Warren Moon Thought (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

We've heard 1,000 times this weekend about Moon's refusal to switch positions. The implication seems to be that it's admirable he refused and somewhat evil that GMs and coaches would ask him to play another position.

But is that refusal to switch necessarily a good thing as a general thing? Obviously, it worked out great for Moon. But in general?

Listening to Rayfield Wright, he had a very different attitude when coach Landry moved him from TE to tackle. Landry thought his skill set was better suited for tackle. I'd say Staubach and Cowboys fans would agree.

For the QB position, was it wrong to ask guys like Matt Jones, Antwaan Randle El or Hines Ward to make the switch?

I realize people think it's a race thing. But was it a race thing for Rayfield Wright? Or Jones, Randle El or Ward?

J

 

[Spartans Rule]

We've heard 1,000 times this weekend about Moon's refusal to switch positions. The implication seems to be that it's admirable he refused and somewhat evil that GMs and coaches would ask him to play another position.But is that refusal to switch necessarily a good thing as a general thing? Obviously, it worked out great for Moon. But in general?Listening to Rayfield Wright, he had a very different attitude when coach Landry moved him from TE to tackle. Landry thought his skill set was better suited for tackle. I'd say Staubach and Cowboys fans would agree.For the QB position, was it wrong to ask guys like Matt Jones, Plaxico Burress or Hines Ward to make the switch?I realize people think it's a race thing. But was it a race thing for Rayfield Wright? Or Jones, Burress or Ward?J

If you look at Warren Moon's skill set, the idea of him playing another position is absurd. He was a mobile QB, but never really a running QB. His career high in rushing in the NFL was 268 yards. Maybe he ran more in the CFL, I don't know. But to me it seems like suggesting he should play WR or RB or DB isn't a conclusion you could come to from any sort of reasonable analysis of his skills.

 

[Pantherz]

We've heard 1,000 times this weekend about Moon's refusal to switch positions. The implication seems to be that it's admirable he refused and somewhat evil that GMs and coaches would ask him to play another position.But is that refusal to switch necessarily a good thing as a general thing? Obviously, it worked out great for Moon. But in general?Listening to Rayfield Wright, he had a very different attitude when coach Landry moved him from TE to tackle. Landry thought his skill set was better suited for tackle. I'd say Staubach and Cowboys fans would agree.For the QB position, was it wrong to ask guys like Matt Jones, Plaxico Burress or Hines Ward to make the switch?I realize people think it's a race thing. But was it a race thing for Rayfield Wright? Or Jones, Burress or Ward?J

Did you mean Randel-El instead of Burress?

 

[Lightning Fast Whip]

Individual decision that those making have to live with consequences I suppose. Moon believed in himself/his skills and was right so it paid off. The recent Nebraska Heisman type QB who refused to switch misjudged himself and is so obscure now I can't recall his name for sure. Seems to have cost him the shot to be in NFL. These guys have been told how great they are for years and years before Pro Scouts tell them anything different... tough to keep perspective when it's the first time someone isn't kissing up constantly. I'd guess there are always going to be exceptions like Moon that Scouts misjudge but I think Scouts have it right more often than not. College studs need to at least take some time to get some perspective before refusing to listen...worth trying to understand why scouts want them to switch before making such a big decision. jmo

 

[Lightning Fast Whip]

Add Drew Bennett to guys who scouts got it right with. Not always a racist decision. Nebraska QB would have been much better off with a Drew Bennett/Matt Jones career path than what his inflated self opinion has gotten him.

