VY Workout Results (1 Viewer)

[the hairy scotsman]

You are bias Texas fans  :X  

I guess we will find out Draft Day what the experts think

Biased....and what we'll find out on draft day is what the businessmen think. The money men count....right or wrong.

But for now, we know what Kubiak and Ted Thompson (2 of the top 5 picks) think, don't we.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

The things you say speak volumes of how little you know about Young, his character, what got him where he is, and the things he did to lead the Texas Football Team to an undefeated season and national championship.

And you are objective

Where did I say I was objective?It's pretty clear that all I said was that it is obvious cstu actually knows little about VY.

 

[cstu]

You are bias Texas fans :X

I guess we will find out Draft Day what the experts think

Biased....and what we'll find out on draft day is what the businessmen think. The money men count....right or wrong.

But for now, we know what Kubiak and Ted Thompson (2 of the top 5 picks) think, don't we.

Sure, because teams aren't known for blowing smoke prior to the draft are they?

 

[cracKer]

4th link down

John McClain to GB's Ted Thompson: You wouldn't take Vince when you have Aaron Rodgers and maybe Brett Favre, would you?

Ted Thompson: I go back to the Sam Bowie/Micheal Jordan situation. If you have a chance to get Micheal Jordan, you take Micheal Jordan.

What does Michael Jordan have to do with the NFL?

 

[Englishteacher]

Sean Salisbury is annoying. I think they put him on the air because he talks a lot. And he's a meathead. And he's stupid. According to him, the Texans will draft Young to go along with who he said like a year ago was "the best receiver in the NFL.......... Andre Johnson."

OK Sean, I'm currently drunk AND I remeber my first beer too. I just think the guy is easily excitable, feels too much pressure to say something smart and on key, when he's in the bottom 10th of NFL analysts out there.

That said, I have no idea about Vince Young. I think the jury is still out. The thing I don't like is he's a QB and nobody seems to be able to come to a consensus on whether he'll be a good passer or not.

As for his running ability, I like that he's 6-5 and 230 and would feel more confident having him lead my team in that capacity than the diminuitive Vick who's one blindside hit away from being out a whole year. Ho de do.

 

[Chitown Mole]

It's pretty clear that all I said was that it is obvious cstu actually knows little about VY.

This has been a strange off season. Tons of people have lost credibility this off-season. I've watched Young's entire 30-2 run at Texas and can't believe the ignorance. People would rather hang on to an argument about silly things that have nothing to do with football than to just watch the games. It’s just incredibly obvious many of the people who comment on VY have never really watched much more than the Rose bowl. They just hang on to scuttlebutt as they know that once VY starts to dominate in the NFL like he has done on every level he has ever played that these threads will all be long gong.

 

[ImTheScientist]

You are bias Texas fans  :X  

I guess we will find out Draft Day what the experts think

Biased....and what we'll find out on draft day is what the businessmen think. The money men count....right or wrong.

But for now, we know what Kubiak and Ted Thompson (2 of the top 5 picks) think, don't we.

You have the number 1 pick in a draft...............wouldn't you say everyone was great.......it kind of improves the value of your pick in the case of a trade.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

It's pretty clear that all I said was that it is obvious cstu actually knows little about VY.

This has been a strange off season. Tons of people have lost credibility this off-season. I've watched Young's entire 30-2 run at Texas and can't believe the ignorance. People would rather hang on to an argument about silly things that have nothing to do with football than to just watch the games. It’s just incredibly obvious many of the people who comment on VY have never really watched much more than the Rose bowl. They just hang on to scuttlebutt as they know that once VY starts to dominate in the NFL like he has done on every level he has ever played that these threads will all be long gong.

Yeah...this is a lot like when I and a few others came on here before the Rose Bowl predicting a good game between Texas and SC. The overwhelming response was that that was just homerism and that I had no idea what I was talking about, despite the fact that I was the only one backing up my side of the discussion with any football analysis. The game went on and almost every single thing I predicted about that game came to fruition.

People said defending VY would be simple for PC. Just take away the run, they said, and make him beat you through the air. Didn't OU and Ohio St try that? Or just confuse him with a disguised cover 2...which PC tried. Funny thing is, they hadn't been watching for the last 20 games as better defenses than SC's tried to slow Vince and the Texas offense with everything in the book, enjoying little success, none of it lasting more than about a quarter and a half.

Every day on this board you see people soliciting advice about certain players from the homer's perspective. But when it comes to Vince Young, I'm just a "bias" Texas fan, homer, or the like.

So be it.

Sometimes the homer knows something you don't.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

You are bias Texas fans  :X  

I guess we will find out Draft Day what the experts think

Biased....and what we'll find out on draft day is what the businessmen think. The money men count....right or wrong.

But for now, we know what Kubiak and Ted Thompson (2 of the top 5 picks) think, don't we.

You have the number 1 pick in a draft...............wouldn't you say everyone was great.......it kind of improves the value of your pick in the case of a trade.

Absolutely. That's what I thought when they were talking up Vince a few weeks ago, and when they were trying to sell everyone the idea that they were dead-set on taking RB.Doesn't mean they don't believe the hype about either one of those guys, though.

 

[BigTex]

From another site:

From the mouth of Sean Salsbury

You would have thought it was Rose Bowl media day with all of the media present. I've never seen that many people at a workout. Huff was there of course, but most everyone was there to see Young.

-I've never seen a college football QB throw with that kind of zip. It was bordering on unbelieveable. He threw everything and had great touch.

-The ball hit the ground 5 times out of 54 passes. Two overthrows and three drops.

-I gave him an A- just because I would like to see him run a bit faster.

-You will have scouts down his mechanics tomorrow. Don't change him. He is a playmaker.

-When his arm comes to maturity, it will be unbelievable.

-His footwork was really good, but then again there was no pass rush.

-He will likely go in the top 5.

-When he scrambles to his left, he forces his body into the correct throwing position.

-Watching him his incompletions will be over-thrown.

-I'm not trying to make to big a deal out of it, but you have to call what is impressive, impressive.

-The ball just jumps off of his hand. I didn't expect him to be that accurate. He really impressed me.

-Texans Coach Gary Kubiak had one word after the workout "Excellent".

He said to me "I wish we could have played with that kind of ability"

-Saban, McCarthy ad Kubiak were there. There were some Cowboy scouts there.

-If he doesn't get picked in the top 5, some teams are stupid. If you saw this workout today, and you like Leinart more, you better wait to see Leinart again on his pro day.

What exactly does this mean? How does one's arm come to maturity? At what age does it come to maturity?

 

[Gargoylez]

Asked to compare Young's workout to one given last Friday by Vanderbilt's Jay Cutler in cold weather and swirling winds, one scout said told Mortensen, "There was no comparison. Cutler made all the throws in tough conditions while Young limited his range of throws and he was indoors."

A little smoke and mirrors please....

 

[Gargoylez]

From another site:

From the mouth of Sean Salsbury

You would have thought it was Rose Bowl media day with all of the media present. I've never seen that many people at a workout. Huff was there of course, but most everyone was there to see Young.

