What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

What's wrong with Broncos Pass Def? (1 Viewer)

KingEl

Footballguy
Can any homers or someone in the know, explain what the issue is with Denver's Def? I haven't been able to see any games, but thought they were known for extreme talent at CB position, but they are getting torched...

 
This thread should just be, "Whats wrong with Denver's Defense". They have decent corners but their safeties are pretty weak if you ask me. McCree lost his job in San Diego and Marques Manuel was benched by the packers. Personally, I thought Hamza Abdullah was their answer at this position until they cut him. Champ is a stud, but I have seen Dre' Bly get burned way too many times for me to respect him as a "shut down" corner.

 
Can any homers or someone in the know, explain what the issue is with Denver's Def? I haven't been able to see any games, but thought they were known for extreme talent at CB position, but they are getting torched...
That is an excellent question. Although I'm not a true fan, I've had a lot of Broncos on my teams for the past two seasons and, as a result, watched almost all of their games. The bottom line is Bailey is on the downside of his career and the rest of the defense is just not that talented. I don't think the Broncos got everything that they were expecting in Dre Bly. Either the league has figured out Dumervil, or he doesn't have his A-game, b/c the D-line is getting no pressure. They are soft hitters, and opposing wideouts have no fear going over the middle. Broncos fans must miss the days of Atwater. Moreover, they can't really stop the run either without pressing to the line, so they are vulnerable to the play-action. They have some playmakers on D, but not nearly enough in the right places, so the unit at best resembles a poor man's San Diego or Arizona. I don't know enough about the rookies to tell you if it will improve, but the D certainly has a long way to go.
 
Is there a pass rush? You can't expect even the best of DB's to cover all day.

To compound the problem, Cutler to Marshall isn't helping control the ball either.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The first problem seems to be the scheme. I'm not sure they are completely convinced of what type defense they are running. They started off with a 4-3 and then showed some looks from the 3-4 but I don't think they have the personnel to run the 3-4 effectively.

Another problem seems to be the DL as a whole. I don't think they have developed as quickly as expected. Dumerville is not getting much pressure in the pass rush and Moss has been pretty ineffective as well. The DTs don't seem to be getting much push up front either. Add to that the safeties who are unproven and have not been difference makers and you have a pretty lousy defense.

Denver has rangy and athletic LBs who can be solid but I don't think they are being used in blitz packages as much as I had expected. They also don't seem to be getting much protection from the DL.

 
The last time I really focused in on it (maybe last year:-)) Bailey was a shut down corner who opposing QB's wouldn't even throw to his side... I think the feeling was that unless the WR was one of the elite, don't start him if facing Bailey. So is that line of thinking over with now? From what you guys are saying, it sounds like Qb's can just hang out with no real rush and pick the defense apart. From a fantasy standpoint, obviously for the 1st few games QB's are a must start against them.. What about individual Wr's... Can a so/so #1WR be a great start even when facing Bailey because Bailey can only hang with the WR for so long?.....

 
yea, scheme, zero pass rush, weak/inexperienced safties, Bly is way overrated, Nate Webster hits hard....but, he's a mediocre middle linebacker, no leadership. Champ leads by example, but typically how many corners rally the troops?

They really miss Al Wilson.

 
The last time I really focused in on it (maybe last year:-)) Bailey was a shut down corner who opposing QB's wouldn't even throw to his side... I think the feeling was that unless the WR was one of the elite, don't start him if facing Bailey. So is that line of thinking over with now? From what you guys are saying, it sounds like Qb's can just hang out with no real rush and pick the defense apart. From a fantasy standpoint, obviously for the 1st few games QB's are a must start against them.. What about individual Wr's... Can a so/so #1WR be a great start even when facing Bailey because Bailey can only hang with the WR for so long?.....
You be the judge:Week 1: Lelie 3-37 + 1TD; Curry 2 18 + 1TDWeek 2: Chambers 4-83 + 2TD's, VJax 6-73Week 3: Meachem 2-86; Dev Henderson 2-42Week 4: Bowe 7-85
 
Champ is still one of the best. Bly is still a good starting CB. No pass rush. Mediocre coverage LBs. Bad coverage safeties. Bad coverage nickel back.

