Was Baker Mayfield the Problem in CLE? (1 Viewer)

[MAC_32]

Think the Browns would like a do-over?

No, Baker isn't what he is today without what happened in 2021-2022

Come on, man. That team is in ruin right now. If you don’t think they’d like to undo that move you’re not being objective..

It's revisionist history to suggest otherwise. Divorce was the only viable option.

 

[Grahamburn]

Think the Browns would like a do-over?

No, Baker isn't what he is today without what happened in 2021-2022

Come on, man. That team is in ruin right now. If you don’t think they’d like to undo that move you’re not being objective..

It's revisionist history to suggest otherwise. Divorce was the only viable option.

Well, there’s the divorce, and then there’s the new wife you left him for.

 

[MAC_32]

Think the Browns would like a do-over?

No, Baker isn't what he is today without what happened in 2021-2022

Come on, man. That team is in ruin right now. If you don’t think they’d like to undo that move you’re not being objective..

It's revisionist history to suggest otherwise. Divorce was the only viable option.

Well, there’s the divorce, and then there’s the new wife you left him for.

Baker needed to fail to get his head back on straight. Divorce was necessary because he lost the locker room, this wasn't an upstairs thing like most Browns eff ups.

 

[Grahamburn]

Think the Browns would like a do-over?

No, Baker isn't what he is today without what happened in 2021-2022

Come on, man. That team is in ruin right now. If you don’t think they’d like to undo that move you’re not being objective..

It's revisionist history to suggest otherwise. Divorce was the only viable option.

Well, there’s the divorce, and then there’s the new wife you left him for.

Baker needed to fail to get his head back on straight. Divorce was necessary because he lost the locker room, this wasn't an upstairs thing like most Browns eff ups.

I think you’re missing my point.

It’s one thing to move on from Baker. It’s another to mortgage literally everything for Watson.

It’s the worst trade in the history of the NFL, man.

 

[MAC_32]

Oh, that's a whole different subject. I understand the circumstances that led to the move, but when the one you're courting says no, listen. Not having another viable path at that moment with a roster ready to compete put Jimmy in a position to do what he does worst.

 

[Da Guru]

What QB has had success in Cleveland?

 

[Da Guru]

What QB has had success in Cleveland? Bernie Kosar?

 

[Grahamburn]

Oh, that's a whole different subject. I understand the circumstances that led to the move, but when the one you're courting says no, listen. Not having another viable path at that moment with a roster ready to compete put Jimmy in a position to do what he does worst.

You’re assuming you had a roster ready to compete because you had names.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Nope.

Holy resurrected topics, Batman!

POW!

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Think the Browns would like a do-over?

No, Baker isn't what he is today without what happened in 2021-2022

Come on, man. That team is in ruin right now. If you don’t think they’d like to undo that move you’re not being objective..

It's revisionist history to suggest otherwise. Divorce was the only viable option.

Well, there’s the divorce, and then there’s the new wife you left him for.

Baker needed to fail to get his head back on straight. Divorce was necessary because he lost the locker room, this wasn't an upstairs thing like most Browns eff ups.

I think you’re missing my point.

It’s one thing to move on from Baker. It’s another to mortgage literally everything for Watson.

It’s the worst trade in the history of the NFL, man.

Seems obvious that the best course of action would have been to keep building around Mayfield & hire competent coaching, neither of which CLE does well.

 

[Grahamburn]

Nope.

Holy resurrected topics, Batman!

POW!

Question got answered!!

I was searching for the Baker thread to post his TD numbers, because, awesome, and of course the search function is kind of funky.

This thread popped up.

 

[Grahamburn]

Poll was 43-10 when I bumped it. 43-17 now. Baker would be proud of the comeback, fellas.

 

[Grahamburn]

after this season, we'll know with absolute certainty, imo.

right now, looking likelier he'll just, unfortunately, be JAG.... but if he stays healthy, w an actual #1 receiver, and the coach actually RUNS the ball instead of making him throw excessively for no reason, i think he can be more than capable.

anyways.... if deshaun was available, id take him 100% today.

Gotta trust your gut. Stick to your guns. You were right all along. Don’t give up so easily.

 

[MAC_32]

Oh, that's a whole different subject. I understand the circumstances that led to the move, but when the one you're courting says no, listen. Not having another viable path at that moment with a roster ready to compete put Jimmy in a position to do what he does worst.

You’re assuming you had a roster ready to compete because you had names.

The team was this close to an AFC Championship Game

Then Baker destroyed his shoulder, refused surgery, and lost the locker room. It was a roster in a window, that's why Flacco was able to work magic with this group from the couch. But it's all over now

 

[Gr00vus]

What QB has had success in Cleveland? Bernie Kosar?

