Vote Blue No Matter Who (2 Viewers)

[FF Ninja]

To me it's like asking Jeffrey Dahmer to babysit your children, or asking John Wayne Gacy to babysit your children.  You have to pick one!  I'm not playing their game anymore.   I will vote for someone that I actually respect.  

Biden's not going to change a ####### thing.  They are both owned by the same corporate structures.  To pretend otherwise is a fantasy.  

Do you want another conservative hack on the supreme court? Because that's how you get another conservative hack on the supreme court.

Biden is unlikely to accomplish anything meaningful, but he won't brazenly break laws/commit impeachable offenses while making us the laughing stock of the world. He won't invite foreign interference in our elections. He won't set back climate change progress and pandemic response. As you can see, it's not so much about what Biden will do, it's about what he won't do.

 

[ren hoek]

Do you want another conservative hack on the supreme court? Because that's how you get another conservative hack on the supreme court.

Like Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia?  

Biden is unlikely to accomplish anything meaningful, but he won't brazenly break laws/commit impeachable offenses while making us the laughing stock of the world. He won't invite foreign interference in our elections. He won't set back climate change progress and pandemic response. As you can see, it's not so much about what Biden will do, it's about what he won't do.

This is just centrist talking points.  They did brazenly break laws and commit impeachable offenses- for example, killing a 16 year old boy that was a US citizen with a drone strike, and never apologizing for it.  Maintaining a Kill List and expanding the surveillance state.  Overthrowing Libya and turning it into an ISIS-dominated failed state.  Backing a coup in Ukraine.  They weren't a laughing stock, and neither is Trump- they are the figureheads of a brutal empire that is destroying the planet, in service to an oligarchy that doesn't give a #### about us.  

Look no further than their response to the Flint water crisis.  Obama pretended to drink the water in Flint and gave their criminal governor the PR cover he needed.  Twenty-eight percent of students in Flint are in special needs classes, and it’s linked to being poisoned during development.  They abandoned those people to die.  Just like they abandoned homeowners to save the banks.  Their pandemic response would be to "listen to the science," and then do nothing.  

Even right now, today, Democrats are going along with Republicans to bail out corporations.  They're on like Stimulus Package #4 and they still haven't done a ####### thing for frontline workers- no hazard pay, no paid leave, no PPE.  The same people that let Trump pack the federal courts so they could go home early.  They give Trump billions of dollars to blow on pointless wars for oil, renew the Patriot Act, they close ranks to block out progressive challengers in their own party. 

What part of them doing this over and over again makes you think I want them in power?  I am so tired of being scolded into supporting a party I don't believe in, that has betrayed working people time and time again- and how this is constantly twisted to mean 'well i guess you support trump then!!!'  

 

[FF Ninja]

Like Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia?  

This is just centrist talking points.  They did brazenly break laws and commit impeachable offenses- for example, killing a 16 year old boy that was a US citizen with a drone strike, and never apologizing for it.  Maintaining a Kill List and expanding the surveillance state.  Overthrowing Libya and turning it into an ISIS-dominated failed state.  Backing a coup in Ukraine.  They weren't a laughing stock, and neither is Trump- they are the figureheads of a brutal empire that is destroying the planet, in service to an oligarchy that doesn't give a #### about us.  

Look no further than their response to the Flint water crisis.  Obama pretended to drink the water in Flint and gave their criminal governor the PR cover he needed.  Twenty-eight percent of students in Flint are in special needs classes, and it’s linked to being poisoned during development.  They abandoned those people to die.  Just like they abandoned homeowners to save the banks.  Their pandemic response would be to "listen to the science," and then do nothing.  

Even right now, today, Democrats are going along with Republicans to bail out corporations.  They're on like Stimulus Package #4 and they still haven't done a ####### thing for frontline workers- no hazard pay, no paid leave, no PPE.  The same people that let Trump pack the federal courts so they could go home early.  They give Trump billions of dollars to blow on pointless wars for oil, renew the Patriot Act, they close ranks to block out progressive challengers in their own party. 

What part of them doing this over and over again makes you think I want them in power?  I am so tired of being scolded into supporting a party I don't believe in, that has betrayed working people time and time again- and how this is constantly twisted to mean 'well i guess you support trump then!!!'  

The important thing is they will not be like Kavanaugh.

