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USC Pro day coverage (1 Viewer)
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EBF
Footballguy
He has a 4.5 career YPC average and was dominant in the 2003 preseason, leading the league in rushing (other recent preseason rushing champs include Rudi Johnson and Chester Taylor). Everyone has written him off, but I think he's a nice player to acquire on the cheap. He has better physical skills than almost every RB in the NFL and is available for pennies in most dynasty leagues. You could do a lot worse.
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
I'm referring to Edwards anger toward the Dolphins after he was supposedly promised to be their pick.link:
http://www.giants.com/news/nfl_news/story.asp?story_id=11276
Edwards felt chill on draft day
By TOM WITHERS
November 20, 2005
CLEVELAND (AP) -- On a spring day in New York several months back, Braylon Edwards awoke for the biggest day of his young life. In a few hours, the NFL draft would fulfill the Michigan star's boyhood dreams.
It didn't go quite the way he expected.
After the San Francisco 49ers picked quarterback Alex Smith with the No. 1 overall pick, Edwards, dressed in a gray suit accented with pink pinstripes, fully anticipated being taken second by the Miami Dolphins.
They told him to be ready.
They took Auburn running back Ronnie Brown instead.
"They used me as a pawn," Edwards said. "They told me one thing and did another. We call that lying."
On Sunday, Cleveland's rookie wide receiver gets his first shot at revenge as the Browns (3-6) face the Dolphins (3-6) in a matchup of once-proud franchises rebuilding after falling on hard times.
"We are similar teams going through similar struggles," Browns coach Romeo Crennel said.
One of Cleveland's biggest problems -- and the Browns have more than a few -- has been a lack of big offensive plays, a dilemma Edwards feels he could fix if the club would only give him the ball.
Earlier this week, a frustrated Edwards vented, saying it's time the Browns made better use of his talents. He missed two games with an infection in his arm, but with just 17 catches and one touchdown, it does appear the Browns aren't going to him nearly enough.
"We worked him in more last week and we'll work him in more this week. The analogy was made that Braylon was like a jet plane taking off," said Crennel, raising his arm skyward and using sound effects to emphasize his point. "You just don't go straight up in the air."
Edwards' size and speed are what attracted the Dolphins leading up to April's draft. Along with Smith and Brown, Edwards was identified by the club as a future star, a can't-miss player capable of getting the Dolphins turned around quickly.
So when commissioner Paul Tagliabue stepped to the podium to announce Miami's selection, Edwards expected to hear his name and prepared to slap an orange-and-green baseball cap on his head.
He opted for a brown-and-orange one instead.
This week, Edwards was asked if he thought he was headed for the South Florida sunshine on draft day.
"Very much so," he said.
Was he looking forward to that? "Very much so."
Edwards didn't identify which member of the Dolphins' front office promised they would draft him. However, he did say it wasn't Dolphins coach Nick Saban.
"I don't know who in this organization did say it," Saban said. "I never talked to Braylon or his agent. I would apologize to anyone involved in the circumstance for whoever in this organization did that. What we said was that there were three players -- Braylon was one of them -- that we were interested in taking with the second pick.
"We really didn't decide which player that would be until the morning of the draft, actually. He was one of three players we considered. That's putting him in pretty high status, some pretty tall cotton. I have nothing but respect for Braylon."
There has always been speculation the Dolphins were trying to force Cleveland into a trade. But Browns general manager Phil Savage didn't budge, and when Brown was off the board, Edwards was an easy pick for Cleveland.
This might be the perfect week for the Browns to take the harness off Edwards, who had two receptions for 64 yards last week in a loss to Pittsburgh. But he was overthrown by quarterback Trent Dilfer in the first quarter, a play that could have given the Browns a 14-0 lead.
So far, Brown has had a greater impact as a rookie than Edwards. With 675 yards on 140 carries and 23 receptions for 153 yards, Brown has been directly involved in 29 percent of Miami's 558 offensive plays.
By comparison, Edwards has been in on just 3 percent of Cleveland's 509 snaps on offense.
"I was drafted here to make plays," Edwards said. "That's obvious, any 4-year-old who watches the draft knows that."
Edwards insists he isn't using Miami's perceived snub as added motivation.
"It has gotten to the point where I've moved on and I put that out of my head," Edwards said. "This game isn't about revenge. It's just about going out there and doing the best that I can do. I haven't even thought about that anymore because I'm enjoying my situation in Cleveland so much that it hasn't even bothered me."
