What does the confederate flag mean to you? (7 Viewers)

[The Commish]

Washington (CNN)In an embarrassing setback for the Republican Party, which is trying to make inroads with minority voters, House Republican leaders abruptly yanked a spending bill off the floor after a blow up over the Confederate flag.

House members would have been voting on a proposal to allow the continued display of the flag at National Park Service cemeteries. The amendment was to be attached to the annual spending bill funding the Interior Department.

Democrats pounced on the political opening.

"Even in South Carolina today, where the Confederacy was born, that flag is being taken down from the state capitol grounds after both Republican-controlled houses of that state's assembly voted to remove it," said Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Maryland), the minority whip. "Certainly on this day we ought not to see a Republican-led Congress move in the opposite direction."

"You cannot go halfway -- you have to go the whole way," Lewis said when asked about Boehner's proposal to try to come up with a compromise, saying it was time for the flag to come down altogether "just do it - do the right thing."

IMO this is getting ridiculous. Are they next going to want to remove confederate headstones that have the confederate flag engraved in them?

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.

The bill would have permitted displays of the confederate flag in federal cemeteries. It had nothing to do with private property and what is or is not acceptable there. The property belongs to all of us collectively, and we all have a say in what happens there. That includes, for example, black families who probably don't want to be seeing symbols of slavery and segregation on their way to mourn their deceased loved ones. There are lots of regulations and restrictions concerning burials in federal cemeteries, so it's not like we're venturing into uncharted waters. If people don't wish to comply with those regulations they can have their loved ones buried elsewhere and do whatever they want with flags or headstones or anything else, so long as whoever owns that property is OK with it.

This is key IMO.

Yup, it is. And the bill was roundly ridiculed and then buried by our elected representatives, as it should have been. Case closed.

We'll see how far our official try and take this. IMO, it's as dangerous to attempt to eradicate it completely as it is to celebrate it. We'll see how far "political correctness" goes with this.

What in God's name are you talking about? Nothing is being "eradicated." The GOP tried to introduce a new measure to supersede newly adopted restrictions on displays in national cemeteries and on gift shop sales. It was bizarre both in the sense that the legislature rarely concerns itself with oversight of federal property to that level of detail as a general matter, and because the impetus for this unusual reach was protecting Confederate flags.

Nobody's eradicating anything. Nobody's trying to take anything anywhere. There's already a ton of things you can't do a grave site in a national cemetery, including leaving a candle, holding a vigil or religious service of any kind, use your own design of any kind for a headstone unless in a specially designated area, etc. We're not talking about a free exchange of ideas in an open public space here. It's about as tight a ship as you'll find, and people who don't want to comply with all that have plenty of other options for burial. You really think it's super-important that the one thing we decide to specifically protect in this restrictive environment is the confederate flag?

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

It's not a concern either. Though it seems like a box you keep trying to put me in to. Not sure why. I'm good with the case by case approach. It's natural to wonder how far the lunatics are willing to go. I know that Gettysburg is already removing confederate flag items. They must put credence in "nutjobs" which isn't really all that helpful.

 

[cstu]

It's not a concern either. Though it seems like a box you keep trying to put me in to. Not sure why. I'm good with the case by case approach. It's natural to wonder how far the lunatics are willing to go. I know that Gettysburg is already removing confederate flag items. They must put credence in "nutjobs" which isn't really all that helpful.

The bookstore is not the museum:

CBS Philly reports the Gettysburg bookstore will continue to sell items that feature both the American and the Confederate flag, as long as the depiction is in proper “historical context,” but “will no longer sell items that use the battle flag as a stand-alone feature.”

The Gettysburg bookstore’s move is in response to a National Park Service request, wherein they asked “concessionaries” to quit selling the Confederate flag following the attack on Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in South Carolina.

 

[The Commish]

personally, I think that the only place it is appropriate to fly the flag is over graves of soldiers who fought in battle under that flag - i.e. soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia or the Army of Tennessee.

that being said, a more appropriate flag would be the ***official*** confederate flag.

Can you explain this last part? I think that would be even worse.

these guys died defending their (albeit) short-lived country, fighting against the USofA. It doesn't seem right to fly Old Glory over their graves.

The Southern Cross, (ala Dukes of Hazzard) was a battle flag, not the national flag. If they died in defense of the Confederate States of America, why wouldn't the national flag of the CSA be flown over their graves?

Well, we are talking about taking the battle flag down because it represented x,y,z People will argue that it doesn't represent x,y,z or that it does etc. That argument doesn't exist with the CSA flag. There's no debate that whatever negative connotation people feel the battle flag brings with it, the CSA flag brings that negative connotation plus some. So I don't see why it'd be ok to fly something even more inflammatory.

