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VBD with Actuals (1 Viewer)

tytyty

Footballguy
If someone has please let me know. I was just wondering if you took the regular season Actual stats from last season and plug them into VBD, how the value order would of looked like. I know we all have different scoring system but maybe using a standard FBG scoring method.

Just by gut it seemed like WR would have been better to take in earlier picks then most years for 2005. If anyone has the capabilty to do like the top 50 actual numbers on VBD I think that would be cool. Thanks!

 
Your question is excellent -- my is silly, but I couldn't find it on the site. What are FBG standard scoring rules?

 
I am not exactly sure. Pretty simple but whatever they use for the preseason VBD would work. Another reason why I ask is when I loaded my scoring system in the new VBD, the 1st 21 picks are RB!!! I know this is a very friendly RB site but man wow. My scoring is 1 pt every 10 yard rushingd and receiving, doesnt matter the position. 4 pt qb td, 6 pt rushing and receiving td. Plus bonus points for longer td's for all.

 
I did this last offseason, standard scoring, ran it with and without IDP...

Sadly the thread has been pruned...

 
LINK

Value scores in the far right.

Fantasy Points = (Pass Yards)/20 + (Rush Yd + Rec Yd)/10 + (Pass TDs)*4 + (Rush TDs + Rec TDs)*6 - (INTs)*1

Based on #12 QB, the #24 RB, the #30 WR, and the #12 TE.

 
221 Shaun Alexander192 Larry Johnson174 LaDainian Tomlinson162 Tiki Barber125 Edgerrin James120 Steve Smith101 Clinton Portis93 Antonio Gates88 Larry Fitzgerald85 Santana Moss84 Rudi Johnson84 Chad Johnson82 Lamont Jordan72 Joey Galloway71 Torry Holt70 Chris Chambers70 Anquan Boldin70 Marvin Harrison59 Thomas Jones58 Carson Palmer58 Mike Anderson54 Jeremy Shockey54 Steven Jackson51 Todd Heap50 Tom Brady48 Hines Ward47 Plaxico Burress45 Warrick Dunn45 Terry Glenn42 Chris Cooley41 Alge Crumpler37 Donald Driver35 Jason Witten34 Peyton Manning33 T.J. Houshmandzadeh32 Randy Moss31 Rod Smith29 Willis McGahee29 Reuben Droughns29 Willie Parker29 Keenan McCardell28 Eddie Kennison26 Tony Gonzalez26 Corey Dillon24 Domanick Davis22 Brian Westbrook22 Jimmy Smith21 Eli Manning20 Donte Stallworth19 Cadillac Williams19 Reggie Wayne18 Matt Hasselbeck17 Chris Brown14 Drew Bledsoe13 Deion Branch13 Joe Jurevicius11 Drew Brees11 Randy McMichael9 L.J. Smith9 Derrick Mason9 Antonio Bryant8 Jerramy Stevens8 Julius Jones7 Trent Green7 Tatum Bell7 Jerry Porter6 Kerry Collins6 Kevin Curtis5 Heath Miller4 Keyshawn Johnson3 Lee Evans2 Michael Vick1 Ronnie Brown0 Jake Plummer0 Jake Delhomme0 Deshaun Foster0 Roy Williams12 QB, 24 RB, 30 WR, 12 TE is the baseline.http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/fant2005.htm#qb

 
chase and david thanks!!!. now to analyze a bit. would it be reasonable with basically the same scoring to have the 1st 21 picks ber rb?

 
chase and david thanks!!!. now to analyze a bit. would it be reasonable with basically the same scoring to have the 1st 21 picks ber rb?
Are you familiar with dynamic VBD and/or the Draft Dominator?
 
chase and david thanks!!!. now to analyze a bit. would it be reasonable with basically the same scoring to have the 1st 21 picks ber rb?
How many people in the league? Starters?If it's a 16 man league, start 3 RB I could see it.