Brian Sipe had a few good seasons too.

 

[Chaka]

What QB has had success in Cleveland? Bernie Kosar?

Brian Sipe had a few good seasons too.

Otto Graham

 

[fatness]

I was searching for the Baker thread to post his TD numbers, because, awesome, and of course the search function is kind of funky.

This thread popped up.

I recall getting a bit of grief for bumping an old topic several weeks ago. Same reason -- funky search tool.

 

[N Zone]

Baker Mayfield had an injury to his throwing arm his final season in Cleveland. He played despite the injury. Totally unfair to evaluate his performance that year.

 

[MAC_32]

Baker Mayfield had an injury to his throwing arm his final season in Cleveland. He played despite the injury. Totally unfair to evaluate his performance that year.

Agreed. A lot of people did anyway. The internet is not kind to those if anyone cares to go digging. Baker botched managing that season, but the critics of his production always warranted good chuckles. Probably the same people that never liked him as a prospect.

 

[N Zone]

Baker Mayfield had an injury to his throwing arm his final season in Cleveland. He played despite the injury. Totally unfair to evaluate his performance that year.

Agreed. A lot of people did anyway. The internet is not kind to those if anyone cares to go digging. Baker botched managing that season, but the critics of his production always warranted good chuckles. Probably the same people that never liked him as a prospect.

Unfortunately, his own team's (Browns) management and coaching staff did the same.

 

[Chaka]

The biggest loser is Progressive Insurance. Those commercials were

 

[Grahamburn]

Oh, that's a whole different subject. I understand the circumstances that led to the move, but when the one you're courting says no, listen. Not having another viable path at that moment with a roster ready to compete put Jimmy in a position to do what he does worst.

You’re assuming you had a roster ready to compete because you had names.

The team was this close to an AFC Championship Game

Then Baker destroyed his shoulder, refused surgery, and lost the locker room. It was a roster in a window, that's why Flacco was able to work magic with this group from the couch. But it's all over now

I remember. Players want to play. They should have shut him down. Letting him play when he was obviously injured and then scapegoating him was ridiculous and I’m glad it bit them directly in the ***.

 

[MAC_32]

Baker Mayfield had an injury to his throwing arm his final season in Cleveland. He played despite the injury. Totally unfair to evaluate his performance that year.

Agreed. A lot of people did anyway. The internet is not kind to those if anyone cares to go digging. Baker botched managing that season, but the critics of his production always warranted good chuckles. Probably the same people that never liked him as a prospect.

Unfortunately, his own team's (Browns) management and coaching staff did the same.

I don't think that played into the decision.

 

[MAC_32]

I remember. Players want to play. They should have shut him down. Letting him play when he was obviously injured and then scapegoating him was ridiculous and I’m glad it bit them directly in the ***.

If you want to honestly unpack all this you're going to have to pivot from this revisionist history angle. Teams can't unilaterally decide to shut someone down, especially if they're supposed to be the leader of the team. His ego ripped that locker room apart and the experience helped shape what he is today. I was one of the few that continued to speak favorably about him during the whole ordeal, but doing so knowing it was never going to work here. I'm glad to see this play out the way it did for Baker. Just obviously hoped it'd have been a win-win. Oh, well.

 

[Chaka]

I remember. Players want to play. They should have shut him down. Letting him play when he was obviously injured and then scapegoating him was ridiculous and I’m glad it bit them directly in the ***.

If you want to honestly unpack all this you're going to have to pivot from this revisionist history angle. Teams can't unilaterally decide to shut someone down, especially if they're supposed to be the leader of the team. His ego ripped that locker room apart and the experience helped shape what he is today. I was one of the few that continued to speak favorably about him during the whole ordeal, but doing so knowing it was never going to work here. I'm glad to see this play out the way it did for Baker. Just obviously hoped it'd have been a win-win. Oh, well.

That is a confident assertion and it seems a little reductionist.

 

[Grahamburn]

43-21!

Let’s go, Commies! Get Baker in the playoffs again and we can win this thing!

 

[Ministry of Pain]

43-21!

Let’s go, Commies! Get Baker in the playoffs again and we can win this thing!

22 reporting for duty

 

[rockaction]

I didn’t care for him because he came back his second year grossly out of shape. He’d been told to bulk up and put on bad weight. I can’t stand athletes whose only job it is to maintain a level of fitness and they can’t do it.

I rostered him everywhere that year, and he sucked. I remember it clear as a bell on a cold, gray day. He looked like he would light up the league after his first year and keep improving, but defensive coordinators got the book on him and the Browns offense and he regressed badly.