-I've never seen a college football QB throw with that kind of zip. It was bordering on unbelieveable. He threw everything and had great touch.

-The ball hit the ground 5 times out of 54 passes. Two overthrows and three drops.

-I gave him an A- just because I would like to see him run a bit faster.

-You will have scouts down his mechanics tomorrow. Don't change him. He is a playmaker.

-When his arm comes to maturity, it will be unbelievable.

-His footwork was really good, but then again there was no pass rush.

-He will likely go in the top 5.

-When he scrambles to his left, he forces his body into the correct throwing position.

-Watching him his incompletions will be over-thrown.

-I'm not trying to make to big a deal out of it, but you have to call what is impressive, impressive.

-The ball just jumps off of his hand. I didn't expect him to be that accurate. He really impressed me.

-Texans Coach Gary Kubiak had one word after the workout "Excellent".

He said to me "I wish we could have played with that kind of ability"

-Saban, McCarthy ad Kubiak were there. There were some Cowboy scouts there.

-If he doesn't get picked in the top 5, some teams are stupid. If you saw this workout today, and you like Leinart more, you better wait to see Leinart again on his pro day.

What exactly does this mean? How does one's arm come to maturity? At what age does it come to maturity?

When he grows hair on it???

 

[B-Deep]

I should just stop reading Vince Young topics, because they all end up being the same things

here are the only FACTS we know about Vince Young in the NFL

1) THERE ARE NO SURE THINGS PERIOD END OF STORY. All of the vince young lovers out there stop saying he "will dominate in the NFL" because you just cannot know that. A sure thing does not exist, never has, and Vince isn't it.

2) EVERY QUATERBACK EVER HAS HAD THINGS THAT POINTED TO BEING A POSSIBLE FLOP. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT ANYONE KNOWS VINCE WILL FLOP. This is for the VY haters, newsflash there is no perfect QB prospect, there are going to be faults with everyone, anyone can pick parts of a players game and point to that as why the person will flop in the NFL. This is why the scouts are not posting on message boards right now, because they are trying hard to guess at what a player will do. If you think you can do their job better than they can you are mistaken.

What we know about Vince is that he looked incredible in college, there is obviously skill there, and no matter if he gets drafted 1st or 31st he'll get a chance to develop his talent and eventually show us what he can do.

Now on to the workout. The 40 time doesn't really bother me, anyone who is worried that VY doesn't have the football speed to be effective is fooling themselves. Just watch the dude run, watch some game film. The fact that he felt he could blow of the 40, and never trained for it, and then was pressured into changing his mind DOES bother me.

I agree with a few of the haters that this kids post Rose Bowl period has been a disaster of one screw up after another. Someone needs to tell VY he's being handled by idiots. Does this affect his draftability? Not really, although it does concern me over how hard it could be to negotiate a contract with the buffoons that are running his show. That being said I would probably not downgrade him a single slot for it. IF I had him and Leinart or Cutler even on my board, then it could be part of the tie breaker, but that's about it.

If I could wave a magic wand over the shark pool and change one thing it would be to have everyone take a huge step towards the center of the whole VY debate. It is one thing to have an opinion, but people act like they have some crystal ball that tells them that Vince will either be the next Ryan Leaf, or the greatest QB ever.

For my money I'll wager something in between.

 

[nygiants56]

Vince Young = Aaron Brooks if he had been on a great college team

how dare you insult Aaron Brooks like that..

lol

VY is a cross between Akili Smith and Kordell Stewart..

and about as overhyped as Ryan Leaf or, dare I say, HEATH SHULER....

Mort was saying on ESPN's Mike & Mike show this morning, that VY is going somewhere between 6-10 in the NFL draft, and that he neither helped nor hurt himself with the workouts..that he is what he is, a work in progress, essentially..

Kiper was beside himself , touting VY as a top 1-3 pick, and the only reason that he is in the 6-10 range is that the teams at the top (N.O.)signed guys like Brees, Ramsey (NYJ), etc..

Maybe that's the reason why Kiper works for ESPN, and NOT for an NFL team??

lol

 

[stbugs]

Vince Young = Aaron Brooks if he had been on a great college team

how dare you insult Aaron Brooks like that..

lol

VY is a cross between Akili Smith and Kordell Stewart..

and about as overhyped as Ryan Leaf or, dare I say, HEATH SHULER....

Mort was saying on ESPN's Mike & Mike show this morning, that VY is going somewhere between 6-10 in the NFL draft, and that he neither helped nor hurt himself with the workouts..that he is what he is, a work in progress, essentially..

Kiper was beside himself , touting VY as a top 1-3 pick, and the only reason that he is in the 6-10 range is that the teams at the top (N.O.)signed guys like Brees, Ramsey (NYJ), etc..

Maybe that's the reason why Kiper works for ESPN, and NOT for an NFL team??

lol

Doesn't Mort work for ESPN too?

 

[Jason Wood]

Vince Young = Aaron Brooks if he had been on a great college team

how dare you insult Aaron Brooks like that..

lol

VY is a cross between Akili Smith and Kordell Stewart..

and about as overhyped as Ryan Leaf or, dare I say, HEATH SHULER....

Mort was saying on ESPN's Mike & Mike show this morning, that VY is going somewhere between 6-10 in the NFL draft, and that he neither helped nor hurt himself with the workouts..that he is what he is, a work in progress, essentially..

Kiper was beside himself , touting VY as a top 1-3 pick, and the only reason that he is in the 6-10 range is that the teams at the top (N.O.)signed guys like Brees, Ramsey (NYJ), etc..

Maybe that's the reason why Kiper works for ESPN, and NOT for an NFL team??

lol

Actually if one of the two was being self serving, it was Mort. Mort went on first and was asked about Vince Young's workout. He tried to puff himself up by saying he spoke with five personnel people [on five teams] after the workout and the consensus was it was a "good" workout, not a "great" one. He then, pretty much unsolicited, started talking about how Cutler's Pro Day was "really impressive in the windy conditions" and how he was, now, ahead of Young in terms of draft ranking.Now, as most on the Shark Pool know, Mort has, unjustifiably IMHO, touted Cutler as the BEST QB for months now and has, at every turn, blown smoke up Cutler's a@@ despite not being an evaluator of college talent himself.

Where you can see the cracks in Mort's armor is Cutler versus Leinart. Before the draft process really got going, Mort proudly shouted that "insiders" thought more of Cutler than even Leinart in some circles. Today, because he now realizes how imbecilic that was, he backed off and said CLEARLY Leinart is the guy.

Kiper was beside himself, I haven't heard him so fired up in a long time. But his overarching point was a credible one. If you liked Vince Young after the Rose Bowl, he's done nothing to convince you otherwise. If you didn't like Vince Young after the Rose Bowl, he's done nothing to make you change your opinion. He then echoed that sentiment toward Jay Cutler.

