Were You Home-Schooled? (1 Viewer)

[cstu]

Is this concerning?

There all of FIVE home schooled freshman were admitted to Princeton this year. That's out of some 1400, or a minuscule 0.0036%. There are only three home schoolers in Harvard's freshman class. Yale has only 2. Why?

Jeff Brenzel, Dean of Undergraduate Admissions at Yale, explains...

"We see only a few homeschooled applicants, and we do occasionally admit a homeschooled student. Evaluation is usually difficult, however. It helps if the applicant has taken some college level courses, and we can get evaluations from those teachers. We are not keen on homeschooled students where the only evaluations come from parents and the only other information available consists of test scores."

 

[Worm]

Out of all the people groups in the U.S., I find it amazing that someone can find the energy to bash home school parents.

 

[KCitons]

I believe a kid's education depends on the support they receive at home.

Aren't home school parents just taking this a step farther?

Kind of. If the child is in public/private school, then the parent is supporting whatever path the school board, school and teacher has set forth.

In contrast, the home school parents will be the ones to choose the path.

The one thing that I find disturbing about homeschooling is the different regulations from state to state. Some states have very lenient rules on curriculum, testing, and parent qualifications. While others require rigid testing and submitted documentation of progress. I would think with something as important as education, there would be a minimum standard across the board.

Regardless of the path there are still basics that kids need to learn. How about using all the time and energy you would spend on homeschooling to instead supplement your kids education in public school?

That would be an option. But why have the kid sit in school for 8 hours a day, only to come home and spend more time working on school?

Since you brought it up, what would you consider basic skills that need to be learned? I know from my schooling that I was never taught how to balance a budget, I was never taught about the effects of credit card interest. I was given sex education, but since it was held in a Catholic school environment, some important things were left out. One thing that I have tried to do from day one is incorporate what my kids learn into everyday life. Education should serve a purpose. If it doesn't, then it's just worthless trivia.

In the case of our kids, we were dealing two different ends of the spectrum. My daughter was very board with public school by the 4th grade, while my twin sons were having difficulty reaching the minimum level of reading for 2nd graders. None of our kids were getting what they needed out of the school system. After a couple of meetings with teachers, we did spend a lot of time supplementing their schoolwork. It didn't take long to realized the extra time was taxing on the kids.

I went to private Catholic schools from K-12. I often wondered what kids in public schools were doing while I was going to mass once a week or taking an Old Testament class. The state of Nebraska has a minimum hours requirement, along with a basic subject requirement. While people bash public schools, are they getting an extra hour of math or science, while I'm spending an hour in a Church?

 

[babydemon90]

I would say, homeschooling is probably more beneficial and the elementary age level. At that age - easy enough to find social events and activities for the kids, and the material is pretty easy. At the high school level - it is far more difficult. I was home schooled in high school - and it was bad. When I went to college, I was far behind where I thought I was, and had to take a much lesser level of math then I though I could.

That said - I am sure home-school experiences are as varied as there are people - and the internet and such being around today probably helps a ton. Resources were scarce back then...

 

[KCitons]

Is this concerning?

There all of FIVE home schooled freshman were admitted to Princeton this year. That's out of some 1400, or a minuscule 0.0036%. There are only three home schoolers in Harvard's freshman class. Yale has only 2. Why?

Jeff Brenzel, Dean of Undergraduate Admissions at Yale, explains...

"We see only a few homeschooled applicants, and we do occasionally admit a homeschooled student. Evaluation is usually difficult, however. It helps if the applicant has taken some college level courses, and we can get evaluations from those teachers. We are not keen on homeschooled students where the only evaluations come from parents and the only other information available consists of test scores."

The admissions process for those school are some of the most stringent. Often times, home school transcripts are maintained by parents.

On a similar note. My car insurance company would require me to submit an ACT or SAT score for my kids each quarter, in order for them to qualify for the good student discount. Other kids are able to submit a copy of their report card.

Who would want to take the ACT's every 3 months?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Out of all the people groups in the U.S., I find it amazing that someone can find the energy to bash home school parents.

Because people are generally both ignorant and outspoken. Most people I know think of homeschooled kids as the neighborhood freaks who can't socialize with anyone. It's so far from the truth and people are generally ignorant about homeschooling but they have a ton of opinions about those that do it.

 

[pollardsvision]

I don't think I'd ever choose the homeschooling route, but I don't understand the backlash towards it either.

Sure, there are plenty of morons doing it poorly, but if a parent wants to put in the time and effort to do it well, more power to them. I used to run into a lot homeschooling families in my old job and they were some of the greatest families you'd ever want to meet.

If parents want to spend more time with their children helping to make sure they get a great education, that seems like something to encourage.

Have you not been reading Lombardi's posts?

Most of them.

I assume you mean the parts about him not wanting his kids to the liberal virus running rampant in NE public schools.

As long as he isn't keeping the kids home to help build the fallout shelter and stockpile automatic weapons, or some serious religious brainwashing (beyond the general societal norms) or something to that effect, I don't think it's a problem.

Most parents say they want kids their kids to be exposed to many viewpoints, then decide for themselves blah blah blah, but I think most all parents are going to end up pushing their views on their children one way or another.

For a lot of kids, they'll accept those views as their own. For others, they'll rebel against them.

Most parents try to indoctrinate their children and I think a certain amount is perfectly healthy. It's hard to define how much is healthy, but I think it's like pron. You just know it when you see it.

If they kids grow up to be FOX News loving conservatives, so be it. I know plenty of really great people that remain that way in spite of that sort of thing.

The overall point is simply that most homeschool parents (and it sounds like lombardi and the others here fall in this category) are hardworking, loving parents choosing to take a very active role in their children's lives. The benefits of that far outweigh any brainwashing that might take place.

 

[teamramrod]

Unless I missed it...

Yes and the teacher was hot.

peace

 

[KCitons]

Homeschool parents are like everyone else. I make mistakes at times. I try not to push my personal views on my kids. When I find I am pressing one side of an issue, we take the time to explore both sides. Sometimes it strengthens my view, other times I end up learning something new. This would rarely happen in a school environment. I would have been kicked out of my Catholic High School if I had done a project on evolution or the benefits of atheism.