He is nothing like the quarterback he was then. He truly needed a lot of time to develop. You could see it start to turn around when he began to use his competitiveness in preparation (like staying up 24 hours straight to get accustomed to McVay’s playbook for what was only a spot start—and winning that spot start). That’s the second time I believed a bit in Baker.

 

[MAC_32]

He is nothing like the quarterback he was then.

...and what he did in 2021 was much MUCH worse than that season. This is America, we love a come back story, and this is a great one. Pot shots at organization's run by Butters & Timmay are all part of the fun and there are 230 million of them to hurl, so there's no need to distort this part of his story. Embrace what he was and what he did to get on the right path.

 

[Soulfly3]

Absolute BALLER.
Nothing makes me happier than to see my guy flourish. Wish it was in Cleveland, but alas, it wasn't meant to be. As per.

 

[Capella]

Think the Browns would like a do-over?

No, Baker isn't what he is today without what happened in 2021-2022

lol didn’t he help the Browns, the BROWNS, win a playoff game in 2020?

 

[Capella]

The biggest loser is Progressive Insurance. Those commercials were

He’s going to have a 40 touchdown season. Let’s get him on that pirate ship.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The biggest loser is Progressive Insurance. Those commercials were

He’s going to have a 40 touchdown season. Let’s get him on that pirate ship.

They should definitely have him living on the pirate ship in the commercials, it would be hilarious
-It's hard to believe those numbers you just posted and he went at least half the season without Godwin

 

[Grahamburn]

The biggest loser is Progressive Insurance. Those commercials were

He’s going to have a 40 touchdown season. Let’s get him on that pirate ship.

The Gus Swayze bit where one of the Bucs' super fans says they want to see him do a pirate ship commercial, and then he chimes in with, "I wish he'd just focus on football" slayed me.

 

[Grahamburn]

He is nothing like the quarterback he was then.

...and what he did in 2021 was much MUCH worse than that season. This is America, we love a come back story, and this is a great one. Pot shots at organization's run by Butters & Timmay are all part of the fun and there are 230 million of them to hurl, so there's no need to distort this part of his story. Embrace what he was and what he did to get on the right path.

That's the question posed in the thread though. Was Baker the problem in Cleveland? Clearly the answer is no. They may have just needed to part ways, and he may have needed to handle things better, but it's clear there are multiple layers of issues in that organization causing those needs.

 

[Rubi]

Week 18
Opening line
Bucs -14
O/U 43 1/2

 

[MAC_32]

He is nothing like the quarterback he was then.

...and what he did in 2021 was much MUCH worse than that season. This is America, we love a come back story, and this is a great one. Pot shots at organization's run by Butters & Timmay are all part of the fun and there are 230 million of them to hurl, so there's no need to distort this part of his story. Embrace what he was and what he did to get on the right path.

That's the question posed in the thread though. Was Baker the problem in Cleveland? Clearly the answer is no. They may have just needed to part ways, and he may have needed to handle things better, but it's clear there are multiple layers of issues in that organization causing those needs.

We agree- see my contributions from that time, not hind sight. Below is one, but not the only one.

Where I think Mayfield gets annoyed, is that the 2021 season is being held as an example of what he is as a QB. Some of that is due to an unreasonable recency bias that people have. I'd argue 2021 is the least relevant season in determining if Mayfield is a good QB. Just like it is for Russell Wilson as well. They both were playing through major injuries, and it clearly affected them both. The difference is Wilson has MVP caliber seasons on his resume, where Mayfield just has solid seasons. But in the case of both guys, I'd argue what happened in 2020 is more relevant than 2021.

This is the public criticism, which I agree is mostly irrelevant. I don't think that's the primary criticism within the Browns org though. If he were talented enough to overcome his immaturity then perhaps it's something they'd be willing to work through. He isn't though. And as is I think that's the deal breaker.

This, like anything really, isn't binary.

 

[Grahamburn]

He is nothing like the quarterback he was then.

...and what he did in 2021 was much MUCH worse than that season. This is America, we love a come back story, and this is a great one. Pot shots at organization's run by Butters & Timmay are all part of the fun and there are 230 million of them to hurl, so there's no need to distort this part of his story. Embrace what he was and what he did to get on the right path.

That's the question posed in the thread though. Was Baker the problem in Cleveland? Clearly the answer is no. They may have just needed to part ways, and he may have needed to handle things better, but it's clear there are multiple layers of issues in that organization causing those needs.

We agree- see my contributions from that time, not hind sight. Below is one, but not the only one.

