What does the confederate flag mean to you? (5 Viewers)

[joffer]

So that's why to me, banning the show is just comical and absurd.

How was it banned?

Forget it, he's rolling...

 

[renesauz]

I grew up in authentic redneck coal mining country (western PA). Moved to the west coast when I was 10. Its a different world. I haven't been back there in 25 years. Well, just spent a week in my old hometown. Its still the same world in many ways. I saw plenty of confederate flags, and one night I saw so many I couldn't count them. That was at the racetrack.

My wife couldn't seem to grasp that there were so many at the track. For her the confederate flag has one meaning, and that's institutionalized bigotry. Making it worse we're in a northern state. Why would so many people in the north being wanting to sport a confederate flag? I get it to a small degree. The confederate flag represents an old traditional feeling that doesn't have anything to do with race. We had them around when I was a kid and we didn't have any black folk around. When I say none, I mean NONE. There was no diversity in the small town I grew up in. 100% white anglo saxon protestant. No exceptions. This said, I think they're silly. There may be some folks clinging to some sense of good-ole-times, but the confederate flag is a symbol of institutionalized bigotry IMO.

At the racetrack last Saturday night I lost count of the bumper stickers, t-shirts, and random confederate flags all over the place. Dissappointing in some ways. Not sure how to react to all of them. I just tried to ignore it as much as I could. This said, I think the vast majority of people there didn't embrace it. Not sure. Just a hunch. Its not like I could read their minds. Perhaps just wishful thinking on my part.

Planning on hitting the races in two weeks back here in WA state. Miss my 410 sprint car action. Wondering how many of those flags I'll see here. Hoping not near as many.

Obviously these people aren't thinking the flag = "slavery" or "segregation" or "institutionalized bigotry" or "the South will rise again".

Anyone that's still flying that flag after all the controversy of the past few weeks is doing so with full knowledge of what it means to most black people and to the vast majority of Americans. Regardless of what their culture led them to believe it stood for, or even what it might still stand for to them, they now know what it really means to the outside world. And when you fly a flag you are, by definition, projecting something about yourself to that outside world, the one that interprets the flag as advocacy of those things you claim those who fly it are not thinking.

The defense of ignorance was always flimsy, but after the last month it's totally gone. Fly it all you want, but don't whine about people thinking you're a racist POS for doing so when you knew that's exactly what people will think when you made the decision to do it.

Simply not true.

"The poll shows that 57% of Americans see the flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism, about the same as in 2000 when 59% said they viewed it as a symbol of pride."

Personally....if 43% think it stands for something other than Southern pride, than there is no argument to make. 43% is an astoundingly HIGH number. If more than 4 out of ten people think something is a symbol of racism, and you continue to fly it, you're either incredibly stubborn and ignorant, or truly racist and don't care.

 

[renesauz]

I could be wrong, but I think a lot of folks fly the flag as a symbol of counter-culture - the anti-PC crowd. some people deeply resent being told what to do/say/think by the media or the government. I know this thought is prevailant in the rural South, I know it is in the rural West, and I presume it is in the rural North as well.

They don't see it as a symbol or racism...it's more of a symbol of the right to do/be/say/think what ever you want, including (but not limited to) racism.

There was some poster in this thread previously from Wisconsin (I think) who was bragging about flying his flag. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he wanted to do so not because he hates black people, but because he hates the "Social Justice Warriors" suddenly determining that the flag had to go.

Great point, and probably more than a little accurate. Those people are still being silly though. We all hate how PC our world has become, but there are still times to take a step back and consider others. Too much PC is definitely a bad thing, but no PC at all is much MUCH worse.

 

[tdoss]

Our new (Confederate) Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens

So having a t-shirt or a hat or the flag (symbol) or something means you have to believe everything about that group or culture? Can I wear a star of David and not be Jewish? Can I fly (or even own) a flag with a crescent moon and a single star and not be Islamic? Up until yesterday I drove a Mini Cooper and put a Union Jack symbol on it (to show the car's heritage), but I'm not British and the car itself was made in Germany.

Looking at your avatar, do you believe in everything that the Dark Side stands for, and thus against the Jedi?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/07/jay-z-five-percent-nation_n_5107180.html

 

[Buckfast 1]

I drove from Birmingham, AL to Albertville, AL today and saw at least a dozen trucks (as well as a couple 4-wheelers) flying big confederate flags. Hell, I even saw a Volkswagen Beetle flying a confederate flag in Gadsden, AL. It seemed like a lot of Alabamans are going out of their way to let people know that they will have to pry the confederate flag out of their cold, dead, redneck hands.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

I drove from Birmingham, AL to Albertville, AL today and saw at least a dozen trucks (as well as a couple 4-wheelers) flying big confederate flags. Hell, I even saw a Volkswagen Beetle flying a confederate flag in Gadsden, AL. It seemed like a lot of Alabamans are going out of their way to let people know that they will have to pry the confederate flag out of their cold, dead, redneck hands.

Rednecks have been in here for ages and now the word is out. They cannot be stopped by internet jiberjaber.

 

[msommer]

Our new (Confederate) Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens

Did he drive to the speech in a hondacarriage?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Our new (Confederate) Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens

Did he drive to the speech in a hondacarriage?

He will be as many times as it takes for people to avoid the historical rewrite by the political right.