Our state has different designations. One for people that homeschool for religious purposes and one for people that homeschool for non-religious reasons (There is no difference that I can see) We put a check mark in the box "non-religious reasons"

 

[Captain Quinoa]

No, thank god.

parents' aren't too bright, eh?

Somewhere between average and above average I'd say. Certainly smarter than a few posters I could name. And way smarter than every person I ever met claiming they could teach their kids every subject through every grade and do it better than the public schools.

Amazing. I've met hundreds if home school families and not one claimed any of what you are saying. But of course every one you have met ( emphasis on the 'one') is the extreme outlier.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I would have been kicked out of my Catholic High School if I had done a project on evolution or the benefits of atheism.

Amazing how different Catholic schools can be. We learned evolution extensively in biology class as freshmen, and our HS religion classes were mostly focused on theology and world religions. You also mentioned going to mass weekly....we went once a month and on holy days.

 

[KCitons]

I would have been kicked out of my Catholic High School if I had done a project on evolution or the benefits of atheism.

Amazing how different Catholic schools can be. We learned evolution extensively in biology class as freshmen, and our HS religion classes were mostly focused on theology and world religions. You also mentioned going to mass weekly....we went once a month and on holy days.

High school was not weekly. But grade school was every week. Each grade (or combination of two grades), had a day assigned as your Mass day. If you were really unlucky, your Mass day could be Tuesday and a Holy Day like Friday would mean two Masses during the week. Throw in the two Sunday Masses and on a rare occasion, I did 4 masses in 8 days. I haven't been to 4 masses in the past 8 years.

Sixth grade, I was given detention for not singing in Mass. It's not wonder I rebelled.

 

[McGarnicle]

I was a child actor and had tutors most of the time. Attended an actual school for parts of the 6th and 8th grades, then 10th on. School was pretty much a nightmare because they all kept bugging me to do the voice.

 

[Riversco]

I was a child actor and had tutors most of the time. Attended an actual school for parts of the 6th and 8th grades, then 10th on. School was pretty much a nightmare because they all kept bugging me to do the voice.

What was it like dating Kunis?

 

[James Daulton]

Out of all the people groups in the U.S., I find it amazing that someone can find the energy to bash home school parents.

Because people are generally both ignorant and outspoken. Most people I know think of homeschooled kids as the neighborhood freaks who can't socialize with anyone. It's so far from the truth and people are generally ignorant about homeschooling but they have a ton of opinions about those that do it.

I think you also find the reverse a lot (just like in this thread). Folks who do home school often site poor public school performance as one of their primary motivations to home school. Those of us who choose public school naturally think we're making the correct choice. I've known a few (albeit not many) home school families and they all have chosen to do so for religious reasons. That's fine, but be up front and say that's the real reason, not because public schools suck. You can site stats that make public school students seem like they're not getting a good education, but I think we all know the reality is that if the student and parents are motivated and make education a priority, the student will have success in school. It's about the family first, school second.

That said, I still contend that if you take a motivated family and student, the education the student will receive in public schools is far superior to one they would receive were they home schooled simply due to the compartmentalized nature of the each subject. While not all teachers are great, to assert that some random set of parents know more about the subject the teacher is teaching is silly. This goes double for higher level math, science, and languages.

 

[proninja]

For those who choose to homeschool, how can you teach your children higher level math and science? My daughter is a high school freshman and taking Geometry. By the time she's done school, she'll have been through Calc 2, Physics, Chemistry, and will have 7 years of Spanish. I find it hard to believe that homeschooling can come anywhere near that type of rigorous intellectual curriculum.

With books, coops, and homeschool groups. For foreign language, add a radio and seeking out native speakers. A parent learning alongside the kid is a lot of effort for the parent, but it results in the kid learning the subject matter. My parents decided we were all going to learn Spanish as a family when I was 12. So we all learned Spanish, basically starting from scratch. We got textbooks, videos, audio books, started listening to the Spanish radio station, and even went to a Mexican church with the full service in Spanish for a while. My kid sister ended up being a Spanish major in college (which she started at 15 thanks to her nontraditional education) and later taught at a local HS. The Spanish department at her university was one of the toughest programs to get into. She was taught by parents who were learning at the same time she was.

We plan on having me go through Spanish and my wife go through French with our kids from a very young age. I was not a Spanish major, and I'll have to re-learn a lot right along with them, but to compare the experience I got learning a foreign language with what kids get in highschool, well, it isn't even close. I'm not sure why the answer to this question isn't obvious. The parents care enough to make sure their kids actually learn, not just are able to recite enough information to pass a standardized test. Especially in High School, where the student should be learning rhetorical skills to think for themselves and be able to actually apply the facts and the theories they've learned to their own ideas.

To answer your question, I'll learn a lot of it right alongside them. If I get out of my depth, I'll use some of the many resources that are available. For example, my wife is teaching a homeschool group music theory this fall to a bunch of kids who are homeschooled by parents who aren't musicians. She's a professional violinist. The kids will be in good hands.

 

[proninja]

Is this concerning?

There all of FIVE home schooled freshman were admitted to Princeton this year. That's out of some 1400, or a minuscule 0.0036%. There are only three home schoolers in Harvard's freshman class. Yale has only 2. Why?

Jeff Brenzel, Dean of Undergraduate Admissions at Yale, explains...

"We see only a few homeschooled applicants, and we do occasionally admit a homeschooled student. Evaluation is usually difficult, however. It helps if the applicant has taken some college level courses, and we can get evaluations from those teachers. We are not keen on homeschooled students where the only evaluations come from parents and the only other information available consists of test scores."

One school, one year?

No, not at all. By the time I was university age, I had 90 credits done at a local community college. Getting into the university I wanted wasn't an issue. I only applied to one, and I got in. Now granted, it wasn't Princeton or Yale, but if you've got smart kids and teach them well, they'll fly through school compared to kids at a high school, and then (in Washington) you can take advantage of the Running Start program to get them two years of free college. From there, they can transfer wherever they'd like.

 

[proninja]

Public school is the answer!:

43 percent of all U.S. high school students knew that the Civil War was fought some time between 1850 and 1900. (that's pretty good!)

More than a quarter of all U.S. high school students thought that Christopher Columbus made his famous voyage across the Atlantic Ocean after the year 1750 (brilliant!)

Approximately a third of all U.S. high school students did not know that the Bill of Rights guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of religion (who cares about them silly things!)