Kiper actually laughed on air [and Greeny called him on it] when Golic started talking about how Cutler was "throwing in the wind." Kiper lost it and said Cutler is one of the most overhyped players in recent memory.

 

[Hawk]

Vince Young = Aaron Brooks if he had been on a great college team

how dare you insult Aaron Brooks like that..

lol

VY is a cross between Akili Smith and Kordell Stewart..

and about as overhyped as Ryan Leaf or, dare I say, HEATH SHULER....

Mort was saying on ESPN's Mike & Mike show this morning, that VY is going somewhere between 6-10 in the NFL draft, and that he neither helped nor hurt himself with the workouts..that he is what he is, a work in progress, essentially..

Kiper was beside himself , touting VY as a top 1-3 pick, and the only reason that he is in the 6-10 range is that the teams at the top (N.O.)signed guys like Brees, Ramsey (NYJ), etc..

Maybe that's the reason why Kiper works for ESPN, and NOT for an NFL team??

lol

Actually if one of the two was being self serving, it was Mort. Mort went on first and was asked about Vince Young's workout. He tried to puff himself up by saying he spoke with five personnel people [on five teams] after the workout and the consensus was it was a "good" workout, not a "great" one. He then, pretty much unsolicited, started talking about how Cutler's Pro Day was "really impressive in the windy conditions" and how he was, now, ahead of Young in terms of draft ranking.Now, as most on the Shark Pool know, Mort has, unjustifiably IMHO, touted Cutler as the BEST QB for months now and has, at every turn, blown smoke up Cutler's a@@ despite not being an evaluator of college talent himself.

Where you can see the cracks in Mort's armor is Cutler versus Leinart. Before the draft process really got going, Mort proudly shouted that "insiders" thought more of Cutler than even Leinart in some circles. Today, because he now realizes how imbecilic that was, he backed off and said CLEARLY Leinart is the guy.

Kiper was beside himself, I haven't heard him so fired up in a long time. But his overarching point was a credible one. If you liked Vince Young after the Rose Bowl, he's done nothing to convince you otherwise. If you didn't like Vince Young after the Rose Bowl, he's done nothing to make you change your opinion. He then echoed that sentiment toward Jay Cutler.

Kiper actually laughed on air [and Greeny called him on it] when Golic started talking about how Cutler was "throwing in the wind." Kiper lost it and said Cutler is one of the most overhyped players in recent memory.

I can say this, all the reports of the workout I have read have been pretty positive except for one brief snippet on ESPN.com that focused on his 40 time, and the reports from Mort. This does not surprise me because Mort has always been negative about VY ever since Texas beat Arkansas and Mort's big read on the game was that Matt Jones is a better QB than Vince. Ever since, for whatever reason, Mort has gone out of his way to pump Matt Jones and diss VY. Maybe it's because Mort's son played behind Matt Jones at QB at Arkansas, who knows, but either way, Mort seems to be firmly in the minority regarding his take on VY's workout based on what I've read (which is a lot).

 

[Barry Jive and The Uptown Five]

I can't wait for Draft day....

When some team drafts Cutler and leaves VY on the board, Kiper is going to go "Bill Polian" ballistic on the set.

 

[Jason Wood]

I can't wait for Draft day....

When some team drafts Cutler and leaves VY on the board, Kiper is going to go "Bill Polian" ballistic on the set.

Actually Mel, unlike Mort, really showed his depth today by going into a pretty long and off the cuff discussion about the litany of solid QBs that fell behind other guys and ultimately were much better pros. He threw out names like Blackledge before Jim Kelly, Couch before McNabb, the Bengals passing on Esiason thrice in the 1st round before taking him, Favre falling to the 2nd round, etc...Kiper made a very important point today, where a player gets drafted is hardly correlated to what their ultimate level of success is in the league.

 

[B-Deep]

Kiper made a very important point today, where a player gets drafted is hardly correlated to what their ultimate level of success is in the league.

That cannot be said strongly enough! What's the over/under on how many "I told you so" threads come in here draft day after VY is either taken high or falls a few spots?

 

[Kleck.]

I can't wait for Draft day....

When some team drafts Cutler and leaves VY on the board, Kiper is going to go "Bill Polian" ballistic on the set. 

Actually Mel, unlike Mort, really showed his depth today by going into a pretty long and off the cuff discussion about the litany of solid QBs that fell behind other guys and ultimately were much better pros. He threw out names like Blackledge before Jim Kelly, Couch before McNabb, the Bengals passing on Esiason thrice in the 1st round before taking him, Favre falling to the 2nd round, etc...Kiper made a very important point today, where a player gets drafted is hardly correlated to what their ultimate level of success is in the league.

That was a great segment on M&M.

 

[Bevo]

I can't wait for Draft day....

When some team drafts Cutler and leaves VY on the board, Kiper is going to go "Bill Polian" ballistic on the set. 

Actually Mel, unlike Mort, really showed his depth today by going into a pretty long and off the cuff discussion about the litany of solid QBs that fell behind other guys and ultimately were much better pros. He threw out names like Blackledge before Jim Kelly, Couch before McNabb, the Bengals passing on Esiason thrice in the 1st round before taking him, Favre falling to the 2nd round, etc...Kiper made a very important point today, where a player gets drafted is hardly correlated to what their ultimate level of success is in the league.

This a reason why, as a VY fan, I wouldn't have that much of a problem seeing him slide a bit and go to a better team. I know he wants the money and the prestige but it could very easily be better for his long term career to slide into a situation like maybe the Cardinals. Go to a team with good WRs and a good RB. Sit on the bench and learn from a veteran like Warner for 8 or 9 games before taking over because Warner adds another notch to his forehead with yet another concussion!

 

[Bojang0301]

I can't wait for Draft day....

When some team drafts Cutler and leaves VY on the board, Kiper is going to go "Bill Polian" ballistic on the set. 

Actually Mel, unlike Mort, really showed his depth today by going into a pretty long and off the cuff discussion about the litany of solid QBs that fell behind other guys and ultimately were much better pros. He threw out names like Blackledge before Jim Kelly, Couch before McNabb, the Bengals passing on Esiason thrice in the 1st round before taking him, Favre falling to the 2nd round, etc...Kiper made a very important point today, where a player gets drafted is hardly correlated to what their ultimate level of success is in the league.

And if Vince falls to Zona where he'll be able to sit for a year or two and play with Fitz and Boldin I will not hesistate for a second to take him as high as fourth in my dynasty league.

 

[kingmalaki]

Man, some of y'all sound like my GF at times...harping on things just to harp on them. Please get off the "his handlers are screwing up", at least in regards to this workout. They knew that everyone would want to see him pass, and they hired a QB's coach to work with him and help him get ready for what was obviously a successful passing display. Why not give them props for that??? Or at least if you are gonna call them stupid, be fair and acknowledge the things they got right.

Most in the anti-VY group claim they don't want their QB spending all day running anyway, not y'all wanna harp on his 40 time after he has a good passing display? A 40 that he decided to run out of the blue? Here is what someone else thought of his 40:

Although Young wasn't scheduled to run Wednesday, he said he wanted to after watching some of his teammates do it.

