Vaccine Mandate For Companies - How Will It Work? (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

I'm sure this has been talked about a lot in other places but it feels like it could use it's own thread.

In the last week, the intensity of the talk on Employers madating vaccine.

I know I can google, but I trust you more. Can you folks that have knowledge of this, lay out how this will work?

The basics I hear (and I'm sure I'm not getting all the story) is any employer with more than 100 employees will face big fines if they have employees who are not vaccinated. 

Is that right?

How will this work practically?

What kind of exemptions?

How will it be enforced?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

My company is letting people work from home if they choose.  If you’re not vaccinated and are asked to go to the office for a meeting you have to show a negative covid test within the last 24 hours.  Everyone at the office regardless of vaccination status must wear a mask. 
 

I don’t see how the enforcement of fines will work but it will pretty much guarantee the Dems get destroyed in 2022 too

 

[supermike80]

My Company started this a few weeks ago.  They got copies of everyones vax cards(if they have them) and for those that dont they have scheduled Fridays to test the rest.   Not sure yet on how they are enforcing this though

 

[The Commish]

I'm sure this has been talked about a lot in other places but it feels like it could use it's own thread.

In the last week, the intensity of the talk on Employers madating vaccine.

I know I can google, but I trust you more. Can you folks that have knowledge of this, lay out how this will work?

The basics I hear (and I'm sure I'm not getting all the story) is any employer with more than 100 employees will face big fines if they have employees who are not vaccinated. 

Is that right?

How will this work practically?

What kind of exemptions?

How will it be enforced?

I doubt they've thought it through in terms of enforcement, but the basics are employees have two choices.  Get the shot or get tested every week.  I don't know why they'd need to carve out exemptions in that scenario.  I think it will be left up to the company how to keep track of that.  It would likely be something dumped on HR at larger companies.  At smaller ones it's likely something that can be taken care of via vaccine documents and negative test results.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I doubt they've thought it through in terms of enforcement, but the basics are employees have two choices.  Get the shot or get tested every week.  

Thanks. So if someone doesn't want to get the vaccine, they have to be tested weekly? Has this been determined who will pay for the testing?

 

[Joe Bryant]

And to make sure I have it right, the focus is on the employer.

If I had 100+ employees, the government is going to fine me, the employer if I have unvaccinated employees that aren't being tested weekly. In other words, the government will be looking to the employer. And the employer will be looking to the employee?

 

[supermike80]

Thanks. So if someone doesn't want to get the vaccine, they have to be tested weekly? Has this been determined who will pay for the testing?

My company does it and pays for it.   Not sure whats in the mandate but they do it.  They keep a database of all those who require testing due to no vax card.

 

[DropKick]

Working remotely these days but have been asked for a "voluntary" vax status. 

None of their business. 

 

[AAABatteries]

We were given a financial incentive to upload a copy of our vaccination card.  Score!

 

[whoknew]

Working remotely these days but have been asked for a "voluntary" vax status. 

None of their business. 

1) I reckon they can figure it out from your response.

2) I would argue it very much is their business to know whether their employees are vaccinated or not.

 

[AAABatteries]

And to make sure I have it right, the focus is on the employer.

If I had 100+ employees, the government is going to fine me, the employer if I have unvaccinated employees that aren't being tested weekly. In other words, the government will be looking to the employer. And the employer will be looking to the employee?

That is my understanding- the mandate is with the employer so I think they have to show compliance.  It rolls downhill so the employer will require action by the employee.

 

[The Commish]

Thanks. So if someone doesn't want to get the vaccine, they have to be tested weekly? Has this been determined who will pay for the testing?

Well, for now, it's on the federal dime aka "free".  Once the worst is over, I suspect testing like this will be handled like testing for other things and run through insurance, but I can't say for sure.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Well, for now, it's on the federal dime aka "free".  Once the worst is over, I suspect testing like this will be handled like testing for other things and run through insurance, but I can't say for sure.

Interesting, thanks.

So the employer could say there is no cost involved to them? 

They have the options of:

Employees are vaccinated 

or

Employees take and pass a free COVID test weekly?

 

[The Commish]

Interesting, thanks.

So the employer could say there is no cost involved to them? 

They have the options of:

Employees are vaccinated 

or

Employees take and pass a free COVID test weekly?

I'd say that's accurate based on what we know so far.  Personally, if I were pulling all the switches and levers, I'd stop the "free" testing if you can't show you've been vaccinated already or can't be vaccinated for some medical reason.  It's time to start a transition of cost to individuals since this is an individual choice and all.  That's for a different thread though.