Only 60 percent of all U.S. students knew that World War I was fought some time between 1900 and 1950 (ahh! it's only the world, and there's cheerleading classes to go to.)

What is the supreme law of the land? 28 percent

What do we call the first ten amendments to the Constitution? 26 percent

What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress? 27 percent

How many justices are there on the Supreme Court? 10 percent

Who wrote the Declaration of Independence? 14 percent

What ocean is on the east coast of the United States? 61 percent

What are the two major political parties in the United States? 43 percent

We elect a U.S. senator for how many years? 11 percent

Who was the first President of the United States? 23 percent

Who is in charge of the executive branch? 29 percent

But you know what? If you add those percentages together, it's more than 100%. Our public school kids is educated.

This isn't helpful at all

 

[proninja]

While math and science aren't in every kids future, I think we'd all agree these are critical skills to compete today. I don't think home schooling can adequately prepare kids for this. Do home school parents use tutors or some other outside assistance?

If you don't think a motivated parent can figure out a way to get their kids a good education in areas in which they aren't experts, you underestimate people. You also clearly don't know a thing about homeschooling, so I would encourage you to shelve having an opinion until you've done some research. Your opinion is instantly clarified by the ignorance of the last sentence here.

That isn't an insult. You clearly don't know the first thing about homeschooling, which is fine. You've probably never had a reason to learn. So learn a couple things from the people in here who have had a reason to learn, and then develop an opinion and how to express it. Just like homeschool parents teach their kids to do. Ok?

 

[James Daulton]

For those who choose to homeschool, how can you teach your children higher level math and science? My daughter is a high school freshman and taking Geometry. By the time she's done school, she'll have been through Calc 2, Physics, Chemistry, and will have 7 years of Spanish. I find it hard to believe that homeschooling can come anywhere near that type of rigorous intellectual curriculum.

With books, coops, and homeschool groups. For foreign language, add a radio and seeking out native speakers. A parent learning alongside the kid is a lot of effort for the parent, but it results in the kid learning the subject matter. My parents decided we were all going to learn Spanish as a family when I was 12. So we all learned Spanish, basically starting from scratch. We got textbooks, videos, audio books, started listening to the Spanish radio station, and even went to a Mexican church with the full service in Spanish for a while. My kid sister ended up being a Spanish major in college (which she started at 15 thanks to her nontraditional education) and later taught at a local HS. The Spanish department at her university was one of the toughest programs to get into. She was taught by parents who were learning at the same time she was.

We plan on having me go through Spanish and my wife go through French with our kids from a very young age. I was not a Spanish major, and I'll have to re-learn a lot right along with them, but to compare the experience I got learning a foreign language with what kids get in highschool, well, it isn't even close. I'm not sure why the answer to this question isn't obvious. The parents care enough to make sure their kids actually learn, not just are able to recite enough information to pass a standardized test. Especially in High School, where the student should be learning rhetorical skills to think for themselves and be able to actually apply the facts and the theories they've learned to their own ideas.

To answer your question, I'll learn a lot of it right alongside them. If I get out of my depth, I'll use some of the many resources that are available. For example, my wife is teaching a homeschool group music theory this fall to a bunch of kids who are homeschooled by parents who aren't musicians. She's a professional violinist. The kids will be in good hands.

I don't know for sure of course, but I'd bet that your parents were the exception when it came to their dedication to learning Spanish. And I'm not trying to say that home schooling is not great, nor that students can't learn a lot. Obviously home schooled kids and parents are very motivated since it takes so much more of the parents time. And for elementary through middle school, the students educational exposure could easily match or exceed that of public school kids. However, to succeed in today's competitive job market, we all know that high level math and science are a great advantage (soon to become a necessity). I doubt you'd be able to "learn" calculus well enough to teach your children at the same level as a high school teacher.

 

[proninja]

For those who choose to homeschool, how can you teach your children higher level math and science? My daughter is a high school freshman and taking Geometry. By the time she's done school, she'll have been through Calc 2, Physics, Chemistry, and will have 7 years of Spanish. I find it hard to believe that homeschooling can come anywhere near that type of rigorous intellectual curriculum.

With books, coops, and homeschool groups. For foreign language, add a radio and seeking out native speakers. A parent learning alongside the kid is a lot of effort for the parent, but it results in the kid learning the subject matter. My parents decided we were all going to learn Spanish as a family when I was 12. So we all learned Spanish, basically starting from scratch. We got textbooks, videos, audio books, started listening to the Spanish radio station, and even went to a Mexican church with the full service in Spanish for a while. My kid sister ended up being a Spanish major in college (which she started at 15 thanks to her nontraditional education) and later taught at a local HS. The Spanish department at her university was one of the toughest programs to get into. She was taught by parents who were learning at the same time she was.

We plan on having me go through Spanish and my wife go through French with our kids from a very young age. I was not a Spanish major, and I'll have to re-learn a lot right along with them, but to compare the experience I got learning a foreign language with what kids get in highschool, well, it isn't even close. I'm not sure why the answer to this question isn't obvious. The parents care enough to make sure their kids actually learn, not just are able to recite enough information to pass a standardized test. Especially in High School, where the student should be learning rhetorical skills to think for themselves and be able to actually apply the facts and the theories they've learned to their own ideas.

To answer your question, I'll learn a lot of it right alongside them. If I get out of my depth, I'll use some of the many resources that are available. For example, my wife is teaching a homeschool group music theory this fall to a bunch of kids who are homeschooled by parents who aren't musicians. She's a professional violinist. The kids will be in good hands.

I don't know for sure of course, but I'd bet that your parents were the exception when it came to their dedication to learning Spanish. And I'm not trying to say that home schooling is not great, nor that students can't learn a lot. Obviously home schooled kids and parents are very motivated since it takes so much more of the parents time. And for elementary through middle school, the students educational exposure could easily match or exceed that of public school kids. However, to succeed in today's competitive job market, we all know that high level math and science are a great advantage (soon to become a necessity). I doubt you'd be able to "learn" calculus well enough to teach your children at the same level as a high school teacher.

You have no idea what I know, how well I can learn, or how well I can teach. For you to have an opinion one way or another on how capable I will be of teaching my kids any particular subject is crazy.

You're talking out of your ### saying things you don't know anything about in order to prove a side of an argument you chose without knowing anything. Step back. Try again. You're doing it wrong.