Given his comments this week, that's a little hard to believe. Something drove Edwards to finally scream out for the ball this week. Maybe it was the Dolphins, who threw him a curveball on draft day.
"It just so happens the team that did take me plays them this year," he said. "How ironic is that?"
i'm curious about white..
i heard (read) one scout recently talking about how 90% of their evaluation was arrived at from breaking the game tapes down extending back 2-3 years (in his case)...
if that is the case... & teams were ALREADY high on white BEFORE the combine & pro day workout circuit... did they really need the validation?
you can just pop in a tape & see how dominant he was...
actually, even if he was a 4.6-4.7 guy... he is frequently mentioned with bettis as a comp... i wonder what bettis ran in his prime?
and for that matter, guys like rice & TO were supposedly 4.6 guy or so... yet because they are gamers that play faster than they time in track shorts from a stop... they were/are always running away from defenders in he open field... maybe because when they got the ball, they weren't starting from a stop (like in 40)... but already have a running start, so to speak...
then again... with some teams thought to need RBs like ARI, BAL & MIN maybe no now... & with other good RBs to choose from even AFTER bush (williams, maroney)... maybe he was going to fall anyway?
i heard (read) one scout recently talking about how 90% of their evaluation was arrived at from breaking the game tapes down extending back 2-3 years (in his case)...
if that is the case... & teams were ALREADY high on white BEFORE the combine & pro day workout circuit... did they really need the validation?
you can just pop in a tape & see how dominant he was...
actually, even if he was a 4.6-4.7 guy... he is frequently mentioned with bettis as a comp... i wonder what bettis ran in his prime?
and for that matter, guys like rice & TO were supposedly 4.6 guy or so... yet because they are gamers that play faster than they time in track shorts from a stop... they were/are always running away from defenders in he open field... maybe because when they got the ball, they weren't starting from a stop (like in 40)... but already have a running start, so to speak...
then again... with some teams thought to need RBs like ARI, BAL & MIN maybe no now... & with other good RBs to choose from even AFTER bush (williams, maroney)... maybe he was going to fall anyway?
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
A great example of why measurables alone (in a vacuum) are pretty much useless. Fargas was a constant disappointment in college, not living up to the hype at Michigan, getting hurt much of his career and then having a halfway decent half of football at USC. With Bush, we've got all world ability and tons of game film PLUS the measurables to back it up.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
Normal playing weight from 235-250Weighed in at the combine at 238
Played in the Rose Bowl at 250
LenDale falling to the Steelers would be
Sounds like Addai...A great example of why measurables alone (in a vacuum) are pretty much useless. Fargas was a constant disappointment in college, not living up to the hype at Michigan, getting hurt much of his career and then having a halfway decent half of football at USC. With Bush, we've got all world ability and tons of game film PLUS the measurables to back it up.
Also Fargas has another thing going for him, a completly obscure simpsons appearance. Fargas is actually Huggy Bear Jr., and in one episode Huggy Bear's son is referenced and even shows up to do something silly. IIRC he looked nothing like fargas and I doubt they got his voice/permission. And as to not hijack, WOW on bush's numbers. I was somewhat of a doubter but it looks like has that extra gear that is going to do very very well for him in the pro's. Really interested as to what his shuttle and cone times were.
Leinart, Bush work out for coaches, scouts
JOHN NADEL/AP
4/2/2006
LOS ANGELES - Matt Leinart rolled to his left, and then back to his right before unleashing a perfectly thrown pass to Reggie Bush, who caught it some 30 yards downfield just inside the right sideline.
Just like it was drawn up, and the fans at Howard Jones Field cheered politely.
Then, it was on to the next play at USC's Pro Day on Sunday, where 19 former Southern California players worked out for more than 100 NFL representatives including head coaches John Fox of Carolina, Jeff Fisher of Tennessee and Gary Kubiak of Houston.
Most of the 19 are sure to be drafted later this month, including anywhere from three to six in the first round.
Thus, the large turnout, and those on hand were properly impressed.
"This is like a mini-combine, from an NFL standpoint," Fox said.
The majority of prospective prospects take part in the NFL Combine at Indianapolis every February, but several schools hold their own Pro Days.
"It's like a who's who, and it's just one university," said Baltimore Ravens assistant John Fassel, the son of former Giants coach Jim Fassel.
