What is with owners and scoring changes? (1 Viewer)

[Varmint]

Our league formed in 1999

We spent 1999, 2000, & 2001 "tweaking" the rules.

We haven't had a scoring rules change since 2001.

The scoring parity is amazing.

Even after 7 years of not touching the rules our weekly average point contribution looks like this after Week 10:

QB...........6.1

RB...........5.9

WR/TE......5.6

PK............5.9

DEF/ST.....5.0

The scoring parity could not be any closer.

As of now, out of 14 teams only one team has clinched a playoff spot...only one team has been eliminated.

The top four scoring teams are seperated by only 30 pts.

The weekly scores are really close....we've had to break 5 ties already in 10 weeks.

The average weekly score of any franchise is 30.8 pts.

What I'm saying is that our current scoring rules make for very exciting weekends and changes to the scoring system would only make the scores higher and give more emphasis to one position over another.

Every season at our pre-season meeting AND in our league's Articles of War it is covered that "...any suggestions to make the league run smoother are invited, any suggested changes to scoring rules will not be considered".

Yet, every season...ONE owner or another will post a poll pushing for a count of hands of who would like to see some sort of scoring change in one position or another.

Of course, when it is pointed out that no change in the scoring system will be considered....someone gets their feelings hurt.

There are 14 teams in our league.

There are 22 owners in our league.

EVERYONE has an idea of at least one rule or another that should be added.

If you entertain ONE suggestion you'll open the flood gates to many more.

I've explained to everyone that MFL offers a TON of scoring options. If I wanted...I could put our weekly scores into the THOUSANDS but I choose not to.

I want parity in our league's scoring and I don't want our scores to look like bowling scores!

What is it about points?

Does more points equal more excitement?

 

[gianmarco]

More points = less reliability of one big lucky score carrying a week.

The more positions and points awarded, the small differences between teams in terms of having solid depth and having the better lineups is more pronounced and can overcome a lucky performance by a worse team. Just my take on it.

 

[Varmint]

More points = less reliability of one big lucky score carrying a week.The more positions and points awarded, the small differences between teams in terms of having solid depth and having the better lineups is more pronounced and can overcome a lucky performance by a worse team. Just my take on it.

It would seem that more scoring options gives a lineup with less talent MORE of a chance of getting "lucky".

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

It would seem that more scoring options gives a lineup with less talent MORE of a chance of getting "lucky".

Depends on what you're awarding points for. Compare yardage leagues to TD only leagues - yardage leagues award a lot more points, and more consistently reward good players/teams.

 

[CMU37484]

More points = less reliability of one big lucky score carrying a week.The more positions and points awarded, the small differences between teams in terms of having solid depth and having the better lineups is more pronounced and can overcome a lucky performance by a worse team. Just my take on it.

It would seem that more scoring options gives a lineup with less talent MORE of a chance of getting "lucky".

Are you implying that there's a great deal of "skill" involved. It's like euchre, 80% luck, 20% skill. Even with conservative scoring like you seem to favor, the guy with Matt Cassel the other night got pretty "lucky"My league is a performance scoring PPR league. 6 pts all TD's. My team is averaging 130+ points per week so it's VERY high scoring. We've seen the scoring change slightly over the years but not a great deal, except adding PPR a few years ago. As for the balance amongst the positions, QB's and WR's are the biggest scorers, with RB's right there as well. That's kind of the way we like it though. The thing is....our scores in our games are WAY higher than they ever used to be but the parity hasn't changed. Changing your scoring to adding more points really should NOT affect parity. That's kind of dependent on how well your owners draft and manage their teams isn't it? 12 team league with 12 good owners will have plenty of parity.With less scoring though you're narrowing the player pool some. A guy like Greg Camarillo for example is gold in a PPR league, but in a conservative league that leans heavier to TD's, he's not worth all that much. In our league Lendale White is a decent RB, but not a true stud. Conservative leagues have him as gold. I guesss it depends on the philosophy of the owners.It shoudn;t shock you so much though to see many owners want to evolve your league and its scoring to bring more ideas and points into the mix. Call it "progress"

 

[kinghill]

I'd like to see your scoring rules.