 

[Lightning Fast Whip]

We've heard 1,000 times this weekend about Moon's refusal to switch positions. The implication seems to be that it's admirable he refused and somewhat evil that GMs and coaches would ask him to play another position.But is that refusal to switch necessarily a good thing as a general thing? Obviously, it worked out great for Moon. But in general?Listening to Rayfield Wright, he had a very different attitude when coach Landry moved him from TE to tackle. Landry thought his skill set was better suited for tackle. I'd say Staubach and Cowboys fans would agree.For the QB position, was it wrong to ask guys like Matt Jones, Antwaan Randle El or Hines Ward to make the switch?I realize people think it's a race thing. But was it a race thing for Rayfield Wright? Or Jones, Randle El or Ward?J

If you look at Warren Moon's skill set, the idea of him playing another position is absurd. He was a mobile QB, but never really a running QB. His career high in rushing in the NFL was 268 yards. Maybe he ran more in the CFL, I don't know. But to me it seems like suggesting he should play WR or RB or DB isn't a conclusion you could come to from any sort of reasonable analysis of his skills.

Most all running QBs run the most early in their careers ...Moons early career (6 years?) was in CFL

 

[Pantherz]

I was just wondering about any other guys who "bucked the system" and won, other than Warren Moon. I wouldn't say Kordell Stewart would fit that category. Gotta wonder what his career would have been had he stayed "Slash".

 

[Bri]

I think it's an individual thing, not all encompassing at all.

I can't/couldn't watch Eric Crouch and not think he was a terrific athlete. Safety and trying to learn the complicated Green Bay offense were not the right choices for him. I think he could have played in the NFL. Though I don't know in what capacity he was clearly a better athlete than many players on the field IMO.

Speaking of MoonIMO Major Harris was the last one that was "definitely" deserving of a genuine shot at QB in the NFL and didn't get it.

Matt Jones and Randel El look comfy at WR so I think that's fine.

Landry was famous for knowing what position players should play since his Giant days so Rayfield had a rare opportunity to listen and trust the advice he was getting. Few coaches have such a track record and are probably looked at "crosseyed" at first.

 

[Lightning Fast Whip]

Most folks from State of Washington did think Moon was a QB after watching him in college....yet disclaimer is we were biased of course...he did bring College Football back to national prominance in Northwest.

 

[Bri]

I was just wondering about any other guys who "bucked the system" and won, other than Warren Moon. I wouldn't say Kordell Stewart would fit that category. Gotta wonder what his career would have been had he stayed slash

He lost his confidence. He "made it" as a QB and had one of the better seasons(total combined yards) in recent memory. NFL players are useless without confidence

 

[coolnerd]

In the 1970s it was primarily a race thing. As I remember while Washington ran some option it was still a passing offense at that school. He had also proven to be a winner taking that school to the Rosebowl. With his combination of QB skills and sucess at the college level Moon should have not only remained at QB, but been a high first round draft choice also. His success in Canada and the NFL bear this out.

As we can read on these boards, in general, a lot of rules should be followed, but knowing when to ignore generalities is the key. Rayfield Wright had the chance to prove he was an NFL TE and was a better blocker. Jones performs in era where players are primarily judged on thier skills. Honestly, while a good athlete, I am not convinced that Moon had NFL athleticism at any other position. His only chance was really at QB and he need to violate the general notion to prove this to be true.

 

[Spartans Rule]

We've heard 1,000 times this weekend about Moon's refusal to switch positions. The implication seems to be that it's admirable he refused and somewhat evil that GMs and coaches would ask him to play another position.But is that refusal to switch necessarily a good thing as a general thing? Obviously, it worked out great for Moon. But in general?Listening to Rayfield Wright, he had a very different attitude when coach Landry moved him from TE to tackle. Landry thought his skill set was better suited for tackle. I'd say Staubach and Cowboys fans would agree.For the QB position, was it wrong to ask guys like Matt Jones, Antwaan Randle El or Hines Ward to make the switch?I realize people think it's a race thing. But was it a race thing for Rayfield Wright? Or Jones, Randle El or Ward?J

If you look at Warren Moon's skill set, the idea of him playing another position is absurd. He was a mobile QB, but never really a running QB. His career high in rushing in the NFL was 268 yards. Maybe he ran more in the CFL, I don't know. But to me it seems like suggesting he should play WR or RB or DB isn't a conclusion you could come to from any sort of reasonable analysis of his skills.