 
IGNORE. My bad. I changed the Flex numbers and thats why it did that. I am good. However, interesting results found on WR's even so.

 
IGNORE. My bad. I changed the Flex numbers and thats why it did that. I am good. However, interesting results found on WR's even so.
It is, though remember to take it in the proper context. You would indeed do better drafting from that list than you would from your pre-season list... because the results are exactly known.But that doesn't mean the ideal draft would come from that list, for a variety of reasons. Some of which are the same reasons you shouldn't use that list from your preseason rankings to draft from exactly. Like that who you should take at this pick will also depend on who you should have available at future picks.

 
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Why WR30 as baseline?
I've never figured that one out either, and it's never been explained. And believe you me, I have asked the powers that be for an answer. IMO, it should be WR36, but I am last in line alphabetically around here.I believe it has to do with leagues with flex players, but in a 12-team league there are not 12 spots allocated for a flex spot. So they should either use 30 RB/30 WR or 24 RB/24 WR or 24 RB/36 WR.

But Doug does a fine job either way.

 
I believe it has to do with leagues with flex players, but in a 12-team league there are not 12 spots allocated for a flex spot. So they should either use 30 RB/30 WR or 24 RB/24 WR or 24 RB/36 WR.
It's just a compromise between WR24 and WR36. It's not clear to me whether start 2 WRs or start 3 WRs is "standard." To be honest, I spent a grand total of about 1.3 seconds thinking about it.Those are quick-and-dirty values, to be sure. I'd not argue with anyone that wants to set the baseline elsewhere.

 
Thanks Doug. Makes sense.

I always run my own value projections once for last projected starter baseline and once for median projected starter. I then look at both when making decisions.

 
Thanks Doug. Makes sense.

I always run my own value projections once for last projected starter baseline and once for median projected starter. I then look at both when making decisions.
Ok, I admit to never getting exactly how VBD works. But the question out here was why was the baseline wr30 not 36. Does it really matter where the baseline is? I ask because I am under the impression that based on players projections, they are always in the same order. So if p;ayer a,b,c,d, and e are the 1st, 2,3,4,5th, best value in a row, what does it matter where the baseline is set? Set me straight if I am missing something.
 
Thanks Doug. Makes sense.

I always run my own value projections once for last projected starter baseline and once for median projected starter. I then look at both when making decisions.
Ok, I admit to never getting exactly how VBD works. But the question out here was why was the baseline wr30 not 36. Does it really matter where the baseline is? I ask because I am under the impression that based on players projections, they are always in the same order. So if p;ayer a,b,c,d, and e are the 1st, 2,3,4,5th, best value in a row, what does it matter where the baseline is set? Set me straight if I am missing something.
It matters when you are comparing across positions. You're right that it's irrelevant within a position, since it's simply addition or subtraction. http://footballguys.com/05vbdrevisited.htm might help you out.

 
i concur. especially since i started it. is it possible for chase or somone to do it for 2003 and 2004? get a better sample.

 
Joe's secret formula has different baselines as a factor of league size and number of starters. Tell me these numbers and I can have tell you what the baselines are.

 
Great thread for the stat-geeks and those attempting to dive headlong into VBD (and DVBD subsequently--don't worry). Thanks much.

:blackdot:

 
Joe's secret formula has different baselines as a factor of league size and number of starters. Tell me these numbers and I can have tell you what the baselines are.
Ok so my league has 10 teams. 2 rb starters. I looked at my vbd sheet and noticed that LJ is 239 value. I subtracted his points, 408 from Foster to get 223 who was the 20th rb. If you subtract 408 from the 24th rb that is where you get 239. So why is the baseline 24 not 20 for this league?
 
Ok, I admit to never getting exactly how VBD works.
Since I have a few minutes while waiting for a long-running job at work, what the heck. I'm sure I won't say anything not already said in an article, but maybe I'll use an example that will help where another didn't.At it's simplest, what VBD is about how to compare the value of players at differing position. And what it says is that a player's value to a team depends more on how much he outscores others at his position (since they play against you), than it does the size of his season total.