"They wanted to see me run, so I ran," he said.

The change of heart impressed Kubiak.

"He's very competitive and got in an environment where everybody wanted to see him operate," Kubiak said. "He did a great job."

 

[Jason Wood]

Man, some of y'all sound like my GF at times...harping on things just to harp on them. Please get off the "his handlers are screwing up", at least in regards to this workout. They knew that everyone would want to see him pass, and they hired a QB's coach to work with him and help him get ready for what was obviously a successful passing display. Why not give them props for that??? Or at least if you are gonna call them stupid, be fair and acknowledge the things they got right.

Most in the anti-VY group claim they don't want their QB spending all day running anyway, not y'all wanna harp on his 40 time after he has a good passing display? A 40 that he decided to run out of the blue? Here is what someone else thought of his 40:

Although Young wasn't scheduled to run Wednesday, he said he wanted to after watching some of his teammates do it.

"They wanted to see me run, so I ran," he said.

The change of heart impressed Kubiak.

"He's very competitive and got in an environment where everybody wanted to see him operate," Kubiak said. "He did a great job."

While I still have an issue with the Wonderlic [b/c he knew he had to take the test], I agree with the proVY camp on this 40-time. The headline on the front page of ESPN.com is "Young's 40-time slower than expected." Yet, that really is disingenuous. Had Young planned on running the 40, he would've gotten into the 4.4s without a problem; I have ZERO doubt of that. But he hadn't planned on running, figuring the scouts were much more interested in his arm strength and mechanics. But when asked to run, he did so. If anything, I think that HELPED him at the margin.

 

[Orange Crush]

i'm not his biggest fan by any means, but this is getting absurd. people are inventing reasons to not like him.

edit: the most legitimate criticism is his poor choice of representation and lack of preparation

The poor representation would be a reason to take him. If you think he's worth the draft slot, take him and get ready to own his agents in the contract negotiations (a la Ricky Williams).

 

[ImTheScientist]

Man, some of y'all sound like my GF at times...harping on things just to harp on them.  Please get off the "his handlers are screwing up", at least in regards to this workout.  They knew that everyone would want to see him pass, and they hired a QB's coach to work with him and help him get ready for what was obviously a successful passing display.  Why not give them props for that???  Or at least if you are gonna call them stupid, be fair and acknowledge the things they got right.

Most in the anti-VY group claim they don't want their QB spending all day running anyway, not y'all wanna harp on his 40 time after he has a good passing display?  A 40 that he decided to run out of the blue?  Here is what someone else thought of his 40:

Although Young wasn't scheduled to run Wednesday, he said he wanted to after watching some of his teammates do it.

"They wanted to see me run, so I ran," he said.

The change of heart impressed Kubiak.

"He's very competitive and got in an environment where everybody wanted to see him operate," Kubiak said. "He did a great job."

While I still have an issue with the Wonderlic [b/c he knew he had to take the test], I agree with the proVY camp on this 40-time. The headline on the front page of ESPN.com is "Young's 40-time slower than expected." Yet, that really is disingenuous. Had Young planned on running the 40, he would've gotten into the 4.4s without a problem; I have ZERO doubt of that. But he hadn't planned on running, figuring the scouts were much more interested in his arm strength and mechanics. But when asked to run, he did so. If anything, I think that HELPED him at the margin.

I would like to know how VY would have cut .13 seconds off his 40 time ........ knowing you are going to run makes you faster?

 

[ImTheScientist]

Found this on Rotoworld:

Profootballtalk.com reports that the Raiders were "all over" Vince Young after his Pro Day.Oakland is believed to desire Young, and may consider trading up to acquire him. He could potentially learn the team's offense under Aaron Brooks for a year. Insert 'Dumb and Dumber' joke here. Mar. 23 - 10:46 am et

Source: Profootballtalk.com

 

[ImTheScientist]

VINCE DIDN'T RE-TAKE THE WONDERLIC

Despite prior reports that Texas quarterback Vince Young would take another crack at the Wonderlic test in conjunction with his pro day workout, we're told that Young did not sit again for the 50-question general intelligence test.

It would have been a perfect opportunity for Young to do so, since the test is administered during pro day workouts to the draft-eligible players and any interested incoming seniors.

So he'll instead stand on his official score of 15.

Yet another error, in our view, by his agent. On one hand, taking the test again might have been an admission that the test is actually important to the overall process. On the other hand, he scored a freaking 15. On his second try.

How bad is a 15? When we gave 15 sample questions last month to Florio Jr. (a third-grader) with no advance notice and five minutes to work with, he got five questions right.

That projects to a 16.7.

 

[nygiants56]

Vince Young = Aaron Brooks if he had been on a great college team

how dare you insult Aaron Brooks like that..

lol

VY is a cross between Akili Smith and Kordell Stewart..

and about as overhyped as Ryan Leaf or, dare I say, HEATH SHULER....

Mort was saying on ESPN's Mike & Mike show this morning, that VY is going somewhere between 6-10 in the NFL draft, and that he neither helped nor hurt himself with the workouts..that he is what he is, a work in progress, essentially..

Kiper was beside himself , touting VY as a top 1-3 pick, and the only reason that he is in the 6-10 range is that the teams at the top (N.O.)signed guys like Brees, Ramsey (NYJ), etc..

Maybe that's the reason why Kiper works for ESPN, and NOT for an NFL team??

lol

Doesn't Mort work for ESPN too?

point is, Kiper is the ESPN draft guru, Mort isn't...Kiper's been way off on other players too..not killing either guy, just relaying the info that there was two sides to the story, Mort thinks VY drops and Kiper thinks that teams are insane to let him slide that far down..

 

[Unlucky]

Remember haters, it's not just one Rose Bowl that Young excelled in, but two. I like Young's leadership, ability to perform in big games, and his overall physical ability. I'll be surprised if he's a bust in the NFL.

 

[nygiants56]

I can't wait for Draft day....

When some team drafts Cutler and leaves VY on the board, Kiper is going to go "Bill Polian" ballistic on the set. 

Actually Mel, unlike Mort, really showed his depth today by going into a pretty long and off the cuff discussion about the litany of solid QBs that fell behind other guys and ultimately were much better pros. He threw out names like Blackledge before Jim Kelly, Couch before McNabb, the Bengals passing on Esiason thrice in the 1st round before taking him, Favre falling to the 2nd round, etc...Kiper made a very important point today, where a player gets drafted is hardly correlated to what their ultimate level of success is in the league.

i think it has alot to do with what system they are drafted into as well...

see Mike Vick, not the best fit for the WCO...PHil Simms went to a perfect system in NY, Marino in Miami, Montana in SF with the WCO..