"This is the greatest aggregation of offensive firepower ever assembled on one pro scouting day from one school," said Leigh Steinberg, who represents Leinart and offensive tackle Winston Justice.
"Its like `Star Wars' with hundreds of recruits and media from across the country," Steinberg said, adding he hadn't seen anything like this is his 32 years representing players.
"Pete Carroll has really outdone himself," Steinberg said of the USC coach. "Pete has put the primacy on USC football on display for the whole nation to see."
Carroll, who has guided the Trojans to a 48-4 record over the past four seasons, combined junior day, an annual event where several prospective high school recruits tour the campus, with Pro Day.
"This is what we were dreaming it would be - just like this," he said.
With about 1,000 fans and recruits in the stands at Cromwell Field, the players took part in several drills including the vertical jump, 40-yard dash, standing long jump, weight lifting and different cone drills.
Then, everyone moved over to Howard Jones Field across the street for more drills.
Bush and Leinart, the last two Heisman Trophy winners who many experts believe will go 1-2 in the draft, were generally satisfied with how they did.
And they were glad the day was over.
"Oh, yeah," Bush said with a smile. "I'm going to take a vacation."
Bush outdid his former teammates in three areas, clocking 4.33 seconds in the 40, recording a 40 1/2-inch vertical jump, and going 10 feet, 8 1/2 inches in the standing broad jump. He had 24 repetitions bench-pressing 225 pounds.
"I would have liked to have run a little faster - I thought I could push a 4.29 out there, a 4.3-flat," he said. "This part of it is just trying to separate yourselves from the pack."
Bush, a runaway winner of the Heisman last season, has already done that.
"There's a lot of guys who are fast," said Baltimore Ravens assistant Mark Carrier, a defensive back at USC from 1986-89. "What makes him special is what he does when he has the ball in his hands. The guy up the street might run 4.2. But there aren't many guys who can do what he can do with the football."
It's been anticipated for months that Bush will go No. 1 in the April 29-30 draft to the Houston Texans. He said he met Saturday night with representatives of the Texans.
"It wasn't anything serious," he said, adding a similar meeting was planned Sunday night with the Tennessee Titans.
Leinart threw around 45 passes and was on-target with almost all of them. Afterward, he spoke of showing his athleticism, ability to throw on the run, and arm strength.
He had a vertical jump of 37 inches, but didn't run the 40.
"They know I'm not a running quarterback - the 40-yard dash for me is pointless," he said.
Steinberg, who has represented eight overall No. 1 selections in the draft, said he wouldn't be surprised if Leinart winds up No. 9.
"This day explodes the myth of heady quarterback with intangibles, cements Matt's status as the franchise quarterback pick at the top of the draft," Steinberg said.
Two potential first-round picks might be heading in opposite directions. Offensive tackle Winston Justice, who weighed in at 320 pounds, had a vertical jump of 39 inches and did 38 repetitions bench-pressing 225 pounds.
"It was like there was air in the bar, no iron," Fassel said, shaking his head.
Running back LenDale White didn't run the 40 because of a sore hamstring, and did 15 reps in the bench-press - only one more than punter Tom Malone. Plus, he weighed in at 244 pounds, which is probably more than what NFL teams want.
"I was surprised," Bush said regarding the fact that White didn't run the 40. "He said he was hurt."
JOHN NADEL/AP
4/2/2006
LOS ANGELES - Matt Leinart rolled to his left, and then back to his right before unleashing a perfectly thrown pass to Reggie Bush, who caught it some 30 yards downfield just inside the right sideline.
Just like it was drawn up, and the fans at Howard Jones Field cheered politely.
Then, it was on to the next play at USC's Pro Day on Sunday, where 19 former Southern California players worked out for more than 100 NFL representatives including head coaches John Fox of Carolina, Jeff Fisher of Tennessee and Gary Kubiak of Houston.
Most of the 19 are sure to be drafted later this month, including anywhere from three to six in the first round.
Thus, the large turnout, and those on hand were properly impressed.
"This is like a mini-combine, from an NFL standpoint," Fox said.
The majority of prospective prospects take part in the NFL Combine at Indianapolis every February, but several schools hold their own Pro Days.
"It's like a who's who, and it's just one university," said Baltimore Ravens assistant John Fassel, the son of former Giants coach Jim Fassel.
