What does the confederate flag mean to you? (5 Viewers)

[TheIronSheik]

But it is a symbol, can we stick with the topic.I don't know why you seem to always take a topic then try and use some "what if" scenerio that has nothing to do with it.I love how you try to compare the symbol of slavery, a truely awful period in this country with a red shirt. You're not only a class act but one of the most brilliant people I have even come across. Your mother I bet is proud of you.

It's true. My mom brags about me to everyone. Sometimes, I feel like I have a Jewish mother, she brags so much. And then hate fills my blood because Jewish people piss me off. But I digress. Sorry. I do that sometimes. I don't think I've had a "what if" statement yet. I could be wrong. And I'm sorry you're missing my point. I'll try and be clear this time:1) The Confederate Army flew the Confederate Flag.2) The CA did not fight the war based on whether slavery was right or wrong.3) Both the north and south had slaves.4) The Civil War had the most casualties out of any other war in our history.5) Even though we were at war with the south, they were still our brothers.6) Honoring your fallen brothers or having pride in your heritage does not make you racist.The Confederate States of America were not fighting a war to keep slavery. Hell, half the states that fought on this side did so because they opposed the US government's call up of troops. So if people who think the South fought the Civil War based on slavery and see the flag as a symbol of slavery are offended, my response is, "Go read a history book."

 

[TheIronSheik]

Please explain how that flag is less racist than the Confederate flag? Both were flown on battlefields during the Civil War, which was as everyone knows, the war based totally on whether slavery was right or wrong.

The origins of the American Civil War lay in the complex issues of party politics, competing understandings of federalism, slavery, expansionism, sectionalism, economics, and modernization in the Antebellum period.

Whatever, dude. It was fought because a bunch of racists and non racists didn't see eye to eye on the owning of black people. Plain and simple.

 

[RKMoney]

Actually zero, I still dont see black people hanging flags on their front porch or as a sticker on the back of their pickup truck.

You asked:

How many black people in this country do you see that has a confed flag?

So I provide you with link that shows the answer is greater than zero. While I agree that the number is very very small, I have shown you as per your question that it is greater than zero. Whenever I see or read about a black person that embraces the Confederate flag I am pleasantly surprised. It is alway good to learn that someone new has looked into the issue and has made their own conclusion as opposed to being told what they should think.

I don't see any flags on someone's yard or sticker on the back of their truck. I see some old photo's that doesn't mean anything honestly. Let's talk about present time shall we not a few old photos that shows black pople in uniform with a flag in the background then pass it off as nothing has changed from then to now.

I don't see the words "yard", "sticker" or "truck" in your original question. I see "How many black people in this country do you see that has a confed flag?"By the way, did you scroll down the page? Those color pictures look fairly recent.

and that link showed nothing that answered my question. Please quit fishing

 

[H.K.]

Please explain how that flag is less racist than the Confederate flag? Both were flown on battlefields during the Civil War, which was as everyone knows, the war based totally on whether slavery was right or wrong.

The origins of the American Civil War lay in the complex issues of party politics, competing understandings of federalism, slavery, expansionism, sectionalism, economics, and modernization in the Antebellum period.

Whatever, dude. It was fought because a bunch of racists and non racists didn't see eye to eye on the owning of black people. Plain and simple.

Sorry, I missed your sarcasm earlier.

 

[RKMoney]

But it is a symbol, can we stick with the topic.

I don't know why you seem to always take a topic then try and use some "what if" scenerio that has nothing to do with it.

I love how you try to compare the symbol of slavery, a truely awful period in this country with a red shirt. You're not only a class act but one of the most brilliant people I have even come across. Your mother I bet is proud of you.

It's true. My mom brags about me to everyone. Sometimes, I feel like I have a Jewish mother, she brags so much. And then hate fills my blood because Jewish people piss me off.

But I digress. Sorry. I do that sometimes.

I don't think I've had a "what if" statement yet. I could be wrong. And I'm sorry you're missing my point. I'll try and be clear this time:

1) The Confederate Army flew the Confederate Flag.

2) The CA did not fight the war based on whether slavery was right or wrong.

3) Both the north and south had slaves.

4) The Civil War had the most casualties out of any other war in our history.

5) Even though we were at war with the south, they were still our brothers.

6) Honoring your fallen brothers or having pride in your heritage does not make you racist.

The Confederate States of America were not fighting a war to keep slavery. Hell, half the states that fought on this side did so because they opposed the US government's call up of troops. So if people who think the South fought the Civil War based on slavery and see the flag as a symbol of slavery are offended, my response is, "Go read a history book."

A. Do you honestly think you are funny? I've always wanted to ask you that.B. You do know that in every post you always try to say something funny but it's actually pretty sad because it shows that you can't show your real emotion instead you must mask it with "humor".

Anyways, I never missed any point (except trying to figure out why some of the stuff you said was trying to be funny or not) you were confused about something and I answered your question you either have a case of the fishing or ADD or most likely a bit of the both.