 
The only legitimate pass rusher they have is Elvis Dumervile. He still is suffering from the broken finger. Because of it he cant grab hold of o-linemans pads and gain leverage. Until his finger is well he will struggle. I don't understand why they have him in during run plays. They need to make him a situational player where he only plays on passing downs. He's too small for running plays.

As far as the rest of the Def, they suck; with the exception of Champ and DJ Williams ( who is an absolute beast at the Weak side). Champ is stil the man, but even he can't cover if their is no pass rush. The safeties are the liability at this point. They are weak in coverage, and weak in run support. If you watch the game you see the safeties getting tons of tackles, which means they suck at covering.

At this point somebody should be getting the pink slip for this piss-poor Def. Denver needs to seriously re-examine their personel. They are going to need 3+ years of good drafting (focusing on their Def) if they are going to go anywhere. As much as that pains me to say that it's the truth. Denver needs to draft D-lineman until they get it right.

 
Aaronstory said:
Two words:Bob. Slowik.
Then explain the previous defensive coordinators?Denver has zero pass rush and until that is fixed anybody, and I mean Damon Huard type, can exploit them.
 
I do not post often, but I have a definite feeling about this question.

Teams who control the clock well have good defenses.

Teams who run the ball well are usually up on top.

Denver throws often, and that does not bode well for a defense. It means less time on the field for the offense, and more time on the field for the defense.

Playing defense requires a certain amount of rest due to the tedium of having to react as opposed to following a known regimen involved in a play.

I do not think (although I am sure you could prove me wrong) that under normal circumstance passing teams will generally have good defenses. Teams with a pass first offense will wear their defense out. They are on the field too much. Denver is most definitely relies on the passing game more than the running game at this point.

I would go as far as to say that the better a team gets at the passing game, they tend to lose the same amount at defense.

Balance is and always has been the key to a good overall football team.

Denver needs a running game.

 
I do not post often, but I have a definite feeling about this question.Teams who control the clock well have good defenses. Teams who run the ball well are usually up on top. Denver throws often, and that does not bode well for a defense. It means less time on the field for the offense, and more time on the field for the defense. Playing defense requires a certain amount of rest due to the tedium of having to react as opposed to following a known regimen involved in a play. I do not think (although I am sure you could prove me wrong) that under normal circumstance passing teams will generally have good defenses. Teams with a pass first offense will wear their defense out. They are on the field too much. Denver is most definitely relies on the passing game more than the running game at this point. I would go as far as to say that the better a team gets at the passing game, they tend to lose the same amount at defense. Balance is and always has been the key to a good overall football team. Denver needs a running game.
I can see what you are saying but the defense looks bad from the beginning of the game to the end, so I have a hard time chalking it up to a tired defense. There is also the argument that playing defense is easier when you have the lead and can pin your ears back and rush the passer on every play. Denver has had big leads in every game except the last one and has failed to hold on to the big lead. I think it boils down to a bad defense due to various reasons listed prior to this post.
 
I do not post often, but I have a definite feeling about this question.Teams who control the clock well have good defenses. Teams who run the ball well are usually up on top. Denver throws often, and that does not bode well for a defense. It means less time on the field for the offense, and more time on the field for the defense. Playing defense requires a certain amount of rest due to the tedium of having to react as opposed to following a known regimen involved in a play. I do not think (although I am sure you could prove me wrong) that under normal circumstance passing teams will generally have good defenses. Teams with a pass first offense will wear their defense out. They are on the field too much. Denver is most definitely relies on the passing game more than the running game at this point. I would go as far as to say that the better a team gets at the passing game, they tend to lose the same amount at defense. Balance is and always has been the key to a good overall football team. Denver needs a running game.
Denver leads the NFL in first downs. There's nothing better for a defense than an offense that generates lots of first downs.Of course, a better offense doesn't make a defense better; it just makes their stats better.
 
Their defensive line is below average, and their defensive coaching staff is below average. Not to mention that they are stupidly being instructed to use the four point stance 100% and anybody who ever played d-line can tell you that you will not create a pass rush using that technique.

 
Aaronstory said:
Two words:Bob. Slowik.
Then explain the previous defensive coordinators?Denver has zero pass rush and until that is fixed anybody, and I mean Damon Huard type, can exploit them.
Explain them how? The Denver defense has gone from mediocre to a complete joke. That, my friend, is the Slowik touch.
 
