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Vote Blue No Matter Who (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Max Power
- Start date
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
Boy, would I love to see Kasich drop into the Republican primary like Bloomberg just did on the Dem side.
Trump having one of his incoherent impromptu press conferences in front of the White House and then...OH MY GOD! THATS KASICH'S MUSIC!
As it stands right now, I'd cross party lines and vote for him in a general election.
Trump having one of his incoherent impromptu press conferences in front of the White House and then...OH MY GOD! THATS KASICH'S MUSIC!
As it stands right now, I'd cross party lines and vote for him in a general election.
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Can Kasich please use Stone Cold's music for this? After all, Trump got a Stunner from the guy.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Perhaps these changes represented a shift in government that was 'good' on net to some people. I think they were mostly incremental changes. Even the ACA, arguably the signature piece of legislation, was essentially Romneycare on a national scale. The healthcare industry is a racket now. Obama opposed gay marriage before he 'evolved'. He could have removed marijuana from the drug schedule, but didn't.
There were many changes for the worse. The Democrats granted final immunity to Bush's CIA torturers. They immortalized Bush's taxcuts for the rich. They took us from 2 wars to 7, ramped up whistleblower prosecutions under the Espionage Act, bailed out banks while homeowners drowned. Didn't prosecute anyone for the Iraq War (except the whistleblower), didn't prosecute anyone for the financial crisis. They stacked their cabinet with a handpicked list from Citigroup. They built many of the immigrant detention centers we now decry as prison camps. They failed to close Guantanamo like they promised. Time and time again, they supported this country's descent into an authoritarian, oligarchic state. When Obama pulled this PR stunt in Flint, black voters in Michigan realized he wasn't their president anymore. And then we got Trump.
When the author laments the transfer of power to a single party, he's referring to how that party inevitably fails to pass meaningful reforms, the minority party does a big song and dance about how it's going to finally change Washington, and the cycle repeats itself over and over and over again, as it has for decades.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yes, I understand what is being said, I’m saying I disagree for the reasons I stated.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Ok, well he wasn't saying literally nothing at all changes between revolving administrations. The reasons you stated are inconsequential compared to the other stuff that happened and not really germane to his point.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I understand that your opinion is that those things are inconsequential in comparison to the things you are discussing. I disagree with you.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Just saying, his point is not hard to understand. You said you don't understand the position that 'vote blue no matter who' is essentially voting for more of the same. You said Democrats are pushing policy like crazy- and I pointed out how they're pushing policies like crazy because they know absolutely zero of them will actually pass through the Senate and Executive branch. They do this because it's a cheap political stunt to build favor for their 2020 ambitions. I outlined how many of the policies stay the same or even get worse regardless of who is in power (you didn't acknowledge any of them). If you disagree that's fine, but if you do understand then there's no need to play dumb about why people feel disenfranchised by both parties.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I’m not playing dumb. I don’t understand how someone comes to the positions he has or the position you have while staying intellectually engaged and honest in the world. I understand what the position is, I don’t understand the mindset that makes a person take it.
That is a little disingenuous though.
I don't think anyone expects the GOP-led senate to rubber-stamp any House measure. The expected response is to take up the measure, offering a GOP-centric solution, and then the two chambers can get together to see if there is a compromise that they can each live with.
By failing to even consider the House resolutions, the GOP is removing the possibility of moving the process forward.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Right- the Republicans are to blame as well for not passing policy that improves people's lives.
The point is, why do we pretend that one party is benevolent when they're both largely owned by the same corporate structures?
For people that are tired of 'lesser evil' voting, there isn't a substantial enough difference between the two corrupt parties to keep going down this road.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
if you think about it - we as voters are in a bind
conservatives will vote GOP because the core policies of the DNC is unacceptable - and so too will liberals vote DNC because they don't like the core policies of GOP
does the candidate REALLY matter anymore at all ? for a million or two swing votes maybe yes, but the majority has their minds made up already don't they ?
conservatives will vote GOP because the core policies of the DNC is unacceptable - and so too will liberals vote DNC because they don't like the core policies of GOP
does the candidate REALLY matter anymore at all ? for a million or two swing votes maybe yes, but the majority has their minds made up already don't they ?
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
That's when it's most important. If you're VBNMW (as everyone should be this time around), then you need to vote in the primaries so that you hopefully aren't just voting blue, but voting for the candidate you prefer.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Then you risk alienating a voting block that might otherwise vote for you in the general. The issues obviously don't matter to you. Let the primary be decided by those who care about them.
That's quite an ignorant assumption. If the issues don't matter, then why vote at all? The concept behind VBNMW is that the current administration is so wrong that any mildly competent adult would be better. It doesn't mean that you don't actually have an opinion on which candidate is best.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
If they don't nominate a progressive, I'll pull the lever for Trump. There are many others out there like me that will do the same. If your main goal is to defeat Trump, you may want to consider that.