 

[redman]

A. Do you honestly think you are funny? I've always wanted to ask you that.B. You do know that in every post you always try to say something funny but it's actually pretty sad because it shows that you can't show your real emotion instead you must mask it with "humor".Anyways, I never missed any point (except trying to figure out why some of the stuff you said was trying to be funny or not) you were confused about something and I answered your question you either have a case of the fishing or ADD or most likely a bit of the both.

q

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

But it is a symbol, can we stick with the topic.I don't know why you seem to always take a topic then try and use some "what if" scenerio that has nothing to do with it.I love how you try to compare the symbol of slavery, a truely awful period in this country with a red shirt. You're not only a class act but one of the most brilliant people I have even come across. Your mother I bet is proud of you.

It's true. My mom brags about me to everyone. Sometimes, I feel like I have a Jewish mother, she brags so much. And then hate fills my blood because Jewish people piss me off. But I digress. Sorry. I do that sometimes. I don't think I've had a "what if" statement yet. I could be wrong. And I'm sorry you're missing my point. I'll try and be clear this time:1) The Confederate Army flew the Confederate Flag.2) The CA did not fight the war based on whether slavery was right or wrong.3) Both the north and south had slaves.4) The Civil War had the most casualties out of any other war in our history.5) Even though we were at war with the south, they were still our brothers.6) Honoring your fallen brothers or having pride in your heritage does not make you racist.The Confederate States of America were not fighting a war to keep slavery. Hell, half the states that fought on this side did so because they opposed the US government's call up of troops. So if people who think the South fought the Civil War based on slavery and see the flag as a symbol of slavery are offended, my response is, "Go read a history book."

you forgot # 7, which was multiple generations of racist rednecks and KKK members using the flag as their symbol as they burned crosses and hated, spat at and lynched black people. That probably stands out in peoples mind a little more than a war, a war that no one who posts here ever talked to anyone who was a part of it ... we're at least 3 or 4 generations removed. Ask how many black people here who have parents and grandparents who were alive in the south 40-50 years ago about thie associations with the Confederate Flag. They can tell you. You can look at it logically, but erasing the racial stigma associated with the flag is not anywhere near as easy as "reading a history book". In fact, in my opnion it's damn near impossible.edit for clarity/grammar

 

[redman]

But it is a symbol, can we stick with the topic.I don't know why you seem to always take a topic then try and use some "what if" scenerio that has nothing to do with it.I love how you try to compare the symbol of slavery, a truely awful period in this country with a red shirt. You're not only a class act but one of the most brilliant people I have even come across. Your mother I bet is proud of you.

It's true. My mom brags about me to everyone. Sometimes, I feel like I have a Jewish mother, she brags so much. And then hate fills my blood because Jewish people piss me off. But I digress. Sorry. I do that sometimes. I don't think I've had a "what if" statement yet. I could be wrong. And I'm sorry you're missing my point. I'll try and be clear this time:1) The Confederate Army flew the Confederate Flag.2) The CA did not fight the war based on whether slavery was right or wrong.3) Both the north and south had slaves.4) The Civil War had the most casualties out of any other war in our history.5) Even though we were at war with the south, they were still our brothers.6) Honoring your fallen brothers or having pride in your heritage does not make you racist.The Confederate States of America were not fighting a war to keep slavery. Hell, half the states that fought on this side did so because they opposed the US government's call up of troops. So if people who think the South fought the Civil War based on slavery and see the flag as a symbol of slavery are offended, my response is, "Go read a history book."

you forgot # 7, which was multiple generations of racist rednecks and KKK members using the flag as their symbol as they burned crosses and hated, spat at and lynched black people. That probably stands out in peoples mind a little more than a war, a war that no one who posts here ever talked to anyone who was a part of it ... we're at least 3 or 4 generations removed. Ask how many black people here who have parents and grandparents who were alive in the south 40-50 years ago about thie associations with the Confederate Flag. They can tell you. You can look at it logically, but erasing the racial stigma associated with the flag is not anywhere near as easy as "reading a history book". In fact, in my opnion it's damn near impossible.edit for clarity/grammar

As some of us have been discussing in this thread, characterizing the flag as "racist" represents a very shallow understanding of the history of this country and the reasons for secession and the foundation of the Confederacy. I don't have the flag anywhere in my possession, and I recognize the problems that would arise for me if I were to display it even were I inclined to do so, but just because certain folks take offense at it, it doesn't mean that their interpretation of its meaning is somehow valid. Indeed, as with so many symbols the emotions of some regarding the perceived meaning seems to have replaced any basis in fact.

 

[TheIronSheik]

But it is a symbol, can we stick with the topic.

I don't know why you seem to always take a topic then try and use some "what if" scenerio that has nothing to do with it.

I love how you try to compare the symbol of slavery, a truely awful period in this country with a red shirt. You're not only a class act but one of the most brilliant people I have even come across. Your mother I bet is proud of you.

It's true. My mom brags about me to everyone. Sometimes, I feel like I have a Jewish mother, she brags so much. And then hate fills my blood because Jewish people piss me off.

But I digress. Sorry. I do that sometimes.

I don't think I've had a "what if" statement yet. I could be wrong. And I'm sorry you're missing my point. I'll try and be clear this time:

1) The Confederate Army flew the Confederate Flag.

2) The CA did not fight the war based on whether slavery was right or wrong.

3) Both the north and south had slaves.