That is, if RB1 outscores RB2 by 20 fantasy points, it doesn't matter if they scored 100 and 80... or 800 and 780. He's going to be just as valuable as a QB who outscore the other QB by 20, regardless of what they score.

Now that's easy to figure out in a two team league that starts 1 player at each position. Just subtract both QBs from one another, both RBs from one another, etc. The resulting number is a measure of his value to your team that can be compared from one player to another.

But what do you do in a 12 team league, where it's not just how your QB scores compared to a single other QB, but compared to 11 other? And what about when you start not 1 RB each, but 2? We have to decide what number to subtract away from the player. There is no right or wrong answer, and there are a lot of ways to go about deciding what number to use for each position. We call that number we're going to subtract the baseline. Most frequently people use the last guy who starts at the position (the 12th QB, the 24th RB, the 36th WR, etc).

Some average all the other players at his position and use that (with some modification perhaps to keep all the numers positive). And then some fudge the baseline further to account for other things... like the increased injury likelihood of RBs has some people (including Joe's Secret formula) fudging things to make RBs a little more valuable to reflect what he believes the true value should be on account of that. The idea in doing that is to make the list that is built of all players to be closer to what it should be.

But that is also in some ways a problem. One of the biggest problems with VBD is people misusing it because as you said, they aren't completely aware what it is telling them. It is a tool that tells you what the value of a given starter is vs the value of another starter regardless of position. But that isn't the same as telling you who you should pick.

The value is necessary input to the decision of who to pick. But there are other things to consider. The value of a backup isn't considered at all in VBD. Sometimes your RB3 will be more valuable to you than a starter. It doesn't take into account what will happen between this pick and the next. For instance, the best WR left on your board may have the higher VBD value than the best RB left on the board. But if you look ahead to your next pick and realize that there is little difference between the WR you can get next round, and the one now... but that there is a huge drop in RBs between now and then, you should take the RB even though he has a lower value.

I hope some of that is of use.

 
Joe's secret formula has different baselines as a factor of league size and number of starters. Tell me these numbers and I can have tell you what the baselines are.
Ok so my league has 10 teams. 2 rb starters. I looked at my vbd sheet and noticed that LJ is 239 value. I subtracted his points, 408 from Foster to get 223 who was the 20th rb. If you subtract 408 from the 24th rb that is where you get 239. So why is the baseline 24 not 20 for this league?
See the post I just made after yours. Joe's formula is trying to reflect that RBs are even more valuable than just their points would suggest with the last starter as the baseline for several reasons. Increased chance of injury at the position. Fewer players at the position who can put up points worth starting, etc.In short, Joe doesn't feel that using the last starter accurately reflects what he thinks the true value of a RB is. So he adjusts that baseline to get it closer to what he thinks. Which makes it a more useful tool for him as input for his decision who to draft.

 
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Joe's secret formula has different baselines as a factor of league size and number of starters.  Tell me these numbers and I can have tell you what the baselines are.
Ok so my league has 10 teams. 2 rb starters. I looked at my vbd sheet and noticed that LJ is 239 value. I subtracted his points, 408 from Foster to get 223 who was the 20th rb. If you subtract 408 from the 24th rb that is where you get 239. So why is the baseline 24 not 20 for this league?
See the post I just made after yours. Joe's formula is trying to reflect that RBs are even more valuable than just their points would suggest with the last starter as the baseline for several reasons. Increased chance of injury at the position. Fewer players at the position who can put up points worth starting, etc.In short, Joe doesn't feel that using the last starter accurately reflects what he thinks the true value of a RB is. So he adjusts that baseline to get it closer to what he thinks. Which makes it a more useful tool for him as input for his decision who to draft.
Greg, that is great. And I do get that, especially now. Maybe it that Joe's formula place a bit more emphasis on RB's that I do. I can then adjust from there. Thanks!
 

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