Most all running QBs run the most early in their careers ...Moons early career (6 years?) was in CFL

That's true and I'm trying to dig up his CFL rushing stats to no avail. If anyone else can find them, please post them.That said, most of these other QBs we've discussed were option quarterbacks who made their mark with their athleticism and running ability. Moon was always a passer first, and I really don't think he was an NFL-caliber athlete in terms of speed, agility, jumping, etc. at all.I wasn't alive in 1978 and I don't really know enough about Moon's situation to say it was racism. But I highly doubt that any white players with similar skill sets were asked to give up on playing QB.

 

[{Syrus}]

Listening to Rayfield Wright, he had a very different attitude when coach Landry moved him from TE to tackle. Landry thought his skill set was better suited for tackle. I'd say Staubach and Cowboys fans would agree.

Making the switch from TE to OT is a far cry from QB to WR or DB.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

We've heard 1,000 times this weekend about Moon's refusal to switch positions. The implication seems to be that it's admirable he refused and somewhat evil that GMs and coaches would ask him to play another position.

But is that refusal to switch necessarily a good thing as a general thing? Obviously, it worked out great for Moon. But in general?

Listening to Rayfield Wright, he had a very different attitude when coach Landry moved him from TE to tackle. Landry thought his skill set was better suited for tackle. I'd say Staubach and Cowboys fans would agree.

For the QB position, was it wrong to ask guys like Matt Jones, Antwaan Randle El or Hines Ward to make the switch?

I realize people think it's a race thing. But was it a race thing for Rayfield Wright? Or Jones, Randle El or Ward?

J

If you look at Warren Moon's skill set, the idea of him playing another position is absurd. He was a mobile QB, but never really a running QB. His career high in rushing in the NFL was 268 yards. Maybe he ran more in the CFL, I don't know. But to me it seems like suggesting he should play WR or RB or DB isn't a conclusion you could come to from any sort of reasonable analysis of his skills.

Most all running QBs run the most early in their careers ...Moons early career (6 years?) was in CFL

That's true and I'm trying to dig up his CFL rushing stats to no avail. If anyone else can find them, please post them.That said, most of these other QBs we've discussed were option quarterbacks who made their mark with their athleticism and running ability. Moon was always a passer first, and I really don't think he was an NFL-caliber athlete in terms of speed, agility, jumping, etc. at all.

I wasn't alive in 1978 and I don't really know enough about Moon's situation to say it was racism. But I highly doubt that any white players with similar skill sets were asked to give up on playing QB.

CFL Statistics: 1978-1983 Edmonton Eskimos – Passing: 2382-1369-21,228, 144 TDs, 77 INTs, 93.8 Rtg.; Rushing: 330-1700, 16 TDsSource: Pro Football Hall of Fame

 

[Joe Bryant]

We've heard 1,000 times this weekend about Moon's refusal to switch positions. The implication seems to be that it's admirable he refused and somewhat evil that GMs and coaches would ask him to play another position.But is that refusal to switch necessarily a good thing as a general thing? Obviously, it worked out great for Moon. But in general?Listening to Rayfield Wright, he had a very different attitude when coach Landry moved him from TE to tackle. Landry thought his skill set was better suited for tackle. I'd say Staubach and Cowboys fans would agree.For the QB position, was it wrong to ask guys like Matt Jones, Plaxico Burress or Hines Ward to make the switch?I realize people think it's a race thing. But was it a race thing for Rayfield Wright? Or Jones, Burress or Ward?J

Did you mean Randel-El instead of Burress?

I'm sorry. Yes. I'll fix.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

Listening to Rayfield Wright, he had a very different attitude when coach Landry moved him from TE to tackle. Landry thought his skill set was better suited for tackle. I'd say Staubach and Cowboys fans would agree.

Making the switch from TE to OT is a far cry from QB to WR or DB.

How about Matt Jones then? Or Drew Bennett? Or Randle El or Ward?Did you see Wright's speech?He came off like the total team guy. Landry said he needed him to switch for the good of the team and Wright was "if coach Landry said it, that was good enough for me."From what I've heard from Moon today, I wonder how he'd have reacted.J

 

[Spartans Rule]

We've heard 1,000 times this weekend about Moon's refusal to switch positions. The implication seems to be that it's admirable he refused and somewhat evil that GMs and coaches would ask him to play another position.