 

[James Daulton]

While math and science aren't in every kids future, I think we'd all agree these are critical skills to compete today. I don't think home schooling can adequately prepare kids for this. Do home school parents use tutors or some other outside assistance?

If you don't think a motivated parent can figure out a way to get their kids a good education in areas in which they aren't experts, you underestimate people. You also clearly don't know a thing about homeschooling, so I would encourage you to shelve having an opinion until you've done some research. Your opinion is instantly clarified by the ignorance of the last sentence here.

That isn't an insult. You clearly don't know the first thing about homeschooling, which is fine. You've probably never had a reason to learn. So learn a couple things from the people in here who have had a reason to learn, and then develop an opinion and how to express it. Just like homeschool parents teach their kids to do. Ok?

Well by all means, don't educate me, scold me. That how they teach debate in homeschooling?

 

[proninja]

While math and science aren't in every kids future, I think we'd all agree these are critical skills to compete today. I don't think home schooling can adequately prepare kids for this. Do home school parents use tutors or some other outside assistance?

If you don't think a motivated parent can figure out a way to get their kids a good education in areas in which they aren't experts, you underestimate people. You also clearly don't know a thing about homeschooling, so I would encourage you to shelve having an opinion until you've done some research. Your opinion is instantly clarified by the ignorance of the last sentence here.

That isn't an insult. You clearly don't know the first thing about homeschooling, which is fine. You've probably never had a reason to learn. So learn a couple things from the people in here who have had a reason to learn, and then develop an opinion and how to express it. Just like homeschool parents teach their kids to do. Ok?

Well by all means, don't educate me, scold me. That how they teach debate in homeschooling?

I was attempting to educate you. I'm sorry you were offended by my directness.

And, however I do teach debate and rhetorical skills, it won't be "don't read anything, don't learn anything, but be sure to have an opinion!" like you are modeling in here for us today.

Again, step back, learn something, then have an opinion. I'm not trying to offend you, I'm simply pointing out where you're falling short.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I wonder how much this thread is skewed by upper five percenters relaying their experiences as if it is representative of anything? Are most home schoolers those with FBG incomes and thus resources? I doubt it, so I'm not so sure that we are getting a very accurate picture of home schooling as a whole. That being said I would suspect that the vast majority of home school kids are solidly middle class.

 

[KCitons]

For those who choose to homeschool, how can you teach your children higher level math and science? My daughter is a high school freshman and taking Geometry. By the time she's done school, she'll have been through Calc 2, Physics, Chemistry, and will have 7 years of Spanish. I find it hard to believe that homeschooling can come anywhere near that type of rigorous intellectual curriculum.

With books, coops, and homeschool groups. For foreign language, add a radio and seeking out native speakers. A parent learning alongside the kid is a lot of effort for the parent, but it results in the kid learning the subject matter. My parents decided we were all going to learn Spanish as a family when I was 12. So we all learned Spanish, basically starting from scratch. We got textbooks, videos, audio books, started listening to the Spanish radio station, and even went to a Mexican church with the full service in Spanish for a while. My kid sister ended up being a Spanish major in college (which she started at 15 thanks to her nontraditional education) and later taught at a local HS. The Spanish department at her university was one of the toughest programs to get into. She was taught by parents who were learning at the same time she was.

We plan on having me go through Spanish and my wife go through French with our kids from a very young age. I was not a Spanish major, and I'll have to re-learn a lot right along with them, but to compare the experience I got learning a foreign language with what kids get in highschool, well, it isn't even close. I'm not sure why the answer to this question isn't obvious. The parents care enough to make sure their kids actually learn, not just are able to recite enough information to pass a standardized test. Especially in High School, where the student should be learning rhetorical skills to think for themselves and be able to actually apply the facts and the theories they've learned to their own ideas.

To answer your question, I'll learn a lot of it right alongside them. If I get out of my depth, I'll use some of the many resources that are available. For example, my wife is teaching a homeschool group music theory this fall to a bunch of kids who are homeschooled by parents who aren't musicians. She's a professional violinist. The kids will be in good hands.

I don't know for sure of course, but I'd bet that your parents were the exception when it came to their dedication to learning Spanish. And I'm not trying to say that home schooling is not great, nor that students can't learn a lot. Obviously home schooled kids and parents are very motivated since it takes so much more of the parents time. And for elementary through middle school, the students educational exposure could easily match or exceed that of public school kids. However, to succeed in today's competitive job market, we all know that high level math and science are a great advantage (soon to become a necessity). I doubt you'd be able to "learn" calculus well enough to teach your children at the same level as a high school teacher.

The final straw for us was when my twin boys brought home a sheet of paper that had a short story of about 150 words. They were to learn read this story every evening until they could recite it word for word. When we had a meeting with their teacher, it was explained to us that both boys were behind on their reading ability. In order to move on to the 3rd grade, they had to be able to read 100 words per minute. Which they accomplished after a couple of weeks of practicing on this one short story. When given a different story, of course they had difficulty maintaining this pace.

I questioned the validity of this method and received the response "you don't want them held back a year do you?" This proved to me that my kids were being left behind.

I wonder how much this thread is skewed by upper five percenters relaying their experiences as if it is representative of anything? Are most home schoolers those with FBG incomes and thus resources? I doubt it, so I'm not so sure that we are getting a very accurate picture of home schooling as a whole. That being said I would suspect that the vast majority of home school kids are solidly middle class.

Agreed. No home school parent is going to jump on here and say. "I ignore my kids education, He can barely read and doesn't know what 2+2 is"

By the same token, do all parents really understand how well their kids are doing in School? Beyond the quarterly report card, or parent/teacher conference?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

While math and science aren't in every kids future, I think we'd all agree these are critical skills to compete today. I don't think home schooling can adequately prepare kids for this. Do home school parents use tutors or some other outside assistance?

If you don't think a motivated parent can figure out a way to get their kids a good education in areas in which they aren't experts, you underestimate people. You also clearly don't know a thing about homeschooling, so I would encourage you to shelve having an opinion until you've done some research. Your opinion is instantly clarified by the ignorance of the last sentence here.

That isn't an insult. You clearly don't know the first thing about homeschooling, which is fine. You've probably never had a reason to learn. So learn a couple things from the people in here who have had a reason to learn, and then develop an opinion and how to express it. Just like homeschool parents teach their kids to do. Ok?