 

[MattFancy]

Kid Rock To Confederate Flag Protesters: ‘Kiss My ###’

I'm confused, why does someone from Detroit care about the Confederate flag?

 

[The Commish]

It's not a concern either. Though it seems like a box you keep trying to put me in to. Not sure why. I'm good with the case by case approach. It's natural to wonder how far the lunatics are willing to go. I know that Gettysburg is already removing confederate flag items. They must put credence in "nutjobs" which isn't really all that helpful.

The bookstore is not the museum:

CBS Philly reports the Gettysburg bookstore will continue to sell items that feature both the American and the Confederate flag, as long as the depiction is in proper “historical context,” but “will no longer sell items that use the battle flag as a stand-alone feature.”

The Gettysburg bookstore’s move is in response to a National Park Service request, wherein they asked “concessionaries” to quit selling the Confederate flag following the attack on Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in South Carolina.

Not sure why this would be considered a significant distinction in the context of the discussion, but ok.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Kid Rock To Confederate Flag Protesters: ‘Kiss My ###’

I'm confused, why does someone from Detroit care about the Confederate flag?

Because he wants to sell rednecks his albums?

 

[cstu]

Kid Rock To Confederate Flag Protesters: ‘Kiss My ###’

I'm confused, why does someone from Detroit care about the Confederate flag?

Kid Rock makes a living appealing to the ignorant "anti-PC" crowd. His son is half-black so I find it hypocritical but I guess money is more important to him.

 

[Amused to Death]

Kid Rock To Confederate Flag Protesters: ‘Kiss My ###’

I'm confused, why does someone from Detroit care about the Confederate flag?

Because he wants to sell rednecks his albums?

Exactly, he's a faux redneck pandering to a demographic.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Kid Rock To Confederate Flag Protesters: ‘Kiss My ###’

I'm confused, why does someone from Detroit care about the Confederate flag?

He's a #######

 

[Poncho]

Kid Rock To Confederate Flag Protesters: ‘Kiss My ###’

I'm confused, why does someone from Detroit care about the Confederate flag?

Good question! I think a lot of his fans are southern rock types but I am just guessing. So he is kissing hillbilly butt as far as I can tell....

 

[jonessed]

Washington (CNN)In an embarrassing setback for the Republican Party, which is trying to make inroads with minority voters, House Republican leaders abruptly yanked a spending bill off the floor after a blow up over the Confederate flag.

House members would have been voting on a proposal to allow the continued display of the flag at National Park Service cemeteries. The amendment was to be attached to the annual spending bill funding the Interior Department.

Democrats pounced on the political opening.

"Even in South Carolina today, where the Confederacy was born, that flag is being taken down from the state capitol grounds after both Republican-controlled houses of that state's assembly voted to remove it," said Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Maryland), the minority whip. "Certainly on this day we ought not to see a Republican-led Congress move in the opposite direction."

"You cannot go halfway -- you have to go the whole way," Lewis said when asked about Boehner's proposal to try to come up with a compromise, saying it was time for the flag to come down altogether "just do it - do the right thing."

IMO this is getting ridiculous. Are they next going to want to remove confederate headstones that have the confederate flag engraved in them?

It's a wedge issue for Democrats.

 

[Amused to Death]

Kid Rock To Confederate Flag Protesters: ‘Kiss My ###’

I'm confused, why does someone from Detroit care about the Confederate flag?

Well he does have a history with flags:

Kid Rock was involved in the halftime show controversy at Super Bowl XXXVIII in Houston, Texas on February 1, 2004. He was criticized by the Veterans of Foreign Wars for desecrating the American flag, by wearing one slit in the middle as a poncho.

 

[Mjolnirs]

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam.

You mean like the Fort Sumter National Monument removing the historical flags flying above the fort? eta - the Battle Flag was not one of them.You may have zero concern about these efforts picking up steam, but plenty of us have more than zero concern.

I have zero concern because I don't give a #### if we take down every Confederate flag that's flying on federal property everywhere and confine them solely to museums and similar displays. Fort Sumter is a bit of a gray area because I assume it's trying to replicate the actual physical appearance of the Fort at the time of the battle rather than just flying on a flagpole with no real context? If that's the case I don't mind it being displayed there. But really, who cares? What exactly am I supposed to be concerned about? Let me know when someone proposes removing it from museum displays or banning people from flying it on private property. Then I'll be concerned.

I don't care why you have zero concern, and I didn't ask. You said you have zero concern and I said I had more than zero, and I've explained why in here before.Fort Sumter displayed six flags:

The current US flag, the US flag as it existed when the war began, the South Carolina state flag, the First National flag of the CSA, the Second National flag of the CSA and the US flag as it existed at the end of the war. A completely appropriate historical display that was taken down.