Where I think Mayfield gets annoyed, is that the 2021 season is being held as an example of what he is as a QB. Some of that is due to an unreasonable recency bias that people have. I'd argue 2021 is the least relevant season in determining if Mayfield is a good QB. Just like it is for Russell Wilson as well. They both were playing through major injuries, and it clearly affected them both. The difference is Wilson has MVP caliber seasons on his resume, where Mayfield just has solid seasons. But in the case of both guys, I'd argue what happened in 2020 is more relevant than 2021.

This is the public criticism, which I agree is mostly irrelevant. I don't think that's the primary criticism within the Browns org though. If he were talented enough to overcome his immaturity then perhaps it's something they'd be willing to work through. He isn't though. And as is I think that's the deal breaker.

This, like anything really, isn't binary.

Didn't the team put those things out there though? The childish/immaturity stuff? To basically justify the deal for Watson and scapegoat Mayfield for their own futility because they wanted an "adult."

I get it that the swag stuff doesn't go over well when you're losing, but I don't remember his teammates (other than OBJ's Dad tweeting bad throws, which is a whole other layer of ridiculous) coming out and chastising him for being a poor leader?

His Bucs' teammates would take a bullet for him.

Anyway, I'll move on. Just thought it was funny to stumble upon this as he threw for 5 TDs to put his team in position to win the division for the 4th year in a row.

 

[Hankmoody]

If you want to honestly unpack all this you're going to have to pivot from this revisionist history angle. Teams can't unilaterally decide to shut someone down, especially if they're supposed to be the leader of the team. His ego ripped that locker room apart and the experience helped shape what he is today. I was one of the few that continued to speak favorably about him during the whole ordeal, but doing so knowing it was never going to work here. I'm glad to see this play out the way it did for Baker. Just obviously hoped it'd have been a win-win. Oh, well.

Of course they can. Put the guy on IR and it's done. Players don't make that choice and can't veto it, it's a club transaction. You think Maxx Crosby wouldn't be out there right now if the Raiders hadn't shut it down? That Tua wouldn't have gone back out a week after bouncing his brain like a basketball had they let him? You don't get to this elite alpha level without the drive and passion to do what you do in any circumstance. Sometimes the team needs to protect the player from themselves.

I agree with you that he would be less likely to have made the turnaround had he stayed. Baker's the kind of guy that almost NEEDS negativity to fuel himself. Hell had they shut him down he probably could have been pissed enough about that to turn it into some hate to burn the engine.

 

[MAC_32]

He is nothing like the quarterback he was then.

...and what he did in 2021 was much MUCH worse than that season. This is America, we love a come back story, and this is a great one. Pot shots at organization's run by Butters & Timmay are all part of the fun and there are 230 million of them to hurl, so there's no need to distort this part of his story. Embrace what he was and what he did to get on the right path.

That's the question posed in the thread though. Was Baker the problem in Cleveland? Clearly the answer is no. They may have just needed to part ways, and he may have needed to handle things better, but it's clear there are multiple layers of issues in that organization causing those needs.

We agree- see my contributions from that time, not hind sight. Below is one, but not the only one.

Where I think Mayfield gets annoyed, is that the 2021 season is being held as an example of what he is as a QB. Some of that is due to an unreasonable recency bias that people have. I'd argue 2021 is the least relevant season in determining if Mayfield is a good QB. Just like it is for Russell Wilson as well. They both were playing through major injuries, and it clearly affected them both. The difference is Wilson has MVP caliber seasons on his resume, where Mayfield just has solid seasons. But in the case of both guys, I'd argue what happened in 2020 is more relevant than 2021.

This is the public criticism, which I agree is mostly irrelevant. I don't think that's the primary criticism within the Browns org though. If he were talented enough to overcome his immaturity then perhaps it's something they'd be willing to work through. He isn't though. And as is I think that's the deal breaker.

This, like anything really, isn't binary.

Didn't the team put those things out there though? The childish/immaturity stuff? To basically justify the deal for Watson and scapegoat Mayfield for their own futility because they wanted an "adult."

I get it that the swag stuff doesn't go over well when you're losing, but I don't remember his teammates (other than OBJ's Dad tweeting bad throws, which is a whole other layer of ridiculous) coming out and chastising him for being a poor leader?

His Bucs' teammates would take a bullet for him.

Anyway, I'll move on. Just thought it was funny to stumble upon this as he threw for 5 TDs to put his team in position to win the division for the 4th year in a row.

Behind the scenes were ugly in the locker room. He had those in his bunker ready to go to war for him and others that he lost, not just OBJ. The locker room was torn. Seems the team left the door open to return anyway, but Baker slammed it shut when the team took the Watson meeting. His immature response appeared to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Seems to me the statement should be "Baker Mayfield was not the solution in Cleveland".

But then again, you could put any name in there and that statement would be true.