 

[Poncho]

Not from the south or have ever lived there. Always assumed it was a "southern pride" thing, or people that listened to southern rock when I was in h.s...

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I drove from Birmingham, AL to Albertville, AL today and saw at least a dozen trucks (as well as a couple 4-wheelers) flying big confederate flags. Hell, I even saw a Volkswagen Beetle flying a confederate flag in Gadsden, AL. It seemed like a lot of Alabamans are going out of their way to let people know that they will have to pry the confederate flag out of their cold, dead, redneck hands.

hows that saying go? The more you tell me not to do something .....

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Not from the south or have ever lived there. Always assumed it was a "southern pride" thing, or people that listened to southern rock when I was in h.s...

how old are you?

 

[Underachievers]

Still protesting a piece of cloth in here I see. Give it up guys, the flag will always be around and you will just have to take your PC views and take up another cause for the good of mankind. Thank you for looking out for everyone though.

 

[pollardsvision]

More and more, I really don't think the flag as a symbol of a "Southern Pride" thing makes much sense. It's just an odd thing.

I'm not talking about loving where you are from. I am from a Southern state, and do love it.

Southern states are wonderful, wonderful places to live, filled with wonderful people. I'm not sure why anyone would feel the need to express "pride" in that by displaying a symbol from the darkest and most embarrassing time the history of the South. It doesn't make anymore sense than making a flag with a list of income or test scores by state and using that as your personal symbol for Southern pride.

Then, of course, there's also the question of why the entire South needs symbols of pride to begin with, but that's another matter. Maybe leave that one for the SEC football thread.

Now, excuse me while I go celebrate my Southern Pride with a livermush sandwich.

 

[Slapdash]

Livermush = SPEED

 

[Hooper31]

This is odd. I live in Western PA and haven't seen any confederate flags which makes sense since PA was in the Union.

Maybe it has more to do with racing fans than locality. I dunno cause I don't go to the racetrack...

You're surrounded by dirt tracks. I lived about 10 miles south of Punxsy just off 119 in Marion Center. Within an hour of where we where we had Marion Center, Lernerville, Dog Hollow, and Bedford speedways. If you go to any of these tracks there will be venders in the parking lots peddling all sorts of random stuff. Every table has confederate flags on belt buckles, t-shirts, flags, etc. I say think knowing that the crowd at the dirt tracks isn't an average slice of western PA. I guess is wouldn't surprise me if you didn't see any confederate flags around your area.

EDIT: Something that stuck out to me more than the confederate flags for sale was the Nazi flag that was hanging with them.

 

[matttyl]

Was at the DMV earlier today and saw a guy walking by me with a small confederate flag on the front of his t-shirt (where a small pocket would be). The t-shirt was camo, and on the back when he walked by me I saw the name of the company who made the shirt - Dixie Outfitters.

I found that webpage to see if they had anything to say about the current situation(s) with the flag and it's likeness. Here's what's on the main page of their site:

"[SIZE=large]Thank you all for bearing with us while we process your orders. Our suppliers ran out of inventory due to overwhelming demand. We truly appreciate your patience as we continue to work on getting all orders delivered. God Bless Dixie… and our loyal Dixie Outfitters customers![/SIZE]"

 

[cstu]

Still protesting a piece of cloth in here I see. Give it up guys, the flag will always be around and you will just have to take your PC views and take up another cause for the good of mankind. Thank you for looking out for everyone though.

It'll never go away, just like the Nazi flag will never away. That's fine, just don't have it on public property.

 

[matttyl]

I grew up in authentic redneck coal mining country (western PA). Moved to the west coast when I was 10. Its a different world. I haven't been back there in 25 years. Well, just spent a week in my old hometown. Its still the same world in many ways. I saw plenty of confederate flags, and one night I saw so many I couldn't count them. That was at the racetrack.

My wife couldn't seem to grasp that there were so many at the track. For her the confederate flag has one meaning, and that's institutionalized bigotry. Making it worse we're in a northern state. Why would so many people in the north being wanting to sport a confederate flag? I get it to a small degree. The confederate flag represents an old traditional feeling that doesn't have anything to do with race. We had them around when I was a kid and we didn't have any black folk around. When I say none, I mean NONE. There was no diversity in the small town I grew up in. 100% white anglo saxon protestant. No exceptions. This said, I think they're silly. There may be some folks clinging to some sense of good-ole-times, but the confederate flag is a symbol of institutionalized bigotry IMO.

At the racetrack last Saturday night I lost count of the bumper stickers, t-shirts, and random confederate flags all over the place. Dissappointing in some ways. Not sure how to react to all of them. I just tried to ignore it as much as I could. This said, I think the vast majority of people there didn't embrace it. Not sure. Just a hunch. Its not like I could read their minds. Perhaps just wishful thinking on my part.

Planning on hitting the races in two weeks back here in WA state. Miss my 410 sprint car action. Wondering how many of those flags I'll see here. Hoping not near as many.

Obviously these people aren't thinking the flag = "slavery" or "segregation" or "institutionalized bigotry" or "the South will rise again".

Anyone that's still flying that flag after all the controversy of the past few weeks is doing so with full knowledge of what it means to most black people and to the vast majority of Americans. Regardless of what their culture led them to believe it stood for, or even what it might still stand for to them, they now know what it really means to the outside world. And when you fly a flag you are, by definition, projecting something about yourself to that outside world, the one that interprets the flag as advocacy of those things you claim those who fly it are not thinking.