Ft. Sumter flag display

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't care why you have zero concern, and I didn't ask. You said you have zero concern and I said I had more than zero, and I've explained why in here before.Fort Sumter displayed six flags:

The current US flag, the US flag as it existed when the war began, the South Carolina state flag, the First National flag of the CSA, the Second National flag of the CSA and the US flag as it existed at the end of the war. A completely appropriate historical display that was taken down.

Ft. Sumter flag display

Eh. I don't see why the confederate imagery can't fly behind glass in a display to clarify that it's being presented for historical purposes only and not advocacy or decorative or some other purpose. It's not like they're trying to replicate what the fort looked like/flew in 1861. Who cares if it's on a pole or not? Wouldn't you find it a little odd if you went to visit Aushwitz or Normandy and found Nazi imagery flying on a flagpole instead of in a display case?

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Washington (CNN)In an embarrassing setback for the Republican Party, which is trying to make inroads with minority voters, House Republican leaders abruptly yanked a spending bill off the floor after a blow up over the Confederate flag.

House members would have been voting on a proposal to allow the continued display of the flag at National Park Service cemeteries. The amendment was to be attached to the annual spending bill funding the Interior Department.

Democrats pounced on the political opening.

"Even in South Carolina today, where the Confederacy was born, that flag is being taken down from the state capitol grounds after both Republican-controlled houses of that state's assembly voted to remove it," said Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Maryland), the minority whip. "Certainly on this day we ought not to see a Republican-led Congress move in the opposite direction."

"You cannot go halfway -- you have to go the whole way," Lewis said when asked about Boehner's proposal to try to come up with a compromise, saying it was time for the flag to come down altogether "just do it - do the right thing."

IMO this is getting ridiculous. Are they next going to want to remove confederate headstones that have the confederate flag engraved in them?

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.

The bill would have permitted displays of the confederate flag in federal cemeteries. It had nothing to do with private property and what is or is not acceptable there. The property belongs to all of us collectively, and we all have a say in what happens there. That includes, for example, black families who probably don't want to be seeing symbols of slavery and segregation on their way to mourn their deceased loved ones. There are lots of regulations and restrictions concerning burials in federal cemeteries, so it's not like we're venturing into uncharted waters. If people don't wish to comply with those regulations they can have their loved ones buried elsewhere and do whatever they want with flags or headstones or anything else, so long as whoever owns that property is OK with it.

This is key IMO.

Yup, it is. And the bill was roundly ridiculed and then buried by our elected representatives, as it should have been. Case closed.

We'll see how far our official try and take this. IMO, it's as dangerous to attempt to eradicate it completely as it is to celebrate it. We'll see how far "political correctness" goes with this.

What in God's name are you talking about? Nothing is being "eradicated." The GOP tried to introduce a new measure to supersede newly adopted restrictions on displays in national cemeteries and on gift shop sales. It was bizarre both in the sense that the legislature rarely concerns itself with oversight of federal property to that level of detail as a general matter, and because the impetus for this unusual reach was protecting Confederate flags.

Nobody's eradicating anything. Nobody's trying to take anything anywhere. There's already a ton of things you can't do a grave site in a national cemetery, including leaving a candle, holding a vigil or religious service of any kind, use your own design of any kind for a headstone unless in a specially designated area, etc. We're not talking about a free exchange of ideas in an open public space here. It's about as tight a ship as you'll find, and people who don't want to comply with all that have plenty of other options for burial. You really think it's super-important that the one thing we decide to specifically protect in this restrictive environment is the confederate flag?

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

What nut jobs are you referring too? You can't conceive that the people offended by the flag may push more and more when they see the results they are getting and in return the politicians bowing to the pressure.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Washington (CNN)In an embarrassing setback for the Republican Party, which is trying to make inroads with minority voters, House Republican leaders abruptly yanked a spending bill off the floor after a blow up over the Confederate flag.

House members would have been voting on a proposal to allow the continued display of the flag at National Park Service cemeteries. The amendment was to be attached to the annual spending bill funding the Interior Department.

Democrats pounced on the political opening.

"Even in South Carolina today, where the Confederacy was born, that flag is being taken down from the state capitol grounds after both Republican-controlled houses of that state's assembly voted to remove it," said Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Maryland), the minority whip. "Certainly on this day we ought not to see a Republican-led Congress move in the opposite direction."

"You cannot go halfway -- you have to go the whole way," Lewis said when asked about Boehner's proposal to try to come up with a compromise, saying it was time for the flag to come down altogether "just do it - do the right thing."

IMO this is getting ridiculous. Are they next going to want to remove confederate headstones that have the confederate flag engraved in them?

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.