Well by all means, don't educate me, scold me. That how they teach debate in homeschooling?

He's been educating you throughout this thread. But you don't seem to be listening because you've already formed your strong opinions without any knowledge of the subject you are so sure about.

 

[gsmayes]

In the dinosaur races my grand-pappy rode a purebred Dromiceiomimus, won 19 straight races I hear!

 

[KCitons]

In the dinosaur races my grand-pappy rode a purebred Dromiceiomimus, won 19 straight races I hear!

Homeschooled or Public Schooled post?

 

[johnnycakes]

Any home schoolers into unschooling?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHHMQkyjnY0

 

[proninja]

I wonder how much this thread is skewed by upper five percenters relaying their experiences as if it is representative of anything? Are most home schoolers those with FBG incomes and thus resources? I doubt it, so I'm not so sure that we are getting a very accurate picture of home schooling as a whole. That being said I would suspect that the vast majority of home school kids are solidly middle class.

I would agree with that. Most homeschool families I have been exposed to are solidly middle class. Also, the parents are generally not only intelligent, but well educated and curious. They're willing to do something hard and learn a lot alongside their kids. People who don't think they can do a better job than the public school system shouldn't homeschool. If guys like James Daulton don't think that it's within their capacity to learn hard sciences and math alongside their kid while they teach, then they shouldn't do it.

If, however, you do have that capacity and you're willing to put the work in, you'll probably get a kid with a top 5 percent or so education. Because the system is better. One teacher who loves the student, is always with them, and can teach at any time.

 

[proninja]

Any home schoolers into unschooling?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHHMQkyjnY0

Not at all. Refusing to educate your kids is the opposite of what homeschooling is about. Unschooling isn't homeschooling because homeschooling is actually schooling.

 

[KCitons]

Any home schoolers into unschooling?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHHMQkyjnY0

No, we looked at a form of this for my daughter early on in the homeschooling process. As the video mentions, this is not new. We first researched it about 6 years ago.

Ultimately we found that my daughter had plenty of time to complete her assignments in Math, Science, and some English, while using a more lenient curriculum when it comes to History and the literature part of English. Ask most school kids what was the best part of their year, most will say the field trip. Take this same principle and expand on it. Are you learning about the Civil War? Add in a visit to Gettysburg, PA. Learning about the Lewis and Clark Trail? Schedule a visit to a Lewis and Clark exhibition. With the coverage of the 50th anniversary of King's speech in DC this week, we were able to discuss what it would have been like to attend. Not just the message, but because we spent 3 days in DC this past May.

Most of the stuff in textbooks got there because someone lived it. Let your kids live it and they will retain what they've learned.

 

[cstu]

I believe a kid's education depends on the support they receive at home.

Aren't home school parents just taking this a step farther?

Kind of. If the child is in public/private school, then the parent is supporting whatever path the school board, school and teacher has set forth.

In contrast, the home school parents will be the ones to choose the path.

The one thing that I find disturbing about homeschooling is the different regulations from state to state. Some states have very lenient rules on curriculum, testing, and parent qualifications. While others require rigid testing and submitted documentation of progress. I would think with something as important as education, there would be a minimum standard across the board.

Regardless of the path there are still basics that kids need to learn. How about using all the time and energy you would spend on homeschooling to instead supplement your kids education in public school?

That would be an option. But why have the kid sit in school for 8 hours a day, only to come home and spend more time working on school?

Since you brought it up, what would you consider basic skills that need to be learned? I know from my schooling that I was never taught how to balance a budget, I was never taught about the effects of credit card interest. I was given sex education, but since it was held in a Catholic school environment, some important things were left out. One thing that I have tried to do from day one is incorporate what my kids learn into everyday life. Education should serve a purpose. If it doesn't, then it's just worthless trivia.

In the case of our kids, we were dealing two different ends of the spectrum. My daughter was very board with public school by the 4th grade, while my twin sons were having difficulty reaching the minimum level of reading for 2nd graders. None of our kids were getting what they needed out of the school system. After a couple of meetings with teachers, we did spend a lot of time supplementing their schoolwork. It didn't take long to realized the extra time was taxing on the kids.

I went to private Catholic schools from K-12. I often wondered what kids in public schools were doing while I was going to mass once a week or taking an Old Testament class. The state of Nebraska has a minimum hours requirement, along with a basic subject requirement. While people bash public schools, are they getting an extra hour of math or science, while I'm spending an hour in a Church?

The typical elementary curriculum is math, science, english, music, art and later, foreign language. I don't know what Catholic schools cut out to make time for Bible class.

You bring up a good point about what they don't learn, such as finance, but that is stuff I'm fine teaching my daughter. It's the stuff like basic math and english that I'd rather someone who enjoys teaching that to teach.

I do understand how it can be taxing on the kids. Maybe I'm being too optimistic since my 4 yo already has an extremely demanding schedule due to her therapies (autism spectrum).

 

[James Daulton]

I wonder how much this thread is skewed by upper five percenters relaying their experiences as if it is representative of anything? Are most home schoolers those with FBG incomes and thus resources? I doubt it, so I'm not so sure that we are getting a very accurate picture of home schooling as a whole. That being said I would suspect that the vast majority of home school kids are solidly middle class.

I would agree with that. Most homeschool families I have been exposed to are solidly middle class.Also, the parents are generally not only intelligent, but well educated and curious. They're willing to do something hard and learn a lot alongside their kids. People who don't think they can do a better job than the public school system shouldn't homeschool. If guys like James Daulton don't think that it's within their capacity to learn hard sciences and math alongside their kid while they teach, then they shouldn't do it.

If, however, you do have that capacity and you're willing to put the work in, you'll probably get a kid with a top 5 percent or so education. Because the system is better. One teacher who loves the student, is always with them, and can teach at any time.

Here again, you're assuming that the system is better. I submit that you take the same dedicated parents and kids who home schooled, put them in a public school with an advanced curriculum and dedicated teachers, and the public school education will be more rounded due to the specific expertise of the teachers. Anyway, good luck to all the home schoolers. I want the USA to produce educated kids (no matter how) who will help propel our country into the future.

 

[johnnycakes]

I give all the kudos in the world to those who can successfully home school. You're all doing something I could never do in a million years.