 

[nygiants56]

interesting tidbits on a column about Kiper, paraphrased from slate.com:

"In the early '80s, Kiper made a name for himself by outhustling every draftnik in the country. He watched hundreds of hours of game tape, hung around college all-star games, and became a message board for agents, players, and general managers. He collected the info in his annual Draft Report, in which he ranked hundreds of prospects by position—all this when as late as the 1960s, some NFL teams showed up on Draft Day with nothing more than a college football magazine. Kiper joined ESPN just as the draft was becoming a made-for-TV event, and for a whole new generation of fans, Mel's opinion seemed to carry a lot of weight.

But it didn't. NFL teams spend far more time studying the draft than Kiper does, pouring millions into scouting every Kutztown offensive lineman and Bethune-Cookman nose tackle. Teams assemble their own rankings by inviting prospects in for workouts and by patrolling the league's annual draft combine—events Mel isn't privy to. (Kiper's Web site brags that he works in an office hard-wired to receive 20-25 college games a week, but everyone else with a satellite dish can do this, too). Although his Draft Report is a bible for fans, general managers basically ignore it

Judging by his mock drafts, Mel hasn't realized that. His Web site offers this ambiguous claim: "Mel's in-depth knowledge … has enabled him to accurately predict as much as 80 percent of first-round draft selections." Translation: At some point in the last two decades, 80 percent of the players Kiper thought would be drafted in the first round were drafted in the first round—never mind by what team or with which pick. Last year, Kiper didn't quite match that mark, but he still correctly predicted 77 percent of "first-round draft selections."

But when you look at his mock draft on a pick-by-pick basis—i.e., how he matched specific players with specific teams or, at least, specific picks—Kiper's batting average slipped to a dismal 29 percent. A few picks weren't even close. Three players he thought would be first-rounders fell more than 30 picks, and one, Georgia Tech wide receiver Dez White, fell 47 picks. Mel thought these players deserved to be first-round picks. The problem is, no NFL team agreed. It's Kiper's recurring fault: He substitutes his own rankings, which carry little weight, for in-depth reporting. And because he attempts only to understand the draft on his own terms, he doesn't understand it at all."

haha..read the whole thing here:

http://www.slate.com/id/104163/

 

[Chaos Commish]

Man, some of y'all sound like my GF at times...harping on things just to harp on them. Please get off the "his handlers are screwing up", at least in regards to this workout. They knew that everyone would want to see him pass, and they hired a QB's coach to work with him and help him get ready for what was obviously a successful passing display. Why not give them props for that??? Or at least if you are gonna call them stupid, be fair and acknowledge the things they got right.

His choice for representation and advisors certainly appears to be a mistake at this point. Yes, hiring Rhome was a good move. But even that was something they didn't think necessary until advised to do so by NFL teams. Rhome was already working with Reggie McNeal. Young was a couple weeks behind the other QBs when it came to hiring a coach and organizing his individual workout. I get the impression those surrounding Young think he is so marvelous that he can just show up and show off. They think he's so proven that he has little left to prove, and he's so awesome he'll prove it easily. It's been a recipe for blunder after blunder. The lack of professionalism and preparation in the pre-draft process probably has no affect on his future as an NFL QB, but it has been unfortunate for Vince. It may have cost him a few spots in the draft and a bunch of money. Maybe not, but it's part of the discussion and ignoring it is denial.

Had he hooked up with a seasoned agent from a professional, experienced firm, things would be going much better for him. He would have lodged at one of the training facilities like most of these guys do. He would have hooked up with a QB coach sooner. He would have worked with a sprints coach. He would have prepared for the Wonderlic. He would have dressed for the White House. He would have skipped the skills competition and been focused on more important things.

I think the guy's a beast, and I rate him the top QB in this class, and none of this changes that. A smooth run from the Rose Bowl to draft day probably would have a lot more people thinking the same way. That's unfortunate. He's going to be a target for criticism regardless, but the extra ammunitiuon was unnecessary.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I would like to know how VY would have cut .13 seconds off his 40 time ........ knowing you are going to run makes you faster?

By working with a sprint coach. Maurice Drew and Jeff Webb are great examples out here on the west coast this year. Two different cases who achieved great results. Drew has always been a track guy. He wanted to form an all football player relay team to compete this spring if he didn't declare for the draft. After a season of football, he was running 4.45 to 4.50 in his workouts. Something was wrong. His sprint coach at UCLA had to get the football out of his stride. It was short and best for cutting, jumping, and producing explosive power, but his longspeed was being adversely affected. So they worked on getting his track form back together and whooosh... 4.39. He shaved from .06 to .11 tenths off his time, and praised his coach for making it possible. This is a guy who's been running sprints for 7 years.

Webb's problems were different. He hadn't run track for a few years, and he needed to work on everything. He was running 4.55s after the season. He went to work with someone I know rather well. They worked hard on his start, his form, and his breathing. Whoooosh... 4.42 at the Combine. That's how you cut .13 seconds off your 40, but I bet my friend could cut a lot more than that from your 40.

 

[Hunterbeer]

-Scores a 7 on the Wonderlic and then a 15

-His agent is a night club owner that was a buddy

-Worked primarily out of the shotgun in college

-Ran 4.57 on a fast track

-Had a great game against a poor USC defense -- This is justification for a TOP 5 pick??

What has he done to improve his draft status since the USC game?

Seems like he has bust written all over him!!

Yeah, it is too bad he didn't do anything in those other 30+ starts he had. People who see VY come away amazed. Much like Jerry Rice's time, I don't put a lot of stock in it. I never saw VY caught from behind -- and I saw him run away from AJ Hawk on one occassion like Hawk was in mud. Young is huge and difficult to bring down even if you can catch him. (Hawk did have one great sack on VY when Young was trying to juke and Hawk did a textbook right in the belly smack.)

 

[Evilgrin 72]

He may have blown some scouts...but not all of them.

Nice, really nice. You're pure class!

THIRTY-SEVEN ?!?!?!?

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I should just stop reading Vince Young topics, because they all end up being the same things

here are the only FACTS we know about Vince Young in the NFL

1) THERE ARE NO SURE THINGS PERIOD END OF STORY. All of the vince young lovers out there stop saying he "will dominate in the NFL" because you just cannot know that. A sure thing does not exist, never has, and Vince isn't it.

2) EVERY QUATERBACK EVER HAS HAD THINGS THAT POINTED TO BEING A POSSIBLE FLOP. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT ANYONE KNOWS VINCE WILL FLOP. This is for the VY haters, newsflash there is no perfect QB prospect, there are going to be faults with everyone, anyone can pick parts of a players game and point to that as why the person will flop in the NFL. This is why the scouts are not posting on message boards right now, because they are trying hard to guess at what a player will do. If you think you can do their job better than they can you are mistaken.

What we know about Vince is that he looked incredible in college, there is obviously skill there, and no matter if he gets drafted 1st or 31st he'll get a chance to develop his talent and eventually show us what he can do.

Now on to the workout. The 40 time doesn't really bother me, anyone who is worried that VY doesn't have the football speed to be effective is fooling themselves. Just watch the dude run, watch some game film. The fact that he felt he could blow of the 40, and never trained for it, and then was pressured into changing his mind DOES bother me.

