JamboTaylor
Footballguy
It happens if we're talking about QBs.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Weeden to start from Day One? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jason Wood
- Start date
massraider
Footballguy
Can I get a list? Palmer sat his rookie year. Who else?
fatness
Footballguy
I've never thought Holmgren knew what he was doing on personnel matters.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Nick Foles to Philly. BJ Coleman to GB.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Aaron Rogers.
nxmehta
Footballguy
Another Browns homer confirming this Browns homer's opinion. Weeden is probably going to start day one.I'm not sure what Bracie's going on about... I guess it's been a little bit of a whirlwind ride in Cleveland the last few days.Everyone have a
Last edited by a moderator:
gandalas
Footballguy
Well, we can't exactly ignore you and your 61,000 posts....we would lose half the forums!!!Back on topic, I was leery about the pick when we made it, but I am no excited to see what weed on can do. He should be more prepared to start from day 1 than any qb this side of Luck.
Fensalk
Footballguy
I've followed the Browns for a long time. I can tell you the Browns fanbase is rabid but not that bright. They always want the skill position players. Their attitude after this draft is that they are upset they took an OT in round 2 instead of a WR. Most Browns fans want the team to draft RB/QB/WR every year.The fanbase doesn't understand that you win in the trenches. Never has. I've often wondered if the immense pressure from the fanbase to draft skill position players influences the GM to go that route, leaving the line of scrimmage weak. I wonder that because their has to be some reason the Browns braintrust keep losing their minds and reaching for skill position players, even though they keep firing and hiring new GMs every few years.
If the Browns ever built a winning tradition, I've worried that the fanbase would turn into the loudest, most arrogant tools ever. I mean if you look at the Browns thread, they are thumping their chest just because they selected Weeden when most draft experts are scratching their heads. If they actually won some games consistently, they'd be unbearable. They say act like you've been there before. Well, Browns fans have never been there before.
glumpy
breeze
WAS IT OVER WHEN THE GERMANS BOMBED PEARL HARBOR!?
rizzler
Footballguy
Most NFL know this, and is the reason they leave us alone.You don't generally hear fans talk smack about the Browns, and mostly just compliment our fan base... and even wish for us to have a good season.Thing I agree with you is, if we ever start winning... We'd generally be among the most obnoxious, pompous fans in the NFL. As if the pasty decades never happened.
gandalas
Footballguy
You can't be more wrong about the drafting habits, at least. We have gone o-line or d line in the first round in probably 8+ of the past years since we rejoined the league. Courtney brown, Gerard Warren, 3 first round centers, Joe Thomas, Phil Taylor. There is 7 without me even looking.
Fensalk
Footballguy
1. You have to compare them to other teams, not just look at the Browns.2. You have to look at more than the first round.
The Browns aren't as committed to building the lines as other teams like the Steelers and Patriots.
It's not like they were going to do anything this year anyway. They're coming off a 4-12 season and the Ravens, Steelers and Bengals aren't going to fall apart all of the sudden. If there's any brains in the organization they just left last year's white flag up and will start Weeden Week 1 for some on the job training.
gandalas
Footballguy
OK, If you say so...
Fensalk
Footballguy
Since 1999, the Patriots have used 21 selections in the first four rounds on both lines. Not all of them pan out, of course, but they create a pipeline of talent so they don't suck where talent is needed most.
The Steelers have used 20 selections in the trenches since 1999.
The Browns have used 12 picks since 1999. Its not even close.
The Steelers have used 20 selections in the trenches since 1999.
The Browns have used 12 picks since 1999. Its not even close.
rizzler
Footballguy
I think people are neglecting how HUGE of an impact Richardson and Weeden will have on this team (even though Im not a huge Weeden fan).This is a team that had little to no running game to burn the clock, gain the tough short yards for 1st down, or make the big play to get those important big plays/TDs.We also lacked a mature QB who didnt have the arm of an overcooked strand of angel hair pasta. I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see us go .500 this season, and don't consider that to be a huge stretch by any means. Likely? Perhaps not totally likely. But to settle/expect another 4-12, hell nah.
Fensalk
Footballguy
We're going into year 3 of Holmgren-Heckert. If they start out by going 5-11, 4-12, and something like 2-14 in their first three years, there is a HIGH probability Lerner comes in and cleans house. He almost has to. That would be one of their worst first 3 seasons of any front office in modern NFL history. How do you keep your job with a record like that?I think the front office is on the hot seat if they don't show serious improvement in 2012.