The defense of ignorance was always flimsy, but after the last month it's totally gone. Fly it all you want, but don't whine about people thinking you're a racist POS for doing so when you knew that's exactly what people will think when you made the decision to do it.

Simply not true.

"The poll shows that 57% of Americans see the flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism, about the same as in 2000 when 59% said they viewed it as a symbol of pride."

Personally....if 43% think it stands for something other than Southern pride, than there is no argument to make. 43% is an astoundingly HIGH number. If more than 4 out of ten people think something is a symbol of racism, and you continue to fly it, you're either incredibly stubborn and ignorant, or truly racist and don't care.

Again, that's not true either. Did you read the article posted, or see the actual results of the survey?

Of all Americans, 59% see it as a symbol of Southern pride. 33% see it as a symbol of racism. 5% say both equally. 5% say neither, and 1% had "no opinion".

 

[moleculo]

I grew up in authentic redneck coal mining country (western PA). Moved to the west coast when I was 10. Its a different world. I haven't been back there in 25 years. Well, just spent a week in my old hometown. Its still the same world in many ways. I saw plenty of confederate flags, and one night I saw so many I couldn't count them. That was at the racetrack.

My wife couldn't seem to grasp that there were so many at the track. For her the confederate flag has one meaning, and that's institutionalized bigotry. Making it worse we're in a northern state. Why would so many people in the north being wanting to sport a confederate flag? I get it to a small degree. The confederate flag represents an old traditional feeling that doesn't have anything to do with race. We had them around when I was a kid and we didn't have any black folk around. When I say none, I mean NONE. There was no diversity in the small town I grew up in. 100% white anglo saxon protestant. No exceptions. This said, I think they're silly. There may be some folks clinging to some sense of good-ole-times, but the confederate flag is a symbol of institutionalized bigotry IMO.

At the racetrack last Saturday night I lost count of the bumper stickers, t-shirts, and random confederate flags all over the place. Dissappointing in some ways. Not sure how to react to all of them. I just tried to ignore it as much as I could. This said, I think the vast majority of people there didn't embrace it. Not sure. Just a hunch. Its not like I could read their minds. Perhaps just wishful thinking on my part.

Planning on hitting the races in two weeks back here in WA state. Miss my 410 sprint car action. Wondering how many of those flags I'll see here. Hoping not near as many.

Obviously these people aren't thinking the flag = "slavery" or "segregation" or "institutionalized bigotry" or "the South will rise again".

Anyone that's still flying that flag after all the controversy of the past few weeks is doing so with full knowledge of what it means to most black people and to the vast majority of Americans. Regardless of what their culture led them to believe it stood for, or even what it might still stand for to them, they now know what it really means to the outside world. And when you fly a flag you are, by definition, projecting something about yourself to that outside world, the one that interprets the flag as advocacy of those things you claim those who fly it are not thinking.

The defense of ignorance was always flimsy, but after the last month it's totally gone. Fly it all you want, but don't whine about people thinking you're a racist POS for doing so when you knew that's exactly what people will think when you made the decision to do it.

Simply not true.

"The poll shows that 57% of Americans see the flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism, about the same as in 2000 when 59% said they viewed it as a symbol of pride."

Personally....if 43% think it stands for something other than Southern pride, than there is no argument to make. 43% is an astoundingly HIGH number. If more than 4 out of ten people think something is a symbol of racism, and you continue to fly it, you're either incredibly stubborn and ignorant, or truly racist and don't care.

Again, that's not true either. Did you read the article posted, or see the actual results of the survey?

Of all Americans, 59% see it as a symbol of Southern pride. 33% see it as a symbol of racism. 5% say both equally. 5% say neither, and 1% had "no opinion".

what percentage of the general population has to see it as a symbol of racism for it to be significant?

What percentage of a particular minority has to see it as a symbol of racism for their concerns to be taken seriously?

 

[Yenrub]

Our new (Confederate) Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens

So having a t-shirt or a hat or the flag (symbol) or something means you have to believe everything about that group or culture? Can I wear a star of David and not be Jewish? Can I fly (or even own) a flag with a crescent moon and a single star and not be Islamic? Up until yesterday I drove a Mini Cooper and put a Union Jack symbol on it (to show the car's heritage), but I'm not British and the car itself was made in Germany.

Looking at your avatar, do you believe in everything that the Dark Side stands for, and thus against the Jedi?

You don’t have to believe anything about the group or culture however you shouldn’t be surprise when you are treated as if you do believe in everything about that group or culture.

 

[The Commish]

Still protesting a piece of cloth in here I see. Give it up guys, the flag will always be around and you will just have to take your PC views and take up another cause for the good of mankind. Thank you for looking out for everyone though.

It'll never go away, just like the Nazi flag will never away. That's fine, just don't have it on public property.

Someone earlier said the "slippery slope" argument was a strawman, but that's exactly what's playing out in society. First it was "don't fly it on state grounds but it's ok to have in a memorial/museum on display"....now it's "don't have it on public property".

Personally, I don't care what they do with it. This has been a pretty entertaining "debate" to watch unfold over the last few weeks. At least some people are getting educated on our country's history, so there's that.