 

[proninja]

I wonder how much this thread is skewed by upper five percenters relaying their experiences as if it is representative of anything? Are most home schoolers those with FBG incomes and thus resources? I doubt, so I'm not so sure that we are getting a very accurate picture of home schooling as a whole. That being said I would suspect that the vast majority of home school kids are solidly middle class.

I would agree with that. Most homeschool families I have been exposed to are solidly middle class.Also, the parents are generally not only intelligent, but well educated and curious. They're willing to do something hard and learn a lot alongside their kids. People who don't think they can do a better job than the public school system shouldn't homeschool. If guys like James Daulton don't think that it's within their capacity to learn hard sciences and math alongside their kid while they teach, then they shouldn't do it.

If, however, you do have that capacity and you're willing to put the work in, you'll probably get a kid with a top 5 percent or so education. Because the system is better. One teacher who loves the student, is always with them, and can teach at any time.

Here again, you're assuming that the system is better. I submit that you take the same dedicated parents and kids who home schooled, put them in a public school with an advanced curriculum and dedicated teachers, and the public school education will be more rounded due to the specific expertise of the teachers. Anyway, good luck to all the home schoolers. I want the USA to produce educated kids (no matter how) who will help propel our country into the future.

In what way is the system worse? Student teacher ratio is much better

The teacher spends much more time with the student.

The teacher is much more invested in the student

The

I don't know how many advanced degrees you think you need to teach high school chemistry, but the only advantage the public school system has is specialized teachers who are very knowledgeable in certain subjects a parent may be weak in. But there are many resources to find that very thing in the homeschool world. My wife is a professional violinist who is teaching music to a group of home schoolers this fall.

You don't know much about homeschooling so I understand why you're biased toward the only system you know, but that system just isn't the best. In theory, in results, in anything. And it's barely arguable. That's nothing against the public school system, they'll never be able to educate as well as a smart, committed parent. They get the kids for an hour per day for one subject, and their attention is divided 30 ways. Dealing with that, I think they do an amazing job. I just think my wife and I can do better. If you don't, then don't homeschool. Get your kid the best education possible, regardless of what that looks like.

 

[stbugs]

This is a pretty silly debate. First of all, trying to compare home schoolers to the average kid in the US is probably a bad sample. I am assuming parents who home school care about their kids, well there is a sizable segment of kids in public school that don't fit into that segment (unfortunately). Well, do you think those kids are the ones that score well or drag the average down?

I don't have a problem with home schooling, but my wife and I both went to college and now that all our kids are school age, my wife has been working full time for the past year. We don't have time while working to do a full school curriculum. We did, however, think about where we wanted to live and picked one with strong schools. The high school and middle school our kids will attend (oldest is in middle school now) are ranked top 10 in all of the counties in the Charlotte area. Our high school is across the street from our community and has a >95% graduation rate.

My oldest is taking Chinese for his second year in 7th grade and while I am sure I could handle some of the other teaching (I went to a top 10 college), his teachers have been very good and I think he is getting a better education than we could give him at home, nevermind the fact that my wife and I couldn't dedicate the time.

That said, I have no issues with people home schooling if they have the time to dedicate and their schools aren't great. There is no reason for this debate to be so snarky because there are good reasons for both and more importantly, the biggest difference in kids doing well is parental involvment, home schooled or not. If the parents care, I am pretty sure the kids are doing well in either case.

 

[Steve Tasker]

If the parents care, I am pretty sure the kids are doing well in either case.

this is what it comes down to.

 

[James Daulton]

I wonder how much this thread is skewed by upper five percenters relaying their experiences as if it is representative of anything? Are most home schoolers those with FBG incomes and thus resources? I doubt, so I'm not so sure that we are getting a very accurate picture of home schooling as a whole. That being said I would suspect that the vast majority of home school kids are solidly middle class.

I would agree with that. Most homeschool families I have been exposed to are solidly middle class.Also, the parents are generally not only intelligent, but well educated and curious. They're willing to do something hard and learn a lot alongside their kids. People who don't think they can do a better job than the public school system shouldn't homeschool. If guys like James Daulton don't think that it's within their capacity to learn hard sciences and math alongside their kid while they teach, then they shouldn't do it.

If, however, you do have that capacity and you're willing to put the work in, you'll probably get a kid with a top 5 percent or so education. Because the system is better. One teacher who loves the student, is always with them, and can teach at any time.

Here again, you're assuming that the system is better. I submit that you take the same dedicated parents and kids who home schooled, put them in a public school with an advanced curriculum and dedicated teachers, and the public school education will be more rounded due to the specific expertise of the teachers. Anyway, good luck to all the home schoolers. I want the USA to produce educated kids (no matter how) who will help propel our country into the future.

In what way is the system worse?Student teacher ratio is much better

The teacher spends much more time with the student.

The teacher is much more invested in the student

The

I don't know how many advanced degrees you think you need to teach high school chemistry, but the only advantage the public school system has is specialized teachers who are very knowledgeable in certain subjects a parent may be weak in. But there are many resources to find that very thing in the homeschool world. My wife is a professional violinist who is teaching music to a group of home schoolers this fall.

You don't know much about homeschooling so I understand why you're biased toward the only system you know, but that system just isn't the best. In theory, in results, in anything. And it's barely arguable. That's nothing against the public school system, they'll never be able to educate as well as a smart, committed parent. They get the kids for an hour per day for one subject, and their attention is divided 30 ways. Dealing with that, I think they do an amazing job. I just think my wife and I can do better. If you don't, then don't homeschool. Get your kid the best education possible, regardless of what that looks like.

I don't want or need to get in a pissing match with you. I only reacted to those who inferred that home schooling is always better than public schools. How well do you know what goes on in public schools? Do you have a kid in public schools? Have you been in public schools in the last 20 years? Are you familiar with the curriculum of top classes? Are you familiar with the qualifications of the teachers? You think home schooling is great. Good for you. If it produces kids that help the US, then count me as a supporter. Don't however make the blanket statement that home schooling is this panacea that trumps all public schools, parents, and kids.