4) The Civil War had the most casualties out of any other war in our history.

5) Even though we were at war with the south, they were still our brothers.

6) Honoring your fallen brothers or having pride in your heritage does not make you racist.

The Confederate States of America were not fighting a war to keep slavery. Hell, half the states that fought on this side did so because they opposed the US government's call up of troops. So if people who think the South fought the Civil War based on slavery and see the flag as a symbol of slavery are offended, my response is, "Go read a history book."

A. Do you honestly think you are funny? I've always wanted to ask you that.B. You do know that in every post you always try to say something funny but it's actually pretty sad because it shows that you can't show your real emotion instead you must mask it with "humor".

Anyways, I never missed any point (except trying to figure out why some of the stuff you said was trying to be funny or not) you were confused about something and I answered your question you either have a case of the fishing or ADD or most likely a bit of the both.

A. No. I've been told by numerous people I'm not funny at all. I tend to believe what others tell me at face value.B. I can't show my real emotion? You mean like you show your anger when you post?

And, yes, you did miss the point. I do not own a Confederate flag. And I am not from the south. When I came to this country I lived in Philadelphia, so my hands on learning is mostly North biased.

My point was that you can fly a Confederate flag without being a racist. Plain and simple. I'm fairly sure you argued that you couldn't.

 

[redman]

A. No. I've been told by numerous people I'm not funny at all. I tend to believe what others tell me at face value.B. I can't show my real emotion? You mean like you show your anger when you post? And, yes, you did miss the point. I do not own a Confederate flag. And I am not from the south. When I came to this country I lived in Philadelphia, so my hands on learning is mostly North biased.My point was that you can fly a Confederate flag without being a racist. Plain and simple. I'm fairly sure you argued that you couldn't.

This wasn't funny, FYI.

 

[TheIronSheik]

But it is a symbol, can we stick with the topic.I don't know why you seem to always take a topic then try and use some "what if" scenerio that has nothing to do with it.I love how you try to compare the symbol of slavery, a truely awful period in this country with a red shirt. You're not only a class act but one of the most brilliant people I have even come across. Your mother I bet is proud of you.

It's true. My mom brags about me to everyone. Sometimes, I feel like I have a Jewish mother, she brags so much. And then hate fills my blood because Jewish people piss me off. But I digress. Sorry. I do that sometimes. I don't think I've had a "what if" statement yet. I could be wrong. And I'm sorry you're missing my point. I'll try and be clear this time:1) The Confederate Army flew the Confederate Flag.2) The CA did not fight the war based on whether slavery was right or wrong.3) Both the north and south had slaves.4) The Civil War had the most casualties out of any other war in our history.5) Even though we were at war with the south, they were still our brothers.6) Honoring your fallen brothers or having pride in your heritage does not make you racist.The Confederate States of America were not fighting a war to keep slavery. Hell, half the states that fought on this side did so because they opposed the US government's call up of troops. So if people who think the South fought the Civil War based on slavery and see the flag as a symbol of slavery are offended, my response is, "Go read a history book."

you forgot # 7, which was multiple generations of racist rednecks and KKK members using the flag as their symbol as they burned crosses and hated, spat at and lynched black people. That probably stands out in peoples mind a little more than a war, a war that no one who posts here ever talked to anyone who was a part of it ... we're at least 3 or 4 generations removed. Ask how many black people here who have parents and grandparents who were alive in the south 40-50 years ago about thie associations with the Confederate Flag. They can tell you. You can look at it logically, but erasing the racial stigma associated with the flag is not anywhere near as easy as "reading a history book". In fact, in my opnion it's damn near impossible.edit for clarity/grammar

ACP, I understand that totally. But just because a bunch of idiots use your once proud symbol as their racist symbol, doesn't turn you into a racist. If the KKK started flying the Stars and Stripes as their symbol of ethnic cleansing, would we be forced to adopt a new flag because ours now symbolized intolerance?

 

[TheIronSheik]

A. No. I've been told by numerous people I'm not funny at all. I tend to believe what others tell me at face value.B. I can't show my real emotion? You mean like you show your anger when you post? And, yes, you did miss the point. I do not own a Confederate flag. And I am not from the south. When I came to this country I lived in Philadelphia, so my hands on learning is mostly North biased.My point was that you can fly a Confederate flag without being a racist. Plain and simple. I'm fairly sure you argued that you couldn't.

This wasn't funny, FYI.

I don't claim to be funny.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Characterizing the flag as "racist" represents a very shallow understanding of the history of this country and the reasons for secession and the foundation of the Confederacy.

What the flag stood for then does not matter to me. It was hijacked. What is has come to mean has no correlation with my knowledge of American History. If it makes you feel better to call me stupid, knock yourself out.

just because certain folks take offense at it, it doesn't mean that their interpretation of its meaning is somehow valid

It's just as valid as yours.

 

[redman]

Characterizing the flag as "racist" represents a very shallow understanding of the history of this country and the reasons for secession and the foundation of the Confederacy.

What the flag stood for then does not matter to me. It was hijacked. What is has come to mean has no correlation with my knowledge of American History. If it makes you feel better to call me stupid, knock yourself out.

just because certain folks take offense at it, it doesn't mean that their interpretation of its meaning is somehow valid

It's just as valid as yours.