I agree with a few of the haters that this kids post Rose Bowl period has been a disaster of one screw up after another. Someone needs to tell VY he's being handled by idiots. Does this affect his draftability? Not really, although it does concern me over how hard it could be to negotiate a contract with the buffoons that are running his show. That being said I would probably not downgrade him a single slot for it. IF I had him and Leinart or Cutler even on my board, then it could be part of the tie breaker, but that's about it.

If I could wave a magic wand over the shark pool and change one thing it would be to have everyone take a huge step towards the center of the whole VY debate. It is one thing to have an opinion, but people act like they have some crystal ball that tells them that Vince will either be the next Ryan Leaf, or the greatest QB ever.

For my money I'll wager something in between.

...and immediately after, you have...this work of art...

QUOTE(The Scientist @ Mar 23 2006, 12:58 AM)

Vince Young = Aaron Brooks if he had been on a great college team

how dare you insult Aaron Brooks like that..

lol

VY is a cross between Akili Smith and Kordell Stewart..

and about as overhyped as Ryan Leaf or, dare I say, HEATH SHULER....

Mort was saying on ESPN's Mike & Mike show this morning, that VY is going somewhere between 6-10 in the NFL draft, and that he neither helped nor hurt himself with the workouts..that he is what he is, a work in progress, essentially..

Kiper was beside himself , touting VY as a top 1-3 pick, and the only reason that he is in the 6-10 range is that the teams at the top (N.O.)signed guys like Brees, Ramsey (NYJ), etc..

Maybe that's the reason why Kiper works for ESPN, and NOT for an NFL team??

lol

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Man, some of y'all sound like my GF at times...harping on things just to harp on them. Please get off the "his handlers are screwing up", at least in regards to this workout. They knew that everyone would want to see him pass, and they hired a QB's coach to work with him and help him get ready for what was obviously a successful passing display. Why not give them props for that??? Or at least if you are gonna call them stupid, be fair and acknowledge the things they got right.

Most in the anti-VY group claim they don't want their QB spending all day running anyway, not y'all wanna harp on his 40 time after he has a good passing display? A 40 that he decided to run out of the blue? Here is what someone else thought of his 40:

Although Young wasn't scheduled to run Wednesday, he said he wanted to after watching some of his teammates do it.

"They wanted to see me run, so I ran," he said.

The change of heart impressed Kubiak.

"He's very competitive and got in an environment where everybody wanted to see him operate," Kubiak said. "He did a great job."

Here's what one significant scout thought about it:

C.O. Brocato, the Titans national director of college scouting, encouraged Young to run the 40. He was impressed with Young's time of 4.57 seconds. That's the sixth best time clocked by a quarterback in workouts the past two months — Texas A&M's Reggie McNeal has the fastest at 4.37 — but plenty speedy enough given the impromptu showing.

"He ran a 4.5, most of (the quarterbacks) run a 5 flat," Brocato said.

link

 

[ImTheScientist]

Im done with all VY posts, pointless to argue against Young with all the man love going on around here. I will bump all these posts later on this season....have fun with the VY man love :X

 

[stbugs]

interesting tidbits on a column about Kiper, paraphrased from slate.com:

"In the early '80s, Kiper made a name for himself by outhustling every draftnik in the country. He watched hundreds of hours of game tape, hung around college all-star games, and became a message board for agents, players, and general managers. He collected the info in his annual Draft Report, in which he ranked hundreds of prospects by position—all this when as late as the 1960s, some NFL teams showed up on Draft Day with nothing more than a college football magazine. Kiper joined ESPN just as the draft was becoming a made-for-TV event, and for a whole new generation of fans, Mel's opinion seemed to carry a lot of weight.

But it didn't. NFL teams spend far more time studying the draft than Kiper does, pouring millions into scouting every Kutztown offensive lineman and Bethune-Cookman nose tackle. Teams assemble their own rankings by inviting prospects in for workouts and by patrolling the league's annual draft combine—events Mel isn't privy to. (Kiper's Web site brags that he works in an office hard-wired to receive 20-25 college games a week, but everyone else with a satellite dish can do this, too). Although his Draft Report is a bible for fans, general managers basically ignore it

Judging by his mock drafts, Mel hasn't realized that. His Web site offers this ambiguous claim: "Mel's in-depth knowledge … has enabled him to accurately predict as much as 80 percent of first-round draft selections." Translation: At some point in the last two decades, 80 percent of the players Kiper thought would be drafted in the first round were drafted in the first round—never mind by what team or with which pick. Last year, Kiper didn't quite match that mark, but he still correctly predicted 77 percent of "first-round draft selections."

But when you look at his mock draft on a pick-by-pick basis—i.e., how he matched specific players with specific teams or, at least, specific picks—Kiper's batting average slipped to a dismal 29 percent. A few picks weren't even close. Three players he thought would be first-rounders fell more than 30 picks, and one, Georgia Tech wide receiver Dez White, fell 47 picks. Mel thought these players deserved to be first-round picks. The problem is, no NFL team agreed. It's Kiper's recurring fault: He substitutes his own rankings, which carry little weight, for in-depth reporting. And because he attempts only to understand the draft on his own terms, he doesn't understand it at all."

haha..read the whole thing here:

http://www.slate.com/id/104163/

Haha?Man, you are pretty funny with that article. There isn't anyone with Mel's back here, but come on. On the one hand you mocking Mel because he doesn't work for an NFL and on the other you take a statement from another guy from ESPN, who also doesn't work for an NFL team.

Also, that slate article is just plain stupid. It shows two picks Dez White and Shyrone Stith. Wow, that is a lot of concrete evidence, how about a list of NFL busts that the "expert" NFL teams made, like Ryan Leaf, etc. The author acts like the fact that Mel doesn't predict every pick right so he must be a moron unlike Rick Gosselin because Gosselin picked 87% of the 1st rounder and Mel picked 77%.

Again, I don't care about Mel Kiper, but he sure knows a lot more than I do about the draft. As people mentioned above, there is no one in the NFL or not, that knows 100% that VY will be great or a bust, period.

Also, this was a silly article written by a guy who when I did a quick Internet search wrote the following articles:

Sundance for Republicans

Welcome to the nation's first conservative film festival

Amateur Knight

Richard Donner gets medieval in Timeline

Salmon

Swimming downstream.

The Condensed Bob Woodward

Slate reads Plan of Attack so you don't have to

Wow, this slate article sure seems to be written by a Football expert, huh? You criticize Mel Kiper who's job is the NFL draft using an article from a guy who probably just got a call from his buddy (Rick Gosselin) and threw together a quick read.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

I am loosing allot respect for Mort lately. I am not on one side of the fence or the other with cutler/young debate.

