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What is Obama's signature achievement as president? (1 Viewer)

MaxThreshold said:
Now this is revisionist history.  Obama made perfectly clear that he won and the GOP needed to get to the back of the bus.  The only way Obama would have "worked" with the GOP is if they would have acquiesced to everything he wanted.

Obama simply could not be trusted.
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Maybe I am misremembering, but I think Harry Reid was the one who arrogantly bragged about winning and them getting all the spoils, not Obama. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
Maybe I am misremembering, but I think Harry Reid was the one who arrogantly bragged about winning and them getting all the spoils, not Obama. 
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Obama was pretty arrogant. I've made the comparison to Woodrow Wilson, because Obama was also arrogant with his own party, particularly when it came to ACA. Like Wilson, he always had a condescending attitude of "I know what's best; I'm much smarter than the rest of you". This didn't endear him to opponents. 

 
Can you even read.  Two completely different topics.  The stimulus was 100 percent driven by the democrats.  Who to blame for the gridlock between Obama and the GOP had plenty of blame to go around.  I am not sure why I even waste my breath on your non-sense.  

 
If we look at 3 things Obama attempted to accomplish: 

Obamacare - succeeded because he had a Democratic majority, but now under threat because, in part, no Republicans went along. 

Iran deal Succeeded because he didn't need Congress. 

Trans Pacific Partnership Failed because he couldn't convince Congress of his POV. 

In each of these cases Obama didn't attempt to sway Congress through personal relationships as LBJ and Reagan were so expert at; instead, he simply asserted his superior knowledge in an arrogant fashion ala Wilson. That arrogance, along with the unbending irrational extremism Obama faced from his conservative opponents (also suffered by Woodrow), cause his entire Presidency to be called into question. 

 
jon_mx said:
oh Tim, please read.  Surely you understand those were two completely different topics.  Topic one was who wrote the stimulus.  Topic two was about the gridlock. 
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I dunno. Sure reads to me like in both instances your comments were far more generalized. I don't care; it's still funny either way. 

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Just so I have it straight in my head, Americans are idiots for voting in Donald Trump as president, but we trust them as being intelligent when they're being polled in a poll like this one? 

Is that right?
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:mellow:

No, just pointing out your claim that most people don't view Obamacare as a good thing was not a true statement, as a majority do.

I said nothing about the intelligence of Trump voters nor the intelligence of people being polled, either. Horrible attempt at deflection and one of the worst Straw Man arguments I have ever seen on this forum.

 
squistion said:
:mellow:

No, just pointing out your claim that most people don't view Obamacare as a good thing was not a true statement, as a majority do.

I said nothing about the intelligence of Trump voters nor the intelligence of people being polled, either. Horrible attempt at deflection and one of the worst Straw Man arguments I have ever seen on this forum.
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:lol:

Anyone that thinks Obamacare is fine left as is,  is ... not smart

 
The Dude said:
Public health care is always Obamas achievement even if repealed and replaced.  The truth is the GOP would rather not have a health care program at all - and Obama has forced their hand.
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Basically forever too.  It was a very big shift towards single payer.  They don't even talk about going back to privatized anymore.  Not even in the conversation.  

 
Sabertooth said:
Basically forever too.  It was a very big shift towards single payer.  They don't even talk about going back to privatized anymore.  Not even in the conversation.  
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Which is the big lie they told taxpayers. When Barney Frank said this made the move towards single-payer inevitable, he wasn't kidding -- he was the only one being honest and was shouted down by his fellow Democrats.

My question: How long until doctors start relocating and we start seeing medical tourism much like in Europe and our dental tourism? 

 
rockaction said:
My question: How long until doctors start relocating and we start seeing medical tourism much like in Europe and our dental tourism? 
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Where are they going to go?  I think almost all other nations have universal (government run) health care.  Not to mention the ordeal with passing licensing boards, etc. or getting a visa to work in whatever country they would like to relocate to that has a magical free market health care system where they can get rich instead of serving the public, which should be their mandate.

 
The Z Machine said:
Where are they going to go?  I think almost all other nations have universal (government run) health care.  Not to mention the ordeal with passing licensing boards, etc. or getting a visa to work in whatever country they would like to relocate to that has a magical free market health care system where they can get rich instead of serving the public, which should be their mandate.
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Eastern Europe is my first guess, Mexico my second. I'd need a list, though.  