The bill would have permitted displays of the confederate flag in federal cemeteries. It had nothing to do with private property and what is or is not acceptable there. The property belongs to all of us collectively, and we all have a say in what happens there. That includes, for example, black families who probably don't want to be seeing symbols of slavery and segregation on their way to mourn their deceased loved ones. There are lots of regulations and restrictions concerning burials in federal cemeteries, so it's not like we're venturing into uncharted waters. If people don't wish to comply with those regulations they can have their loved ones buried elsewhere and do whatever they want with flags or headstones or anything else, so long as whoever owns that property is OK with it.

This is key IMO.

Yup, it is. And the bill was roundly ridiculed and then buried by our elected representatives, as it should have been. Case closed.

We'll see how far our official try and take this. IMO, it's as dangerous to attempt to eradicate it completely as it is to celebrate it. We'll see how far "political correctness" goes with this.

What in God's name are you talking about? Nothing is being "eradicated." The GOP tried to introduce a new measure to supersede newly adopted restrictions on displays in national cemeteries and on gift shop sales. It was bizarre both in the sense that the legislature rarely concerns itself with oversight of federal property to that level of detail as a general matter, and because the impetus for this unusual reach was protecting Confederate flags.

Nobody's eradicating anything. Nobody's trying to take anything anywhere. There's already a ton of things you can't do a grave site in a national cemetery, including leaving a candle, holding a vigil or religious service of any kind, use your own design of any kind for a headstone unless in a specially designated area, etc. We're not talking about a free exchange of ideas in an open public space here. It's about as tight a ship as you'll find, and people who don't want to comply with all that have plenty of other options for burial. You really think it's super-important that the one thing we decide to specifically protect in this restrictive environment is the confederate flag?

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

What nut jobs are you referring too? You can't conceive that the people offended by the flag may push more and more when they see the results they are getting and in return the politicians bowing to the pressure.

I don't know where else they would push. They can't ban its display on private property thanks to the First Amendment. I can't imagine it ever being removed from museum displays and the like. As long as those things are protected I'm happy to see it go.

 

[The Ref]

41 pages guys? Really?

 

[TobiasFunke]

41 pages guys? Really?

The thread is 8 years old and some variation on this story has been in the news pretty much every day for the last three weeks.

There's a five week old thread on Clash of Clans that's 421 pages long.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Washington (CNN)In an embarrassing setback for the Republican Party, which is trying to make inroads with minority voters, House Republican leaders abruptly yanked a spending bill off the floor after a blow up over the Confederate flag.

House members would have been voting on a proposal to allow the continued display of the flag at National Park Service cemeteries. The amendment was to be attached to the annual spending bill funding the Interior Department.

Democrats pounced on the political opening.

"Even in South Carolina today, where the Confederacy was born, that flag is being taken down from the state capitol grounds after both Republican-controlled houses of that state's assembly voted to remove it," said Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Maryland), the minority whip. "Certainly on this day we ought not to see a Republican-led Congress move in the opposite direction."

"You cannot go halfway -- you have to go the whole way," Lewis said when asked about Boehner's proposal to try to come up with a compromise, saying it was time for the flag to come down altogether "just do it - do the right thing."

IMO this is getting ridiculous. Are they next going to want to remove confederate headstones that have the confederate flag engraved in them?

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.

The bill would have permitted displays of the confederate flag in federal cemeteries. It had nothing to do with private property and what is or is not acceptable there. The property belongs to all of us collectively, and we all have a say in what happens there. That includes, for example, black families who probably don't want to be seeing symbols of slavery and segregation on their way to mourn their deceased loved ones. There are lots of regulations and restrictions concerning burials in federal cemeteries, so it's not like we're venturing into uncharted waters. If people don't wish to comply with those regulations they can have their loved ones buried elsewhere and do whatever they want with flags or headstones or anything else, so long as whoever owns that property is OK with it.

This is key IMO.

Yup, it is. And the bill was roundly ridiculed and then buried by our elected representatives, as it should have been. Case closed.

We'll see how far our official try and take this. IMO, it's as dangerous to attempt to eradicate it completely as it is to celebrate it. We'll see how far "political correctness" goes with this.

What in God's name are you talking about? Nothing is being "eradicated." The GOP tried to introduce a new measure to supersede newly adopted restrictions on displays in national cemeteries and on gift shop sales. It was bizarre both in the sense that the legislature rarely concerns itself with oversight of federal property to that level of detail as a general matter, and because the impetus for this unusual reach was protecting Confederate flags.

Nobody's eradicating anything. Nobody's trying to take anything anywhere. There's already a ton of things you can't do a grave site in a national cemetery, including leaving a candle, holding a vigil or religious service of any kind, use your own design of any kind for a headstone unless in a specially designated area, etc. We're not talking about a free exchange of ideas in an open public space here. It's about as tight a ship as you'll find, and people who don't want to comply with all that have plenty of other options for burial. You really think it's super-important that the one thing we decide to specifically protect in this restrictive environment is the confederate flag?