Mort seems to be grasping here and it looks tacky.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

interesting tidbits on a column about Kiper, paraphrased from slate.com:

"In the early '80s, Kiper made a name for himself by outhustling every draftnik in the country. He watched hundreds of hours of game tape, hung around college all-star games, and became a message board for agents, players, and general managers. He collected the info in his annual Draft Report, in which he ranked hundreds of prospects by position—all this when as late as the 1960s, some NFL teams showed up on Draft Day with nothing more than a college football magazine. Kiper joined ESPN just as the draft was becoming a made-for-TV event, and for a whole new generation of fans, Mel's opinion seemed to carry a lot of weight.

But it didn't. NFL teams spend far more time studying the draft than Kiper does, pouring millions into scouting every Kutztown offensive lineman and Bethune-Cookman nose tackle. Teams assemble their own rankings by inviting prospects in for workouts and by patrolling the league's annual draft combine—events Mel isn't privy to. (Kiper's Web site brags that he works in an office hard-wired to receive 20-25 college games a week, but everyone else with a satellite dish can do this, too). Although his Draft Report is a bible for fans, general managers basically ignore it

Judging by his mock drafts, Mel hasn't realized that. His Web site offers this ambiguous claim: "Mel's in-depth knowledge … has enabled him to accurately predict as much as 80 percent of first-round draft selections." Translation: At some point in the last two decades, 80 percent of the players Kiper thought would be drafted in the first round were drafted in the first round—never mind by what team or with which pick. Last year, Kiper didn't quite match that mark, but he still correctly predicted 77 percent of "first-round draft selections."

But when you look at his mock draft on a pick-by-pick basis—i.e., how he matched specific players with specific teams or, at least, specific picks—Kiper's batting average slipped to a dismal 29 percent. A few picks weren't even close. Three players he thought would be first-rounders fell more than 30 picks, and one, Georgia Tech wide receiver Dez White, fell 47 picks. Mel thought these players deserved to be first-round picks. The problem is, no NFL team agreed. It's Kiper's recurring fault: He substitutes his own rankings, which carry little weight, for in-depth reporting. And because he attempts only to understand the draft on his own terms, he doesn't understand it at all."

haha..read the whole thing here:

http://www.slate.com/id/104163/

Haha?Man, you are pretty funny with that article. There isn't anyone with Mel's back here, but come on. On the one hand you mocking Mel because he doesn't work for an NFL and on the other you take a statement from another guy from ESPN, who also doesn't work for an NFL team.

Also, that slate article is just plain stupid. It shows two picks Dez White and Shyrone Stith. Wow, that is a lot of concrete evidence, how about a list of NFL busts that the "expert" NFL teams made, like Ryan Leaf, etc. The author acts like the fact that Mel doesn't predict every pick right so he must be a moron unlike Rick Gosselin because Gosselin picked 87% of the 1st rounder and Mel picked 77%.

Again, I don't care about Mel Kiper, but he sure knows a lot more than I do about the draft. As people mentioned above, there is no one in the NFL or not, that knows 100% that VY will be great or a bust, period.

Also, this was a silly article written by a guy who when I did a quick Internet search wrote the following articles:

Sundance for Republicans

Welcome to the nation's first conservative film festival

Amateur Knight

Richard Donner gets medieval in Timeline

Salmon

Swimming downstream.

The Condensed Bob Woodward

Slate reads Plan of Attack so you don't have to

Wow, this slate article sure seems to be written by a Football expert, huh? You criticize Mel Kiper who's job is the NFL draft using an article from a guy who probably just got a call from his buddy (Rick Gosselin) and threw together a quick read.

ouch.

 

[stbugs]

I am loosing allot respect for Mort lately. I am not on one side of the fence or the other with cutler/young debate.

Mort seems to be grasping here and it looks tacky.

I agree with you and although it may seem like it, I don't know who will be better and I am not backing Mel Kiper either.More and more we get the talking heads that are just trying to create a ruckus just so that they are quoted more or ESPN has enough controversy to fill an extra 30 minute slot.

I am looking forward to just getting to the draft and seeing the results instead of getting bombarded by one article quoting one unknown source that is the opposite of another article quoting another unknown source.

Just because a scout said Vince Young is great or not doesn't make it true. I assume that there were a bunch of scouts that thought Leaf was better than Manning and they were wrong and there were just as many guys that were right about McNabb over Couch.

 

[Kiddnets]

More hype - now to Tenn at #3.

TITANS TO TAKE VINCE?

A league insider with a proven knack for reading the tea leaves when it comes to discerning what teams will do in round one of the draft firmly believes that the Tennessee Titans are poised to select quarterback Vince Young with the No. 3 selection.

Echoing comments we've heard from others regarding Young's presence on the field and football intangibles, the source says that Young is a freak and that, when ignoring the measurables and looking merely at the tape, Young is clearly the best of the three quarterbacks projected to go early in this year's draft.

Although the Texans are heaping plenty of praise on the local product, the team that holds the No. 1 pick in the draft likely is erring on the side of not pissing off its fan base, many of whom already will be dismayed when the Texans choose USC tailback Reggie Bush. And although the Saints hope to trade down a bit and target a defensive player, only a swap with the Raiders at No. 7 would leave the Saints in position to get the guy they want. But then the question would be whether the Raiders would be willing to muster enough to make up for the 1,100-point gap on the trade chart between the value of the No. 2 pick (2,600 points) and No. 7 (1,500 points).

Still, it's possible that someone else might try to jump in front of the Titans, if the buzz surrounding Young continues to grow as draft day approaches.

The next major step in the process comes on April 2, when Bush and USC quarterback Matt Leinart work out at the Trojans' pro day. If Leinart, who isn't a stud in a T-shirt-and-shorts workout, doesn't wow scouts, it's possible that the race for the No. 1 could come down to Bush and Young.

Just like everyone thought it would be the morning after the Rose Bowl.

 

[cstu]

It's pretty clear that all I said was that it is obvious cstu actually knows little about VY.

This has been a strange off season. Tons of people have lost credibility this off-season. I've watched Young's entire 30-2 run at Texas and can't believe the ignorance. People would rather hang on to an argument about silly things that have nothing to do with football than to just watch the games. It’s just incredibly obvious many of the people who comment on VY have never really watched much more than the Rose bowl. They just hang on to scuttlebutt as they know that once VY starts to dominate in the NFL like he has done on every level he has ever played that these threads will all be long gong.

I think you are getting the wrong idea what I think about Young because some of you are way too emotionally attached to Vince. I've never said that I think he's going to be a bust, just that he's not going to be ready to start right away and will need 2-3 years to develop. There are a lot of things he does well, but to think he is ready to start next year is ridiculous.It seems that if someone finds any faults in Vince they automatically don't know what they are talking about. I'll tell you what I don't like about Vince:

1) He played in a shotgun offense and will need time to adjust to a pro-style offense.

2) He didn't have to make great reads as a QB in college and will have to work on that in the NFL. It doesn't mean he won't be able to be successful because his running ability will cause problems for defenses.

3) He scored low on the Wonderlic - not the end all be all, but a big question mark since it shows he didn't prepare.

