What Are Companies Doing About Vaccine Mandates? (1 Viewer)

[Rich Conway]

I should have said leftist will cross over to the level of evil to enforce anything that goes against their value system. 

Fair enough.  I disagree with you on it, but at least that makes more sense.

 

[Max Power]

This is funny that there are conniptions there.  On the contractor side it's pretty simple.  Our place either has 100% compliance or we can''t work on many federal contracts, which would close the doors.  So at the deadline unvaxxed folks will be put on 6 weeks unpaid leave and if they still don't get the shot they are deemed to have chosen to resign.  Hard deadline, no extensions.

The Feds are putting a gun to our heads.

Technically they are putting a gun to your company's head. Making the company itself do the dirty work and the government's hands are clean.  It's shameful. 

When the government has to do its own dirty work, all those pesky regulations start getting in the way. The government can't mandate a person takes a shot under an EUA.  So the punishment aspect gets wonky. 

 

[Max Power]

Some dude at a company I deal with is selling fake vaccine cards and doing a good business.  Wondering what will happen if he gets caught.

I think it up to 5 years in prison or a 21-game suspension

 

[Chaz McNulty]

I should have said leftist will cross over to the level of evil to enforce anything that goes against their value system. 

hmmm.  Mandating a vaccination.  Storming the capital to try and delay the transfer of power in a democratic election.

I think if you asked someone (outside your circle of friends) which they considered more evil, the answer might surprise you.

 

[Max Power]

hmmm.  Mandating a vaccination.  Storming the capital to try and delay the transfer of power in a democratic election.

I think if you asked someone (outside your circle of friends) which they considered more evil, the answer might surprise you.

You seem to have missed all the details in that conversation.  Or taken them out of context knowingly. 

One person is taking away an earned pension after another person retires for not complying.  The other is an instance of attending a rally/protest. 

One is clearly way more evil and I question the mindset of someone who can't see that. 

 

[Prinefan]

You seem to have missed all the details in that conversation.  Or taken them out of context knowingly. 

One person is taking away an earned pension after another person retires for not complying.  The other is an instance of attending a rally/protest. 

One is clearly way more evil and I question the mindset of someone who can't see that. 

Look in a mirror sometime.  You always drastically slant the actual facts to fit your narrative.  

 

[Max Power]

Look in a mirror sometime.  You always drastically slant the actual facts to fit your narrative.  

What did I misrepresent? 

 

[Chaz McNulty]

You seem to have missed all the details in that conversation.  Or taken them out of context knowingly. 

One person is taking away an earned pension after another person retires for not complying.  The other is an instance of attending a rally/protest. 

One is clearly way more evil and I question the mindset of someone who can't see that. 

One group is trying to create a civil war.  The other group is trying to get everyone onboard with taking a vaccination that could save humanity.

See.  We can both play that game.

 

[squistion]

Conservative radio show host Dan Bongino gives an ultimatum to Cumulus Radio (the company that carries his show on hundreds of stations) over their vaccine mandate for employees:

"You can have me or you can have the mandate. But you can't have both of us."

https://twitter.com/TheFirstonTV/status/1450140856120446976 (video clip at link)

 

[Snotbubbles]

One group is trying to create a civil war.  The other group is trying to get everyone onboard with taking a vaccination that could save humanity.

See.  We can both play that game.

Holy hyperbole.  Save humanity?  You have a 98% of surviving COVID if you get it.  I think humanity will survive with or without a vaccine.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Holy hyperbole.  Save humanity?  You have a 98% of surviving COVID if you get it.  I think humanity will survive with or without a vaccine.

You are correct.  Me and Max Power were playing the hyperbole game.  I was doing it intentionally, but he wasn't aware that he was doing it.

 

[Max Power]

You are correct.  Me and Max Power were playing the hyperbole game.  I was doing it intentionally, but he wasn't aware that he was doing it.

Nah, you just missed the point entirely. 

 

[The Commish]

Some dude at a company I deal with is selling fake vaccine cards and doing a good business.  Wondering what will happen if he gets caught.

Forging federal seals is a felony.  There are two on my vaccine card.

