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Not even remotely close. Read Clayton's latest on it. Seattle will match this contract quite easily, actually. And they will. Very soon. End of story.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
Sounds like that is the truth, but I have to give kudos to the Vikings for actually making the move...he's either theirs or he remains a Seahawk. At least they aren't sitting on their hands.Not even remotely close. Read Clayton's latest on it. Seattle will match this contract quite easily, actually. And they will. Very soon. End of story.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
Got a link?Not even remotely close. Read Clayton's latest on it. Seattle will match this contract quite easily, actually. And they will. Very soon. End of story.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
Say what? Williams contract expired. He was given a transition tag same as hutchinson. He was not franchised. The vikes then lifted the transitional tag. So explain to me how the Vikes didn't regain the amount of a 10 ten CB in cap space? It doesn't work like that. If it does, please find the NFL rules and show it to me. I tried looking for it, given what has been "assumed" by seahawks fans.The transition money is already counted against the cap. Williams money would have gone from a franchise to a transitional and that money is currently counted against the cap because it is a carryover salary. But this also depends on the source which varies.From what I see the Vikings have less than the Seahawks in total cap space after the Taylor signing. If the Vikings sign Hutch they will have around 12 mill left for 2006 while if the Seahawks signed him they would have more than 13. But I don't work for the NFL and we take what we can get as far as information. This is what I know based on testimonials, articles, news, etc. This is not 8th grade Algebra by any means but I believe I'm 80-95 percent right.I don't believe it works like that. The vikes didn't get any money back toward the cap when they lifted Williams tag. So I think you are wrong there.This is incorrect. The Seahawks have plenty of room and will be able to sign Hutchinson without redoing anything. Where did you get that from? Guessing? They have Hutch's 6.1 already against the cap. So they have that plus about 17 million. What's the cap hit on Hutchinson in year one? The Seahawks can match bt I actually hope they do not. That is too much even for football's best guard.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
Even so, any other team can make an offer and now they know what the Seahawks are willing to pay.Not even remotely close. Read Clayton's latest on it. Seattle will match this contract quite easily, actually. And they will. Very soon. End of story.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
Even so, any other team can make an offer and now they know what the Seahawks are willing to pay.Not even remotely close. Read Clayton's latest on it. Seattle will match this contract quite easily, actually. And they will. Very soon. End of story.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
What are you saying, only one team is allowed to make an offer?Even so, any other team can make an offer and now they know what the Seahawks are willing to pay.Not even remotely close. Read Clayton's latest on it. Seattle will match this contract quite easily, actually. And they will. Very soon. End of story.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
No, any number of teams can make offers, but Hutchinson can only sign one of them.It's not open season all year long on his services.What are you saying, only one team is allowed to make an offer?Even so, any other team can make an offer and now they know what the Seahawks are willing to pay.Not even remotely close. Read Clayton's latest on it. Seattle will match this contract quite easily, actually. And they will. Very soon. End of story.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
no, there won't be any other teams "uping" the ante. It is either MN or Seattle. Either Seattle matches or he goes to MN. An offer sheet is an conditional contract where the team signing the contract is the only condition.What are you saying, only one team is allowed to make an offer?Even so, any other team can make an offer and now they know what the Seahawks are willing to pay.Not even remotely close. Read Clayton's latest on it. Seattle will match this contract quite easily, actually. And they will. Very soon. End of story.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
Additionally, please show me even one quote anywhere of "hutchinson" or any other transioned teamed player not being signed resulting in an "increase" to that teams cap. You won't find it.Say what? Williams contract expired. He was given a transition tag same as hutchinson. He was not franchised. The vikes then lifted the transitional tag. So explain to me how the Vikes didn't regain the amount of a 10 ten CB in cap space? It doesn't work like that. If it does, please find the NFL rules and show it to me. I tried looking for it, given what has been "assumed" by seahawks fans.The transition money is already counted against the cap. Williams money would have gone from a franchise to a transitional and that money is currently counted against the cap because it is a carryover salary. But this also depends on the source which varies.From what I see the Vikings have less than the Seahawks in total cap space after the Taylor signing. If the Vikings sign Hutch they will have around 12 mill left for 2006 while if the Seahawks signed him they would have more than 13. But I don't work for the NFL and we take what we can get as far as information. This is what I know based on testimonials, articles, news, etc. This is not 8th grade Algebra by any means but I believe I'm 80-95 percent right.I don't believe it works like that. The vikes didn't get any money back toward the cap when they lifted Williams tag. So I think you are wrong there.This is incorrect. The Seahawks have plenty of room and will be able to sign Hutchinson without redoing anything. Where did you get that from? Guessing? They have Hutch's 6.1 already against the cap. So they have that plus about 17 million. What's the cap hit on Hutchinson in year one? The Seahawks can match bt I actually hope they do not. That is too much even for football's best guard.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
They could match the offer, but they would then be able to try and renegotiate the contract to reduce the roster bonus that the Vikings would be offering before the date the roster bonus is to be paid. Is it possible that the contract stats that the roster bonus is paid as soon as the contract is signed? At that point I wouldn't think that they could renegotiate it.Have we seen what the actaul cap number for this season is? I gotta believe it's upwards of 13-15 million.