But is that refusal to switch necessarily a good thing as a general thing? Obviously, it worked out great for Moon. But in general?

Listening to Rayfield Wright, he had a very different attitude when coach Landry moved him from TE to tackle. Landry thought his skill set was better suited for tackle. I'd say Staubach and Cowboys fans would agree.

For the QB position, was it wrong to ask guys like Matt Jones, Antwaan Randle El or Hines Ward to make the switch?

I realize people think it's a race thing. But was it a race thing for Rayfield Wright? Or Jones, Randle El or Ward?

J

If you look at Warren Moon's skill set, the idea of him playing another position is absurd. He was a mobile QB, but never really a running QB. His career high in rushing in the NFL was 268 yards. Maybe he ran more in the CFL, I don't know. But to me it seems like suggesting he should play WR or RB or DB isn't a conclusion you could come to from any sort of reasonable analysis of his skills.

Most all running QBs run the most early in their careers ...Moons early career (6 years?) was in CFL

That's true and I'm trying to dig up his CFL rushing stats to no avail. If anyone else can find them, please post them.That said, most of these other QBs we've discussed were option quarterbacks who made their mark with their athleticism and running ability. Moon was always a passer first, and I really don't think he was an NFL-caliber athlete in terms of speed, agility, jumping, etc. at all.

I wasn't alive in 1978 and I don't really know enough about Moon's situation to say it was racism. But I highly doubt that any white players with similar skill sets were asked to give up on playing QB.

CFL Statistics: 1978-1983 Edmonton Eskimos – Passing: 2382-1369-21,228, 144 TDs, 77 INTs, 93.8 Rtg.; Rushing: 330-1700, 16 TDsSource: Pro Football Hall of Fame

Thank you.So per season, that works out to 228-397, 3538 yards, 24 TDs, 13 INTs; 55 carries, 283 yards, 3 TDs.

A little more running than he did in the NFL, which makes sense since he was younger, but by no means a running QB.

 

[Lightning Fast Whip]

We've heard 1,000 times this weekend about Moon's refusal to switch positions. The implication seems to be that it's admirable he refused and somewhat evil that GMs and coaches would ask him to play another position.

But is that refusal to switch necessarily a good thing as a general thing? Obviously, it worked out great for Moon. But in general?

Listening to Rayfield Wright, he had a very different attitude when coach Landry moved him from TE to tackle. Landry thought his skill set was better suited for tackle. I'd say Staubach and Cowboys fans would agree.

For the QB position, was it wrong to ask guys like Matt Jones, Antwaan Randle El or Hines Ward to make the switch?

I realize people think it's a race thing. But was it a race thing for Rayfield Wright? Or Jones, Randle El or Ward?

J

If you look at Warren Moon's skill set, the idea of him playing another position is absurd. He was a mobile QB, but never really a running QB. His career high in rushing in the NFL was 268 yards. Maybe he ran more in the CFL, I don't know. But to me it seems like suggesting he should play WR or RB or DB isn't a conclusion you could come to from any sort of reasonable analysis of his skills.

Most all running QBs run the most early in their careers ...Moons early career (6 years?) was in CFL

That's true and I'm trying to dig up his CFL rushing stats to no avail. If anyone else can find them, please post them.That said, most of these other QBs we've discussed were option quarterbacks who made their mark with their athleticism and running ability. Moon was always a passer first, and I really don't think he was an NFL-caliber athlete in terms of speed, agility, jumping, etc. at all.

I wasn't alive in 1978 and I don't really know enough about Moon's situation to say it was racism. But I highly doubt that any white players with similar skill sets were asked to give up on playing QB.