Ah yes, the "feelings" argument.

 

[redman]

A. No. I've been told by numerous people I'm not funny at all. I tend to believe what others tell me at face value.B. I can't show my real emotion? You mean like you show your anger when you post? And, yes, you did miss the point. I do not own a Confederate flag. And I am not from the south. When I came to this country I lived in Philadelphia, so my hands on learning is mostly North biased.My point was that you can fly a Confederate flag without being a racist. Plain and simple. I'm fairly sure you argued that you couldn't.

This wasn't funny, FYI.

I don't claim to be funny.

That's not funny either. Stop it.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

But it is a symbol, can we stick with the topic.I don't know why you seem to always take a topic then try and use some "what if" scenerio that has nothing to do with it.I love how you try to compare the symbol of slavery, a truely awful period in this country with a red shirt. You're not only a class act but one of the most brilliant people I have even come across. Your mother I bet is proud of you.

It's true. My mom brags about me to everyone. Sometimes, I feel like I have a Jewish mother, she brags so much. And then hate fills my blood because Jewish people piss me off. But I digress. Sorry. I do that sometimes. I don't think I've had a "what if" statement yet. I could be wrong. And I'm sorry you're missing my point. I'll try and be clear this time:1) The Confederate Army flew the Confederate Flag.2) The CA did not fight the war based on whether slavery was right or wrong.3) Both the north and south had slaves.4) The Civil War had the most casualties out of any other war in our history.5) Even though we were at war with the south, they were still our brothers.6) Honoring your fallen brothers or having pride in your heritage does not make you racist.The Confederate States of America were not fighting a war to keep slavery. Hell, half the states that fought on this side did so because they opposed the US government's call up of troops. So if people who think the South fought the Civil War based on slavery and see the flag as a symbol of slavery are offended, my response is, "Go read a history book."

you forgot # 7, which was multiple generations of racist rednecks and KKK members using the flag as their symbol as they burned crosses and hated, spat at and lynched black people. That probably stands out in peoples mind a little more than a war, a war that no one who posts here ever talked to anyone who was a part of it ... we're at least 3 or 4 generations removed. Ask how many black people here who have parents and grandparents who were alive in the south 40-50 years ago about thie associations with the Confederate Flag. They can tell you. You can look at it logically, but erasing the racial stigma associated with the flag is not anywhere near as easy as "reading a history book". In fact, in my opnion it's damn near impossible.edit for clarity/grammar

ACP, I understand that totally. But just because a bunch of idiots use your once proud symbol as their racist symbol, doesn't turn you into a racist. If the KKK started flying the Stars and Stripes as their symbol of ethnic cleansing, would we be forced to adopt a new flag because ours now symbolized intolerance?

In your scenario -- There would be an UPROAR from anyone who loves this country. It would be made clear, in no uncertain terms, that no one approved of what a tiny fringe group was doing with this symbol. The Southern Pride people who wanted nothing to do with the racist association, did not do this (edit -- or did not do ENOUGH to make the distinction). I would put forth that the overlap of Confed. flag wavers and flat out racists Is a pretty large shaded area in that particular Venn Diagram.

 

[redman]

But it is a symbol, can we stick with the topic.

I don't know why you seem to always take a topic then try and use some "what if" scenerio that has nothing to do with it.

I love how you try to compare the symbol of slavery, a truely awful period in this country with a red shirt. You're not only a class act but one of the most brilliant people I have even come across. Your mother I bet is proud of you.

It's true. My mom brags about me to everyone. Sometimes, I feel like I have a Jewish mother, she brags so much. And then hate fills my blood because Jewish people piss me off. But I digress. Sorry. I do that sometimes.

I don't think I've had a "what if" statement yet. I could be wrong. And I'm sorry you're missing my point. I'll try and be clear this time:

1) The Confederate Army flew the Confederate Flag.

2) The CA did not fight the war based on whether slavery was right or wrong.

3) Both the north and south had slaves.

4) The Civil War had the most casualties out of any other war in our history.

5) Even though we were at war with the south, they were still our brothers.

6) Honoring your fallen brothers or having pride in your heritage does not make you racist.

The Confederate States of America were not fighting a war to keep slavery. Hell, half the states that fought on this side did so because they opposed the US government's call up of troops. So if people who think the South fought the Civil War based on slavery and see the flag as a symbol of slavery are offended, my response is, "Go read a history book."

you forgot # 7, which was multiple generations of racist rednecks and KKK members using the flag as their symbol as they burned crosses and hated, spat at and lynched black people. That probably stands out in peoples mind a little more than a war, a war that no one who posts here ever talked to anyone who was a part of it ... we're at least 3 or 4 generations removed. Ask how many black people here who have parents and grandparents who were alive in the south 40-50 years ago about thie associations with the Confederate Flag. They can tell you. You can look at it logically, but erasing the racial stigma associated with the flag is not anywhere near as easy as "reading a history book". In fact, in my opnion it's damn near impossible.

edit for clarity/grammar

ACP, I understand that totally. But just because a bunch of idiots use your once proud symbol as their racist symbol, doesn't turn you into a racist. If the KKK started flying the Stars and Stripes as their symbol of ethnic cleansing, would we be forced to adopt a new flag because ours now symbolized intolerance?