 

[The General]

My company is about 900 people and we received an update that the policy is being reviewed, nothing else yet.

For us up to this point to incentivize getting vaxed there was a payment, the shot covered health benchmarks for the year that give lowered insurance cost (these are voluntary things you can do to get your health insurance lowered - typical year it’s like 5 different things) and you didn’t have to be masked (this only lasted a month or so).

I think this article does a good job of explaining the numbers game - at least the perspective of the people pushing this

I am not sure how companies will be communicating with the government on tracking or penalties. HR and legal departments probably very busy. 

 

[Osaurus]

My company is a federal contractor. Initially, they asked for date(s) of vaccination if employees had one. The second round was proof (scan) of CDC vax card. I think there’s a few weeks left for that. After that, they are following up with employees that did not respond in any way. Terminations are possible and likely after that date, but I would imagine it’s going to be a small percentage of folks. Obviously exemptions from vaccination have to be fully documented and submitted. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

My company is about 900 people and we received an update that the policy is being reviewed, nothing else yet.

For us up to this point to incentivize getting vaxed there was a payment, the shot covered health benchmarks for the year that give lowered insurance cost (these are voluntary things you can do to get your health insurance lowered - typical year it’s like 5 different things) and you didn’t have to be masked (this only lasted a month or so).

I think this article does a good job of explaining the numbers game - at least the perspective of the people pushing this

I am not sure how companies will be communicating with the government on tracking or penalties. HR and legal departments probably very busy. 

Thanks. From the article, looks there is still much question about who pays for the tests.

It states that relevant employers are required to provide for weekly testing of unvaccinated workers, but that they may bill workers for those tests. Violations can result in hefty fines.

That's pretty signifcant.

For lots of jobs saying, "You can either be vaccinated or pay $100 a week for your test and test negative", that's dramatically different from "You can either be vaccinated or take a free test and test negative".

 

[The General]

Thanks. From the article, looks there is still much question about who pays for the tests.

That's pretty signifcant.

For lots of jobs saying, "You can either be vaccinated or pay $100 a week for your test and test negative", that's dramatically different from "You can either be vaccinated or take a free test and test negative".

Agreed. That is a big price tag. I don’t see companies paying for this.

The cost for a company to track this, document is also probably significant. That would be on the company to pay I’d think. 

 

[Enderdog]

How does this survive the first Equal Protection Clause claim?  There's not a lot of difference between businesses with 99 and 101 employees.

 

[the moops]

How does this survive the first Equal Protection Clause claim?  There's not a lot of difference between businesses with 99 and 101 employees.

OSHA has different record keeping rules and inspection requirements for companies with 10 or fewer employees. Not a lot of difference between 10 and 11 either, but this rule has survived

 

[Insomniac]

My company gave us the option of vaccine and a$500 bonus or termination. I knew 3 people who were not vaccinated. One got it, one apparently quit before the deadline, and the other was just gone a few weeks after the deadline.

 

[The Commish]

For lots of jobs saying, "You can either be vaccinated or pay $100 a week for your test and test negative", that's dramatically different from "You can either be vaccinated or take a free test and test negative".

If the government stops providing tests as they are now, it would cost you $50 a month for your testing.

 

[dkp993]

My company has about 1000 employees across 5 states.  We, the executive team, were on a call on Friday discussing exactly this topic.  No real answers came from it as we have philosophical differences of opinions and logistical obstacles to overcome.  This will not be easy or end well.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

If the government stops providing tests as they are now, it would cost you $50 a month for your testing.

Is there any clarity on where it is now? Even at $50 a month, that's significant for tons of people. If it's free, that's significant. 

Seems like it's all over the map. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

How does this survive the first Equal Protection Clause claim?  There's not a lot of difference between businesses with 99 and 101 employees.

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[The Commish]

Is there any clarity on where it is now? Even at $50 a month, that's significant for tons of people. If it's free, that's significant. 

Seems like it's all over the map. 

Not sure what your question is.  Right now any person can get a test any time they want and dont have to pay for it

 

[Phil Elliott]

And to make sure I have it right, the focus is on the employer.

If I had 100+ employees, the government is going to fine me, the employer if I have unvaccinated employees that aren't being tested weekly. In other words, the government will be looking to the employer. And the employer will be looking to the employee?

There is a report that OSHA is also looking at expanding the mandate to companies with 100 or less employees also. We will see if they go that far.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Mentioned in another thread but a Court of Appeals has put a temporary stay on this as it's being challenged by some states.

