When will democrats realize that being nice to criminals doesnt make them nice. (1 Viewer)

[Rich Conway]

Of course the liberal judges are not entirely to blame.   But, my main premise still stands.  When liberal judges are appointed for life and many of those judges are handing out very light sentences, crime isn’t going to improve for years or decades.

I'll ask this again...

How many judges did Trump appoint or Bush, Clinton, or Bush?  Do we have any statistics showing that judges appointed by Obama (I'll ignore Biden as we couldn't have useful stats yet) are handing out more lenient sentences than those appointed by Bush or Trump?

 

[Zow]

For you guys that do have backgrounds, what do you say to the OPs statement that "democrats being nice to people doesn't make them nice"?  Are criminals being allowed to get away with crime more now than ever before and it is the democrats fault?  

I'd like some perspective for people that are in the know.

I rarely if ever see politics impact the process let alone Democrat v. Republican.

 

[Balco]

Of course the liberal judges are not entirely to blame.   But, my main premise still stands.  When liberal judges are appointed for life and many of those judges are handing out very light sentences, crime isn’t going to improve for years or decades.

when you say they are handing out light sentences do you mean after trial?

99% of convictions are by plea agreement. So I am having trouble following the logic here.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I'm currently working my tail off doing a three week long murder trial where I'm trying to provide the right to an effective and competent defense for my client as is his right per the constitution. Basically ignoring my entire personal life and well-being for this time. 

And if I win it appears that there's at least one poster here who thinks there should be some liability for the courtroom actors just trying to do their respective jobs. It's just disheartening. 

Very convincing argument posted on a magic football board.

Omg look at my sacrifice!!!

 

[Zow]

No, your main premise does not stand. It's absolute nonsense.

But you don't have to listen to me. Let's ask @Zow, or any of the other attorneys here with more criminal experience than I have:

To what extent do you think crime "not improving for years or decades"{ (which of course it has been, consistently, since the 1990s, but pretend it isn't) could be attributed to federal judges appointed by Obama and Biden handing out "very light sentences"? Please, enlighten Doc and I.

Assuming arguendo that crime hasn’t improved for decades, 0.1%

I’d give the same percentage for Republican appointed judges as well. 
 

The premise itself is just grossly myopic. 

 

[Zow]

Very convincing argument posted on a magic football board.

Omg look at my sacrifice!!!

I wasn’t arguing with anybody nor suggesting I’m making a sacrifice. 
 

 

[Zow]

Well, not all of us have working experience in the justice system.  It's hard to understand for many of us.  At least for me.  

I get that. It's a really complicated system that will never be perfect because there are no simple and obvious solutions nor simple causes to any problems contained there. 

 

[General Malaise]

I get that. It's a really complicated system that will never be perfect because there are no simple and obvious solutions nor simple causes to any problems contained there. 

Well, I'm glad you're in there.  You're a good egg.

 

[Jackstraw]

So we have one of the most punitive legal systems and highest incarceration rates on on the planet. And one of the weakest social safety nets. And all of that has gotten said results. And we need…more of that? 
 

This law and order nonsense is way past out of control. It’s the poverty yo. Easily predictable results of capitalism and corruption run amuck. So you then need a police state to control the droogs you have created. 
 

same people who think $7.25 an hour is aok then want to go crack heads and throw people in the dungeon. 
 

Basic fuedalism. 
 

 

[AAABatteries]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm

the states with the highest homicide rates are Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Missouri and Arkansas. 

Ok, now we just need Fox prime time to gaslight the above facts three hours a night, 5 days a week. 

That Soros guy is good.

 

[Jayrod]

So we have one of the most punitive legal systems and highest incarceration rates on on the planet. And one of the weakest social safety nets. And all of that has gotten said results. And we need…more of that? 
 

This law and order nonsense is way past out of control. It’s the poverty yo. Easily predictable results of capitalism and corruption run amuck. So you then need a police state to control the droogs you have created. 
 

same people who think $7.25 an hour is aok then want to go crack heads and throw people in the dungeon. 
 

Basic fuedalism. 
 

US vs 1st world/industrialized Western nations? OK, maybe.

US vs the world? Not even close.

 I really love how so many of these the "the US is bad at xxx" posts just simply ignore the fact that Africa, most of Asia and most of South America are way worse than our country in almost everything, including the things you just mentioned.