In your scenario -- There would be an UPROAR from anyone who loves this country. It would be made clear, in no uncertain terms, that no one approved of what a tiny fringe group was doing with this symbol. The Southern Pride people who wanted nothing to do with the racist association, did not do this (edit -- or did not do ENOUGH to make the distinction). I would put forth that the overlap of Confed. flag wavers and flat out racists Is a pretty large shaded area in that particular Venn Diagram.

. . .

 

[RoarinSonoran]

Question:How many black people in this country do you see that has a confed flag?Same question regarding Jewish people that has a swastika flag or metal.

Probably about the same number of blacks who don't think that the Emancipation Proclamation freed the slaves. (it didn't)

 

[RoarinSonoran]

The idea that the flag is largely about proud Southern heritage that somehow doesn't include slavery is pretty ridiculous.

Many southerners didn't own slaves, so yes, it was about southern pride.

 

[TheIronSheik]

But it is a symbol, can we stick with the topic.I don't know why you seem to always take a topic then try and use some "what if" scenerio that has nothing to do with it.I love how you try to compare the symbol of slavery, a truely awful period in this country with a red shirt. You're not only a class act but one of the most brilliant people I have even come across. Your mother I bet is proud of you.

It's true. My mom brags about me to everyone. Sometimes, I feel like I have a Jewish mother, she brags so much. And then hate fills my blood because Jewish people piss me off. But I digress. Sorry. I do that sometimes. I don't think I've had a "what if" statement yet. I could be wrong. And I'm sorry you're missing my point. I'll try and be clear this time:1) The Confederate Army flew the Confederate Flag.2) The CA did not fight the war based on whether slavery was right or wrong.3) Both the north and south had slaves.4) The Civil War had the most casualties out of any other war in our history.5) Even though we were at war with the south, they were still our brothers.6) Honoring your fallen brothers or having pride in your heritage does not make you racist.The Confederate States of America were not fighting a war to keep slavery. Hell, half the states that fought on this side did so because they opposed the US government's call up of troops. So if people who think the South fought the Civil War based on slavery and see the flag as a symbol of slavery are offended, my response is, "Go read a history book."

you forgot # 7, which was multiple generations of racist rednecks and KKK members using the flag as their symbol as they burned crosses and hated, spat at and lynched black people. That probably stands out in peoples mind a little more than a war, a war that no one who posts here ever talked to anyone who was a part of it ... we're at least 3 or 4 generations removed. Ask how many black people here who have parents and grandparents who were alive in the south 40-50 years ago about thie associations with the Confederate Flag. They can tell you. You can look at it logically, but erasing the racial stigma associated with the flag is not anywhere near as easy as "reading a history book". In fact, in my opnion it's damn near impossible.edit for clarity/grammar

ACP, I understand that totally. But just because a bunch of idiots use your once proud symbol as their racist symbol, doesn't turn you into a racist. If the KKK started flying the Stars and Stripes as their symbol of ethnic cleansing, would we be forced to adopt a new flag because ours now symbolized intolerance?

In your scenario -- There would be an UPROAR from anyone who loves this country. It would be made clear, in no uncertain terms, that no one approved of what a tiny fringe group was doing with this symbol. The Southern Pride people who wanted nothing to do with the racist association, did not do this (edit -- or did not do ENOUGH to make the distinction). I would put forth that the overlap of Confed. flag wavers and flat out racists Is a pretty large shaded area in that particular Venn Diagram.

I can't speak for the southerners of back then, so I won't. But I still see no reason someone has to be labeled a racist for flying this flag. Up until a couple years back, with the whole SC state flag issue, I didn't even know it was a problem. As someone jokingly mentioned early on, when I saw the Confederate flag, I thought of the Duke boys. In America, people have a right to their views. And, sadly, many things in this world that one person sees as a symbol for A, another person sees as a symbol for B. Is one more right than the other for their views? No. If someone flying the flag is a racist, then they're an idiot who should be dealt with for thier racist views. If someone flying the flag is a good person who loves all people, then that person should be treated that way. Don't judge someone based on the color of their skin, what they wear, or what flag they fly. Am I wrong for thinking that?

 

[RoarinSonoran]

you forgot # 7, which was multiple generations of racist rednecks and KKK members using the flag as their symbol as they burned crosses and hated, spat at and lynched black people. That probably stands out in peoples mind a little more than a war, a war that no one who posts here ever talked to anyone who was a part of it ... we're at least 3 or 4 generations removed. Ask how many black people here who have parents and grandparents who were alive in the south 40-50 years ago about thie associations with the Confederate Flag. They can tell you.

ACP, I understand that totally. But just because a bunch of idiots use your once proud symbol as their racist symbol, doesn't turn you into a racist. If the KKK started flying the Stars and Stripes as their symbol of ethnic cleansing, would we be forced to adopt a new flag because ours now symbolized intolerance?