Please give me a quote stating that Hutch's tender counts against the cap. Should be reports saying if not tagged the cap will be X, if tagged it will be Y. There should be a history of this kind of reporting on any tagged player. I haven't found it.
All tagged tenders count against the cap. The tender is at the average of of the Top 10 in that position. Its like that for the franchise tag, and for the transition tag. Do you really think you just get to tag a player with no cap ramfications??The hawks had about 17 million in cap space WITH hutch's tag counting in that. Add another 7 million for the contract and the Hawks have about 9 million in cap space left. Add in the rookie pool into that and they are at bout 5-6 million. The Hawks have tons of cap space if they want to match this offer.
I am asking for quotes or anywhere it is showing a "cap gain" if they let the player go. I haven't seen it from what I have looked so far. Also any reference to this in the NFL rules would be helpful. I just cannot find it, if that is the way things are, no biggie, but I cannot find any evidence of it.
Who is the best WR available? Antonio Bryant? And Abraham is so expensive they won't save much $ signing him instead. Considering how many teams are looking for help at WR and Bryant is the only viable cantidate left the Abraham/Bryant combo could end up costing more but not helping the team nearly as much as just re-signing Hutchinson imo. As Alexander goes, so go the Seahawks.
Full articleThe problem with this whole conversation is that the Seahawks fans are quoting numbers that assume Hutchinson's transition tag while the others are asking if that money is counted. The salary cap space and numbers we all see in all the places we see them vary based on a multitude of factors. The one ESPN has may not include Hutch's salary while the one on a Seahawks forum figured by an insider does.
Nice Try. NO THEY WON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!Not even remotely close. Read Clayton's latest on it. Seattle will match this contract quite easily, actually. And they will. Very soon. End of story.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
I don't understand why they'e looking to sign a safety when they have Sharper and just re-signed Offord. Unless they don't have that much confidence in Offord.
That sounds like the dumbest thing I have heard. Is it just for this year, or is it throughout his whole contract?If its just for this year, then that isn't a problem, if its for the entire contract, then you are saying that Minny's highest paid player for the next 7 years will be a Guard? LOL
Is it possible that the contract states the highest paid OFFENSIVE LINE player on the team? That would in effect do the same thing regarding Seattle's ability to resign him, while not tying Minnesota's hands regarding other FAs. Just speculating based on the above bolded statement about Jones - wouldn't Alexander be used as an example if it was any player on the team?
PFT made it sound as if it would guarantee the contract throughout the life of the contract. But again, I'm not sure how this could possibly work in favor of the Vikings since Daunte Culpepper's contract is certainly larger than the one they offered Hutchinson.
I could see that. But I think that any extra stipulations attached to the clause will just make it more likely that it wouldn't be upheld.
I would guess that the deal only takes the actaul salary into account.Culpeppers deal, while massive, is largly due to performance bonuses. His actaul salary is not very much and was a great contract for the Vikings. If it were not such a Vikings friendly contract I'm sure Wilf would have thought a little harder about rewriting the deal to just give him that extra $6 million bonus this week.
Well isn't Hutch's salary for 2005 only $585,000. How is that the highest paid on the team? And if its total salary of the contract, you think its higher than C-Pep's??
If he's got a 13 million cap hit this year then his salary is 5.85 million not 585,000. Unfortunatly we have see conflicting reports on that part. I am inlclined to believe that the 13 million hit is the truth...were it only the 8 or whatever the Vikings would have to know that the Hawks would match.
This is interesting but I'd like to see another source before commenting.Nice Try. NO THEY WON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!HUTCHINSON OFFER HAS MAJOR POISON PILLNot even remotely close. Read Clayton's latest on it. Seattle will match this contract quite easily, actually. And they will. Very soon. End of story.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
A league source tells us that the offer sheet signed by Seahawks guard Steve Hutchinson with the Minnesota Vikings contains a poison pill of unprecedented magnitude and significance, which is aimed at preventing Seattle from exercising its right to match the deal, pursuant to the rules applicable to transition players.
Apart from a 2006 cap number that exceeds $13 million, the offer sheet contains a provision that makes the entire deal guaranteed if Hutchinson at any point becomes anything other than the highest paid player on the team.