I'm not defending any of the items you mentioned, but you've got to take a step back and try to put a weight to it. Nobody is saying the Democrats have been perfect. But you're fooling yourself with these false equivalencies/whataboutism. In no uncertain terms, the Republicans have been worse.

If you're being honest with yourself, you may not want Democrats in power, but you want Republicans in power even less. And one of them will be in power. So vote third party at your own peril.

Signed,

Someone who voted third party in 2016

 

[ren hoek]

The important thing is they will not be like Kavanaugh.

I'm not defending any of the items you mentioned, but you've got to take a step back and try to put a weight to it. Nobody is saying the Democrats have been perfect. But you're fooling yourself with these false equivalencies/whataboutism. In no uncertain terms, the Republicans have been worse.

If you're being honest with yourself, you may not want Democrats in power, but you want Republicans in power even less. And one of them will be in power. So vote third party at your own peril.

Signed,

Someone who voted third party in 2016

You’re right- one or the other morally, ethically, spiritually bankrupt parties will probably win.  But it won’t be because of me.  

 

[Thunderlips]

 Biden is a much superior choice than Trump; simply based on his judiciary choices.  Between that and the Republican tendency to attempt to suppress voting rights..it's a no brainer.  

 

[Kal El]

You’re right- one or the other morally, ethically, spiritually bankrupt parties will probably win.  But it won’t be because of me.  

Look, I don't like being forced into a corner here either, but if I have to choose between a person who can defeat Trump and a third party candidate who has no chance at winning, I'm going to try and defeat Trump. Yes, both parties are morally, spiritually, and ethically bankrupt, and believe me when I say in any other election, I'm voting 3rd party. But I will not sit idly by and twiddle my thumbs as Trump drives this nation into the ground. It's terrible that this nation has come to this, but this is where we are. If I can give my kids a chance to spend 4 years in a country that's not being torn apart, I'm going to take it.

 

[ren hoek]

Look, I don't like being forced into a corner here either, but if I have to choose between a person who can defeat Trump and a third party candidate who has no chance at winning, I'm going to try and defeat Trump. Yes, both parties are morally, spiritually, and ethically bankrupt, and believe me when I say in any other election, I'm voting 3rd party. But I will not sit idly by and twiddle my thumbs as Trump drives this nation into the ground. It's terrible that this nation has come to this, but this is where we are. If I can give my kids a chance to spend 4 years in a country that's not being torn apart, I'm going to take it.

The only people twiddling their thumbs are the ones that continue to prop up this system.  And the longer we prop it up, the more time it has to consolidate power & crush third party bids.  I view Trump as the natural response to 16 years of Bush/Obama.  The time to get real about addressing these problems isn't after another 4 years of feckless, milquetoast garbage, it's right now, more than ever.  

The only reason 3rd parties have 'no chance of winning' is because people pick the less ####ty candidate out of fear too many people will pick the more ####ty candidate.  But I don't even think Biden would be better than Trump.  Just the other day he waffled on whether he would lift Trump's sanctions on Iran in the middle of a pandemic.  Sanctions that are killing thousands of people during a global health crisis.  Like, are you ####### kidding me? 

I think he'd look at Trump and say 'wow jack, look at all the things I could get away with now.'  

 

[ren hoek]

 Biden is a much superior choice than Trump; simply based on his judiciary choices.  Between that and the Republican tendency to attempt to suppress voting rights..it's a no brainer.  

Biden helped Clarence Thomas and humiliated his accuser.  He voted to confirm Scalia.  

The NY board of elections just canceled the primary in NY.  In 2016, they deleted hundreds of thousands of people from their voter rolls.  Pelosi couldn't even bother to set up remote voting for her own Congressional reps, allowing one of the most consequential bills in history to pass through a voice vote.  It is still the party of super delegates.  They've encouraged voters to vote in the middle of a pandemic, and refused to postpone primaries to setup mail-in voting.  

Both parties are trash.  They need to be dismantled and launched toward the sun.  

 

[Kal El]

The only people twiddling their thumbs are the ones that continue to prop up this system.  And the longer we prop it up, the more time it has to consolidate power & crush third party bids.  I view Trump as the natural response to 16 years of Bush/Obama.  The time to get real about addressing these problems isn't after another 4 years of feckless, milquetoast garbage, it's right now, more than ever.  