In your scenario -- There would be an UPROAR from anyone who loves this country. It would be made clear, in no uncertain terms, that no one approved of what a tiny fringe group was doing with this symbol. The Southern Pride people who wanted nothing to do with the racist association, did not do this (edit -- or did not do ENOUGH to make the distinction). I would put forth that the overlap of Confed. flag wavers and flat out racists Is a pretty large shaded area in that particular Venn Diagram.

My fellow Klan brothers (hell, I may as well accept it since I'm guilty by association ) didn't fly the Rebel flag until the 60's, when it was dusted off for the 100th Anniversary of the War. In the '20s, the Klan flew that other racist flag, Old Glory.Scroll down for KKK flag pics

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

But it is a symbol, can we stick with the topic.

I don't know why you seem to always take a topic then try and use some "what if" scenerio that has nothing to do with it.

I love how you try to compare the symbol of slavery, a truely awful period in this country with a red shirt. You're not only a class act but one of the most brilliant people I have even come across. Your mother I bet is proud of you.

It's true. My mom brags about me to everyone. Sometimes, I feel like I have a Jewish mother, she brags so much. And then hate fills my blood because Jewish people piss me off. But I digress. Sorry. I do that sometimes.

I don't think I've had a "what if" statement yet. I could be wrong. And I'm sorry you're missing my point. I'll try and be clear this time:

1) The Confederate Army flew the Confederate Flag.

2) The CA did not fight the war based on whether slavery was right or wrong.

3) Both the north and south had slaves.

4) The Civil War had the most casualties out of any other war in our history.

5) Even though we were at war with the south, they were still our brothers.

6) Honoring your fallen brothers or having pride in your heritage does not make you racist.

The Confederate States of America were not fighting a war to keep slavery. Hell, half the states that fought on this side did so because they opposed the US government's call up of troops. So if people who think the South fought the Civil War based on slavery and see the flag as a symbol of slavery are offended, my response is, "Go read a history book."

you forgot # 7, which was multiple generations of racist rednecks and KKK members using the flag as their symbol as they burned crosses and hated, spat at and lynched black people. That probably stands out in peoples mind a little more than a war, a war that no one who posts here ever talked to anyone who was a part of it ... we're at least 3 or 4 generations removed. Ask how many black people here who have parents and grandparents who were alive in the south 40-50 years ago about thie associations with the Confederate Flag. They can tell you. You can look at it logically, but erasing the racial stigma associated with the flag is not anywhere near as easy as "reading a history book". In fact, in my opnion it's damn near impossible.

edit for clarity/grammar

ACP, I understand that totally. But just because a bunch of idiots use your once proud symbol as their racist symbol, doesn't turn you into a racist. If the KKK started flying the Stars and Stripes as their symbol of ethnic cleansing, would we be forced to adopt a new flag because ours now symbolized intolerance?

In your scenario -- There would be an UPROAR from anyone who loves this country. It would be made clear, in no uncertain terms, that no one approved of what a tiny fringe group was doing with this symbol. The Southern Pride people who wanted nothing to do with the racist association, did not do this (edit -- or did not do ENOUGH to make the distinction). I would put forth that the overlap of Confed. flag wavers and flat out racists Is a pretty large shaded area in that particular Venn Diagram.

. . .

And yet, what do you know....the US Flag is not seen as a symbol for racists and KKK members. Why do you think that distinction is often not made with the Confederate Flag? As I'm sure you know, The Klan was founded by a former Confederate General.

Your ignoring of the overlap of the history is just silly. Or should I say shallow?

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

In America, people have a right to their views. And, sadly, many things in this world that one person sees as a symbol for A, another person sees as a symbol for B. Is one more right than the other for their views? No. If someone flying the flag is a racist, then they're an idiot who should be dealt with for thier racist views. If someone flying the flag is a good person who loves all people, then that person should be treated that way. Don't judge someone based on the color of their skin, what they wear, or what flag they fly. Am I wrong for thinking that?

What if they wear a white hood? I'll make judgements there. Similarly, I will make judgements for what flag they fly.

 

[redman]

. . .

More.Another one.

 

[TheIronSheik]

In America, people have a right to their views. And, sadly, many things in this world that one person sees as a symbol for A, another person sees as a symbol for B. Is one more right than the other for their views? No. If someone flying the flag is a racist, then they're an idiot who should be dealt with for thier racist views. If someone flying the flag is a good person who loves all people, then that person should be treated that way. Don't judge someone based on the color of their skin, what they wear, or what flag they fly. Am I wrong for thinking that?

What if they wear a white hood? I'll make judgements there. Similarly, I will make judgements for what flag they fly.

A little different. I don't know of anyone who wears a Klan outfit who isn't a racist.

 

[Mjolnirs]

and that link showed nothing that answered my question. Please quit fishing

whatever

 

[redman]

ACP, I understand that totally. But just because a bunch of idiots use your once proud symbol as their racist symbol, doesn't turn you into a racist. If the KKK started flying the Stars and Stripes as their symbol of ethnic cleansing, would we be forced to adopt a new flag because ours now symbolized intolerance?

In your scenario -- There would be an UPROAR from anyone who loves this country. It would be made clear, in no uncertain terms, that no one approved of what a tiny fringe group was doing with this symbol. The Southern Pride people who wanted nothing to do with the racist association, did not do this (edit -- or did not do ENOUGH to make the distinction). I would put forth that the overlap of Confed. flag wavers and flat out racists Is a pretty large shaded area in that particular Venn Diagram.