We haven't changed our scoring rules and scoring is down a bit this year so far. Averages for this year and last year:

Pos / 2008 / 2007

QB / 21.1 / 24.1

RB / 10.8 / 11.6

WR / 7.9 / 10.0

TE / 5.2 / 6.2

PK / 7.6 / 7.8

DEF / 8.9 / 10.8

Now you got me thinking about more stats. MFL is great. I'm gonna crunch some margin of victory stats from our league.

28 out of our 120 (23%) regular season matchups have been decided by a margin of victory of 9 points or less. We've had 1 tie.

 

[the roflmobile]

As a commish in his second year, I enjoy seeing teams score more points. We did something crazy with scoring this year by awarding more points for return yards, and a 10 point bonus for 100+ yards. It's been fun, and made guys like Johnny Lee Higgins, Devin Hester, Roscoe Parish, Leon Washington, etc. absolute fantasy rockstars. This has also made for a very active waiver wire as teams play the matchups hoping to strike gold with yardage bonuses. The average score each week in this league is something like 210 points. But I understand where the OP is coming from. Standard scoring leagues are a great introduction to fantasy, especially if you're used to say, fantasy baseball scoring. Everything's sort of a nail biter each week. Different strokes for different folks. There is no right or wrong way to score as long as everyone is having fun.

 

[Shrek]

Change isn't a bad thing. It keeps things fresh and interesting over a long period of time. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're resisting change because you feel that you have figured out how to flourish in the current system, and you think others are trying to implement change because they haven't.

I have been commissioner of a league for over 10 years, and we've gone through several scoring changes over the years. Changes are always done by committee vote. Like I tell everyone on the league, if you are informed of the scoring format before the draft, and you have time to prepare accordingly, you have no excuses. If you're that informed about FF, you should be able to adapt.

 

[CMU37484]

Change isn't a bad thing. It keeps things fresh and interesting over a long period of time. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're resisting change because you feel that you have figured out how to flourish in the current system, and you think others are trying to implement change because they haven't. I have been commissioner of a league for over 10 years, and we've gone through several scoring changes over the years. Changes are always done by committee vote. Like I tell everyone on the league, if you are informed of the scoring format before the draft, and you have time to prepare accordingly, you have no excuses. If you're that informed about FF, you should be able to adapt.

I know at our banquet every year when we discuss proposals for changes it's always the guys who had success with the old way opposing the change. It makes sense. An example......we only give 1 pt per 2 receptions for RB's, WR/TE get 1 PPR instead. I hate it and think it should be the same for all positions. But because I've owned MJD, Brian Westbrook, Reggie Bush over the past few years people always say "you only want this because you'd score a lot more points with it" and the guys who own Turner, Grant, etc. who don't catch very many screen passes are fine with it. Or the guy who owns Devin Hester says "why can't we let return yards go to the players instead of the D/ST units"It's all about what migth benefit you for a lot of guys.But we still see plenty of changes from year to year at the banquet. We used to be a strict Start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, etc. and the bench has to be a certain number of every postion. Now we have 2 Flex positions, rosters sizes of 17 with NO position limits, etc. Change is good.

 

[Ozymandias]

14 teams and 22 owners?

And I thought RBBC was bad.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

IMO, the best scoring system is one that places Fantasy Value as close to real NFL value as possible.

A more detailed, high performance scoring system best does this with a few comments:

Team Defense scoring should be very robust, many categories, many nuances that track real NFL value. A top defense should be amongst the top Fantasy scoring position of any given week. Defense wins NFL games and should be a big factor in winning Fantasy leagues. Too many fantasy leagues make defensive scoring an afterthought.

Don't make your league too "TD-centric". TDs should definitely get their 6 pts. Yes, reward long gains, but don't link them to TDs. 40+ yard plays are huge as they change field position dramatically, give them a 2 pt bonus. 20+ yard runs from scrimmage get a bonus point. Again, no need to link to TDs.