 

[moleculo]

US vs 1st world/industrialized Western nations? OK, maybe.

US vs the world? Not even close.

 I really love how so many of these the "the US is bad at xxx" posts just simply ignore the fact that Africa, most of Asia and most of South America are way worse than our country in almost everything, including the things you just mentioned.

Not to hold ourselves to a high standard or anything.

 

[parasaurolophus]

So we have one of the most punitive legal systems and highest incarceration rates on on the planet. And one of the weakest social safety nets. And all of that has gotten said results. And we need…more of that? 
 

This law and order nonsense is way past out of control. It’s the poverty yo. Easily predictable results of capitalism and corruption run amuck. So you then need a police state to control the droogs you have created. 
 

same people who think $7.25 an hour is aok then want to go crack heads and throw people in the dungeon. 
 

Basic fuedalism. 
 

Or....we just have the most criminals. 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

US vs 1st world/industrialized Western nations? OK, maybe.

US vs the world? Not even close.

 I really love how so many of these the "the US is bad at xxx" posts just simply ignore the fact that Africa, most of Asia and most of South America are way worse than our country in almost everything, including the things you just mentioned.

You may be right, but you are contradicting a statement that is pretty common.  In looking for evidence one way or another the best I could find is this which contradicts your assertion  or maybe this  or possibly .

 

[Shula-holic]

You may be right, but you are contradicting a statement that is pretty common.  In looking for evidence one way or another the best I could find is this which contradicts your assertion  or maybe this  or possibly .

I'm not sure whether to believe the numbers of a country like China, or perhaps the numbers are true and what incarceration there would mean to you and your family is beyond anything we can comprehend.  But if they are 100% true and all else is equal, I'd still opt to keep our freedom and capitalist system than to live in that society.  Maybe some disagree.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I'm not sure whether to believe the numbers of a country like China, or perhaps the numbers are true and what incarceration there would mean to you and your family is beyond anything we can comprehend.  But if they are 100% true and all else is equal, I'd still opt to keep our freedom and capitalist system than to live in that society.  Maybe some disagree.

I think the point is that locking everyone up isn't helping ease the fears of runaway crime in the US.  That being said, I think that Freakonomics article of things that reduced crime rates and things that don't gave a tiny bit of credit to locking anyone and everyone up.  

But my question is whether or not the US is #1 in incarceration rates like you'll have no problem finding in a Google search?  Or is that wrong? (Which I do have a problem supporting.)   

 

[Shula-holic]

I think the point is that locking everyone up isn't helping ease the fears of runaway crime in the US.  That being said, I think that Freakonomics article of things that reduced crime rates and things that don't gave a tiny bit of credit to locking anyone and everyone up.  

But my question is whether or not the US is #1 in incarceration rates like you'll have no problem finding in a Google search?  Or is that wrong? (Which I do have a problem supporting.)   

We probably differ on our opinions.  I think a big issue in this is a breakdown in our society.  Whether that's respect for institutions, family breakdowns, that type of thing.  It's a broad problem and it's not something I feel right in saying just one issue is driving that, but we as a society have declined a good bit IMO.

 

[FairWarning]

We probably differ on our opinions.  I think a big issue in this is a breakdown in our society.  Whether that's respect for institutions, family breakdowns, that type of thing.  It's a broad problem and it's not something I feel right in saying just one issue is driving that, but we as a society have declined a good bit IMO.

Totally agree about the breakdown in our society.  That is the biggest reason between our crime numbers and other similar countries.  

 

[Jayrod]

You may be right, but you are contradicting a statement that is pretty common.  In looking for evidence one way or another the best I could find is this which contradicts your assertion  or maybe this  or possibly .

He also said "one of the weakest social safety nets" which is absolutely false considering the majority of the world has zero social safety nets.

The homeless in our country have more food and shelter than more than half of the world's population.

Not to hold ourselves to a high standard or anything.

Right but there is a difference between this and "OMG, we are the worst country in the world!!!11"

 

[Sand]

“Recent criminal histories of the 595 individuals released on $0 bail in Yolo County were reviewed for any new arrests in the state of California,” said the office on Monday.

“Of the 595 individuals released, 420 were rearrested (70.6 percent) and 123 (20 percent of the overall number or 29 percent of those rearrested) were arrested for a crime of violence.”