. . .

And yet, what do you know....the US Flag is not seen as a symbol for racists and KKK members. Why do you think that distinction is often not made with the Confederate Flag? As I'm sure you know, The Klan was founded by a former Confederate General.

Your ignoring of the overlap of the history is just silly. Or should I say shallow?

You're all over the place.

 

[perry147]

So according to some people on this board if a guys wears pink running shorts and a mini tank top while running around San Fransisco while holding another guys hand during a gay pride parade - It would be strange to think this person is gay.

But if I see a flag that was used to support racism that is used by racist/hate groups to mean race superiority - I can not possibly be right in thinking that person is a racist.

Nope no way.

 

[RoarinSonoran]

. . .

More.Another one.

More pics (scroll down; I added this link to a post above, but just in case it was missed)

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

ACP, I understand that totally. But just because a bunch of idiots use your once proud symbol as their racist symbol, doesn't turn you into a racist. If the KKK started flying the Stars and Stripes as their symbol of ethnic cleansing, would we be forced to adopt a new flag because ours now symbolized intolerance?

In your scenario -- There would be an UPROAR from anyone who loves this country. It would be made clear, in no uncertain terms, that no one approved of what a tiny fringe group was doing with this symbol. The Southern Pride people who wanted nothing to do with the racist association, did not do this (edit -- or did not do ENOUGH to make the distinction). I would put forth that the overlap of Confed. flag wavers and flat out racists Is a pretty large shaded area in that particular Venn Diagram.

. . .

And yet, what do you know....the US Flag is not seen as a symbol for racists and KKK members. Why do you think that distinction is often not made with the Confederate Flag? As I'm sure you know, The Klan was founded by a former Confederate General.

Your ignoring of the overlap of the history is just silly. Or should I say shallow?

You're all over the place.

Your semantics games are tons of fun. Change my "a" in your bolded to "the".

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I'm done with this for a while. You kids play nice.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I'm off to a lynching. Have a great one!

 

[Yankee23Fan]

For those here defending or promoting the use of the Confederate flag, may I ask you a question or two?Would you call a black person a n#####?If you answer no to this question, would you please elaborate as to why you would not call a black person a n#####?

Yeah, that's a good analogy to use. Good job.

 

[PocketPasser]

Grew up in NY, live in PA. It has always represented losers to me.

 

[bueno]

I grew up in Connecticut and to me the Confeerate flag doesn't mean a damn thing.

I think I'll display the Jewish flag so that people will think I'm anti-Arab.

 

[Tag]

I see no difference in someone waving a confederate flag, Texas flag around or a guy walking around with a Black Pride T-shirt on. I dont view any of these as racist acts.

 

[Viva Tequila]

W/O reading the whole thing and not knowing if it's been said - It means there's a white man with a gun inside.

CA

 

[redman]

I grew up in Connecticut and to me the Confeerate flag doesn't mean a damn thing.I think I'll display the Jewish flag so that people will think I'm anti-Arab.

Wow I would think the majority of Jewish people, whose family members and ancestor's were enslaved in Nazi death camps, would be very offended with your implied comparison of the Flag of Israel to the Confederate Flag.

. . . I'm just trying to remember how many Jews were gassed by the Confederates. Give me a second . . .

 

[On The Rocks]

I'm done with this for a while. You kids play nice.

at ACP defending the "Confederate Flag = Racism" side of the argument, when I know....I just know, just as sure as I am sitting here.....I know the guy in his avatar sleeps under a layer of blankets made of Confederate Flags.

 

[Black Sunday]

Just because some racists hijacked the confederate flag as their symbol of choice doesn't mean that everyone who flies that flag is a racist. Many in the south hold on to history and tradition and the confederate flag is a part of their history and tradition.

You mean, their history and tradition of being racists?

I see you live in NC. You think everyone from the south is/was racist?

The south was racist. Those that dream about the past "greatness" of Southern history and tradition are reminiscing about a culture of racism.

I don't deny a culture of racism. But do you think that was the case with everyone?

It doesn't matter if that wasn't the case with every single person. It was with the majority. And the confederate flag was the symbol that majority of southern, white, racists chose to represent themselves. So for a non-racist person to claim that they can fly the confederate flag because it represents the non-racist parts of the southern heritage is either woefully ignorant or ridiculous.

Funny, I was going to say that to assume that the person flying the flag is a racist is either woefully ignorant or ridiculous.Just because KKK burned crosses, does that mean that every christian is a racist? No.

The intent of the person flying the flag can vary greatly from one person to the next. If you label that individual as a racist without having a single clue to his motivations.. well, that is on you, not the person flying the flag. Just because YOU associate the flag with racism, doesn't mean he does too. And if a lot of people associate it with racism, so what. That still doesn't mean that that specific individual is a racist.

If you are willing to lump that individual into the same group as all racists, doesn't that make you guilty yourself of your own brand of stereotyping and negative discrimination?

 

[Black Sunday]

For those here defending or promoting the use of the Confederate flag, may I ask you a question or two?Would you call a black person a n#####?If you answer no to this question, would you please elaborate as to why you would not call a black person a n#####?