Champ Bailey is still fine, but he has no help back there. Even the best corners can only cover one guy at a time, and only for so long.

 
i agree the DL & back of the secondary are the chief culprits...
That sums it up. Bailey is trying to do too much and so is starting to get burned on some plays being out of position. He's not getting much help back there at all, and the DL is not strong at pass rushing (6 sacks to date, tied for 23rd in the NFL).
 
Mark Wimer said:
Bob Magaw said:
i agree the DL & back of the secondary are the chief culprits...
That sums it up. Bailey is trying to do too much and so is starting to get burned on some plays being out of position. He's not getting much help back there at all, and the DL is not strong at pass rushing (6 sacks to date, tied for 23rd in the NFL).
:goodposting: Bailey is having to cheat so much to help others, that it sometimes hurts him. Plus they have him playing special teams also, so he doesn't get a break.Bly gets picked on a lot because offenses still don't go after Bailey all the time, so they look to Bly's side, and with no pass rush, the WR ultimately gets open. I am not saying Bly is great, but he holds his own when there is help.The safeties are bad. There is a reason other teams didn't want them. Abdullah was better in coverage, but he could not tackle--plain and simple. Another problem is the Broncos keep changing Defensive Coordinators who bring THEIR ideas in. Well if you don't have the personel to run THAT scheme, it doesn't do you a bit of good. "Let's go big in the middle. No let's go small and fast." Make up your mind. You need to see what you have, then build around that and not try and force a square peg in a round hole.Further, our special teams are terrible and have been terrible for years. So alot of times, the defense is working against a short field, which limits you.Add in the fact they have made some terrible signings defensive wise that have backfired. this defense is a mess. It almost seems like they are running a prevent defense, taking their losses and then hoping the other team makes a mistake and doesn't convert 3rd down.
 
The last time I really focused in on it (maybe last year:-)) Bailey was a shut down corner who opposing QB's wouldn't even throw to his side... I think the feeling was that unless the WR was one of the elite, don't start him if facing Bailey. So is that line of thinking over with now? From what you guys are saying, it sounds like Qb's can just hang out with no real rush and pick the defense apart. From a fantasy standpoint, obviously for the 1st few games QB's are a must start against them.. What about individual Wr's... Can a so/so #1WR be a great start even when facing Bailey because Bailey can only hang with the WR for so long?.....
You be the judge:Week 1: Lelie 3-37 + 1TD; Curry 2 18 + 1TDWeek 2: Chambers 4-83 + 2TD's, VJax 6-73Week 3: Meachem 2-86; Dev Henderson 2-42Week 4: Bowe 7-85
Bailey hasn't played primarily in man coverage since... 2005, 2006. Nowadays he just plays the defensive left (offensive right) and covers whoever lines up across from him. He's still fine- when receivers are doing damage, it's still rarely against Champ. When opposing offenses even challenge him in the first place. Football Outsiders charted the games last year and found that the only two CBs in the entire league that teams actually avoided challenging were Bailey and Nnamdi Asomugha. Bailey is also still textbook perfect in run support, including a great tackle on Larry Johnson where he went low, flipped him over his back, and forced a fumble. I am truly convinced that if the defense decided to line Bailey up as an LB, he'd still be an all-pro. He might not be as good at wading through traffic as a Zach Thomas, but he just doesn't miss tackles.
No pass rush whatsoever...Jarvis Green is a total loser.
Yup. Jarvis Moss, too.
Champ is still one of the best. Bly is still a good starting CB. No pass rush. Mediocre coverage LBs. Bad coverage safeties. Bad coverage nickel back.
Mostly this. Bailey is still one of the best (Nnamdi and Champ are duking it out for the title, imo), and Bly is not nearly as bad as reports would lead you to believe... but outside of Bailey and Bly, no one on that defense can cover. Outside of Bailey and Williams, no one on the defense can tackle. Outside of Dumervil, nobody on that defense can pressure the QB (and even Dumervil hasn't been able to so far this year). Those are the three biggest components to good defense- covering, tackling, and pressuring the QB- and Denver has gaping holes in all three areas this year.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top