 

[matttyl]

I grew up in authentic redneck coal mining country (western PA). Moved to the west coast when I was 10. Its a different world. I haven't been back there in 25 years. Well, just spent a week in my old hometown. Its still the same world in many ways. I saw plenty of confederate flags, and one night I saw so many I couldn't count them. That was at the racetrack.

My wife couldn't seem to grasp that there were so many at the track. For her the confederate flag has one meaning, and that's institutionalized bigotry. Making it worse we're in a northern state. Why would so many people in the north being wanting to sport a confederate flag? I get it to a small degree. The confederate flag represents an old traditional feeling that doesn't have anything to do with race. We had them around when I was a kid and we didn't have any black folk around. When I say none, I mean NONE. There was no diversity in the small town I grew up in. 100% white anglo saxon protestant. No exceptions. This said, I think they're silly. There may be some folks clinging to some sense of good-ole-times, but the confederate flag is a symbol of institutionalized bigotry IMO.

At the racetrack last Saturday night I lost count of the bumper stickers, t-shirts, and random confederate flags all over the place. Dissappointing in some ways. Not sure how to react to all of them. I just tried to ignore it as much as I could. This said, I think the vast majority of people there didn't embrace it. Not sure. Just a hunch. Its not like I could read their minds. Perhaps just wishful thinking on my part.

Planning on hitting the races in two weeks back here in WA state. Miss my 410 sprint car action. Wondering how many of those flags I'll see here. Hoping not near as many.

Obviously these people aren't thinking the flag = "slavery" or "segregation" or "institutionalized bigotry" or "the South will rise again".

Anyone that's still flying that flag after all the controversy of the past few weeks is doing so with full knowledge of what it means to most black people and to the vast majority of Americans. Regardless of what their culture led them to believe it stood for, or even what it might still stand for to them, they now know what it really means to the outside world. And when you fly a flag you are, by definition, projecting something about yourself to that outside world, the one that interprets the flag as advocacy of those things you claim those who fly it are not thinking.

The defense of ignorance was always flimsy, but after the last month it's totally gone. Fly it all you want, but don't whine about people thinking you're a racist POS for doing so when you knew that's exactly what people will think when you made the decision to do it.

Simply not true.

"The poll shows that 57% of Americans see the flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism, about the same as in 2000 when 59% said they viewed it as a symbol of pride."

Personally....if 43% think it stands for something other than Southern pride, than there is no argument to make. 43% is an astoundingly HIGH number. If more than 4 out of ten people think something is a symbol of racism, and you continue to fly it, you're either incredibly stubborn and ignorant, or truly racist and don't care.

Again, that's not true either. Did you read the article posted, or see the actual results of the survey?

Of all Americans, 59% see it as a symbol of Southern pride. 33% see it as a symbol of racism. 5% say both equally. 5% say neither, and 1% had "no opinion".

what percentage of the general population has to see it as a symbol of racism for it to be significant?

What percentage of a particular minority has to see it as a symbol of racism for their concerns to be taken seriously?

1% and 1%? I don't know. All I was saying is that what was stated above, twice now, is not correct.

 

[matttyl]

Our new (Confederate) Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens

So having a t-shirt or a hat or the flag (symbol) or something means you have to believe everything about that group or culture? Can I wear a star of David and not be Jewish? Can I fly (or even own) a flag with a crescent moon and a single star and not be Islamic? Up until yesterday I drove a Mini Cooper and put a Union Jack symbol on it (to show the car's heritage), but I'm not British and the car itself was made in Germany.

Looking at your avatar, do you believe in everything that the Dark Side stands for, and thus against the Jedi?

You don’t have to believe anything about the group or culture however you shouldn’t be surprise when you are treated as if you do believe in everything about that group or culture.

Great, so the next time someone sees my Dave Matthews Band "firewalker" sticker they are going to assume I like the song Satellite. Or if they see my Rolling Stones "tongue" sticker they'll think I enjoyed their "Dirty Work" album.

 

[Jayrod]

Our new (Confederate) Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens

So having a t-shirt or a hat or the flag (symbol) or something means you have to believe everything about that group or culture? Can I wear a star of David and not be Jewish? Can I fly (or even own) a flag with a crescent moon and a single star and not be Islamic? Up until yesterday I drove a Mini Cooper and put a Union Jack symbol on it (to show the car's heritage), but I'm not British and the car itself was made in Germany.

Looking at your avatar, do you believe in everything that the Dark Side stands for, and thus against the Jedi?

You don’t have to believe anything about the group or culture however you shouldn’t be surprise when you are treated as if you do believe in everything about that group or culture.

Great, so the next time someone sees my Dave Matthews Band "firewalker" sticker they are going to assume I like the song Satellite. Or if they see my Rolling Stones "tongue" sticker they'll think I enjoyed their "Dirty Work" album.

No, this is like you having a sticker with the artwork from the Dirty Work album and people assuming you like the Dirty Work album....because you know, the Confederate flag was actually created for and used by the armies that fought against the US government for the right to continue to treat black people like cattle.

You fly the confederate flag, that's the legacy. That's what the flag was created for and that's what it represents.