QB play. Have a sliding scale to QB rating for the game (up to 5 bonus pts). If your scoring system allows, give 2 pts for a "QB win".

PPR - make it a 1st down reception (a category) as moving chains has more NFL value than the 3rd down check down throw that results in punt.

A more robust scoring makes fantasy value get close to NFL value. It results in less "luck" and little more "skill". Also, it won't 100% correlate with the weekly tout cheat rankings from FBG or elsewhere - so understand that asymmetry at the skilled fantasy player will have a bit of an additional advantage.

 

[Shrek]

IMO, the best scoring system is one that places Fantasy Value as close to real NFL value as possible.

A more detailed, high performance scoring system best does this with a few comments:

Team Defense scoring should be very robust, many categories, many nuances that track real NFL value. A top defense should be amongst the top Fantasy scoring position of any given week. Defense wins NFL games and should be a big factor in winning Fantasy leagues. Too many fantasy leagues make defensive scoring an afterthought.

Don't make your league too "TD-centric". TDs should definitely get their 6 pts. Yes, reward long gains, but don't link them to TDs. 40+ yard plays are huge as they change field position dramatically, give them a 2 pt bonus. 20+ yard runs from scrimmage get a bonus point. Again, no need to link to TDs.

QB play. Have a sliding scale to QB rating for the game (up to 5 bonus pts). If your scoring system allows, give 2 pts for a "QB win".

PPR - make it a 1st down reception (a category) as moving chains has more NFL value than the 3rd down check down throw that results in punt.

A more robust scoring makes fantasy value get close to NFL value. It results in less "luck" and little more "skill". Also, it won't 100% correlate with the weekly tout cheat rankings from FBG or elsewhere - so understand that asymmetry at the skilled fantasy player will have a bit of an additional advantage.

Not to belittle your league, but if this works for you, fine. It doesn't mean it's the best way. I don't put much stock in the "That's the way they do it in the NFL" argument for anything relating to FF. The point is not to make a league exactly like the NFL. The point of FF, basically, is to project how well players are going to do each year, draft accordingly, outsmart your league mates and have fun. To always fall back to the justification that "That's the way the NFL does it" is short-sighted and probably detrimental to your league. The guy who brings a 12 pack and a bottle of booze to the draft, eats 20 chicken wings, drafts his "super sleeper" from his favorite fantasy rag, belches and itches himself, flings crap back and forth with his league mates, then manages his team for 15 minutes a day from his work computer isn't particularly worried about making sure that draft night exactly simulates the NFL Draft.

 

[Varmint]

14 teams and 22 owners?

And I thought RBBC was bad.

Most owners "partner up" to split the costs:$120 entry fee

$ 5 transaction fee.

On average most franchises spend between $150-$200 per season.

 

[Varmint]

IMO, the best scoring system is one that places Fantasy Value as close to real NFL value as possible.

A more detailed, high performance scoring system best does this with a few comments:

Team Defense scoring should be very robust, many categories, many nuances that track real NFL value. A top defense should be amongst the top Fantasy scoring position of any given week. Defense wins NFL games and should be a big factor in winning Fantasy leagues. Too many fantasy leagues make defensive scoring an afterthought.

Don't make your league too "TD-centric". TDs should definitely get their 6 pts. Yes, reward long gains, but don't link them to TDs. 40+ yard plays are huge as they change field position dramatically, give them a 2 pt bonus. 20+ yard runs from scrimmage get a bonus point. Again, no need to link to TDs.

QB play. Have a sliding scale to QB rating for the game (up to 5 bonus pts). If your scoring system allows, give 2 pts for a "QB win".

PPR - make it a 1st down reception (a category) as moving chains has more NFL value than the 3rd down check down throw that results in punt.

A more robust scoring makes fantasy value get close to NFL value. It results in less "luck" and little more "skill". Also, it won't 100% correlate with the weekly tout cheat rankings from FBG or elsewhere - so understand that asymmetry at the skilled fantasy player will have a bit of an additional advantage.