 

[Roger Sterling]

Conservative radio show host Dan Bongino gives an ultimatum to Cumulus Radio (the company that carries his show on hundreds of stations) over their vaccine mandate for employees:

"You can have me or you can have the mandate. But you can't have both of us."

https://twitter.com/TheFirstonTV/status/1450140856120446976 (video clip at link)

Masters in the art of self-owns these guys are.

 

[ren hoek]

I think she fits the bill.  Leftist are willing to fight anything that goes against their value system.  This is another example. 

You could say that for just about anyone in politics.  Anyway I follow a bunch of leftists on twitter and they all seem to agree Lightfoot is astoundingly corrupt and like a third term of Rahm Emanuel.  

 

[JAA]

Threatening to take someone's pension away- people who grinded out decades for it and could simply walk away in retirement like any other unvaccinated civilian- seems crazy to me.  I got the vaccine myself in the summer, but I really don't like where this is going at all.

Part of the problem that doesn't seem to get talked about a lot is the fact people have lost trust in medical institutions.  Healthcare is a racket in this country, everybody knows it.  These pharmaceutical corporations are making a killing.  The Biden admin, for its part, still won't release IP waivers so that countries like Venezuela can manufacture the vaccine cheaply.  What kind of message does that send?  It makes it look like their incentive is profits, not public health.  

Here we are in the middle of a pandemic, what kind of effort have these institutions made to regain people's trust?  None.  Instead, we just act like "anti-vaxxers" are crazy or stupid, and push to censor them on public forums.  Add in the fact that the way people engage in debate about the vaccine is soooo obnoxious.  Nobody ever had their mind changed by a smug liberal acting like they're crazy or stupid.  Then there's Trump-centric people posting memes correlating the vaccine stuff to Jews being forced to wear the Star of David.  The whole vaccine debate is just an insufferable culture war anymore, I understand why people have checked out completely.

I really think if the vaccine came out before the 2020 election- when COVID was hugely politicized in both directions, which is also part of the problem- we might have just seen the shoe on the other foot regarding who the 'anti-vaxxers' were.  

Biden is waaaaaaay in bed with Big Pharma

 

[lod001]

The mandate garbage is collapsing as the intelligent Americans are putting an end to bidens' garbage. Chicago 1st responders have called the mayor's bluff. Airlines are turning on biden. The guy is a complete disaster. 

 

[tonydead]

The mandate garbage is collapsing as the intelligent Americans are putting an end to bidens' garbage. Chicago 1st responders have called the mayor's bluff. Airlines are turning on biden. The guy is a complete disaster. 

3200 police officers, one third of Chicago's force, is going to be on the outs because of the mandate.  Good luck on those inner city drive by mass shooting numbers.  

 

[HellToupee]

3200 police officers, one third of Chicago's force, is going to be on the outs because of the mandate.  Good luck on those inner city drive by mass shooting numbers.  

Here in MA we have 300 state troopers and 1400 correction officers unvaccinated . What could go wrong

 

[Biff84]

Conservative radio show host Dan Bongino gives an ultimatum to Cumulus Radio (the company that carries his show on hundreds of stations) over their vaccine mandate for employees:

"You can have me or you can have the mandate. But you can't have both of us."

https://twitter.com/TheFirstonTV/status/1450140856120446976 (video clip at link)

Yet he’s on Fox and not calling them out. I bet he’s vaccinated and just this is just an ego move.

 

[The Football Freak]

Looks like the Supreme Court has let their feeling be known about the mandates. They are letting them go forward.

The US Supreme Court on Tuesday refused to stop a state-imposed COVID-19 vaccine mandate for health care workers in Maine

It’s not surprising—I mean, we’ve all been to school, and therefore dealing with these types of “mandates” our whole lives—but at least now we know how the SC feels about the subject. I wonder if this will sway any conservatives.

 

[tonydead]

Some dude at a company I deal with is selling fake vaccine cards and doing a good business.  Wondering what will happen if he gets caught.

Forging federal seals is a felony.  There are two on my vaccine card.

Yeah, I know this is all BS, but don't do that.  I remember everyone back in the day getting fake IDs to get into bars underage.  Well the one poor girl that got caught that they decided to make an example of will never get a passport and never be able to leave the country.  Don't mess with government documentation forgery.  

 

[Max Power]

Looks like the Supreme Court has let their feeling be known about the mandates. They are letting them go forward.