 

[Joe Summer]

Our new (Confederate) Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens

So having a t-shirt or a hat or the flag (symbol) or something means you have to believe everything about that group or culture? Can I wear a star of David and not be Jewish? Can I fly (or even own) a flag with a crescent moon and a single star and not be Islamic? Up until yesterday I drove a Mini Cooper and put a Union Jack symbol on it (to show the car's heritage), but I'm not British and the car itself was made in Germany. Looking at your avatar, do you believe in everything that the Dark Side stands for, and thus against the Jedi?

You don’t have to believe anything about the group or culture however you shouldn’t be surprise when you are treated as if you do believe in everything about that group or culture.

Great, so the next time someone sees my Dave Matthews Band "firewalker" sticker they are going to assume I like the song Satellite. Or if they see my Rolling Stones "tongue" sticker they'll think I enjoyed their "Dirty Work" album.

And the next time someone sees your collection of child porn, they're going to assume that you like child porn.

 

[cstu]

And the next time someone sees your collection of child porn, they're going to assume that you like child porn.

I went to Jared's.

 

[Jackstraw]

Confederate flag for me has always been the southern/redneck middle finger.

Love the south and rednecks. Consider myself one. But if you are flying that flag especially now it is basically an easy way for me to spot the A holes.

I won't front anyone with one but I'll most likely just steer clear of them. Which is probably just fine with both parties involved.

It's a tribal thing and its a tribe I don't want to hang out with.

 

[Amused to Death]

Was at the DMV earlier today and saw a guy walking by me with a small confederate flag on the front of his t-shirt (where a small pocket would be). The t-shirt was camo, and on the back when he walked by me I saw the name of the company who made the shirt - Dixie Outfitters.

I found that webpage to see if they had anything to say about the current situation(s) with the flag and it's likeness. Here's what's on the main page of their site:

"[SIZE=large]Thank you all for bearing with us while we process your orders. Our suppliers ran out of inventory due to overwhelming demand. We truly appreciate your patience as we continue to work on getting all orders delivered. God Bless Dixie… and our loyal Dixie Outfitters customers![/SIZE]"

You seem shocked at the amount of bigotry left in our country. Never in short supply.

I wonder if I can buy an ISIS flag on-line. Ya know, some people might interpret it to mean something other than a group of rebels intent on killing Americans.

 

[matttyl]

Our new (Confederate) Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens

So having a t-shirt or a hat or the flag (symbol) or something means you have to believe everything about that group or culture? Can I wear a star of David and not be Jewish? Can I fly (or even own) a flag with a crescent moon and a single star and not be Islamic? Up until yesterday I drove a Mini Cooper and put a Union Jack symbol on it (to show the car's heritage), but I'm not British and the car itself was made in Germany.

Looking at your avatar, do you believe in everything that the Dark Side stands for, and thus against the Jedi?

You don’t have to believe anything about the group or culture however you shouldn’t be surprise when you are treated as if you do believe in everything about that group or culture.

Great, so the next time someone sees my Dave Matthews Band "firewalker" sticker they are going to assume I like the song Satellite. Or if they see my Rolling Stones "tongue" sticker they'll think I enjoyed their "Dirty Work" album.

No, this is like you having a sticker with the artwork from the Dirty Work album and people assuming you like the Dirty Work album....because you know, the Confederate flag was actually created for and used by the armies that fought against the US government for the right to continue to treat black people like cattle.

You fly the confederate flag, that's the legacy. That's what the flag was created for and that's what it represents.

I was making a joke, but your analogy is off not mine. What's the most well known symbol of the Confederacy, of the Dave Matthews Band, and of The Rolling Stones? The flag isn't associated with the army of the Confederate states at this point in time nearly as much as it is with the Confederacy in general, or as the recent CNN poll shows - to Southern Pride.

 

[matttyl]

Was at the DMV earlier today and saw a guy walking by me with a small confederate flag on the front of his t-shirt (where a small pocket would be). The t-shirt was camo, and on the back when he walked by me I saw the name of the company who made the shirt - Dixie Outfitters.

I found that webpage to see if they had anything to say about the current situation(s) with the flag and it's likeness. Here's what's on the main page of their site:

"[SIZE=large]Thank you all for bearing with us while we process your orders. Our suppliers ran out of inventory due to overwhelming demand. We truly appreciate your patience as we continue to work on getting all orders delivered. God Bless Dixie… and our loyal Dixie Outfitters customers![/SIZE]"

You seem shocked at the amount of bigotry left in our country. Never in short supply.

I wonder if I can buy an ISIS flag on-line. Ya know, some people might interpret it to mean something other than a group of rebels intent on killing Americans.

Not shocked at all. I also don't assume each and every person wearing one or having any depiction of one is automatically a bigot - you apparently do. I'm in the majority, though.

 

[tdoss]

Was at the DMV earlier today and saw a guy walking by me with a small confederate flag on the front of his t-shirt (where a small pocket would be). The t-shirt was camo, and on the back when he walked by me I saw the name of the company who made the shirt - Dixie Outfitters.

I found that webpage to see if they had anything to say about the current situation(s) with the flag and it's likeness. Here's what's on the main page of their site:

"Thank you all for bearing with us while we process your orders. Our suppliers ran out of inventory due to overwhelming demand. We truly appreciate your patience as we continue to work on getting all orders delivered. God Bless Dixie and our loyal Dixie Outfitters customers!"