Shame on you, but at the same time there are a lot of people saying the opposite of you ("if they nominate someone too progressive, I'll pull the lever for trump"). In the end, I don't care about either type of voter because the majority of voters won't be voting for trump. Any free thinking person knows what he is by now and any of those people with a conscience wouldn't dare put him in office for another four years.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
As someone who is hoping for a progressive, by voting for Trump would your goal be to push the Democrats further left or is there something in Trump’s agenda that is appealing to you?
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
The two deal breaker issues for me are M4A and FP. It find it very unlikely that a candidate with this platform will come out of the GOP to challenge a Democrat incumbent.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Any free thinking person also knows that the DNC elite are in the pockets of the MIC, the banking cartel, big pharm, insurance companies, private prisons, etc. You are playing right into their hands.
I didn't vote for Hillary and I won't be voting Biden or Tulsi in the primary.
And you can't be so naive as to think that trump, so desperate for money that he pilfered $3MM from a charity, can't be easily bought out by all of those that you just named. If you vote for trump, you are playing right into their hands. Never has a president been so easily influenced by promises of money and/or power as this one.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
I never claimed he couldn't. If the choice is between two corrupt candidates, I will gladly punt on the off chance that a progressive is nominated next cycle. The solution is going to have to come from the Dems eventually and it won't come from them if it means they have to primary their own incumbent.
It's flabbergasting to hear a progressive claim they'll vote trump, but in the end, I think this is moot. I don't expect Biden to win the Dem nom. Hopefully you are happy with whichever progressive wins the nom.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Outside of Biden/Tulsi, which candidates do you think are "in the pockets of the MIC, the banking cartel, big pharm, insurance companies, private prisons, etc."
https://electionbettingodds.com/DemPrimary2020.html
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I’m drawing a blank on what “FP” is. Is it fair to say that you are in the “push the Democrats to the left” camp then? My concern with Trump is he’s just given a new face to some of the same old “swamp” things he ran on while introducing some new unappealing characteristics around civility. I do get the concern about a Biden but those only ring true to me if he wasn’t (potentially) running against Trump.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
If they don't nominate a progressive I (probably) won't be voting Democrat but I definitely won't be voting Trump. I'll most likely vote Green again, I know they won't win but its most likely supporting the issues I care about, helps the green party get funding and pushes Dems Left (if only slightly)Navin Johnson said:
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Probably substitute libertarian for green but otherwise this is exactly where I'm at.
ren hoek
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
From Gym Jordan's upcoming opponent: "Say what you will about Donald Trump, but injecting bleach and shining sunlight up our butts is the most detailed Republican replacement for Obamacare I've heard so far."
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Because "Vote for a sexual assaulter no matter who" just doesn't rhyme for Biden.
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James Daulton
Footballguy
Travis the Chimp
Footballguy
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Cripes, this again?
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Methinks everyone who "Can't vote for Biden" wasnt going to vote for Biden anyway.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
I agonized in 2016 about whether to vote my conscience and vote Johnson or vote Clinton for the sake of rejecting Trump even though I hated her with every fiber of my being and still do.
Ultimately I did vote for her and a major factor in that decision was the credible sexual assault allegations against Trump.
So no, I won't be voting for Biden. the Democrats had over twenty other candidates they could have chosen and they went with the Me Too guy.
Unbelievable and yet so very believable.
Ultimately I did vote for her and a major factor in that decision was the credible sexual assault allegations against Trump.
So no, I won't be voting for Biden. the Democrats had over twenty other candidates they could have chosen and they went with the Me Too guy.
Unbelievable and yet so very believable.
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
I voted for Johnson because I didn't like either mainstream candidate. This year I am voting to get Trump out of office. I don't like it, I wish I didn't have to, and I'm going to have to take a shower afterwards, but I am not going to vote for a candidate that stands no realistic chance at unseating Trump. The past 4 years have been a disaster, and the best way to change that and get this nation back to some sanity is to vote him out.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
I was all set to vote for Biden and then I heard that he once may have done something that Trump has been accused of doing 20+ times, so now I'm not sure.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Herb
Footballguy
You could put literally anything after the colon and it wouldn't matter at this point. I will vote for a puddle of hyena entrails and bat guano over Trump. At least the puddle would know better than to vomit garbage all over Twitter a hundred times a day.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
"Joe Biden: __ times less ____ than Trump."
ren hoek
Footballguy
To me it's like asking Jeffrey Dahmer to babysit your children, or asking John Wayne Gacy to babysit your children. You have to pick one! I'm not playing their game anymore. I will vote for someone that I actually respect.
Biden's not going to change a ####### thing. They are both owned by the same corporate structures. To pretend otherwise is a fantasy.
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Herb
Footballguy
I'm with you in spirit. But I've never played the game. I've almost always left the POTUS choice on my ballot blank. I would never vote for a candidate in any election just because they were the lesser of two evils. I had to believe in them.
We see how that turned out.
Out of curiosity, how old are you, Ren?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
This
I voted R the first three elections I voted in - Reagan, Reagan, GHWB. Up until I was 29 I thought I’d always belong to the GOP.
.Have voted D the last 7 (1992-2016.)
I don’t vote straight ticket but for POTUS I doubt I will ever vote R again. But you never know, anything’s possible.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Never mind.
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