My company has put out emails the they're monitoring what's required. People are free to WFH or go in the office. Masks are optional.

 

[Joe Bryant]

There is a report that OSHA is also looking at expanding the mandate to companies with 100 or less employees also. We will see if they go that far.

Thanks. Do you have a link? Is there another threshold that's lower or would it just effectively be for every company?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Not sure what your question is.  Right now any person can get a test any time they want and dont have to pay for it

Thanks. I did not know that. I have a friend who said it was a significant thing that his company was no longer paying for the tests that are required for unvaccinated employees and would be making the employees pay for them and I assumed that was widespread. I've had a couple of tests and didn't have to pay but I assumed it was my insurance paying for it. 

 

[The Commish]

Thanks. I did not know that. I have a friend who said it was a significant thing that his company was no longer paying for the tests that are required for unvaccinated employees and would be making the employees pay for them and I assumed that was widespread. I've had a couple of tests and didn't have to pay but I assumed it was my insurance paying for it. 

As of today, anyone who wants a test can get one.  Of course, at some point that will change, but for now, we don't pay out of pocket.  They do try to run as many through insurance as possible, but even those with little/no insurance aren't paying for them.  If they are, they are getting scammed.  

 

[Cowboysfan8]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/11/06/world/americas/biden-osha-vaccine-mandate-blocked.amp.html

 

[rustycolts]

As of today, anyone who wants a test can get one.  Of course, at some point that will change, but for now, we don't pay out of pocket.  They do try to run as many through insurance as possible, but even those with little/no insurance aren't paying for them.  If they are, they are getting scammed.  

Guess I got scammed then it cost me 50 bucks at my doctor's office. I have no insurance to expensive. Get medicare Dec 1st thank goodness. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Guess I got scammed then it cost me 50 bucks at my doctor's office. I have no insurance to expensive. Get medicare Dec 1st thank goodness. 

Holy crap - $50.  I thought all testing was free.

 

[rustycolts]

Holy crap - $50.  I thought all testing was free.

I think it was because I went to Dr's office instead of state run site. Oh and I just remembered my whole family went theirs were free. Mine cost because I wanted a rapid result. Rapid result came back same time as the rest of the family. I remember thinking that was a waste of 50 bucks.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Holy crap - $50.  I thought all testing was free.

Pretty sure it is if you tell them you have symptoms 

 

[Phil Elliott]

Thanks. Do you have a link? Is there another threshold that's lower or would it just effectively be for every company?

OSHA considering expanding vax mandate to companies with under 100 employees

"OSHA is confident that employers with 100 or more employees have the administrative capacity to implement the standard’s requirements promptly, but is less confident that smaller employers can do so without undue disruption," the summary says. "OSHA needs additional time to assess the capacity of smaller employers, and is seeking comment to help the agency make that determination."

 

[The Commish]

Guess I got scammed then it cost me 50 bucks at my doctor's office. I have no insurance to expensive. Get medicare Dec 1st thank goodness. 

That stinks!!  Walgreens is your friend rusty. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Holy crap - $50.  I thought all testing was free.

I assumed the regular "test each week to see if you have it" often times was not free.

Only because I've heard people upset that the testing that was free had gone to not being free.

In one case, the business was intentionally using that as leverage to get more people to take the vaccine. I talked to someone on staff and they said the idea was to take away the free testing and make it more difficult and painful for the employees hoping to motivate them to get vaccinated. The person I talked thought it was a great idea. 

But I don't know for sure how it is everywhere. 

 

[rustycolts]

I recently went back to work at Publix a couple days a week. I've basically turned into a caregiver for my wife and special needs daughter(not that I'm complaining)so working at Publix gives me a much needed break every week.Plus I can buy more stock in the company.

Anyway Publix at first let us go maskless if we could show we were vaccinated. They changed that and required all associates to wear masks. I really don't mind that plus I would say at least half the customers are wearing masks. The company has not said anything about the vaccine mandates yet. Hopefully DeSantis and the state Legislature can help prevent this unconstitutional action taking place.

Publix and most retail outlets will be hit hard by this because the majority of the associates are young people who face very minimal risk. So they may quit rather than take the vaccine. This would really exasperated an already precarious staffing situation. 

Just hoping our elected leaders can prevent this and we can remain the free state of Florida.

 

[nysfl2]

As far as enforcement, OSHA normally checks on companies in one of two ways:

- employee complaints, and
- random inspections

OSHA has nowhere near the staff they'd need to check any significant % of companies in the US, so very few random inspections actually ever take place. So companies likely would only get into trouble if one of their employees called in the violation.