From Seattle's perspective, that's a big problem, in light of the Walter Jones contract. If the Seahawks match, Hutchinson's deal could indeed become fully guaranteed from day one.
The Seahawks could attempt to match the offer and exclude the poison pill provision, taking the position that it is not a "Principal Term" of the deal. Under Article XX, Section 5 of the CBA, only the "Principal Terms" must be matched.
So what are "Principle Terms"? Under Article XIX, Section 3(e)(ii) of the CBA, "Principle Terms" include "[a]ny modifications of and additions to the terms contained in the NFL Player Contract . . . that relate to non-compensation terms (including guarantees, no-cut, and no-trade provisions)." Applying the language literally, the poison pill "relates to" a guarantee because it sets forth a specific circumstance in which the specified compensation will become guaranteed.
There's a chance that the Seahawks will attempt to fashion an argument that the trigger for the guarantee violates the spirit of the CBA by placing an artificial limit on the money that can be paid to other players. But, in reality, it doesn't -- it merely provides the player who ultimately is not the highest paid player a guaranteed contract.
Though the issue ultimately might land before an arbitrator or a special master, we think that the Vikings will prevail on this one.
We're also told that the Seahawks are livid at Hutchinson and agent Tom Condon with this development. It's one thing, as they see it, for a guy to get the best offer he can on the open market. It's another thing to huddle with the new team in an effort to come up with an offer that the Seahawks can't or won't be able to match.
There are conlicting reports, but Seattle can match either one.I am discussing the clause that the Vikes supposedly have. It doesn't make sense to me and have heard nothing other that PFT reporting it.
I'm no capologist so I'm wondering what are the ramifications of guarantying the entire contract? Obviously if his leg falls off you've made a huge financial blunder but if the whole thing immediately becomes guarateed due to Shaun Alexander's existing contract does the huge guaranteed amount impact this year's cap?
Why couldn't the Hawks just restructure Alexander's contract so that he would still get the same amount, but not in his salary?? The Hawks have 7 days to work things out, so thats not out of the question by any means.
As was I...you responded to my thought about it only being related to base salary (not bonuses) saying he would only make 585,000 as his base, while some reports have shown it to be drasticly higher.I agree that this is very odd and can see it not being allowed, maybe the point is more that Hutch wants out and is trying to create a problem so they will attempt to match? As a Vikings fan I really hope this clause is explained and we are not hindered from signing FAs in comming years.
That was exactly the poison pill that someone from the Chargers board proposed a couple weeks ago.Nice Try. NO THEY WON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!HUTCHINSON OFFER HAS MAJOR POISON PILLNot even remotely close. Read Clayton's latest on it. Seattle will match this contract quite easily, actually. And they will. Very soon. End of story.No way Seattle will match this offer, if they do their done signing any players this year, and will have to redo some contracts of existing players just to sign their draft picks. It appears the Vikes have out foxed the Hawks
A league source tells us that the offer sheet signed by Seahawks guard Steve Hutchinson with the Minnesota Vikings contains a poison pill of unprecedented magnitude and significance, which is aimed at preventing Seattle from exercising its right to match the deal, pursuant to the rules applicable to transition players.
Apart from a 2006 cap number that exceeds $13 million, the offer sheet contains a provision that makes the entire deal guaranteed if Hutchinson at any point becomes anything other than the highest paid player on the team.
From Seattle's perspective, that's a big problem, in light of the Walter Jones contract. If the Seahawks match, Hutchinson's deal could indeed become fully guaranteed from day one.
The Seahawks could attempt to match the offer and exclude the poison pill provision, taking the position that it is not a "Principal Term" of the deal. Under Article XX, Section 5 of the CBA, only the "Principal Terms" must be matched.
So what are "Principle Terms"? Under Article XIX, Section 3(e)(ii) of the CBA, "Principle Terms" include "[a]ny modifications of and additions to the terms contained in the NFL Player Contract . . . that relate to non-compensation terms (including guarantees, no-cut, and no-trade provisions)." Applying the language literally, the poison pill "relates to" a guarantee because it sets forth a specific circumstance in which the specified compensation will become guaranteed.
There's a chance that the Seahawks will attempt to fashion an argument that the trigger for the guarantee violates the spirit of the CBA by placing an artificial limit on the money that can be paid to other players. But, in reality, it doesn't -- it merely provides the player who ultimately is not the highest paid player a guaranteed contract.
Though the issue ultimately might land before an arbitrator or a special master, we think that the Vikings will prevail on this one.
We're also told that the Seahawks are livid at Hutchinson and agent Tom Condon with this development. It's one thing, as they see it, for a guy to get the best offer he can on the open market. It's another thing to huddle with the new team in an effort to come up with an offer that the Seahawks can't or won't be able to match.