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

What nut jobs are you referring too? You can't conceive that the people offended by the flag may push more and more when they see the results they are getting and in return the politicians bowing to the pressure.

I don't know where else they would push. They can't ban its display on private property thanks to the First Amendment. I can't imagine it ever being removed from museum displays and the like. As long as those things are protected I'm happy to see it go.

Not Federal but I can see Stone Mountain being a target. Also I can conceive the Feds holding back $ to States that don't bow to pressures.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

41 pages guys? Really?

The thread is 8 years old and some variation on this story has been in the news pretty much every day for the last three weeks.

There's a five week old thread on Clash of Clans that's 421 pages long.

Also, you can instantly reduce this thread's page count by simply changing your settings to display a larger number of posts per page.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not Federal but I can see Stone Mountain being a target. Also I can conceive the Feds holding back $ to States that don't bow to pressures.

I'm totally fine with any state/local government deciding to take the flag down from any state/local property if that's what the people tell their elected officials they want. It's the people's collective property, they can do whatever they collectively choose to do with it.

And I'm also fine with the feds holding back funding from states that choose to display Confederate flags on state property. We condition federal funding on all kinds of weird things, if states don't like it they don't have to accept the funding. Hell, flying a flag of rebellion from the US government might be a better reason for the US government to withhold funding than most of the current exercises of that power.

 

[General Tso]

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

A lot of people up in arms about nothing. No one is looking to erase history, this is about a symbol of racism being celebrated on public property.

Right. It's not like companies are removing civil war games that feature the confederate flag, or tv shows where the flag appears on the top of a car, or calling for Confederate statues and monuments to be taken down, or board games taken off the shelves because the flag appears, or news anchors whispering on CNN about "maybe we need to have a conversation about the Jefferson Memorial because he owned slaves", or Louis Farakhan calling for the American flag to be taken down....Shall I go on?

I think we have seen more than enough slippery slopes to be legitimately concerned about it.

 

[Kal El]

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

A lot of people up in arms about nothing. No one is looking to erase history, this is about a symbol of racism being celebrated on public property.

Right. It's not like companies are removing civil war games that feature the confederate flag, or tv shows where the flag appears on the top of a car, or calling for Confederate statues and monuments to be taken down, or board games taken off the shelves because the flag appears, or news anchors whispering on CNN about "maybe we need to have a conversation about the Jefferson Memorial because he owned slaves", or Louis Farakhan calling for the American flag to be taken down....Shall I go on?

I think we have seen more than enough slippery slopes to be legitimately concerned about it.

The thing is, no matter what those who want to erase it try, the flag will still be there. It's an indelible part of our collective past, for good or bad, and try as they might, the flag won't go away.

I will say from an aesthetic standpoint, the flag itself is pretty neat looking. I actually have a full size one somewhere in a box that my dad had (I'm not sure where he got it, but I know it's not authentic, because of the shape it's in and the fact that our family fought on the Union side as part of a regiment from West Virginia), along with a small US flag and a Bahamas flag, but unless/until the flag gets a more positive symbolism, it'll stay in that box.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

A lot of people up in arms about nothing. No one is looking to erase history, this is about a symbol of racism being celebrated on public property.

Right. It's not like companies are removing civil war games that feature the confederate flag, or tv shows where the flag appears on the top of a car, or calling for Confederate statues and monuments to be taken down, or board games taken off the shelves because the flag appears, or news anchors whispering on CNN about "maybe we need to have a conversation about the Jefferson Memorial because he owned slaves", or Louis Farakhan calling for the American flag to be taken down....Shall I go on?

I think we have seen more than enough slippery slopes to be legitimately concerned about it.

Private companies making business decisions concerns you? What are you, some kind of fascist?

And congratulations on being perhaps the only person in America who takes Don Lemon and Louis Farrakhan seriously.

Taking down Confederate statues and monuments on public property is a reasonable point for discussion.

 

[Parrothead]

I call on congress to appoint a task force to investigate every public memorial, statue, and state flag and vet the person, persons, or image being memorialized or depicted and determine if they/ it are still worthy of our attention.. lest we not offend anyone anywhere!

 

[Kal El]

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

A lot of people up in arms about nothing. No one is looking to erase history, this is about a symbol of racism being celebrated on public property.

Right. It's not like companies are removing civil war games that feature the confederate flag, or tv shows where the flag appears on the top of a car, or calling for Confederate statues and monuments to be taken down, or board games taken off the shelves because the flag appears, or news anchors whispering on CNN about "maybe we need to have a conversation about the Jefferson Memorial because he owned slaves", or Louis Farakhan calling for the American flag to be taken down....Shall I go on?