The only reason 3rd parties have 'no chance of winning' is because people pick the less ####ty candidate out of fear too many people will pick the more ####ty candidate.  But I don't even think Biden would be better than Trump.  Just the other day he waffled on whether he would lift Trump's sanctions on Iran in the middle of a pandemic.  Sanctions that are killing thousands of people during a global health crisis.  Like, are you ####### kidding me? 

I think he'd look at Trump and say 'wow jack, look at all the things I could get away with now.'  

That's because the only time 3rd parties get airtime is during presidential elections, and even then, it's because at least one party's nomination is legitimately insane. If we want actual change, we have to start at the local level, not with a random candidate who was a Republican or Democrat as recently as 8 months ago. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

That's because the only time 3rd parties get airtime is during presidential elections, and even then, it's because at least one party's nomination is legitimately insane. If we want actual change, we have to start at the local level, not with a random candidate who was a Republican or Democrat as recently as 8 months ago. 

Not to mention it can help one of the other 2 parties win by stealing more of one side's votes.

 

[KiddLattimer]

Not to mention it can help one of the other 2 parties win by stealing more of one side's votes.

Sounds like we'll have 4 significant candidates this time if Jesse runs ... Would be a nice balance 

 

[ren hoek]

Not to mention it can help one of the other 2 parties win by stealing more of one side's votes.

They're not "stealing" a side's votes though.  People vote 3rd party because the mainline parties don't come to them.  It's the politician's job to reach out to the voters, not the other way around.  They don't "belong" to a party.  

If you want green party votes, then quit raking in cash and hiring campaign operatives from the fossil fuel lobby. 

If you want libertarian party votes, then start caring about civil liberties and drug policy and mass incarceration (and ending wars).  

Neither party wants to be accountable for anything, so they make it about shaming the voters.  The only way people will get these concessions from the major parties is by not letting them hold their votes hostage.  

 

[shadrap]

I'm all in your third paragraph politically, especially the end the war stuff.   get our guys home from a sand swept land of religious battles from the beginning of time.  the more things change over there(middle east) the more they remain the same.  IMO

that alone would pay for medicare for all.  I think.

 

[kface]

Honestly the system needs to be blown up but I just don't know how it happens in this country.  It certainly isn't Trump who is mostly just consolidating power in the executive office

 

[Kal El]

Honestly the system needs to be blown up but I just don't know how it happens in this country.  It certainly isn't Trump who is mostly just consolidating power in the executive office

That's the style of government we originally rebelled against.

 

[Stealthycat]

vote blue no matter who and no matter who they assaulted :(

 

[kface]

That's the style of government we originally rebelled against.

And 40% of the country can't see what's happening...i would love to just see us go to proportional representation where most of the world is moving now

 

[Apple Jack]

vote blue no matter who and no matter who they assaulted :(

absolutely, though one allegation is certainly fewer than the allegations against the guy in office.

 

[Kal El]

And 40% of the country can't see what's happening...i would love to just see us go to proportional representation where most of the world is moving now

I'm a bit suspicious of doing so, because rural areas would be pretty consistently outvoted, but there definitely needs to be an overhaul.

 

[Kal El]

absolutely, though one allegation is certainly fewer than the allegations against the guy in office.

It's definitely not a good look for Biden, though. Why are people apparently unable to keep their hands to themselves?

 

[Apple Jack]

It's definitely not a good look for Biden, though. Why are people apparently unable to keep their hands to themselves?

Of course, I agree. But we are not in a position to get picky at this point. No matter who is put forward, there will be "fatal" smear campaigns, valid or not. We have to put the pin back in the grenade.

 

[Kal El]

Of course, I agree. But we are not in a position to get picky at this point. No matter who is put forward, there will be "fatal" smear campaigns, valid or not. We have to put the pin back in the grenade.

True enough. How far we as a nation have fallen. The single best guy to have the top job was the first one, and he didn't even want it.

 

[sho nuff]

Of course, I agree. But we are not in a position to get picky at this point. No matter who is put forward, there will be "fatal" smear campaigns, valid or not. We have to put the pin back in the grenade.

And its definitely hollow criticism when it comes from people who have supported Trump for the last 4 years.

 

[BobbyLayne]

vote blue no matter who and no matter who they assaulted :(

Who are you voting for this fall?