In general, unless you kill someone, OSHA's fines tend to be relatively small, as well. Corporate reputation tends to be a bigger driver for compliance than actually avoiding OSHA citations.

 

[supermike80]

As far as enforcement, OSHA normally checks on companies in one of two ways:

- employee complaints, and
- random inspections

OSHA has nowhere near the staff they'd need to check any significant % of companies in the US, so very few random inspections actually ever take place. So companies likely would only get into trouble if one of their employees called in the violation.

In general, unless you kill someone, OSHA's fines tend to be relatively small, as well. Corporate reputation tends to be a bigger driver for compliance than actually avoiding OSHA citations.

Yeah well what is even more disturbing about leveraging OSHA is I am willing to bet covid is going to get priority for at least a while...which means much more serious issues will be missed due to lack or resources.  

 

[the moops]

Yeah well what is even more disturbing about leveraging OSHA is I am willing to bet covid is going to get priority for at least a while...which means much more serious issues will be missed due to lack or resources.  

There are still 1500 people a day dying from this. I am trying to imagine a more serious OSHA infraction that would cause more harm but am coming up empty

 

[supermike80]

There are still 1500 people a day dying from this. I am trying to imagine a more serious OSHA infraction that would cause more harm but am coming up empty

Yep..This is what I mean.  COVID only.  Nothing else matters.

 

[Navin Johnson]

I assumed the regular "test each week to see if you have it" often times was not free.

Only because I've heard people upset that the testing that was free had gone to not being free.

In one case, the business was intentionally using that as leverage to get more people to take the vaccine. I talked to someone on staff and they said the idea was to take away the free testing and make it more difficult and painful for the employees hoping to motivate them to get vaccinated. The person I talked thought it was a great idea. 

But I don't know for sure how it is everywhere. 

In Bavaria, where most things are covered, COVID testing is no longer paid for by the state.  Some extenuating circumstances can get you a work around, but you are looking at paying 65-100 EU for an 'official' test, ie, one that can get you on an airplane to the US, etc.

Friend of mine just upgraded to business class for 600 EU, FRA-LAX, flights are back to 1/3 full

 

[The Commish]

Yep..This is what I mean.  COVID only.  Nothing else matters.

What pressing issue/situation out there do you feel is getting pushed to the side because "covid only"?

 

[supermike80]

What pressing issue/situation out there do you feel is getting pushed to the side because "covid only"?

I don't know yet now do I.  This has not gone into place yet.    And I am hoping it never does.  Glad to see the courts at least put a pause on this

 

[The Commish]

I don't know yet now do I.  This has not gone into place yet.    And I am hoping it never does.  Glad to see the courts at least put a pause on this

Whether this rule is in place or not has no bearing at all on the list of other issues you feel are being ignored because the issue of covid is the only think on OSHA's mind.  I'm looking for "X" in statement "If we only focus on covid, issues like 'X' are going to get swept under the rug and cause a ton of problems for my company".  

Example:  "I can't believe hospitals are shutting down critical care because of covid.  It's going to cause cancer patients to miss treatments and complicate their situations more" is something we'd hear in the medical community.  I'm curious what OSHA related things are of that sort of concern to you.

 

[supermike80]

Whether this rule is in place or not has no bearing at all on the list of other issues you feel are being ignored because the issue of covid is the only think on OSHA's mind.  I'm looking for "X" in statement "If we only focus on covid, issues like 'X' are going to get swept under the rug and cause a ton of problems for my company".  

Example:  "I can't believe hospitals are shutting down critical care because of covid.  It's going to cause cancer patients to miss treatments and complicate their situations more" is something we'd hear in the medical community.  I'm curious what OSHA related things are of that sort of concern to you.

  There is no way I can answer that.  Will OSHA dedicate a lot of time and energy to this?   And in that case possibly ignore safety violations at a chemical plant for instance?  I can't say.  I don't know how seriously this will be taken.

 

[The Commish]

  There is no way I can answer that.  Will OSHA dedicate a lot of time and energy to this?   And in that case possibly ignore safety violations at a chemical plant for instance?  I can't say.  I don't know how seriously this will be taken.

It's your framing, not mine.  The assertion that "nothing else matters" means just that right?  So, I'm asking, if true, what are the pressing things in your view that are going to get pushed to the wayside that will likely cause 1600+ deaths a day.  That was moops original point.  If your point is that you're concerned that a ton of chemical plant violations will go unaddressed or that they are all of a sudden going to start cutting corners at nuclear power plants, then that's fine.  Just wondering what your concerns are here.