CFL Statistics: 1978-1983 Edmonton Eskimos – Passing: 2382-1369-21,228, 144 TDs, 77 INTs, 93.8 Rtg.; Rushing: 330-1700, 16 TDsSource: Pro Football Hall of Fame

Thank you.So per season, that works out to 228-397, 3538 yards, 24 TDs, 13 INTs; 55 carries, 283 yards, 3 TDs.

A little more running than he did in the NFL, which makes sense since he was younger, but by no means a running QB.

An ATHLETIC QB not a runner. Sort of Brooks,Carr type ATHLETIC rushing numbers. Pass first be an athlete second.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

We've heard 1,000 times this weekend about Moon's refusal to switch positions. The implication seems to be that it's admirable he refused and somewhat evil that GMs and coaches would ask him to play another position.

But is that refusal to switch necessarily a good thing as a general thing? Obviously, it worked out great for Moon. But in general?

Listening to Rayfield Wright, he had a very different attitude when coach Landry moved him from TE to tackle. Landry thought his skill set was better suited for tackle. I'd say Staubach and Cowboys fans would agree.

For the QB position, was it wrong to ask guys like Matt Jones, Antwaan Randle El or Hines Ward to make the switch?

I realize people think it's a race thing. But was it a race thing for Rayfield Wright? Or Jones, Randle El or Ward?

J

If you look at Warren Moon's skill set, the idea of him playing another position is absurd. He was a mobile QB, but never really a running QB. His career high in rushing in the NFL was 268 yards. Maybe he ran more in the CFL, I don't know. But to me it seems like suggesting he should play WR or RB or DB isn't a conclusion you could come to from any sort of reasonable analysis of his skills.

Most all running QBs run the most early in their careers ...Moons early career (6 years?) was in CFL

That's true and I'm trying to dig up his CFL rushing stats to no avail. If anyone else can find them, please post them.That said, most of these other QBs we've discussed were option quarterbacks who made their mark with their athleticism and running ability. Moon was always a passer first, and I really don't think he was an NFL-caliber athlete in terms of speed, agility, jumping, etc. at all.

I wasn't alive in 1978 and I don't really know enough about Moon's situation to say it was racism. But I highly doubt that any white players with similar skill sets were asked to give up on playing QB.

CFL Statistics: 1978-1983 Edmonton Eskimos – Passing: 2382-1369-21,228, 144 TDs, 77 INTs, 93.8 Rtg.; Rushing: 330-1700, 16 TDsSource: Pro Football Hall of Fame

Thank you.So per season, that works out to 228-397, 3538 yards, 24 TDs, 13 INTs; 55 carries, 283 yards, 3 TDs.

A little more running than he did in the NFL, which makes sense since he was younger, but by no means a running QB.

You're welcome.Keep in mind the CFL was / is a far more wide-open game with just 2 downs to work with (punt on 3rd), so the QB scrambling a bit more would be expected. Yet his average wasn't fantastic.

Something else I'd like to mention - back in this era the draft was 12 rounds, not 7, so it really is surprising that he wasn't a later pick at least by SOME team.

 

[Z-Dog]

I was just wondering about any other guys who "bucked the system" and won, other than Warren Moon. I wouldn't say Kordell Stewart would fit that category. Gotta wonder what his career would have been had he stayed "Slash".

Stewart had (has?) a pretty decent NFL career. Had a good shot at a title, played for some quality organzations, put up some memorable plays and a great season. Played two positions. If he had stayed as a WR who sometimes throws the ball on a trick play, I don't think he would have been any better than Randle-El.I think that Moon wasn't drafted b/c of racism compounded with other things. I think coaches didn't like his attitude with regards to changing positions. I think scouts were less likely to stick their necks out for a black QB with only one outstanding college season. I also feel that GMs felt that his value was lower if he was unwilling to consider another position b/c things weren't working out at QB. I would be interested to know if ANY other black QBs aside from Williams were drafted that year by the NFL. After all, it only takes one enlightened team to make a black QB a draft pick, so Williams alone is not really much evidence for racism or lack thereof at that time. Of course, I'd say the absence of black QBs from the position until the late 70 - early 80s is pretty good evidence of some kind of racism.