 

[Stealthycat]

Who are you voting for this fall?

I might not

seriously

I don't HAVE to vote for either of them. I once upon a time delved into all the accusations on Trump .. only his wife's bothered me. 

 

[whoknew]

I might not

seriously

I don't HAVE to vote for either of them. I once upon a time delved into all the accusations on Trump .. only his wife's bothered me. 

He literally bragged about grabbing women by the vagina and walking into the Miss USA pageant dressing room to check out the women.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I might not

seriously

I don't HAVE to vote for either of them. I once upon a time delved into all the accusations on Trump .. only his wife's bothered me. 

she recanted IIRC - the account was pretty brutal

*sigh* 

I’m tired of old white guys running the country

- Sincerely,

Old White Guy

 

[whoknew]

she recanted IIRC - the account was pretty brutal

*sigh* 

I’m tired of old white guys running the country

- Sincerely,

Old White Guy

 

[kface]

I'm a bit suspicious of doing so, because rural areas would be pretty consistently outvoted, but there definitely needs to be an overhaul.

I'm not sure about this rural area thing...very few people live there.  Part of the problem now is rural areas hold way too much weight

Are we a democracy or not?  

 

[HellToupee]

I’m tired of old white guys running the country

- Sincerely,

Old White Guy

Old people in general 

 

[whoknew]

I'm a bit suspicious of doing so, because rural areas would be pretty consistently outvoted, but there definitely needs to be an overhaul.

Expand the House. By a lot. 

I think that would go a long way to solving some of the issues. And it makes a lot of sense.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Old people in general 

Growing up I was told to never trust anyone over 30

 

[[scooter]]

she recanted IIRC - the account was pretty brutal

For the record, Ivana never technically "recanted" her claim. She only said that she did not want her use of the word "rape" to be interpreted in a criminal sense.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I'm not sure about this rural area thing...very few people live there.  Part of the problem now is rural areas hold way too much weight

Are we a democracy or not?  

We're a representative democracy not a direct democracy.  So we have both elements of a republic and a democracy.

 

[roadkill1292]

We're one of the least representative democracies in the developed world. Our founding fathers' efforts, while good for their time, have clearly been surpassed.

 

[whoknew]

We're one of the least representative democracies in the developed world. Our founding fathers' efforts, while good for their time, have clearly been surpassed.

It hasn't grown beyond what the founding fathers set up - we just changed it for the worse. We need to expand the House.

From NYT - 

The House’s current size — 435 representatives — was set in 1911, when there were fewer than one-third as many people living in the United States as there are now. At the time, each member of Congress represented an average of about 200,000 people. In 2018, that number is almost 750,000.

This would shock the Constitution’s framers, who set a baseline of 30,000 constituents per representative and intended for the House to grow along with the population. The possibility that it might not — that Congress would fail to add new seats and that district populations would expand out of control — led James Madison to propose what would have been the original First Amendment: a formula explicitly tying the size of the House to the total number of Americans.

The amendment failed, but Congress still expanded the House throughout the first half of the nation’s existence. The House of Representatives had 65 members when it was first seated in 1789, and it grew in every decade but one until 1920, when it became frozen in time.

 

[kface]

We're a representative democracy not a direct democracy.  So we have both elements of a republic and a democracy.

I understand that, but at some point if 90% of the population is urban the rural shouldn't have as much say.  That is not even a representative democracy...

 

[Snotbubbles]

I understand that, but at some point if 90% of the population is urban the rural shouldn't have as much say.  That is not even a representative democracy...

Not really following.  Why does it matter if the population is urban or rural?  Every state has both urban and rural populations.  Say for a general election, both the urban and rural votes are tallied together within each state.  The House of Representative is your population representation so your urban areas get more reps.        

 

[roadkill1292]

It hasn't grown beyond what the founding fathers set up - we just changed it for the worse. We need to expand the House.

From NYT - 

The House’s current size — 435 representatives — was set in 1911, when there were fewer than one-third as many people living in the United States as there are now. At the time, each member of Congress represented an average of about 200,000 people. In 2018, that number is almost 750,000.

This would shock the Constitution’s framers, who set a baseline of 30,000 constituents per representative and intended for the House to grow along with the population. The possibility that it might not — that Congress would fail to add new seats and that district populations would expand out of control — led James Madison to propose what would have been the original First Amendment: a formula explicitly tying the size of the House to the total number of Americans.