"This is the greatest aggregation of offensive firepower ever assembled on one pro scouting day from one school," said Leigh Steinberg, who represents Leinart and offensive tackle Winston Justice.
"Its like `Star Wars' with hundreds of recruits and media from across the country," Steinberg said, adding he hadn't seen anything like this is his 32 years representing players.
"Pete Carroll has really outdone himself," Steinberg said of the USC coach. "Pete has put the primacy on USC football on display for the whole nation to see."
Carroll, who has guided the Trojans to a 48-4 record over the past four seasons, combined junior day, an annual event where several prospective high school recruits tour the campus, with Pro Day.
"This is what we were dreaming it would be - just like this," he said.
With about 1,000 fans and recruits in the stands at Cromwell Field, the players took part in several drills including the vertical jump, 40-yard dash, standing long jump, weight lifting and different cone drills.
Then, everyone moved over to Howard Jones Field across the street for more drills.
Bush and Leinart, the last two Heisman Trophy winners who many experts believe will go 1-2 in the draft, were generally satisfied with how they did.
And they were glad the day was over.
"Oh, yeah," Bush said with a smile. "I'm going to take a vacation."
Bush outdid his former teammates in three areas, clocking 4.33 seconds in the 40, recording a 40 1/2-inch vertical jump, and going 10 feet, 8 1/2 inches in the standing broad jump. He had 24 repetitions bench-pressing 225 pounds.
"I would have liked to have run a little faster - I thought I could push a 4.29 out there, a 4.3-flat," he said. "This part of it is just trying to separate yourselves from the pack."
Bush, a runaway winner of the Heisman last season, has already done that.
"There's a lot of guys who are fast," said Baltimore Ravens assistant Mark Carrier, a defensive back at USC from 1986-89. "What makes him special is what he does when he has the ball in his hands. The guy up the street might run 4.2. But there aren't many guys who can do what he can do with the football."
It's been anticipated for months that Bush will go No. 1 in the April 29-30 draft to the Houston Texans. He said he met Saturday night with representatives of the Texans.
"It wasn't anything serious," he said, adding a similar meeting was planned Sunday night with the Tennessee Titans.
Leinart threw around 45 passes and was on-target with almost all of them. Afterward, he spoke of showing his athleticism, ability to throw on the run, and arm strength.
He had a vertical jump of 37 inches, but didn't run the 40.
"They know I'm not a running quarterback - the 40-yard dash for me is pointless," he said.
Steinberg, who has represented eight overall No. 1 selections in the draft, said he wouldn't be surprised if Leinart winds up No. 9.
"This day explodes the myth of heady quarterback with intangibles, cements Matt's status as the franchise quarterback pick at the top of the draft," Steinberg said.
Two potential first-round picks might be heading in opposite directions. Offensive tackle Winston Justice, who weighed in at 320 pounds, had a vertical jump of 39 inches and did 38 repetitions bench-pressing 225 pounds.
"It was like there was air in the bar, no iron," Fassel said, shaking his head.
Running back LenDale White didn't run the 40 because of a sore hamstring, and did 15 reps in the bench-press - only one more than punter Tom Malone. Plus, he weighed in at 244 pounds, which is probably more than what NFL teams want.
"I was surprised," Bush said regarding the fact that White didn't run the 40. "He said he was hurt."
Peep It Yo!
Footballguy
Just back from the SC Pro Day and Leinart really did jump 37 inches. He was impressive and make it look pretty effortless. Funny thing is he looked more concerned with fixing his hair than anything else. Additionally, Bush was UNREAL. His body looked as if it was poured from a mold. He was so cut...he looked like he had on a Batman suit with fake muscles. WOW! His first 40 time also looked pretty effortless. He was flying.White looked pretty unmotivated. Came out with all of the other guys, but didn't look like he was taking it too seriously. Really kind of nonchalant...joking with the other guys, etc. The starter at the 40 called his name and when he didn't come over, the starter went over to talk to him. They had a short conversation and then White shook his head and went all the way to the other side of the field and walked around by himself. What a bummer.
Justice looked HUGE! Was throwing up the weights on the bench press like it was a rag doll. His vertical was impressive too. The crowd was pretty impresed.
