would be going for.   A gun just happened to be the tool that was used.  

 

[Ilov80s]

He only approves of anything that does not put a light on gun owners.  I think just "violence" and "death" is what he would be going for.   A gun just happened to be the tool that was used.  

Yeah I definitely know where he stands on the issue but to complain about the term "gun violence" being used in articles highlighting children who have been be shot and killed is a new level of absurdity.  Sad that his only takeaway from the whole project was that it was unfair to guns. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Yeah I definitely know where he stands on the issue but to complain about the term "gun violence" being used in articles highlighting children who have been be shot and killed is a new level of absurdity.  Sad that his only takeaway from the whole project was that it was unfair to guns. 

Unfortunately, I am not surprised at all.

 

[Ilov80s]

On the one year anniversary of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, today seems like a good time to reflect on our lives and the lives of our loved ones. It could all be over at any second.

 

[SoBeDad]

On the one year anniversary of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, today seems like a good time to reflect on our lives and the lives of our loved ones. It could all be over at any second.

It's an emotional day for thousands of people connected to the MSD victims. Students have used the power of social media to make their voices heard.The local press has been reporting on how the family members of the 17 victims, especially parents, have tried to cope and make a difference for others. The parents of a teacher Scott Schulman  played a role in red flag legislation in NY. One mother was elected to the Broward County school board. Others have worked on school safety, while others have tried to influence legislation on gun control. Baby steps. Meanwhile, as I write this post, there have likely been several victims of gun violence outside of a school setting. 

 

[Ilov80s]

It's an emotional day for thousands of people connected to the MSD victims. Students have used the power of social media to make their voices heard.The local press has been reporting on how the family members of the 17 victims, especially parents, have tried to cope and make a difference for others. The parents of a teacher Scott Schulman  played a role in red flag legislation in NY. One mother was elected to the Broward County school board. Others have worked on school safety, while others have tried to influence legislation on gun control. Baby steps. Meanwhile, as I write this post, there have likely been several victims of gun violence outside of a school setting. 

I posted this a day or 2 ago but a student of mine was part of this year long nationwide project documenting children shot to death across the country since Parkland

https://sinceparkland.org/

1200 kids in 12 months 

 

[Apple Jack]

I posted this a day or 2 ago but a student of mine was part of this year long nationwide project documenting children shot to death across the country since Parkland

https://sinceparkland.org/

1200 kids in 12 months 

"What about car accidents are you going to ban cars didn't think so" or "not statistically significant."

 

[Ilov80s]

A short video featuring my student and others on the children who we lost to gun violence in the last year

 

[Stealthycat]

Yeah I definitely know where he stands on the issue but to complain about the term "gun violence" being used in articles highlighting children who have been be shot and killed is a new level of absurdity.  Sad that his only takeaway from the whole project was that it was unfair to guns. 

I didn't say that. 

What I said was that its fundamentally flawed to blame guns and not the people that are the evil ones behind the guns. 

concealed carry worth it - again

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/02/13/man-enters-dental-office-to-kill-wife-is-shot-multiple-times-by-armed-patient/?fbclid=IwAR2Do2dEHhWIK35wq0eGvdOfdrKnwnwuiofZexcDx_E6hB7z_7AnjOf1A34

 

[-fish-]

I didn't say that. 

What I said was that its fundamentally flawed to blame guns and not the people that are the evil ones behind the guns. 

concealed carry worth it - again

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/02/13/man-enters-dental-office-to-kill-wife-is-shot-multiple-times-by-armed-patient/?fbclid=IwAR2Do2dEHhWIK35wq0eGvdOfdrKnwnwuiofZexcDx_E6hB7z_7AnjOf1A34

Man wanted to kill his wife and did.   Concealed carry prevented nothing.   

Another gun death.  That's tragic.

 

[Epic Problem]

Not that these things even create a blip on our radar anymore, but Aurora, Il. Come on down, its your turn. 

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/active-shooter-aurora-illinois/index.html

Reports are the 4 LEOs are among the injured. 

I was about 2 blocks away from it when it happened. 

 

[Ilov80s]

I didn't say that. 

What I said was that its fundamentally flawed to blame guns and not the people that are the evil ones behind the guns. 

I posted a project highlighting the shooting deaths of children and you said they shouldn’t have used the phrase “gun violence”. They aren’t trying to solve any kind of gun problem. There’s no recommendation for legislation in the articles, it’s just the stories of kids who were shot and killed. You couldn’t just look at it for what it is but instead inserted your defense of guns. You complained about stories about kids who were shot and killed for using the phrase “gun violence”. That actually happened.

 

[Apple Jack]

I didn't say that. 

What I said was that its fundamentally flawed to blame guns and not the people that are the evil ones behind the guns. 

concealed carry worth it - again

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/02/13/man-enters-dental-office-to-kill-wife-is-shot-multiple-times-by-armed-patient/?fbclid=IwAR2Do2dEHhWIK35wq0eGvdOfdrKnwnwuiofZexcDx_E6hB7z_7AnjOf1A34

at the video that pops up blaming Obama for ship collisions.

 

[kface]

At least we got the border wall emergency out of the way.

Bunch of innocent people shot barely gets a reaction anymore...who cares

 

[timschochet]

One of the arguments that you always here from NRA types is that the crazies avoid facing other armed people; that’s why they look for gun free zones. 

Apparently in Illinois this guy shot at policemen. Seems to blow that theory to hell...

 

[Jackstraw]

Man wanted to kill his wife and did.   Concealed carry prevented nothing.   

Another gun death.  That's tragic.

Yeah, If thats the success story you have on guns......

 

[Courtjester]

One of the arguments that you always here from NRA types is that the crazies avoid facing other armed people; that’s why they look for gun free zones. 

Apparently in Illinois this guy shot at policemen. Seems to blow that theory to hell...

Wrong. The police showed up to stop this guy after he was shooting at his co-workers. 

 

[sho nuff]

One of the arguments that you always here from NRA types is that the crazies avoid facing other armed people; that’s why they look for gun free zones. 

Apparently in Illinois this guy shot at policemen. Seems to blow that theory to hell...

That theory was already bogus.

Gunman target what they are pissed about. Bullies or what have you...it has always had little to nothing to do with “gun free zone” .  They attach wjere theor target(s) are...and since they ultimately expect or want to die, an armed response to them isn’t a deterrent z

 

[Riddick02]

The police showed up to stop this guy after he was shooting at his co-workers. 

Hearing the shooter was fired this morning. 

 

[KCitons]

Not seeing many solutions being offered here. Just more traffic after a mass shooting.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Not seeing many solutions being offered here. Just more traffic after a mass shooting.

Feel free to give it a try.

 

[Henry Ford]

Where is that? It's not on the main part of the homepage or in the about section. Also, you really think using the phrase "gun violence" is a fundamental flaw for writing articles about people shot to death? How do we even talk about the problem?

“Death of the natural cause of lack of oxygen to the brain related to blood loss coincidentally occurring following the introduction of metal projectiles into the body at high rates of speed.”

 

[KarmaPolice]

Yeah, If thats the success story you have on guns......

This is from the guy who posted a link to a "self defense" shooting that involved 2 knuckleheads fighting, getting separated a couple times in a different location, then one of them going to get a gun.