You seem shocked at the amount of bigotry left in our country. Never in short supply.I wonder if I can buy an ISIS flag on-line. Ya know, some people might interpret it to mean something other than a group of rebels intent on killing Americans.

Not shocked at all. I also don't assume each and every person wearing one or having any depiction of one is automatically a bigot - you apparently do. I'm in the majority, though.

Sounds a little like profiling...but I'm just gonna continue drinking my tea and let y'all get into the right and wrong of judging people by their cover.

 

[moleculo]

Was at the DMV earlier today and saw a guy walking by me with a small confederate flag on the front of his t-shirt (where a small pocket would be). The t-shirt was camo, and on the back when he walked by me I saw the name of the company who made the shirt - Dixie Outfitters.

I found that webpage to see if they had anything to say about the current situation(s) with the flag and it's likeness. Here's what's on the main page of their site:

"Thank you all for bearing with us while we process your orders. Our suppliers ran out of inventory due to overwhelming demand. We truly appreciate your patience as we continue to work on getting all orders delivered. God Bless Dixie and our loyal Dixie Outfitters customers!"

You seem shocked at the amount of bigotry left in our country. Never in short supply.I wonder if I can buy an ISIS flag on-line. Ya know, some people might interpret it to mean something other than a group of rebels intent on killing Americans.

Not shocked at all. I also don't assume each and every person wearing one or having any depiction of one is automatically a bigot - you apparently do. I'm in the majority, though.

Sounds a little like profiling...but I'm just gonna continue drinking my tea and let y'all get into the right and wrong of judging people by their cover.

it's clearly wrong to judge a book by it's cover, but there is nothing wrong with judging people by how they choose to represent themselves to the world.

 

[jonessed]

I grew up in authentic redneck coal mining country (western PA). Moved to the west coast when I was 10. Its a different world. I haven't been back there in 25 years. Well, just spent a week in my old hometown. Its still the same world in many ways. I saw plenty of confederate flags, and one night I saw so many I couldn't count them. That was at the racetrack.

My wife couldn't seem to grasp that there were so many at the track. For her the confederate flag has one meaning, and that's institutionalized bigotry. Making it worse we're in a northern state. Why would so many people in the north being wanting to sport a confederate flag? I get it to a small degree. The confederate flag represents an old traditional feeling that doesn't have anything to do with race. We had them around when I was a kid and we didn't have any black folk around. When I say none, I mean NONE. There was no diversity in the small town I grew up in. 100% white anglo saxon protestant. No exceptions. This said, I think they're silly. There may be some folks clinging to some sense of good-ole-times, but the confederate flag is a symbol of institutionalized bigotry IMO.

At the racetrack last Saturday night I lost count of the bumper stickers, t-shirts, and random confederate flags all over the place. Dissappointing in some ways. Not sure how to react to all of them. I just tried to ignore it as much as I could. This said, I think the vast majority of people there didn't embrace it. Not sure. Just a hunch. Its not like I could read their minds. Perhaps just wishful thinking on my part.

Planning on hitting the races in two weeks back here in WA state. Miss my 410 sprint car action. Wondering how many of those flags I'll see here. Hoping not near as many.

Obviously these people aren't thinking the flag = "slavery" or "segregation" or "institutionalized bigotry" or "the South will rise again".

Anyone that's still flying that flag after all the controversy of the past few weeks is doing so with full knowledge of what it means to most black people and to the vast majority of Americans. Regardless of what their culture led them to believe it stood for, or even what it might still stand for to them, they now know what it really means to the outside world. And when you fly a flag you are, by definition, projecting something about yourself to that outside world, the one that interprets the flag as advocacy of those things you claim those who fly it are not thinking.

The defense of ignorance was always flimsy, but after the last month it's totally gone. Fly it all you want, but don't whine about people thinking you're a racist POS for doing so when you knew that's exactly what people will think when you made the decision to do it.

Simply not true."The poll shows that 57% of Americans see the flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism, about the same as in 2000 when 59% said they viewed it as a symbol of pride."

Personally....if 43% think it stands for something other than Southern pride, than there is no argument to make. 43% is an astoundingly HIGH number. If more than 4 out of ten people think something is a symbol of racism, and you continue to fly it, you're either incredibly stubborn and ignorant, or truly racist and don't care.

Again, that's not true either. Did you read the article posted, or see the actual results of the survey?Of all Americans, 59% see it as a symbol of Southern pride. 33% see it as a symbol of racism. 5% say both equally. 5% say neither, and 1% had "no opinion".

what percentage of the general population has to see it as a symbol of racism for it to be significant?What percentage of a particular minority has to see it as a symbol of racism for their concerns to be taken seriously?

That's plenty to take it seriously. It might even be enough to make some local changes.

What are you looking for? A national ban?

 

[Poncho]

Not from the south or have ever lived there. Always assumed it was a "southern pride" thing, or people that listened to southern rock when I was in h.s...

how old are you?

I am 48 so southern rock was big in the 80's when I was in h.s.

 

[Parrothead]

Was at the DMV earlier today and saw a guy walking by me with a small confederate flag on the front of his t-shirt (where a small pocket would be). The t-shirt was camo, and on the back when he walked by me I saw the name of the company who made the shirt - Dixie Outfitters.