The US Supreme Court on Tuesday refused to stop a state-imposed COVID-19 vaccine mandate for health care workers in Maine

It’s not surprising—I mean, we’ve all been to school, and therefore dealing with these types of “mandates” our whole lives—but at least now we know how the SC feels about the subject. I wonder if this will sway any conservatives.

It would be more legit if the fda approved version of the vaccine was actually available. People turning down the EUA version are within their right to and shouldnt be fired. 

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Just take the damn injection or we'll destroy your livelihood and take away your pension! 

Because we care.

 

[the moops]

It would be more legit if the fda approved version of the vaccine was actually available. People turning down the EUA version are within their right to and shouldnt be fired. 

The FDA approved version of the vaccine is different than the emergency one?

 

[Max Power]

The FDA approved version of the vaccine is different than the emergency one?

"Legally distinct" 

The Pfizer BioNtech vaccine is still being administered under the EUA. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Wait, so Lori tells police officers to get the shot.  They turn around and say "I have full pension, I'm out".  At that point she will yank their pensions because they didn't get the shot before they leave?

Absolutely astounding. 

That is pretty unbelievable - I'm very pro vaccine and have no issue with companies having mandates but that is ridiculous.

 

[Biff84]

"Legally distinct" 

The Pfizer BioNtech vaccine is still being administered under the EUA. 

Not true. Only ages 12-15 are still under EUA because they don’t have enough data yet. There is no physical or legal difference, they just gave it a brand name. The FDA approved the vaccine based on the safety and efficacy of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine. They approved the formulation of the drug, not the specific name. Pfizer can call it whatever they want so long as it’s the same formulation it’s FDA approved.

 

[Herb]

but at least now we know how the SC feels about the subject. I wonder if this will sway any conservatives.

Sway them to what? I think we've seen how a lot of conservatives in this country "sway" and I'm not eager to watch them storming the Supreme Court building to stop a ruling.

 

[Max Power]

Not true. Only ages 12-15 are still under EUA because they don’t have enough data yet. There is no physical or legal difference, they just gave it a brand name. The FDA approved the vaccine based on the safety and efficacy of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine. They approved the formulation of the drug, not the specific name. Pfizer can call it whatever they want so long as it’s the same formulation it’s FDA approved.

It isnt. Anyone receiving the Pfizer vaccine today is receiving it under the EUA. 

Pfizer Biontech is not fully FDA approved. Comirnaty is, but cominaty is not available in the us. The two drugs are also legally different even if they do share the same formulation. 

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I'm pro vax but anti mandate. However if someone is concerned about the FDA approval, the approval for the formula should suffice - not the brand name. 

 

[The Commish]

It isnt. Anyone receiving the Pfizer vaccine today is receiving it under the EUA. 

Pfizer Biontech is not fully FDA approved. Comirnaty is, but cominaty is not available in the us. The two drugs are also legally different even if they do share the same formulation. 

In terms of practicality, what meaningful difference do you see between the brand name drug and what people in the US are receiving that you feel the need to make the distinction?  Just curious...TIA.

 

[Max Power]

I'm pro vax but anti mandate. However if someone is concerned about the FDA approval, the approval for the formula should suffice - not the brand name. 

I mean the approved version should be available too. It isnt and there is no timeline for a release in the US. It's also legally a different product, produced in a different lab.

 

[Max Power]

In terms of practicality, what meaningful difference do you see between the brand name drug and what people in the US are receiving that you feel the need to make the distinction?  Just curious...TIA.

They are different products. One is FDA approved and the other isnt. Same formula sure... but the production process is different. The FDA version is more regulated.

I also find it concerning how the media portrays the Pfizer Biontech covid vaccine to be fully FDA approved when it isn't 

This mandate is essentially forcing people to take a drug being administered under an EUA, which is concerning.

There are also less legal options to explore if someone is injured under EUA use vs under fully FDA approved guidelines. 

 

[The Commish]

They are different products. One is FDA approved and the other isnt. Same formula sure... but the production process is different. The FDA version is more regulated.

I also find it concerning how the media portrays the Pfizer Biontech covid vaccine to be fully FDA approved when it isn't 

This mandate is essentially forcing people to take a drug being administered under an EUA, which is concerning.