Fensalk
Footballguy
The Browns have put themselves in a position where they are banking that a rookie QB will come in and beat expectations in year 1. He has to hit the ground running. If there are growing pains there, if he struggles, the Browns will quickly be buried as teams focus on stopping the run and dare Weeden to beat them. Most reasonable people would expect a rookie QB to struggle a lot in their first year. You can't sit there and say "Oh well Weeden definitely is going to exceed expectations as a rookie. He's going to play out of his mind and the Browns will go 8-8." "Never mistake hope for a plan." -- Bill Walsh.I think a reasonable expectation is that Weeden plays well by year 3. But Holmgren and Heckert may not survive 2012, especially with so many experts panning the decision to reach for Weeden. The critics will be coming out of the woodwork if Weeden doesn't play well, which wouldn't be the case for RGIII.
If that was the behind the scenes dynamic, I doubt Weeden would have been the pick.
Fensalk
Footballguy
Why doubt it? Front offices can make errors of judgment.Pressure cooks a ham.
rizzler
Footballguy
Play out of his mind?He just needs to top McCoy's 2700/14 from last season. To me, that's not playing "out of your mind", that's just playing. And McCoy didn't have a Trent Richardson behind him. Or an improved o-line.8-8 to me won't be a product of "out of your mind" football. It'll be a product of decent improvements throughout and a lot of hard work.Definitely attainable.
Fensalk
Footballguy
Look I get it. Its been tough these past 20 years to be a Browns fan. You want to believe there is light at the end of the tunnel. But you must admit there is a massive disconnect between Browns fans overjoyed with the Weeden pick and experts who are laughing at it. You might be too close to the situation and allowing your emotions to trump logic.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Peyton Manning went what? 3-13 his first year? With Marvin Harrison and a decent O-Line in place.
I'm pretty sure Peyton Manning didn't make his first start at the age that Jim Brown retired after playing 9 years in the NFL.
In his second season he put it together and they never looked back.
Heckertt isn't 64 years old but Mike Holmgren is and their have been rumors that he won't be around in a few years so he is the guy who pushed to get the RB AND the QB in this draft. Heckertt wasn't looking to make a move-up for T-Rich, it was Holmgren. There was no reason to make that move, it sucked. No GM would trade down and only pick up three late picks FORTY FIVE MINUTES BEFORE THE DRAFT STARTED AND AN HOUR BEFORE HE WAS SCHEDULED TO BE ON THE CLOCK!
Use your head because Holmgren didn't. He is the reason the team shat is pants and made that move. His old age and desire to make a big splash before he rides off into the sunset.
“Instead of waiting and rolling the dice a little bit perhaps and seeing another way to go there, we said, ‘Let’s not run the risk,” Holmgren said of Weeden.
Also Weeden was not told that he would start.
Weeden was NOT told he was the starter
And when he does eventually start it will TAKE HIM TWO YEARS BEFORE HE MASTERS THE WCO.
Lets see who can't understand that obvious statement.
Any guy can start as a rookie, does that mean he has MASTERED the offense>???? NOOOOOOOOOOO.
Rookie QBs who have never played under the center, who had an offense that NEVER HUDDLED. Who basically never had a playbook and who are older than Aarron Rodgers and haven't even seen an NFL playbook but now have to come in and learn to take snaps and take drops and then learn a WCO won't come in and have it MASTERED even if by some miracle they start the first game.
Peyton Manning 3-13 his first year.
So by the time this guy 'might' have the WCO MASTERED is two years out when he will be 31 years old. No one knows if he will MASTER the WCO.
If he starts who cares? The key with Weeden is if/when he can ever MASTER the WCO and we won't know if he can master it for two years. He can crap out anytime or get injured anytime but his upside window to not just take snaps and play behind center is two years for learning and MASTERING the WCO.
Also the Browns still lack a true #1 WR. Their QB isn't ready. They took the RB before they had the other key pieces in place.
Indy had their #1 WR in Marvin Harrison. They had their OLT in place, forget his name. They THEN got Peyton and the next year they got Edge James.
Trent already has had surgery on his knee. Weeden already has had an issure with his passing (pitching) shoulder.
Richardson will play great, I have no doubt about that.
Weeden 'could possibly' learn the WCO and have it mastered in two years and the Browns 'could possibly' get that #1 WR next year.
It is possible that it could all come together.
Oh and that is just on the offensive side of the ball. The team still lacks pass rushers and a free safety and depth.
Richardson might make them good enough to push them out of any shot to get that #1 WR or pass rusher next year. Weeden's clock was ticking long before he got drafted.