Not to belittle your league, but if this works for you, fine. It doesn't mean it's the best way. I don't put much stock in the "That's the way they do it in the NFL" argument for anything relating to FF. The point is not to make a league exactly like the NFL. The point of FF, basically, is to project how well players are going to do each year, draft accordingly, outsmart your league mates and have fun. To always fall back to the justification that "That's the way the NFL does it" is short-sighted and probably detrimental to your league. The guy who brings a 12 pack and a bottle of booze to the draft, eats 20 chicken wings, drafts his "super sleeper" from his favorite fantasy rag, belches and itches himself, flings crap back and forth with his league mates, then manages his team for 15 minutes a day from his work computer isn't particularly worried about making sure that draft night exactly simulates the NFL Draft.

Agreed.Here is quote from our league's Commissioner (me) to the league some time ago concerning league scoring:

"You have to understand that this is NOT the NFL.

The NFL does not give 2 pts when a RB reaches 100yds

The NFL does not take away points when a QB tosses an Int.

The NFL does not give an extra pt when a FG is over 50yds

This is Fantasy Football.

We give (and take) points based on performance. Just because the DEF in the NFL gets 6 pts for a TD does not mean that any fantasy league has to do the same.

The NFL does not worry about keeping games close or keeping parity from position to position...

I do. "

 

[roadkill1292]

The guy who brings a 12 pack and a bottle of booze to the draft, eats 20 chicken wings, drafts his "super sleeper" from his favorite fantasy rag, belches and itches himself, flings crap back and forth with his league mates, then manages his team for 15 minutes a day from his work computer isn't particularly worried about making sure that draft night exactly simulates the NFL Draft.

Add in a couple of thunderous farts and you could be describing me at our annual auction. And I'm the league commissioner.

 

[Varmint]

The guy who brings a 12 pack and a bottle of booze to the draft, eats 20 chicken wings, drafts his "super sleeper" from his favorite fantasy rag, belches and itches himself, flings crap back and forth with his league mates, then manages his team for 15 minutes a day from his work computer isn't particularly worried about making sure that draft night exactly simulates the NFL Draft.

Add in a couple of thunderous farts and you could be describing me at our annual auction. And I'm the league commissioner.

Only a couple??I'm guessing that the wives attend.....

How many are the owners responsible for?

 

[Topes]

I think it's change that's more attractive than just scoring changes.

As the two leagues I am in are both keepers, scoring changes are OUT. Can't change scoring rules without doing a redraft, as it revalues existing rosters.

Yet, there are always folks coming up with new rules all the time. Most often, it's about that bogeyman "Fairness".

A few good rules have come down. When it became apparent that everybody had a computer now, we started allowing split lineup decisions at kickoff each year. But most of the other stuff is nonsense. We have 18-deep rosters and start 10 players. Every year, somebody wants to open up waivers during the playoffs. Stuff happens. Use your bench. More stuff happens. You're screwed. No rules can prevent stuff from happening. No rules can mitigate stuff from happening. Stuff happens. That's what the game is all about.

These are the rules. Deal with them.

 

[Topes]

The guy who brings a 12 pack and a bottle of booze to the draft, eats 20 chicken wings, drafts his "super sleeper" from his favorite fantasy rag, belches and itches himself, flings crap back and forth with his league mates, then manages his team for 15 minutes a day from his work computer isn't particularly worried about making sure that draft night exactly simulates the NFL Draft.

So now we know where Matt Millen landed.

 

[Topes]

Not to belittle your league, but if this works for you, fine. It doesn't mean it's the best way. I don't put much stock in the "That's the way they do it in the NFL" argument for anything relating to FF. The point is not to make a league exactly like the NFL. The point of FF, basically, is to project how well players are going to do each year, draft accordingly, outsmart your league mates and have fun. To always fall back to the justification that "That's the way the NFL does it" is short-sighted and probably detrimental to your league.

"That's the way the NFL does it" is the biggest crock this side of "fairness".

 

[heidbrink]

PPR helps reflect the actual "football" contribution. Who contributed more: Player A has 10 catches but doesn't cross the stripe or Player B who touches the ball once for a TD?