There are also less legal options to explore if someone is injured under EUA use vs under fully FDA approved guidelines. 

What do you mean by this?  The packaging?  The bottle they put it in?  The tools they use to mix the ingredients?  The contents are the same.

 

[Max Power]

What do you mean by this?  The packaging?  The bottle they put it in?  The tools they use to mix the ingredients?  The contents are the same.

The production location is different. FDA approval comes with quality control inspections of production sites. EUA doesn't. 

Bottom line is they are different products legally and that's what counts. 

 

[The Commish]

The production location is different. FDA approval comes with quality control inspections of production sites. EUA doesn't. 

Bottom line is they are different products legally and that's what counts. 

So the building is the issue for you.  Got it.  I also understand from a legal perspective they are different.  As a matter of practicality, I see no reason to make a huge deal about the building they are being processed in.  I also understand that people have been convinced over time that the inefficiencies in our legal process are "safety measures" as well.  They aren't, but that's for another thread.  I know people are convinced that the only way something is safe is if it takes X amount of years for it to get to market.  That's going to require generational change.  All I can say to them at this point, is they're not going to be happy with how quickly things come to market moving forward.  This new approach is a complete game changer in the vaccine industry.

 

[Anarchy99]

Another update for my wife’s company.

For people that work in the field that interact with patients and clinical providers directly, they have axed those that were not vaccinated in two regions of the country. 

I don’t know if that is a shot across the bow for everyone else (I think they have 8 regions) or if they will immediately move on to other sections of the country.  Where we live, those same work classifications have only been working remotely, so they have a later date to provide proof of vaccination. 

But overall, it looks like they have quit stalling and moving the goal posts and have begun thinning out the herd. 

 

[Max Power]

So the building is the issue for you.  Got it.  I also understand from a legal perspective they are different.  As a matter of practicality, I see no reason to make a huge deal about the building they are being processed in.  I also understand that people have been convinced over time that the inefficiencies in our legal process are "safety measures" as well.  They aren't, but that's for another thread.  I know people are convinced that the only way something is safe is if it takes X amount of years for it to get to market.  That's going to require generational change.  All I can say to them at this point, is they're not going to be happy with how quickly things come to market moving forward.  This new approach is a complete game changer in the vaccine industry.

I'm saying there is a difference from the regulatory aspect. Also the injury protection claim process. 

The dishonesty and misrepresentation that Pfizer Biontech is fully FDA approved bothers me. When vaccine hesitancy is an issue, not being upfront with the actual facts doesnt help the situation.

Enforcing a mandate against an EUA vaccine might also be illegal for federal employees.

 

[Sparky Big Time]

Thus far I observe that most of them are accepting that they will lose some small % to the refusal of people to vaccinate. They are starting to open up job requisitions ahead of this in anticipation of it happening. So from my view they are resigned to it. I think this will come back to bite them.

 

[The Commish]

So the building is the issue for you.  Got it.  I also understand from a legal perspective they are different.  As a matter of practicality, I see no reason to make a huge deal about the building they are being processed in.  I also understand that people have been convinced over time that the inefficiencies in our legal process are "safety measures" as well.  They aren't, but that's for another thread.  I know people are convinced that the only way something is safe is if it takes X amount of years for it to get to market.  That's going to require generational change.  All I can say to them at this point, is they're not going to be happy with how quickly things come to market moving forward.  This new approach is a complete game changer in the vaccine industry.

I'm saying there is a difference from the regulatory aspect. Also the injury protection claim process. 

The dishonesty and misrepresentation that Pfizer Biontech is fully FDA approved bothers me. When vaccine hesitancy is an issue, not being upfront with the actual facts doesnt help the situation.

Enforcing a mandate against an EUA vaccine might also be illegal for federal employees.

Would you mind shooting me the place you're getting the legal distinctions from and the link saying it's not approved by the FDA?

 

[Max Power]

Would you mind shooting me the place you're getting the legal distinctions from and the link saying it's not approved by the FDA?

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/comirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine

Fact Sheet for Recipients and Caregivers pg1

Citation 1 explains the legal distinction 

Fact Sheet for Healthcare Providers Administering Vaccine pg 11

States Pfizer Biontech is not FDA approved. 