I think we have seen more than enough slippery slopes to be legitimately concerned about it.

Private companies making business decisions concerns you? What are you, some kind of fascist?

And congratulations on being perhaps the only person in America who takes Don Lemon and Louis Farrakhan seriously.

Taking down Confederate statues and monuments on public property is a reasonable point for discussion.

I want the statues and monuments to stay, so we can be reminded of our history and learn from it.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

A lot of people up in arms about nothing. No one is looking to erase history, this is about a symbol of racism being celebrated on public property.

Right. It's not like companies are removing civil war games that feature the confederate flag, or tv shows where the flag appears on the top of a car, or calling for Confederate statues and monuments to be taken down, or board games taken off the shelves because the flag appears, or news anchors whispering on CNN about "maybe we need to have a conversation about the Jefferson Memorial because he owned slaves", or Louis Farakhan calling for the American flag to be taken down....Shall I go on?

I think we have seen more than enough slippery slopes to be legitimately concerned about it.

Private companies making business decisions concerns you? What are you, some kind of fascist?

And congratulations on being perhaps the only person in America who takes Don Lemon and Louis Farrakhan seriously.

Taking down Confederate statues and monuments on public property is a reasonable point for discussion.

I want the statues and monuments to stay, so we can be reminded of our history and learn from it.

It won't be long before history books in our public schools will have to have the confederate flag removed.

 

[matttyl]

IMO this is getting ridiculous. Are they next going to want to remove confederate headstones that have the confederate flag engraved in them?

How about a few stained glass windows at the National Cathedral?

 

[Amused to Death]

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

A lot of people up in arms about nothing. No one is looking to erase history, this is about a symbol of racism being celebrated on public property.

Right. It's not like companies are removing civil war games that feature the confederate flag, or tv shows where the flag appears on the top of a car, or calling for Confederate statues and monuments to be taken down, or board games taken off the shelves because the flag appears, or news anchors whispering on CNN about "maybe we need to have a conversation about the Jefferson Memorial because he owned slaves", or Louis Farakhan calling for the American flag to be taken down....Shall I go on?

I think we have seen more than enough slippery slopes to be legitimately concerned about it.

Private companies making business decisions concerns you? What are you, some kind of fascist?

And congratulations on being perhaps the only person in America who takes Don Lemon and Louis Farrakhan seriously.

Taking down Confederate statues and monuments on public property is a reasonable point for discussion.

I want the statues and monuments to stay, so we can be reminded of our history and learn from it.

It won't be long before history books in our public schools will have to have the confederate flag removed.

Like what southern states currently do with slavery?

 

[matttyl]

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

As I stated above, the National Cathedral.

 

[The Commish]

IMO this is getting ridiculous. Are they next going to want to remove confederate headstones that have the confederate flag engraved in them?

How about a few stained glass windows at the National Cathedral?

Funny thing would be removing the battle flag but leaving the CSA flags. I think that's what those other two are, right?

 

[The Commish]

Like what southern states currently do with slavery?

Is this one of those "events" where a crazy back woods school did it and thus extrapolated to "southern states"??

 

[TobiasFunke]

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

A lot of people up in arms about nothing. No one is looking to erase history, this is about a symbol of racism being celebrated on public property.

Right. It's not like companies are removing civil war games that feature the confederate flag, or tv shows where the flag appears on the top of a car, or calling for Confederate statues and monuments to be taken down, or board games taken off the shelves because the flag appears, or news anchors whispering on CNN about "maybe we need to have a conversation about the Jefferson Memorial because he owned slaves", or Louis Farakhan calling for the American flag to be taken down....Shall I go on?

I think we have seen more than enough slippery slopes to be legitimately concerned about it.

Private companies making business decisions concerns you? What are you, some kind of fascist?

And congratulations on being perhaps the only person in America who takes Don Lemon and Louis Farrakhan seriously.

Taking down Confederate statues and monuments on public property is a reasonable point for discussion.

I want the statues and monuments to stay, so we can be reminded of our history and learn from it.

That's fine. I personally disagree. We can be reminded of our history and learn from it through museums and relics just like every other country that has done something awful in its past. You don't see statues and monuments to Nazis in Germany or to the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. South Africa does seem to be waging a similar battle over statues of Apartheid types. So I guess that's the company you're keeping, southerners: a country that was segregated until 1994 is, 20 years later, getting around to doing what you haven't done in 150 years. Congratulations!

 

[Ditka Butkus]

IMO this is getting ridiculous. Are they next going to want to remove confederate headstones that have the confederate flag engraved in them?

How about a few stained glass windows at the National Cathedral?

It is getting kind of slippery on this slope.

 

[Kal El]

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

A lot of people up in arms about nothing. No one is looking to erase history, this is about a symbol of racism being celebrated on public property.