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Weiner Dog
Footballguy
Running back LenDale White didn't run the 40 because of a sore hamstring, and did 15 reps in the bench-press - only one more than punter Tom Malone. Plus, he weighed in at 244 pounds, which is probably more than what NFL teams want."I was surprised," Bush said regarding the fact that White didn't run the 40. "He said he was hurt."
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
I was refering to his fight to be the #2 RB off the board.
EBF
Footballguy
I think he definitely was. - White was ranked above Williams by NFL.com's Pat KirwanI dont think he was ever in that fight to begin with.
- White was ranked above Williams by TSN draft guide
- White was ranked above Williams by nfldraft.scout.com (this site is generally pretty connected and their rankings often mirror the consensus that they get rom their league sources)
The main people that I've heard championing Williams as the #2 back are Mel Kiper and Scott Wright (of nfldraftcountdown.com). Few are more connected than Kiper, but Williams is only ranked two spots higher on the "Big Board" than White. Hardly a big difference.
As for Wright, his opinions are worth reading, but he's not a league insider and he tends to let his personal biases shine through his rankings (as opposed to adjusting based on NFL buzz).
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
I expected big numbers from Bush but he definately put to rest any doubt I may have held about his athleticism.
I've been hyping for Winston Justice to Oakland as I did Aaron Brooks. He's definately top ten material. He would be a great fit. Though about 4 or 5 other guys would be too. I'm getting draft fever already.
I've been hyping for Winston Justice to Oakland as I did Aaron Brooks. He's definately top ten material. He would be a great fit. Though about 4 or 5 other guys would be too. I'm getting draft fever already.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The only thing that makes me a little nervous about Justice is the fact that he has played RT. I know that it is because Leinart is a lefty, but I still think that it could be an issue. Maybe as a Bills fan I just still have a bad taste in my mouth from Mike Williams and his similar situation. Justice has much better footwork than Williams though.If I'm the Bills and Ngata, Bunkley and Justice (you could throw in Huff's name too) are all there at #8 I don't even try to pick, I try to trade down into the 11-13 slots and pick up another pick somewhere. But maybe that's just me.so does this put justice in top 10...
assuming davis was off the board, & ARI is on the clock & cutler is available & they like him... but they like justice, too...
who do you pick if you are denny green?
or if you are DET & you could have those two plus your choice of huff...
who do you pick if you are millen...
BUF has pick of ngata, bunkley or justice...
what does marv do...
it looks like there were two beasts at the USC pro day today...
* those numbers must smoke consensus #1 OT ferguson... of course, he has them in the intangibles department... so i don't see justice leapfrogging him... but clearly this could move justice up some team's boards... i'm not sure scouts were prepared for that stupefying a workout...
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Take it with a grain of salt, but ProFootballTalk says that a league source told them that Bush's 40 time was actually a 4.4 hand timed and not a 4.34 electronically timed. 
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Likewise to be taken with a grain of salt, Reggie was disappointed in not breaking into 4.2 range becase he did on Friday on 3 out of 5 attempts. Said it was all a little stressful and he's going to the beach happy with his performance.eta: my niece is at USC and attended the festivities today. I just chatted with her for about an hour. I'll type up some tidbits from her perspective. She says nobody believes LenDale is hurt. He didn't mention it until after his name was called to run the 40. His feelings were hurt because he was laughed at after pushing the bar just 15 times. He's used to the guys ribbing him about not putting his work in in the weightroom, but their laughter was followed by some scouts and big dogs and his entire attitude just went in the crapper.Take it with a grain of salt, but ProFootballTalk says that a league source told them that Bush's 40 time was actually a 4.4 hand timed and not a 4.34 electronically timed.
more to come
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Liquid Tension
Footballguy
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
very
Noticed that myself. Now, maybe they aren't that tight. But that was an interesting way to put it.
jurb26
Footballguy
For some reason Im not finding that nearly as telling as either of you. If the guys aren't really that close, there is a good chance that Bush simply does not know what his health status is. I'm sure both have a lot going on right now and may or may not be hanging out if they are not friends. If this were a coach or a trainer, then I see your point.What I doo find telling is that he apparently came to this thing w/o anyone knowing he was hurt. How the hell does that happen unless it was a late injury?very
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Dave Baker
Damn glad to meet you
Blaylock didn't have the performance on the field that Bush did. So people, myself and Bloom included, are not judging Bush based on today's numbers only. We're judging him based on everything we've seen on the field, heard off the field and have now seen in his workout numbers.Everything is pointing one way.