I don't fly the flag, but I will defend someone else's right to use the confederate flag without getting labeled a racist.No, I would not call a black person a n#####, because to call someone this name is to make an intentional negative inflamatory name. I do not think flying the flag is the same thing. If someone chooses to be offended by the confederate flag, that's on them.Some time ago, a friend told me a story about this one time when he met a soldier in a bar. My friend was holding something in his right hand, so he offered his left hand to the soldier for him to shake. The soldier slapped my friend's hand away and told him, "don't give me your LEFT hand to shake. That is an insult to me!" My friend just shook his head and went about his business. The point being, my friend certainly did not intend to insult this soldier. The fact that the soldier was insulted is in no way my friends fault, just like it's not the flag waver's fault if you are offended by his flag.

 

[Black Sunday]

If you know something that you are doing is extremely offensive to a particular race of people...and you continue to do it...what does that make you?

Depends on your motivations for doing what you are doing. To be honest, I don't give a crap how 90% of people think about what I'm doing. If you're so shallow to assume that I'm a racist without having a clue as to who I am or what I'm about, then so be it. That doesn't make me any worse of a person. It makes YOU the one making unfounded assumptions, not me.

 

[Christo]

If you know something that you are doing is extremely offensive to a particular race of people...and you continue to do it...what does that make you?

It doesn't "make" you anything.

 

[moleculo]

For those here defending or promoting the use of the Confederate flag, may I ask you a question or two?Would you call a black person a n#####?If you answer no to this question, would you please elaborate as to why you would not call a black person a n#####?

I don't fly the flag, but I will defend someone else's right to use the confederate flag without getting labeled a racist.No, I would not call a black person a n#####, because to call someone this name is to make an intentional negative inflamatory name.

Why is it inflammatory?

seriously?

 

[Sabertooth]

To be quite honest, it's pretty laughable. I think Dukes of Hazzard more than anything else. Secondly, I think of whining southerners who can't accept defeat.

 

[Black Sunday]

For those here defending or promoting the use of the Confederate flag, may I ask you a question or two?Would you call a black person a n#####?If you answer no to this question, would you please elaborate as to why you would not call a black person a n#####?

I don't fly the flag, but I will defend someone else's right to use the confederate flag without getting labeled a racist.No, I would not call a black person a n#####, because to call someone this name is to make an intentional negative inflamatory name.

Why is it inflammatory?

Who care's why it is inflammatory. The point is, it is an INTENTIONAL slight on someone else. Flying the confederate flag is not necessarily an intentional slight on anyone. Could it be an intentional slight? Sure, it could, but that is not to say that everyone flying a confederate flag is making an intentional insult on anyone else. Without knowing the motivations of the individual flying the flag, you would be just as wrong as someone calling someone else a n#####.Is it racist when a black man calls another black man a n#####? Why not? It's because there is no malice and no intent to insult when the word is used like this.

 

[Black Sunday]

For those here defending or promoting the use of the Confederate flag, may I ask you a question or two?Would you call a black person a n#####?If you answer no to this question, would you please elaborate as to why you would not call a black person a n#####?

I don't fly the flag, but I will defend someone else's right to use the confederate flag without getting labeled a racist.No, I would not call a black person a n#####, because to call someone this name is to make an intentional negative inflamatory name.

Why is it inflammatory?

I see you decided to leave as opposed to answer...I will answer it for you then. It is inflammatory because it is offensive to black people...in the same way the Confederate flag is.

lol at you jumping the gun.

 

[Black Sunday]

For those here defending or promoting the use of the Confederate flag, may I ask you a question or two?Would you call a black person a n#####?If you answer no to this question, would you please elaborate as to why you would not call a black person a n#####?

I don't fly the flag, but I will defend someone else's right to use the confederate flag without getting labeled a racist.No, I would not call a black person a n#####, because to call someone this name is to make an intentional negative inflamatory name.

Why is it inflammatory?

I see you decided to leave as opposed to answer...I will answer it for you then. It is inflammatory because it is offensive to black people...in the same way the Confederate flag is.

lol at you jumping the gun.

Not as much as I'm laughing at your ridiculous analogies and comparisons...

What's ridiculous? Is it ridiculous that I feel that you shouldn't make broad assumptions about someone when you have no idea what his intent and motivations are?Anyone that thinks that anyone flying a confederate flag is a racist automatically without having any insight into why the person is flying the flag, is a hypocrite, period.

 

[snarfsnarf]

For me the flag is pretty cool looking and the meaning varies depending where and by whom it is being hung.

Option 1: Southern pride, Ancestral pride, Rebel/Independence, gentile south

Option 2: Racist, Uneducated, Redneck

Like most of life, context matters. I can usually decipher for which option it is being used. I'd hate to see it disappear because of option 2.

New York

 

[Black Sunday]

For me the flag is pretty cool looking and the meaning varies depending where and by whom it is being hung.Option 1: Southern pride, Ancestral pride, Rebel/Independence, gentile southOption 2: Racist, Uneducated, RedneckLike most of life, context matters. I'd hate to see it disappear because of option 2.New York