I found that webpage to see if they had anything to say about the current situation(s) with the flag and it's likeness. Here's what's on the main page of their site:

"Thank you all for bearing with us while we process your orders. Our suppliers ran out of inventory due to overwhelming demand. We truly appreciate your patience as we continue to work on getting all orders delivered. God Bless Dixie and our loyal Dixie Outfitters customers!"

You seem shocked at the amount of bigotry left in our country. Never in short supply.I wonder if I can buy an ISIS flag on-line. Ya know, some people might interpret it to mean something other than a group of rebels intent on killing Americans.

Not shocked at all. I also don't assume each and every person wearing one or having any depiction of one is automatically a bigot - you apparently do. I'm in the majority, though.

Sounds a little like profiling...but I'm just gonna continue drinking my tea and let y'all get into the right and wrong of judging people by their cover.

it's clearly wrong to judge a book by it's cover, but there is nothing wrong with judging people by how they choose to represent themselves to the world.

including how they dress?

 

[Poncho]

I feel I am missing out by not being offended by a flag, darn.....

 

[matttyl]

Was at the DMV earlier today and saw a guy walking by me with a small confederate flag on the front of his t-shirt (where a small pocket would be). The t-shirt was camo, and on the back when he walked by me I saw the name of the company who made the shirt - Dixie Outfitters.

I found that webpage to see if they had anything to say about the current situation(s) with the flag and it's likeness. Here's what's on the main page of their site:

"Thank you all for bearing with us while we process your orders. Our suppliers ran out of inventory due to overwhelming demand. We truly appreciate your patience as we continue to work on getting all orders delivered. God Bless Dixie and our loyal Dixie Outfitters customers!"

You seem shocked at the amount of bigotry left in our country. Never in short supply.I wonder if I can buy an ISIS flag on-line. Ya know, some people might interpret it to mean something other than a group of rebels intent on killing Americans.

Not shocked at all. I also don't assume each and every person wearing one or having any depiction of one is automatically a bigot - you apparently do. I'm in the majority, though.

Sounds a little like profiling...but I'm just gonna continue drinking my tea and let y'all get into the right and wrong of judging people by their cover.

it's clearly wrong to judge a book by it's cover, but there is nothing wrong with judging people by how they choose to represent themselves to the world.

Really? The left was pretty quick to pull out the bigot word for anyone who said anything that could possibly be construed as negative toward Caitlyn Jenner.

 

[moleculo]

Was at the DMV earlier today and saw a guy walking by me with a small confederate flag on the front of his t-shirt (where a small pocket would be). The t-shirt was camo, and on the back when he walked by me I saw the name of the company who made the shirt - Dixie Outfitters.

I found that webpage to see if they had anything to say about the current situation(s) with the flag and it's likeness. Here's what's on the main page of their site:

"Thank you all for bearing with us while we process your orders. Our suppliers ran out of inventory due to overwhelming demand. We truly appreciate your patience as we continue to work on getting all orders delivered. God Bless Dixie and our loyal Dixie Outfitters customers!"

You seem shocked at the amount of bigotry left in our country. Never in short supply.I wonder if I can buy an ISIS flag on-line. Ya know, some people might interpret it to mean something other than a group of rebels intent on killing Americans.

Not shocked at all. I also don't assume each and every person wearing one or having any depiction of one is automatically a bigot - you apparently do. I'm in the majority, though.

Sounds a little like profiling...but I'm just gonna continue drinking my tea and let y'all get into the right and wrong of judging people by their cover.

it's clearly wrong to judge a book by it's cover, but there is nothing wrong with judging people by how they choose to represent themselves to the world.

Really? The left was pretty quick to pull out the bigot word for anyone who said anything that could possibly be construed as negative toward Caitlyn Jenner.

I'm not of the left. I reserve the right to judge as I see fit.

 

[Amused to Death]

I feel I am missing out by not being offended by a flag, darn.....

For the record, I'm not offended. But I do recognize that others could be. Who am I to tell others how to feel - especially when the origin of the flag represented rebels who took up arms against my country. And I certainly don't advocate the outright banning of the flag. It just doesn't belong flying over an American government building.

 

[Poncho]

I feel I am missing out by not being offended by a flag, darn.....

For the record, I'm not offended. But I do recognize that others could be. Who am I to tell others how to feel - especially when the origin of the flag represented rebels who took up arms against my country. And I certainly don't advocate the outright banning of the flag. It just doesn't belong flying over an American government building.

You are right, I don't believe I have the right to tell people from the south how they should feel about their flag.....

 

[Amused to Death]

I feel I am missing out by not being offended by a flag, darn.....

For the record, I'm not offended. But I do recognize that others could be. Who am I to tell others how to feel - especially when the origin of the flag represented rebels who took up arms against my country. And I certainly don't advocate the outright banning of the flag. It just doesn't belong flying over an American government building.

You are right, I don't believe I have the right to tell people from the south how they should feel about their flag.....

They can feel however they want. Everyone's free to view it as they see fit. But it doesn't belong over a statehouse. Or do you disagree?

 

[TheIronSheik]

Just curious, what percentage of people who fly the Confederate flag support slavery?

 

[Poncho]

I feel I am missing out by not being offended by a flag, darn.....