Also, Bush did a lot more than just run fast. The reps, the vertical, the broad jump, all tell an impressive tale. Lump it in with his performance on the field and it's very hard not to think he'll have tremendous success in the NFL.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Can we all just agree that Reggie Bush has all the physical skills to make it, but we haven't seen him actually be a workhorse? Which is where the concern is. Maybe that's a great thing, less wear and tear on him, maybe it's bad, but either way if there is any debate, it's about whether he can be something he hasn't shown us yet.
Dave Baker
Damn glad to meet you
Bush actually carried the workload in several games, or at least had 20+ carries plus receptions. I understand the concern, but it's borne solely out of his size, or apparent lack therein, as opposed to anything seen on the field.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Not solely from his size for me, but it is a factor.Major difference between "several games" and a 16 game season and career.
I think he'll greatly help his NFL team, but I'm not sure if it's the same as Brian Westbrook does, or Marshall Faulk. Either way, he's a stud. I just wonder how he'll be used.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Leinart first. Espn is reporting he completed a very pedestrian 36 out of 45 passes. remember Young was 45-50 and Cutler 44-45 (in terrible conditions and throwing 20 deep balls). The better numbers are what you expect from a Pro-Day. My niece said he looked terrible at the start. He says he was tight. This validates what I've seen and reported over the past two years, btw. When he tried to throw hard the balls were wild and high. This is exactly what happens in game situations. I honestly believe his heralded accuracy is false and will be his biggest problem in the NFL. All due respect to Bloom, but I cannot say this is a franchise grade QB. It's just a great year for guys like him and Cutler (also not franchise grade) to come into the league and get big checks. He completed two deep balls and he didn't throw the deep out I claim he cannot throw. He started throwing the ball softer and completed a bunch of 10 to 15 yard throws to get his numbers respectable and it was over. She says she heard he spent about a week working on his 40 time, but couldn't get it under 5 seconds so decided not to run. I don't think there is a slower starter in the NFL, that includes Bledsoe and Collins. Yes, he popped an impressive vertical, and he moves around the pocket nicely (excellent footwork all the way around), and he'll scramble into space when necessary, but the overall athleticism, the reactions, the quicks, etc., is substandard for an NFL starter. His inability to throw both hard and accurate being my biggest concern. My .02.
Justice had the place really buzzing. He did finish the 40 limping, and his times were between 5.05 and 5.15 (faster hobbled than 22 of the 28 tackles at the Combine). However, his first 20 was so fast according to one person (maybe a scout, he had a Jets wristband on) that he said Justice can run under 4.7. Wow. She also said it's well known that he is faster than Byrd. Folks, this is the best tackle prospect in the draft. If you want to downgrade him for some intangible question marks fine. D'Brick is solid and impressive in any category you want to discuss, and I have a mancrush on him since listening to his interviews. But realisitically, Justice is the Vernon Davis of tackles. He is a total freak, and he has better technique than Ferguson. He has a highly refined punch that D'Brick has been working on. Justice is the better football player, and I am not worried about any character issues. He is a solid guy, just had a bad break and made a dumb mistake. He was immature, but he grew up fast and handled his punishment like a man. Apparently his cone and shuttle were jaw dropping, and his drills were also exceptional.
Bush is a Texan. 'Nuff said. Trade DD now in your dynasties, because Bush will be a featured back. He is measureably superior to Tomlinson at the same stage. A couple pounds lighter, but stronger and faster, even better hands, moves and vision.
The only other player we discussed was White, and he is mostly who we talked about. She had a class with him, and she loves him. Calls him adorable and a sweetheart. But this may be interesting to some. She says Carroll took some grief for not wanting him to go pro this year, but she agrees with the coach on this one. Here's why. She's studying children's psyche and offerred the following analogy. Sometimes teachers will gently advise parents that their first grader should repeat the first grade over maturity issues. There's no learning disability, just a personality that hasn't developed enough for the rigors of the 2nd grade. Move the kid ahead if you want, but he will struggle and studies show the struggles continue all the way through high school and you end up with a student who is always in the bottom of his class scholastically. Let him repeat the 1st grade and he becomes an academic leader and it stays with him through high school. It's a better life for the kid, and no shame to take an extra year to mature. LenDale is similar. He needs more time to mature. He just doesn't take this stuff very seriously. It all comes so easy for him, and he's so productive on the field that he's not sold on the notion that he has to work hard to be great. One scout mumbled that he's a fat slob. Now, my bro who played RB at SC briefly (knees ended him before he got started) in the early 70s was in on this conversation and he disagreed. He thinks RBs can be immature. They have the easiest learning curve and rely on ability more than anything else. You decide.