Right. It's not like companies are removing civil war games that feature the confederate flag, or tv shows where the flag appears on the top of a car, or calling for Confederate statues and monuments to be taken down, or board games taken off the shelves because the flag appears, or news anchors whispering on CNN about "maybe we need to have a conversation about the Jefferson Memorial because he owned slaves", or Louis Farakhan calling for the American flag to be taken down....Shall I go on?

I think we have seen more than enough slippery slopes to be legitimately concerned about it.

Private companies making business decisions concerns you? What are you, some kind of fascist?

And congratulations on being perhaps the only person in America who takes Don Lemon and Louis Farrakhan seriously.

Taking down Confederate statues and monuments on public property is a reasonable point for discussion.

I want the statues and monuments to stay, so we can be reminded of our history and learn from it.

It won't be long before history books in our public schools will have to have the confederate flag removed.

Then that's doing a disservice to our students.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

As I stated above, the National Cathedral.

Good

 

[Amused to Death]

Like what southern states currently do with slavery?

Is this one of those "events" where a crazy back woods school did it and thus extrapolated to "southern states"??

Crazy yeah, but its the Texas Board of Education minimizing the effect of slavery in the Civil war and ignoring the history of the KKK in the south.

 

[matttyl]

IMO, what is going on is a national re-evaluation of the Lost Cause. It only took 150 years for the South to begin moving on from it's white-supremist past, but I'm glad it's finally happening. It's not done yet by any means, but within 20 years the folks claiming the Southern Cross is a symbol of heritage, and referring to the "War of Northern Aggression" and all that will be a distinct minority.

I know the flag is just a piece of cloth, and taking it down isn't solving anything...I get that. However, I do think it's worth celebrating the fact that the state of South Carolina is finally ready to move past it's segregationist past.

The constellation, or the Crosby, Stills and Nash song? Can't wait till people starting thinking the song is racist.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

A lot of people up in arms about nothing. No one is looking to erase history, this is about a symbol of racism being celebrated on public property.

Right. It's not like companies are removing civil war games that feature the confederate flag, or tv shows where the flag appears on the top of a car, or calling for Confederate statues and monuments to be taken down, or board games taken off the shelves because the flag appears, or news anchors whispering on CNN about "maybe we need to have a conversation about the Jefferson Memorial because he owned slaves", or Louis Farakhan calling for the American flag to be taken down....Shall I go on?

I think we have seen more than enough slippery slopes to be legitimately concerned about it.

Private companies making business decisions concerns you? What are you, some kind of fascist?

And congratulations on being perhaps the only person in America who takes Don Lemon and Louis Farrakhan seriously.

Taking down Confederate statues and monuments on public property is a reasonable point for discussion.

I want the statues and monuments to stay, so we can be reminded of our history and learn from it.

It won't be long before history books in our public schools will have to have the confederate flag removed.

I doubt that.

 

[TobiasFunke]

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

As I stated above, the National Cathedral.

A window in the National Cathedral is not what I meant by a museum exhibit or historical site. Its a display in a church, one that hosts services and concerts on a regular basis. I meant stuff telling the story of the Civil War, recording the existence of the Confederacy and its symbols for posterity and education. I don't see any reason to keep it up anywhere else.

 

[Kal El]

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

As I stated above, the National Cathedral.

A window in the National Cathedral is not what I meant by a museum exhibit or historical site. Its a display in a church, one that hosts services and concerts on a regular basis. I meant stuff telling the story of the Civil War, recording the existence of the Confederacy and its symbols for posterity and education. I don't see any reason to keep it up anywhere else.

What about at battle sites? Thousands of men died at those places for both sides, I think it's important to remember why they died at the site.

 

[The Commish]

Like what southern states currently do with slavery?

Is this one of those "events" where a crazy back woods school did it and thus extrapolated to "southern states"??

Crazy yeah, but its the Texas Board of Education minimizing the effect of slavery in the Civil war and ignoring the history of the KKK in the south.

It's probably best (and more productive) to call Texas out for it then, rather than generalizing it with "southern states". I'm not sure Texas is even in "the south"

 

[The Commish]

IMO, what is going on is a national re-evaluation of the Lost Cause. It only took 150 years for the South to begin moving on from it's white-supremist past, but I'm glad it's finally happening. It's not done yet by any means, but within 20 years the folks claiming the Southern Cross is a symbol of heritage, and referring to the "War of Northern Aggression" and all that will be a distinct minority.

I know the flag is just a piece of cloth, and taking it down isn't solving anything...I get that. However, I do think it's worth celebrating the fact that the state of South Carolina is finally ready to move past it's segregationist past.

The constellation, or the Crosby, Stills and Nash song? Can't wait till people starting thinking the song is racist.