 

[Snotbubbles]

Looks like the Supreme Court has let their feeling be known about the mandates. They are letting them go forward.

The US Supreme Court on Tuesday refused to stop a state-imposed COVID-19 vaccine mandate for health care workers in Maine

It’s not surprising—I mean, we’ve all been to school, and therefore dealing with these types of “mandates” our whole lives—but at least now we know how the SC feels about the subject. I wonder if this will sway any conservatives.

States are allowed to impose mandates under "police powers".  The Federal Government doesn't have those powers.  

 

[Snotbubbles]

I'm pro vax but anti mandate. However if someone is concerned about the FDA approval, the approval for the formula should suffice - not the brand name. 

As someone who made a career suing Pharma companies and being privy to internal emails, FDA approval is not something that gives me great confidence in the safety of a product.   

 

[Max Power]

As someone who made a career suing Pharma companies and being privy to internal emails, FDA approval is not something that gives me great confidence in the safety of a product.   

Would you say from a legal standpoint, FDA approval plays a role in the legal actions available?

 

[Snotbubbles]

So the building is the issue for you.  Got it.  I also understand from a legal perspective they are different.  As a matter of practicality, I see no reason to make a huge deal about the building they are being processed in.  I also understand that people have been convinced over time that the inefficiencies in our legal process are "safety measures" as well.  They aren't, but that's for another thread.  I know people are convinced that the only way something is safe is if it takes X amount of years for it to get to market.  That's going to require generational change.  All I can say to them at this point, is they're not going to be happy with how quickly things come to market moving forward.  This new approach is a complete game changer in the vaccine industry.

The buildings doing the processing are huge issues.  If by some instance different drug components get mixed because I'm sure the drug manufacturing facility isn't making just the COVID vaccines, it could cause reactions.  It's why seniors going across the border to Canada for cheap drugs is an issue, the FDA doesn't do quality control on all those manufacturers and if the drugs are being produced where the FDA isn't doing a QC, they can't confirm the safety or formulation. 

DISCLAIMER: I didn't read to see if this is the case with the vaccine manufacturing that Max Power is talking about, I'm just speaking generally on the dangers of not having an FDA QC on manufacturers. 

 

[Snotbubbles]

Would you say from a legal standpoint, FDA approval plays a role in the legal actions available?

Not sure what you mean here.  Every drug class action I worked on the drug was FDA approved.  It went to market.  It cause serious injury or death.  The drug company gets sued.  Usually after making billions of dollars and then they settle for 100s of millions.  

 

[The Commish]

Would you mind shooting me the place you're getting the legal distinctions from and the link saying it's not approved by the FDA?

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/comirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine

Fact Sheet for Recipients and Caregivers pg1

Citation 1 explains the legal distinction 

Fact Sheet for Healthcare Providers Administering Vaccine pg 11

States Pfizer Biontech is not FDA approved. 

These are the legal distinctions necessary to differentiate between the vaccine's approval for those 16+ and EAU use for 12-15 years old.  Once approval is given for 12-15 this verbiage will go away.  Once it's EAU is approved for 5-11 it will be added back.  Once 5-11 is approved, it will go away etc etc. 

 

[The Commish]

The buildings doing the processing are huge issues.  If by some instance different drug components get mixed because I'm sure the drug manufacturing facility isn't making just the COVID vaccines, it could cause reactions.  It's why seniors going across the border to Canada for cheap drugs is an issue, the FDA doesn't do quality control on all those manufacturers and if the drugs are being produced where the FDA isn't doing a QC, they can't confirm the safety or formulation. 

DISCLAIMER: I didn't read to see if this is the case with the vaccine manufacturing that Max Power is talking about, I'm just speaking generally on the dangers of not having an FDA QC on manufacturers. 

According to Pfizer, production lines for their mRNA are not intermingled with any other production lines at the current time given the high demand.  They are making vaccine around the clock exclusively on those particular lines.

 

[Max Power]

Not sure what you mean here.  Every drug class action I worked on the drug was FDA approved.  It went to market.  It cause serious injury or death.  The drug company gets sued.  Usually after making billions of dollars and then they settle for 100s of millions.  

That kind of answers my question. There are more protections under FDA approval. The current vaccines being given arent FDA approved "legally"