The amendment failed, but Congress still expanded the House throughout the first half of the nation’s existence. The House of Representatives had 65 members when it was first seated in 1789, and it grew in every decade but one until 1920, when it became frozen in time.

Implementation of the Wyoming Rule is long overdue. That alone will bring the House to about 550 members. 

After that, pass the gd FRA.

 

[kface]

Not really following.  Why does it matter if the population is urban or rural?  Every state has both urban and rural populations.  Say for a general election, both the urban and rural votes are tallied together within each state.  The House of Representative is your population representation so your urban areas get more reps.        

It's just the general voting density I'm concerned about long-term.  

 

[Stealthycat]

He literally bragged about grabbing women by the vagina and walking into the Miss USA pageant dressing room to check out the women.

I don't know about "bragging" but he was talking about how women throw themselves at billionaires .... as for the pageant, google " Biden touching" and see the creepy ways he cuddles young kids

Biden is the focus - changing it to Trump doesn't change what Biden appears to be 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Biden is the focus - changing it to Trump doesn't change what Biden appears to be 

As long as they are running against each other of course they both matter.  If there isn't enough contrast between the two, it becomes less of point.

Trump once mentioned if Ivanka wasn't his daughter, he wouldn't mind dating her.  Is that creepy enough for you?

 

[whoknew]

I don't know about "bragging" but he was talking about how women throw themselves at billionaires .... as for the pageant, google " Biden touching" and see the creepy ways he cuddles young kids

Biden is the focus - changing it to Trump doesn't change what Biden appears to be 

lol. You were talking about Trump in the email to which I responded.

 

[Mile High]

Voted for Bernie on super Tuesday but will vote for who ever wins the Democratic nomination.  There's a culture war going on and I'm damm sure not going to set on the sidelines a watch the enemy win without a fight. 

 

[Bucsfan5493]

Sadly, this is my first time voting and feel forced to vote blue. Not a fan of Biden, but I've seen enough from Trump to realize what a mistake sitting out in 2016 was.

 

[Football Jones]

Voted for Bernie on super Tuesday but will vote for who ever wins the Democratic nomination.  There's a culture war going on and I'm damm sure not going to set on the sidelines a watch the enemy win without a fight. 

I feel the same, just the other way, LOL.

I've essentially been forced to get into the ugly game of politics. It makes me physically ill thinking what our country could become. We didn't become the greatest nation on Earth due to liberal ideals. I have two young grandchildren. End of discussion.

We The People, have had enough. I can no longer stomach "I own my body" despite a human living in it & the thought it's ok for biological males to compete against biological females, in high school sports, no less, robbing the girls of opportunity & the thrill of competition. And that's just the very, VERY tip of the iceberg.

Nobody is beating Crenshaw in 2024 if he decides to run, but regardless, I'm going to use my cerebral gifts & do my part in what I call, "resetting the clock". 

 

[sho nuff]

Crenshaw has zero chance in 2024 if he runs...(he won't).

And we didn't become the greatest nation due to the ideals of people like Donald Trump...

 

[Football Jones]

Crenshaw has zero chance in 2024 if he runs...(he won't).

And we didn't become the greatest nation due to the ideals of people like Donald Trump...

Crenshaw will beat ANYBODY. Not sure if he's running, though.

Anyway, the fascination with Trump is one of a million reasons I'm now on the warpath politically.

The Trump hate is akin to not seeing the forest for the trees.

 

[sho nuff]

Crenshaw will beat ANYBODY. Not sure if he's running, though.

Anyway, the fascination with Trump is one of a million reasons I'm now on the warpath politically.

The Trump hate is akin to not seeing the forest for the trees.

Trump hate is based on his long history of being a con man, a liar, and his words and actions as President.

Crenshaw...why would he beat anybody?  Because the right wing is pumping him up with his really poor youtube video from a few weeks ago?

 

[Football Jones]

Trump hate is based on his long history of being a con man, a liar, and his words and actions as President.

Crenshaw...why would he beat anybody?  Because the right wing is pumping him up with his really poor youtube video from a few weeks ago?

Haha.

Technically, I guess I should change my statement. Crenshaw would beat anybody on the horizon right now & very likely anybody that comes into play.

Dude is like gold.