Buffett was the first that came to mind, but this had crossed my mind as well. Will be interesting.

 

[General Tso]

I didn't say this action was an attempt to eradicate anything I was talking about the future and wondering out loud how far this was going to go. I think the talk about removing the flag from national historic sites like Gettysburg is an example of where this could go. You don't like the word eradicate, fine. Use whatever words/phrases you want to describe the removal of historic symbols from historic sites.

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

A lot of people up in arms about nothing. No one is looking to erase history, this is about a symbol of racism being celebrated on public property.

Right. It's not like companies are removing civil war games that feature the confederate flag, or tv shows where the flag appears on the top of a car, or calling for Confederate statues and monuments to be taken down, or board games taken off the shelves because the flag appears, or news anchors whispering on CNN about "maybe we need to have a conversation about the Jefferson Memorial because he owned slaves", or Louis Farakhan calling for the American flag to be taken down....Shall I go on?

I think we have seen more than enough slippery slopes to be legitimately concerned about it.

Private companies making business decisions concerns you? What are you, some kind of fascist?

And congratulations on being perhaps the only person in America who takes Don Lemon and Louis Farrakhan seriously.

Taking down Confederate statues and monuments on public property is a reasonable point for discussion.

Right - crazy of me to take seriously the leading news anchor on CNN and the leader of the Nation of Islam. Do you ever hear yourself talking, Tobias? These aren't two ancillary, unknown figures. They are two of the most recognizable black leaders in America. You can make a lot better arguments about slippery slopes rarely materializing, etc. But to dismiss Don Lemon and Louis Farakhan as influential voices is just absurd.I agree with you on the Confederate statues piece. As to the actions of private companies that most people in here agree are dumb, knee jerk PC over-reactions, not sure how you'd call people voicing their displeasure on such idiotic reactions as "fascism". But if it gives a chance to lob another unnecessary insult at someone, then go for it. Seems to be your M.O.

 

[Amused to Death]

Like what southern states currently do with slavery?

Is this one of those "events" where a crazy back woods school did it and thus extrapolated to "southern states"??

Crazy yeah, but its the Texas Board of Education minimizing the effect of slavery in the Civil war and ignoring the history of the KKK in the south.

It's probably best (and more productive) to call Texas out for it then, rather than generalizing it with "southern states". I'm not sure Texas is even in "the south"

There was a poster in this thread that described similar things in Georgia (his personal experience). Maybe they're the only 2.

 

[The Commish]

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

As I stated above, the National Cathedral.

A window in the National Cathedral is not what I meant by a museum exhibit or historical site. Its a display in a church, one that hosts services and concerts on a regular basis. I meant stuff telling the story of the Civil War, recording the existence of the Confederacy and its symbols for posterity and education. I don't see any reason to keep it up anywhere else.

What about at battle sites? Thousands of men died at those places for both sides, I think it's important to remember why they died at the site.

If I'm reading correctly, it's not a problem if it's being removed from the gift shops of those sites.

 

[Kal El]

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

As I stated above, the National Cathedral.

A window in the National Cathedral is not what I meant by a museum exhibit or historical site. Its a display in a church, one that hosts services and concerts on a regular basis. I meant stuff telling the story of the Civil War, recording the existence of the Confederacy and its symbols for posterity and education. I don't see any reason to keep it up anywhere else.

What about at battle sites? Thousands of men died at those places for both sides, I think it's important to remember why they died at the site.

If I'm reading correctly, it's not a problem if it's being removed from the gift shops of those sites.

That's probably for the best at least if they're being sold on their own. If they're part of some type of set piece, I think they should stay.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

I want the American flag removed from federal sites as my Native American Indian ancestors were slaughtered by US Calvary.

 

[TobiasFunke]

So you're concerned about a slippery slope? I think we can handle this one. I haven't seen a single person suggest the flag should be removed from historical displays like museum exhibits or historical sites. Maybe there's a handful of nutjobs out there demanding it, but I have zero concern about that kind of effort picking up steam. We display far worse things than Confederate flags in historical displays on federal property.

As I stated above, the National Cathedral.

A window in the National Cathedral is not what I meant by a museum exhibit or historical site. Its a display in a church, one that hosts services and concerts on a regular basis. I meant stuff telling the story of the Civil War, recording the existence of the Confederacy and its symbols for posterity and education. I don't see any reason to keep it up anywhere else.

What about at battle sites? Thousands of men died at those places for both sides, I think it's important to remember why they died at the site.

Depends how they're displayed, I guess. In a visitor center, sure. In a way that honors the dead? I don't really think that's necessary. You see any swastikas here? Do you think there should be some?

 

[The Commish]

I want the American flag removed from federal sites as my Native American Indian ancestors were slaughtered by US Calvary.

Cavalry.