 

[proninja]

I don't want or need to get in a pissing match with you. I only reacted to those who inferred that home schooling is always better than public schools. How well do you know what goes on in public schools? Do you have a kid in public schools? Have you been in public schools in the last 20 years? Are you familiar with the curriculum of top classes? Are you familiar with the qualifications of the teachers? You think home schooling is great. Good for you. If it produces kids that help the US, then count me as a supporter. Don't however make the blanket statement that home schooling is this panacea that trumps all public schools, parents, and kids.

You're, again, arguing against something you don't understand.

I've mentioned a few times that there are many situations in which public school is much better than homeschooling. When the parents don't want to, if both parents work, or if the parents feel unable are three I have brought up in this thread. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that you only reacted to people who inferred that home schooling is always better than public schools. Nobody said that. That's not what you did.

You demonstrated a lack of knowledge to the subject matter, have taken a position, and now you're saying that you did something entirely different from what you actually did. I don't want or need to get into a pissing contest with you, but when you infer that I'm making a blanket statement that homeschooling is a blanket panacea that trumps everything, when that's not even close to what I'm saying, I feel the need to clarify to those who are paying attention.

Here's why I'm in the thread:

No, thank god.

If you want to teach your kids that men rode the dinosaurs, then obviously that post sucked great big donkey balls!

ctsu posted something that was pretty nasty and offensive. He deleted it, because he's better than that. We all make mistakes.

You've been making awful assumptions and saying things that are just flat wrong this whole thread. Let's not pretend that you're just defending the poor public school against the onslaught of homeschool advocates talking about how horrible they are. You're the one making assumptions about the efficacy of homeschooling when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I'm trying to correct your misconceptions, and you've gotten snippy. I suppose I have too, and I shouldn't, but see what I said about ctsu. We all make mistakes.

Nobody's trying to force you to homeschool. Nobody thinks you should. You yourself don't think you're able. But it would be nice if we could get through a thread without ignorant people insinuating that it's an inferior education based on their own ill-informed assumptions. Could you do your best to not be a part of the problem the next time we do this thread?

 

[johnnycakes]

As a matter of fact, I don't think I could even unschool my children effectively. I mean, I'm the guy who hires the hard-### drill instructor nanny to take over after school because the kid's such a piece of work. I'm just hoping he'll be able to support himself one day. Seriously.

 

[cstu]

Why I Don’t Want My Kids “Socialized” in Public School

Date: July 10, 2013

Probably the first and most popular “complaint” that homeschooling parents hear is “What about socialization?”

Now that my oldest is 5 and would be going into kindergarten this fall, people I meet have started to ask: “Is she going to school? Where is she going?” And then I answer, “We’re homeschooling…I’m not sure what school she would have gone to.” (In my city there are many districts and many schools within each. I really have no clue.) Then I feel like that parent. Oh, those weird homeschoolers who think they are better than others.

Totally not true. Everyone chooses the type of schooling that works for their family. This post isn’t about why homeschooling is a better choice (except, for us. It’s totally better for us). This post is why the socialization myth is one I absolutely have to bust. It’s totally wrong that my homeschooled kids don’t socialize; there are lots of ways to accomplish that. And I don’t want my kids to be socialized in a public school anyway.

I went to public school myself, K-12. I know what it is like there. I know that the kids can be curious about other ways. I know for the first 3 – 4 years they overlook familial differences and don’t form any sort of “social classes” and they’re generally pretty inclusive.

But then, it changes. Somewhere around the 4th grade, they start to figure it out. Some people are “better” than others. Some people are “weird.” And weird is bad. You can’t stand out. Differences are not appreciated, especially if they are of the slow, nerdy, ‘strange’ (think, dresses in all black/enjoys reading encyclopedias for fun/would rather hang out with the lunch lady than the other kids) variety.

There is no way to avoid this. Kids are naturally curious about what makes them different from others. They are beginning to pick up on the attitudes of the adults around them, including their parents. I don’t know a single adult who, in private, is 100% non-judgmental and inclusive. And even if they are, there’s that little thing called peer pressure.

So many people grow up to hate those who tormented them in school. Some never outgrow wanting to “show the bully” how successful they are, how they rose above the poor treatment they received. There are entire books, movies, and TV shows dedicated to these issues.

Look at the wildly popular show, The Big Bang Theory. How often do the characters on that show discuss how they wish their bullies could see them today, how nerds “really” run the world, and how the character Penny (who is of average intelligence and is considered beautiful, and was very popular in high school) used to be a bully and the fully grown Bernadette and Amy characters, both of whom have Ph.D.s and successful adult lives are “lucky” just to be her friend?

It’s not just fodder for TV. It’s a reflection of the real world, in this case. Schools are cracking down on bullying, working under a so-called “zero tolerance” policy (that is an issue for another day…). Young boys and girls are committing suicide over teasing and torturing they receive in school because they are too stupid, too smart, too fat, too poor, too rich, too…something.

Having been on the receiving end of it the majority of my school years, I know what it’s like. I know the feeling of being on the “outside” and wishing to fit, wondering why I didn’t, wondering how I should or could change. I wish now I could go back 15 years and tell myself it doesn’t matter, that they don’t set the standard for what is good or right, and that there are many ways to be that are perfectly good and fine, even if they’re not common. But this isn’t about me.

Setting Standards By Peer Demands

I do not want my children to pick up on “the way the world works” when they are still young and fragile. I do not want them to think there is something wrong with them because we make different choices in religion, food, medicine, and so on. They are fully well aware that we do make different choices — I am very honest with them that most other families vaccinate because they believe it is best for them, that they eat processed food because they don’t know it is not healthy, that their babies are born in hospitals, and so on. They know that what we do is not that common outside our circle of friends (where most are a lot like us).

It’s not about hiding the world from them. It’s not about pretending “all that other stuff” doesn’t exist. That’s foolish, because someday they will realize and they will wonder, unless you tell them.

What it is about is letting us set the standards for them. Letting us teach them what is right and what is wrong. Letting us allow them to be who they are and grow confident in it. It’s about keeping them away from this ridiculous peer pressure and impossible peer standards at a time when their identities are still forming.

It does not bother me now if someone thinks I am weird for canning food or not vaccinating. I feel confident I’ve made the right choice for my family and I know that I don’t have to live to others’ standards. Because I am an adult. Kids just don’t have those solid convictions yet. They can’t until they reach a certain age and learn to think abstractly and form their own sense of identity. I want to help them realize whoever they are is okay, and help them figure out what that is, without the input of their peers. They don’t need that sort of nonsense.