70% recidivism from the $0 bail group - yikes.

 

[Summer Wheat]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm

the states with the highest homicide rates are Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Missouri and Arkansas.

Ok, now we just need Fox prime time to gaslight the above facts three hours a night, 5 days a week.

That Soros guy is good.

It is not Soros anymore, he is 92, just like it is not Biden. They are just figure heads.

 

[The Big Donkey]

“Recent criminal histories of the 595 individuals released on $0 bail in Yolo County were reviewed for any new arrests in the state of California,” said the office on Monday.

“Of the 595 individuals released, 420 were rearrested (70.6 percent) and 123 (20 percent of the overall number or 29 percent of those rearrested) were arrested for a crime of violence.”

70% recidivism from the $0 bail group - yikes.

Do the crime, do no time, do more crime. YOLO!!

 

[parasaurolophus]

“Recent criminal histories of the 595 individuals released on $0 bail in Yolo County were reviewed for any new arrests in the state of California,” said the office on Monday.

“Of the 595 individuals released, 420 were rearrested (70.6 percent) and 123 (20 percent of the overall number or 29 percent of those rearrested) were arrested for a crime of violence.”

70% recidivism from the $0 bail group - yikes.

They were framed.

 

[FairWarning]

“Recent criminal histories of the 595 individuals released on $0 bail in Yolo County were reviewed for any new arrests in the state of California,” said the office on Monday.

“Of the 595 individuals released, 420 were rearrested (70.6 percent) and 123 (20 percent of the overall number or 29 percent of those rearrested) were arrested for a crime of violence.”

70% recidivism from the $0 bail group - yikes.

I’m stunned, you think they would appreciate their get out of jail free card.

 

[KarmaPolice]

So we have one of the most punitive legal systems and highest incarceration rates on on the planet. And one of the weakest social safety nets. And all of that has gotten said results. And we need…more of that?


This law and order nonsense is way past out of control. It’s the poverty yo. Easily predictable results of capitalism and corruption run amuck. So you then need a police state to control the droogs you have created.


same people who think $7.25 an hour is aok then want to go crack heads and throw people in the dungeon.


Basic fuedalism.

Or....we just have the most criminals.

It's a possible explanation. Why would that be?

 

[parasaurolophus]

So we have one of the most punitive legal systems and highest incarceration rates on on the planet. And one of the weakest social safety nets. And all of that has gotten said results. And we need…more of that?


This law and order nonsense is way past out of control. It’s the poverty yo. Easily predictable results of capitalism and corruption run amuck. So you then need a police state to control the droogs you have created.


same people who think $7.25 an hour is aok then want to go crack heads and throw people in the dungeon.


Basic fuedalism.

Or....we just have the most criminals.

It's a possible explanation. Why would that be?

Lots of reasons.

Americans care more about superficial things. So stealing brand name clothing or brand name electronics, headphones, phones, etc is more important than the image of being a thief.

Many Americans don't have a proper upbringing so they problem solve using primitive reactions because they haven't been taught otherwise.

There are more guns.

We allow our criminals to repeat offend.

There are more cars.

Many other reasons too.

 

[KarmaPolice]

So we have one of the most punitive legal systems and highest incarceration rates on on the planet. And one of the weakest social safety nets. And all of that has gotten said results. And we need…more of that?


This law and order nonsense is way past out of control. It’s the poverty yo. Easily predictable results of capitalism and corruption run amuck. So you then need a police state to control the droogs you have created.


same people who think $7.25 an hour is aok then want to go crack heads and throw people in the dungeon.


Basic fuedalism.

Or....we just have the most criminals.

It's a possible explanation. Why would that be?

Lots of reasons.

Americans care more about superficial things. So stealing brand name clothing or brand name electronics, headphones, phones, etc is more important than the image of being a thief.

Many Americans don't have a proper upbringing so they problem solve using primitive reactions because they haven't been taught otherwise.

There are more guns.

We allow our criminals to repeat offend.

There are more cars.

Many other reasons too.

I agree with that. Bunch of things, and usually liberals lead with different reasons than conservatives will when you ask that question (ie nothing about poverty and wealth gap in your post)

I think in general we focus on the wrong things and that inflates our #s more than other places. Ie more focus on non-violent offenders + less safety net vs comparable countries?

Also when it's big business, of course we want more locked up.