4) He hired a nightclub owner as his agent - very unprofessional and a sign of immaturity like Ricky Williams.

5) He didn't prepare for the 40 yard dash, a test every player is expected to do. Another sign of immaturity.

What I like:

1) Creates mismatches with his speed.

2) Tall and can see the field well.

3) Makes good decisions.

4) Leadership - doesn't fold under pressure.

5) Makes accurate throws and can find the open guy.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

2) He didn't have to make great reads as a QB in college and will have to work on that in the NFL. It doesn't mean he won't be able to be successful because his running ability will cause problems for defenses.

I hear this one tossed out there so often, and with no reasoning, I'd like to hear someone back it up.Are you saying he didn't have to make great reads because he was a college qb, or...what? If you're saying he didn't have to make reads and everyone else did, but he had the #3 qb rating this year, then I just don't know where that come comes from.

Seems to me he made the reads in the Rose Bowl well enough to keep from throwing into the teeth of a cover 2...and against Ohio State he read the D well enough to look off the primary receiver on a play designed to go to his favorite reciever, TE David Thomas, instead hitting Limas Sweed in the corner of the end zone for the winning score...or against OU, or...the list goes on.

Can you elaborate?

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I haven't read through all the posts but I noticed two things that I'm guessing may not posted already. One intangible that I noticed was Vince Young's body language...his body language and movement exhudes confidence, very impressive. I noticed that right away in watching the NFL Network's video of Young's workout.

The negative was his thin ankles...his lower body needs more mass in my view. I wouldn't bet on him if he were a horse, as a Football player he will likely be okay.

Yeah...as impressive as he is physically, the bigger thing Vince brings to the table is his leadership ability. At Texas, he had players, even coaches ready to run through walls for him. Over and over players would drop anecdotes of Vince's calming influence in the huddle or his motivation on the sidelines.On one play against OU, one of the guys came into the huddle saying "I think they know the play". Vince just looked at him and said "So?!?!" Texas' next play was a rollout by Vince and a perfect, in-stride 60 yard bomb to a wide open Billy Pittman that blew the game wide open.

Remember how Texas and Mack Brown used to get ripped for being "soft" and underachieving with massive talent on campus. That was because they weren't focused on the same common goal. Not really. There were too many egos struggling against each other to make it work out.

Young united the team, focused it, relaxed everyone, and the rest is history. He had a huge influence on Brown, which carries over to this day. Vince Young may have a funny throwing motion, but he elevates everyone around him. He just wins.

 

[cstu]

2) He didn't have to make great reads as a QB in college and will have to work on that in the NFL. It doesn't mean he won't be able to be successful because his running ability will cause problems for defenses.

I hear this one tossed out there so often, and with no reasoning, I'd like to hear someone back it up.Are you saying he didn't have to make great reads because he was a college qb, or...what? If you're saying he didn't have to make reads and everyone else did, but he had the #3 qb rating this year, then I just don't know where that come comes from.

Seems to me he made the reads in the Rose Bowl well enough to keep from throwing into the teeth of a cover 2...and against Ohio State he read the D well enough to look off the primary receiver on a play designed to go to his favorite reciever, TE David Thomas, instead hitting Limas Sweed in the corner of the end zone for the winning score...or against OU, or...the list goes on.

Can you elaborate?

Not to say that he never does it, but I've watched the Rose Bowl and the game against Ohio State a couple times and I didn't see him check off his primary receiver and throw to another one very often in those games - at least not as much as he'll be expected to in the NFL. When he got pressured he tucked the ball and ran for a big gain. In the NFL he will get a lot more pressure in pocket and will have to stand in there and make throws. Like I said, it's something he will get better at if he's given a chance to learn instead of getting thrown to the wolves. I would like to see him not play for 2 years and get as much practice as he can before he's made the starter.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

2) He didn't have to make great reads as a QB in college and will have to work on that in the NFL. It doesn't mean he won't be able to be successful because his running ability will cause problems for defenses.

I hear this one tossed out there so often, and with no reasoning, I'd like to hear someone back it up.Are you saying he didn't have to make great reads because he was a college qb, or...what? If you're saying he didn't have to make reads and everyone else did, but he had the #3 qb rating this year, then I just don't know where that come comes from.

Seems to me he made the reads in the Rose Bowl well enough to keep from throwing into the teeth of a cover 2...and against Ohio State he read the D well enough to look off the primary receiver on a play designed to go to his favorite reciever, TE David Thomas, instead hitting Limas Sweed in the corner of the end zone for the winning score...or against OU, or...the list goes on.

Can you elaborate?

Not to say that he never does it, but I've watched the Rose Bowl and the game against Ohio State a couple times and I didn't see him check off his primary receiver and throw to another one very often in those games - at least not as much as he'll be expected to in the NFL. When he got pressured he tucked the ball and ran for a big gain. In the NFL he will get a lot more pressure in pocket and will have to stand in there and make throws. Like I said, it's something he will get better at if he's given a chance to learn instead of getting thrown to the wolves. I would like to see him not play for 2 years and get as much practice as he can before he's made the starter.

He did it other times against Ohio St., but the most obvious example, like I said before, was the winning TD, which was called to go across the middle to the TE Thomas. He saw the wideout Sweed singled up on the left before the snap, then saw him get a step and threw it where only Sweed could catch it. You say against them he ran for big gains whenever pressured, but that was only early on, and only because it was there. tOSU spied Hawk on Vince & committed all the LBs to run support, making running very difficult for VY early in the 2nd quarter and for the rest of the game. From then on, Texas went (very successfully) to the air, esp hitting screens to the rb Charles, who was killing tOSU on those plays.

This was the point when other teams knew they could not simply scheme to take away the run against VY, depending on him to make mistakes in the passing game. If a team tried to play us straight up, we'd nickle & dime 'em until we broke it open with a mismatch. If they committed everything to the run, we'd kill 'em with the pass...and so on.

Against SC, he ran all night because, quite simply, SC never gave him a reason not to. They were in cover 2 almost all night hoping to get a big pass rush on him and rush him into throwing a deep one that would get picked. Didn't work. The d-line got very little push and Vince didn't bite. He kept hitting the wide open TE and the WRs on short and IM stuff. When that wasn't there, he ran outside. Why not? Nobody was there to stop him. To do any differently would have been stupid. What should he have done, stand back there 'til he got sacked...or force a ball to a covered receiver? No. He took the yards that were available then got OB. Smart.

I think a lot of people see Vince running and assume he was always running on pass plays where the protection had broken down. That was probably true his his redshirt freshman year and early in his sophomore year. But about halfway through that year, something clicked with Vince and he became very comfortable in the offense. If you really watch tape of his games this year, on most of his runs, they're designed runs out of the zone read package or Vince has gone through his progressions. You can see him scanning the field, seeing two, three, even four receivers covered...then he'll go....and why not? He's as fast as most DBs and bigger than many LBs and has incredible field vision. As far as leaving the pocket when the pressure comes crashing down...well, he can do that too. Is that bad?