Rizzler can jizzler all over Richardson's jock all he wants.
This draft is all Holmgren and his 64 years with his short NFL life and his desperation.
That is why he forced the Weeden pick and the T-Rich trade. Instead of setting this team up for building a long term winning team they rolled the dice to win now.
They improved the RB situation but it may have cost the fans a long term winning team.
I'm pretty sure Peyton Manning didn't make his first start at the age that Jim Brown retired after playing 9 years in the NFL.
In his second season he put it together and they never looked back.
Heckertt isn't 64 years old but Mike Holmgren is and their have been rumors that he won't be around in a few years so he is the guy who pushed to get the RB AND the QB in this draft. Heckertt wasn't looking to make a move-up for T-Rich, it was Holmgren. There was no reason to make that move, it sucked. No GM would trade down and only pick up three late picks FORTY FIVE MINUTES BEFORE THE DRAFT STARTED AND AN HOUR BEFORE HE WAS SCHEDULED TO BE ON THE CLOCK!
Use your head because Holmgren didn't. He is the reason the team shat is pants and made that move. His old age and desire to make a big splash before he rides off into the sunset.
“Instead of waiting and rolling the dice a little bit perhaps and seeing another way to go there, we said, ‘Let’s not run the risk,” Holmgren said of Weeden.
Also Weeden was not told that he would start.
Weeden was NOT told he was the starter
Not even worth saying that they WANT him to start and play well from day-one but no one said that.Also if he isn't ready they will not push it.
And when he does eventually start it will TAKE HIM TWO YEARS BEFORE HE MASTERS THE WCO.
Lets see who can't understand that obvious statement.
Any guy can start as a rookie, does that mean he has MASTERED the offense>???? NOOOOOOOOOOO.
Rookie QBs who have never played under the center, who had an offense that NEVER HUDDLED. Who basically never had a playbook and who are older than Aarron Rodgers and haven't even seen an NFL playbook but now have to come in and learn to take snaps and take drops and then learn a WCO won't come in and have it MASTERED even if by some miracle they start the first game.
Peyton Manning 3-13 his first year.
So by the time this guy 'might' have the WCO MASTERED is two years out when he will be 31 years old. No one knows if he will MASTER the WCO.
If he starts who cares? The key with Weeden is if/when he can ever MASTER the WCO and we won't know if he can master it for two years. He can crap out anytime or get injured anytime but his upside window to not just take snaps and play behind center is two years for learning and MASTERING the WCO.
Also the Browns still lack a true #1 WR. Their QB isn't ready. They took the RB before they had the other key pieces in place.
Indy had their #1 WR in Marvin Harrison. They had their OLT in place, forget his name. They THEN got Peyton and the next year they got Edge James.
Trent already has had surgery on his knee. Weeden already has had an issure with his passing (pitching) shoulder.
Richardson will play great, I have no doubt about that.
Weeden 'could possibly' learn the WCO and have it mastered in two years and the Browns 'could possibly' get that #1 WR next year.
It is possible that it could all come together.
Oh and that is just on the offensive side of the ball. The team still lacks pass rushers and a free safety and depth.
Richardson might make them good enough to push them out of any shot to get that #1 WR or pass rusher next year. Weeden's clock was ticking long before he got drafted.
Rizzler can jizzler all over Richardson's jock all he wants.
This draft is all Holmgren and his 64 years with his short NFL life and his desperation.
That is why he forced the Weeden pick and the T-Rich trade. Instead of setting this team up for building a long term winning team they rolled the dice to win now.
They improved the RB situation but it may have cost the fans a long term winning team.
nxmehta
Footballguy
This is absolute bull#### and you know it BGP. Just because we dump on you in the Browns thread doesn't mean that you should just make things up about what we say in there.
That's the first 6 IMMEDIATE posts after the Weeden pick. No cherry picking. Do you see chest thumping here?We know your opinion of Browns fans is very low. We get it. But don't misrepresent what we're saying.
Last edited by a moderator:
Wyld Stallyns
Footballguy
The Browns can say there's an open QB competition all they want, but the only way Weeden isn't the IMMEDIATE starter for Game 1 is if he somehow looks inexplicably bad in camp and/or McCoy somehow looks absolutely phenomenal... Neither of which will likely happen, so therefore Weeden is our week 1 starter.
LINK
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=993
sure seems like the staff will do everything in its power to let weeden start. tho there may be a lot of spin in this article.
sure seems like the staff will do everything in its power to let weeden start. tho there may be a lot of spin in this article.