Maybe part of this is in reaction to what I experienced as a kid, but as I’ve noted, it’s only too real today — bullying is a huge topic in society. The problem hasn’t gone away. If I can save my kids from that, I will.

Living in the “Real World”

My kids still live in the real world, and so do I.

I let them know that others will disagree with us. I let them know that others have different ways of thinking. I purposely tell them about ways people are different. ”Did you know some Mommies work during the day and someone else cares for their kids? Did you know sometimes Daddies do all the grocery shopping and cooking? Did you know some Mommies have their babies cut out of their tummies? Did you know some babies are fed with bottles? Did you know most kids go to school in a building with other kids?”

They know these things. And people talk to them about these things. These things are depicted in books we read and shows we watch.

The difference is, they think of these things as abstract. Stuff other people do. Like we do things our way. They don’t think of it as a judgment on what we do, and they don’t think of what we do as a judgment on others’ choices. We co-exist peacefully.

And yeah, they’re socialized. They’re not shy at all (I tend to be) and they love to run up to people they meet and introduce themselves and start a conversation. It does not matter to them if the person they meet is old, young, fat, thin, black, white, etc. They are equally interested in all people. They don’t care about differences. They’re not going to be taught that one person is better or worse than another, because I’m not going to teach them that, and they’re not going to be in school to learn it the hard way.

The other day we went to the playground. A woman stopped walking and turned off her music device to talk to all of us. The kids introduced themselves and Nathan and talked to her for awhile, then she left. Another woman and her two kids came along awhile later. They introduced themselves to her, and started talking to the kids. When the little boy (2) ran his tricycle into the playground and got it stuck on the ledge, my kids rushed to help him.

When the mail man drives by our house, my daughter begs to go outside and talk to him.

When we go to a playground or to the zoo or any other larger gathering of people, my daughter will pick up the baby and go introduce him and herself to a random stranger, then ask the stranger to hold Nathan for awhile, because she is so proud he is her brother and wants to share him.

When we visited my husband’s office, my oldest son offered to shake hands with every adult he met as he introduced himself (we didn’t teach him to do that, either — he’s picked up on it from observation).

My 22-month-old waves to people as we take walks. If someone he doesn’t know should pick him up, he just smiles.

The kids run across people of all ages, races, religions, genders, and more every single day. We also get together with friends fairly often and they have plenty of semi-supervised peer-to-peer time. (What I mean by “semi-supervised” is like us moms sit on benches at the edge of the playground and chat. We can see them, but we’re not micromanaging their interactions.)

They’ll grow up just fine, with a pretty good idea about what you might find in the world. What they won’t grow up with is doubting if they are good enough. Wondering if their peers are right, after all, and they’re too weird. Wondering if making choices outside the mainstream really is “wrong.” That’s the way I want it. When they come across that first “bully” who would tell them they are too weird to fit in, I want them to laugh and say “There’s nothing wrong with me. We’re just different people. How do you know you’re just not cool enough to hang out with me?”

How do you feel about this sort of “socialization?” If you are sending your kids to public school, how are you combating the bullying issue?

 

[johnnycakes]

I was raised by a toothless, bearded hag,
I was schooled with a strap right across my back

 

[NCCommish]

No, thank god.

parents' aren't too bright, eh?

Somewhere between average and above average I'd say. Certainly smarter than a few posters I could name. And way smarter than every person I ever met claiming they could teach their kids every subject through every grade and do it better than the public schools.

Amazing. I've met hundreds if home school families and not one claimed any of what you are saying. But of course every one you have met ( emphasis on the 'one') is the extreme outlier.

Yeah I've met more than one. Go ahead and pretend most of the home schoolers are not fundies who don't tech their children anything remotely like what they'll need to be productive.

Oh and when you decide to teach your child at home you are certainly saying I can teach every subject through every grade to my child.

 

[The Duff Man]

I thought only nuts would do this, but after reading the thread I can see a lot of benefit.

Neither my wife nor I would make a good teacher though

 

[Steve Tasker]

I do not want my children to pick up on “the way the world works” when they are still young and fragile. I do not want them to think there is something wrong with them because we make different choices in religion, food, medicine, and so on. They are fully well aware that we do make different choices — I am very honest with them that most other families vaccinate because they believe it is best for them, that they eat processed food because they don’t know it is not healthy, that their babies are born in hospitals, and so on. They know that what we do is not that common outside our circle of friends (where most are a lot like us).

I immediately stopped reading at this.

 

[cstu]

I do not want my children to pick up on “the way the world works” when they are still young and fragile. I do not want them to think there is something wrong with them because we make different choices in religion, food, medicine, and so on. They are fully well aware that we do make different choices — I am very honest with them that most other families vaccinate because they believe it is best for them, that they eat processed food because they don’t know it is not healthy, that their babies are born in hospitals, and so on. They know that what we do is not that common outside our circle of friends (where most are a lot like us).

I immediately stopped reading at this.

Oof, I missed the vaccination part.

 

[cstu]

I thought only nuts would do this, but after reading the thread I can see a lot of benefit.

Neither my wife nor I would make a good teacher though

A neighbor who was a chemist told me a story about trying to teach her daughter math who was barely passing it in school. Her daughter wasn't understanding what she was trying to teach her after a long time and she finally said "What, are you stupid?". At that point she realized she wasn't a good teacher and put her in the best private schools she could find.

 

[grateful zed]

Just wondering.

nice poll, you got a lot more votes than my no shampoo thread.

 

[James Daulton]

No, thank god.

parents' aren't too bright, eh?

Somewhere between average and above average I'd say. Certainly smarter than a few posters I could name. And way smarter than every person I ever met claiming they could teach their kids every subject through every grade and do it better than the public schools.

Amazing. I've met hundreds if home school families and not one claimed any of what you are saying. But of course every one you have met ( emphasis on the 'one') is the extreme outlier.

Yeah I've met more than one. Go ahead and pretend most of the home schoolers are not fundies who don't tech their children anything remotely like what they'll need to be productive.

Oh and when you decide to teach your child at home you are certainly saying I can teach every subject through every grade to my child.

Oh you're going to get made fun of. Clearly you're not aware of the vast home school network where advanced math and science is taught to a level that meets and exceeds those unqualified high school teachers. Home schooling is all about getting your child the best education you know.