For the record, I'm not offended. But I do recognize that others could be. Who am I to tell others how to feel - especially when the origin of the flag represented rebels who took up arms against my country. And I certainly don't advocate the outright banning of the flag. It just doesn't belong flying over an American government building.

You are right, I don't believe I have the right to tell people from the south how they should feel about their flag.....

They can feel however they want. Everyone's free to view it as they see fit. But it doesn't belong over a statehouse. Or do you disagree?

I don't really know if it belongs over a statehouse in the south or not? I am not from their and don't have any feelings one way or the other. I find it fascinating people are all up in arms over the flag now (today) as opposed to 10 years ago. I don't view it any differently....

 

[MattFancy]

I feel I am missing out by not being offended by a flag, darn.....

For the record, I'm not offended. But I do recognize that others could be. Who am I to tell others how to feel - especially when the origin of the flag represented rebels who took up arms against my country. And I certainly don't advocate the outright banning of the flag. It just doesn't belong flying over an American government building.

You are right, I don't believe I have the right to tell people from the south how they should feel about their flag.....

They can feel however they want. Everyone's free to view it as they see fit. But it doesn't belong over a statehouse. Or do you disagree?

I don't really know if it belongs over a statehouse in the south or not? I am not from their and don't have any feelings one way or the other. I find it fascinating people are all up in arms over the flag now (today) as opposed to 10 years ago. I don't view it any differently....

I think it's strange to see it flying over a State House. Considering those states left the US during the Civil War, I have no problems with them taking the flag down from State Houses.

But if Jim Bob Johnson in middle of nowhere Alabama wants to fly it, go for it. I think he's crazy, but whatever.

 

[Poncho]

I feel I am missing out by not being offended by a flag, darn.....

For the record, I'm not offended. But I do recognize that others could be. Who am I to tell others how to feel - especially when the origin of the flag represented rebels who took up arms against my country. And I certainly don't advocate the outright banning of the flag. It just doesn't belong flying over an American government building.

You are right, I don't believe I have the right to tell people from the south how they should feel about their flag.....

They can feel however they want. Everyone's free to view it as they see fit. But it doesn't belong over a statehouse. Or do you disagree?

I don't really know if it belongs over a statehouse in the south or not? I am not from their and don't have any feelings one way or the other. I find it fascinating people are all up in arms over the flag now (today) as opposed to 10 years ago. I don't view it any differently....

I think it's strange to see it flying over a State House. Considering those states left the US during the Civil War, I have no problems with them taking the flag down from State Houses.

But if Jim Bob Johnson in middle of nowhere Alabama wants to fly it, go for it. I think he's crazy, but whatever.

Don't they have a stupid bear flag flying over the statehouse in California? I think that's dumb too.

 

[General Malaise]

I feel I am missing out by not being offended by a flag, darn.....

For the record, I'm not offended. But I do recognize that others could be. Who am I to tell others how to feel - especially when the origin of the flag represented rebels who took up arms against my country. And I certainly don't advocate the outright banning of the flag. It just doesn't belong flying over an American government building.

You are right, I don't believe I have the right to tell people from the south how they should feel about their flag.....

They can feel however they want. Everyone's free to view it as they see fit. But it doesn't belong over a statehouse. Or do you disagree?

I don't really know if it belongs over a statehouse in the south or not? I am not from their and don't have any feelings one way or the other. I find it fascinating people are all up in arms over the flag now (today) as opposed to 10 years ago. I don't view it any differently....

I think it's strange to see it flying over a State House. Considering those states left the US during the Civil War, I have no problems with them taking the flag down from State Houses.

But if Jim Bob Johnson in middle of nowhere Alabama wants to fly it, go for it. I think he's crazy, but whatever.

Don't they have a stupid bear flag flying over the statehouse in California? I think that's dumb too.

We know who's alias this is yet?

 

[Amused to Death]

I think it's strange to see it flying over a State House. Considering those states left the US during the Civil War, I have no problems with them taking the flag down from State Houses.

But if Jim Bob Johnson in middle of nowhere Alabama wants to fly it, go for it. I think he's crazy, but whatever.

Don't they have a stupid bear flag flying over the statehouse in California? I think that's dumb too.

Show how and when the CA flag was used as a symbol of hatred against America and I'd say take that one down too.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Don't hate on us Californians because our flag could beat up all of the other state flags.

 

[Poncho]

Don't hate on us Californians because our flag could beat up all of the other state flags.

It offends me, take it down....

 

[Mjolnirs]

For the record, I'm not offended. But I do recognize that others could be. Who am I to tell others how to feel - especially when the origin of the flag represented rebels who took up arms against my country. And I certainly don't advocate the outright banning of the flag. It just doesn't belong flying over an American government building.

They can feel however they want. Everyone's free to view it as they see fit. But it doesn't belong over a statehouse. Or do you disagree?

I don't really know if it belongs over a statehouse in the south or not? I am not from their and don't have any feelings one way or the other. I find it fascinating people are all up in arms over the flag now (today) as opposed to 10 years ago. I don't view it any differently....

I think it's strange to see it flying over a State House. Considering those states left the US during the Civil War, I have no problems with them taking the flag down from State Houses.

But if Jim Bob Johnson in middle of nowhere Alabama wants to fly it, go for it. I think he's crazy, but whatever.

Good thing they took off of the State house 15 years ago.