Justice had the place really buzzing. He did finish the 40 limping, and his times were between 5.05 and 5.15 (faster hobbled than 22 of the 28 tackles at the Combine). However, his first 20 was so fast according to one person (maybe a scout, he had a Jets wristband on) that he said Justice can run under 4.7. Wow. She also said it's well known that he is faster than Byrd. Folks, this is the best tackle prospect in the draft. If you want to downgrade him for some intangible question marks fine. D'Brick is solid and impressive in any category you want to discuss, and I have a mancrush on him since listening to his interviews. But realisitically, Justice is the Vernon Davis of tackles. He is a total freak, and he has better technique than Ferguson. He has a highly refined punch that D'Brick has been working on. Justice is the better football player, and I am not worried about any character issues. He is a solid guy, just had a bad break and made a dumb mistake. He was immature, but he grew up fast and handled his punishment like a man. Apparently his cone and shuttle were jaw dropping, and his drills were also exceptional.
Bush is a Texan. 'Nuff said. Trade DD now in your dynasties, because Bush will be a featured back. He is measureably superior to Tomlinson at the same stage. A couple pounds lighter, but stronger and faster, even better hands, moves and vision.
The only other player we discussed was White, and he is mostly who we talked about. She had a class with him, and she loves him. Calls him adorable and a sweetheart. But this may be interesting to some. She says Carroll took some grief for not wanting him to go pro this year, but she agrees with the coach on this one. Here's why. She's studying children's psyche and offerred the following analogy. Sometimes teachers will gently advise parents that their first grader should repeat the first grade over maturity issues. There's no learning disability, just a personality that hasn't developed enough for the rigors of the 2nd grade. Move the kid ahead if you want, but he will struggle and studies show the struggles continue all the way through high school and you end up with a student who is always in the bottom of his class scholastically. Let him repeat the 1st grade and he becomes an academic leader and it stays with him through high school. It's a better life for the kid, and no shame to take an extra year to mature. LenDale is similar. He needs more time to mature. He just doesn't take this stuff very seriously. It all comes so easy for him, and he's so productive on the field that he's not sold on the notion that he has to work hard to be great. One scout mumbled that he's a fat slob. Now, my bro who played RB at SC briefly (knees ended him before he got started) in the early 70s was in on this conversation and he disagreed. He thinks RBs can be immature. They have the easiest learning curve and rely on ability more than anything else. You decide.
Dave Baker
Damn glad to meet you
It's a viable concern, but the reason I state it is solely because of his size is because nobody has the same concerns about White despite the fact that White had less carries than Bush this year, and I believe in their respective USC careers.And watching him play, I was amazed, especially this year, how he started hitting people like Walter Payton did right before he was tackled. He turned towards the defender and gave up more than he took. Bush is much stronger than people give him credit, as evidenced by the propensity so many have in stating he can't carry a full load (note, you did not state that, but others have).
Kai's Hero
Footballguy
You'reHe is still too small and fragile though... built like a WR and cant make it at the next level as an every down RB.....If these numbers hold up, they are truly amazing. Any one of them would be great. Together ther are outstanding. I don't think anyone has ever done 24 reps on the bench with his speed and jumping ability. Those things are usually mutually exclusive.Wow...been doing spring projects outside all day, came in and saw these numbers.
Englishteacher
Footballguy
Yeah, but just read his injury history :X from college until now. I'll get back with you next year when you finish it.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Dave, I really can't disagree with anything you say; this is why I say the downside of Bush is Blaylock. It is not a perfect science as guys who have had great college careers and great combine workouts have bombed in the NFL and there is always a chance, even if remote that it happens with anyone, including Bush, in the future.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I agree with Fubar. The part that people underestimate by a huge margin is that the pounding from big, fast and strong pro players over a 16 game schedule is so much more demanding than college. The people that say the best college team could beat the worst NFL team are people who have never played competitive sports at a high level. The weakest pro team would destroy the best college football team.