Here's a map. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/heres-a-map-of-the-countries-that-provide-universal-health-care-americas-still-not-on-it/259153/

 
I also want to mention that most socialized health care systems have an additional layer of private, for profit doctors and health care providers.  Cosmetic surgery, elective surgery, quick turn MRI, etc. etc. all have their place in most systems. 

 
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The Z Machine said:
I also want to mention that most socialized health care systems have an additional layer of private, for profit doctors and health care providers.  Cosmetic surgery, elective surgery, quick turn MRI, etc. etc. all have their place in most systems. 
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Sort of like John Roemer's unequal socialism and wages for serious white-collar and skilled labor. Most modern socialist systems have some sort of function built in to give and incentive for the extra training and learning. In this case, it sounds consumer-based.   

 
The Z Machine said:
Sure, buddy.  Ask me how I know you're not thinking clearly on the topic...

I'll believe it when I see a brain drain from the USA to Eastern Europe or Latin America. 
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I said tourism.  I said nothing about brain drain. 

Huh.  

 
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Socialism isn't communism.  A market economy can still exist, even if certain sectors are socialized (education, health care, emergency services, electrical power,  telecommunication infrastructure, etc.)

 
The Z Machine said:
Socialism isn't communism.  A market economy can still exist, even if certain sectors are socialized (education, health care, emergency services, electrical power,  telecommunication infrastructure, etc.)
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I just said it was Free To Lose like John Roemer's proposal.  

Here, let me help you remember. 

"Sort of like John Roemer's unequal socialism and wages for serious white-collar and skilled labor. Most modern socialist systems have some sort of function built in to give and incentive for the extra training and learning. In this case, it sounds consumer-based."   

 
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You know, you've been chagrined or caustic with me at least five times out of our six interactions on this board. 

Problem with me and my politics? Keep coming, because the "brain drain" thing won't happen again and you'll look foolish.  

edit: dumb ending. I should have said, if you have a problem, we can have any debate you want. This just sounds stupid. 

 
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rockaction said:
Which is the big lie they told taxpayers. When Barney Frank said this made the move towards single-payer inevitable, he wasn't kidding -- he was the only one being honest and was shouted down by his fellow Democrats.

My question: How long until doctors start relocating and we start seeing medical tourism much like in Europe and our dental tourism? 
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A long time ago.  

 
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rockaction said:
Everybody knows this. You and I have been through this before. Socialism, broadly defined, is the ownership of the means of production by the people.
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I don't agree everybody knows it. My impression is that large numbers of the GOP's conservative base, particularly those in the Tea Party, religious conservatives, and Trump supporters, tend to use the word "socialism" as a catch all demonization of any progressive policy (or person)  they are opposed to. 

 
sporthenry said:
Wait what?  So Republican became obstructionists because he favored tax cuts towards the poor. 
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:lol:  nice spin.  This is what wrong with politics.  People take a dozen things and try to twist the worst possible one into rhetoric which isn't even true.  No, the Republicans ideas had nothing to do with trying to eliminates Obama'a big give away to people who had a zero tax bill.  They would have left that in place.  They had additional ideas, things like tax cuts for small businesses to help create jobs and who actually had a tax bill. One specific tax cut the GOP suggested was to lower the tax rate for middle class Americans from 15% to 10%, but that was met with, sorry I won let me ####can that idea. 

 
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timschochet said:
I don't agree everybody knows it. My impression is that large numbers of the GOP's conservative base, particularly those in the Tea Party, religious conservatives, and Trump supporters, tend to use the word "socialism" as a catch all demonization of any progressive policy (or person)  they are opposed to. 
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And those on the left use rhetoric like Reoublicans want to starve the poor, feed grandpa dog food, don't care about women, or whatever non-sense that comes into their heads. Unfortunately, falsely characterizing ideas and deminizing them is what people do, including you, by associating racial motives to everything or calling people anti-science, for instance.  Or the post above I had to deal with. 

 
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rockaction said:
Which is the big lie they told taxpayers. When Barney Frank said this made the move towards single-payer inevitable, he wasn't kidding -- he was the only one being honest and was shouted down by his fellow Democrats.

My question: How long until doctors start relocating and we start seeing medical tourism much like in Europe and our dental tourism? 
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Where are they going to relocate to?  And if they do, great.  Tourism is a business too.  More tourism jobs.  

 
rockaction said:
You know, you've been chagrined or caustic with me at least five times out of our six interactions on this board. 

Problem with me and my politics? Keep coming, because the "brain drain" thing won't happen again and you'll look foolish.  

edit: dumb ending. I should have said, if you have a problem, we can have any debate you want. This just sounds stupid. 
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How you really sound

 
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