Tau837
Footballguy
I realize this is a bit off topic, but all of this makes Manny Lawson's numbers even more impressive, at least to me:Bench: 23 reps40 Yard Dash: 4.43Vertical Jump: 39½Broad Jump: 10-foot-4Three-cone: 6.90Short Shuttle: 4.18Long Shuttle: 11.08All from a 6'5" 265 lb defensive end.
Englishteacher
Footballguy
Running back LenDale White didn't run the 40 because of a sore hamstring, and did 15 reps in the bench-press - only one more than punter Tom Malone. Plus, he weighed in at 244 pounds, which is probably more than what NFL teams want.
"I was surprised," Bush said regarding the fact that White didn't run the 40. "He said he was hurt."
Rut Ro Raggy!
"I was surprised," Bush said regarding the fact that White didn't run the 40. "He said he was hurt."
Rut Ro Raggy!
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I don't see how White can be picked in the 1st round? The lack of heart issue would be enough for me to let someone else take the risk? To me it is the rsik management part that makes me walk away from LW
See my comments above
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Lawson weighed 241 at the combine. Still he's a freak.I realize this is a bit off topic, but all of this makes Manny Lawson's numbers even more impressive, at least to me:
Bench: 23 reps
40 Yard Dash: 4.43
Vertical Jump: 39½
Broad Jump: 10-foot-4
Three-cone: 6.90
Short Shuttle: 4.18
Long Shuttle: 11.08
All from a 6'5" 265 lb defensive end.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Scroll down and take a look at Tomlinson when he was a little older than Reggie. A common error is to compare a rookie to a 5 year vet in size and stature. Bush is a hard worker. He'll beef up just like LT did. I would argue Reggie's legs are more powerful today than LT's were back then. I really really think LT is the best compare to Reggie, not Faulk, or Westbrook. Bush today = Tomlinson Spring of 01...
I don't think Bush needs to be a feature back in the traditional sense to be able to rack up huge numbers anyways. Faulk did get a good number of carries a few years during his Indy days, but in St Louis he never got more than 260 carries. His value was in his awesome efficiency with those carries, and his receiving ability. And of course his incredible vision at the goal line that allowed him to score at will. Whether Bush can handle 320 carries remains to be seen, but he doesn't necessarily need to get that many to be a top RB...even the best in the game.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Have to disgaree with you here. LT2 was an inch shorter than Bush and 10 pounds heavier coming out of college. LT2's legs would get my nod for strength. I think the Faulk (or Clinton Portis) comps or more accurate than LT2 and that is based on the body type. The odds that Reggie Bush will pack on 20 pounds and get to LT2's weight are 1000-1
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Bush measured 5-10 and 7/8ths. He weighed 201.Tomlinson measured 5-10 and 3/4ths. He weighed 205.
eta: those #s are from respective combine cattle calls...
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Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Anybody catch Chow on sportscenter? I'm not certain, but I think I heard him say this about Leinart: "I love the kid. I loved working with him. But I don't know how this will go. This is business now."
Something like that. Probably not worth reading too much into it. I read at another site that Chow rates them: Leinart, Cutler, Young. But Fisher and the personnel execs are still torn between all three, leaning Young.
Something like that. Probably not worth reading too much into it. I read at another site that Chow rates them: Leinart, Cutler, Young. But Fisher and the personnel execs are still torn between all three, leaning Young.
Hunterbeer
Footballguy
NFL.com has this entirely backwards. Electronic timing does NOT add to the actual time -- that is just absurd. Also, it appears as though NFL.com does not know the difference between tenths and hundredths of a second, but let's just skip that. What it does is stop the human timing errors that allow fictious 4.2s to be run. One should ADD .15- .20 to all hand held times to get an actual time (and to compare to track stars). In this case, only half was electronic, so one should add about .1, at least. That is still flying. (Remember, you have to add at least that much to all the other Pro Day times as well.)For a little perspective, the chemically enhanced Ben Johnson, the fastest starter in track history, ran the second fastest 100 in history and his first 40 was 4.26. Maurice Green, who went 9.78, was either 4.26 as well or 4.24 -- I have seen both. All these guys do is sprint and train to sprint. Reggie Bush went out and did an outstanding job on everything and showed just under world class speed with a fraction of the training.from nfl.com
Does the bold mean Reggie's time is really a 4.25??
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
According to this, 4.5. I'm not sure how reliable it is though.http://www.wzzm13.com/sports/pro_football/...x?storyid=49974
