Which direction is Christianity going? (3 Viewers)

[dgreen]

From the Pope Francis thread:

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the next pope.

Pope Francis was always looked at as a progressive choice that I'm sure wasn't in alignment with many. I'm guessing that they go a little more traditional with the next choice but then again, who knows what may happen.

This post got me wondering which direction Christianity as a whole might be headed in the next couple generations. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I'm starting a new one. While it was eventually locked, we recently had a ton of great religious discussion in @Paddington's thread and hopefully we can continue to do so.

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

 

[belljr]

Without going off the rails hopefully.....

Grew up Methodist.....golden rule was bigly

Where I struggle with organized religion is how mean an angry people are over religion that people are not following their way.

I just try to be nice to people whether you are Catholic, Buddhist, atheist whatever...

"My team" ain't better..... So whatever you choose is between you and God.

I'm not baptized in the traditional sense so technically not going to heaven so hopefully their are some exemptions for being kind

None of it aligns for me....and I'll never understand it

 

[Captain Cranks]

From the Pope Francis thread:

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the next pope.

Pope Francis was always looked at as a progressive choice that I'm sure wasn't in alignment with many. I'm guessing that they go a little more traditional with the next choice but then again, who knows what may happen.

This post got me wondering which direction Christianity as a whole might be headed in the next couple generations. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I'm starting a new one. While it was eventually locked, we recently had a ton of great religious discussion in @Paddington's thread and hopefully we can continue to do so.

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

My guess is the strain that favors power will ultimately consume the strain that values Christ's teachings. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the trajectory we're on.

 

[AAABatteries]

Like the rest of the world, slowly trending more liberal (literal sense of the word, not political :noban: )

 

[dgreen]

Without going off the rails hopefully.....

Grew up Methodist.....golden rule was bigly

Where I struggle with organized religion is how mean an angry people are over religion that people are not following their way.

I just try to be nice to people whether you are Catholic, Buddhist, atheist whatever...

"My team" ain't better..... So whatever you choose is between you and God.

I'm not baptized in the traditional sense so technically not going to heaven so hopefully their are some exemptions for being kind

None of it aligns for me....and I'll never understand it

Have you seen a change in how mean and angry people are over religion?

 

[dgreen]

From the Pope Francis thread:

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the next pope.

Pope Francis was always looked at as a progressive choice that I'm sure wasn't in alignment with many. I'm guessing that they go a little more traditional with the next choice but then again, who knows what may happen.

This post got me wondering which direction Christianity as a whole might be headed in the next couple generations. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I'm starting a new one. While it was eventually locked, we recently had a ton of great religious discussion in @Paddington's thread and hopefully we can continue to do so.

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

My guess is the strain that favors power will ultimately consume the strain that values Christ's teachings. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the trajectory we're on.

What do you mean by “consume”? What would that look like? I think what you’re saying has been the historical cycle. In the church, we talk about a remnant. The faithful remnant remains and rebuilds, and then the growing movement is consumed again, leading to another remnant. Sounds like you see the current cycle as one that is moving towards the smaller remnant.

 

[belljr]

Without going off the rails hopefully.....

Grew up Methodist.....golden rule was bigly

Where I struggle with organized religion is how mean an angry people are over religion that people are not following their way.

I just try to be nice to people whether you are Catholic, Buddhist, atheist whatever...

"My team" ain't better..... So whatever you choose is between you and God.

I'm not baptized in the traditional sense so technically not going to heaven so hopefully their are some exemptions for being kind

None of it aligns for me....and I'll never understand it

Have you seen a change in how mean and angry people are over religion?

Personally maybe a little, I don't attend church but I'll hear a comment here and there from "friends" that are practicing....and I'm am flummoxed at the "gossip".....it could have always been this way and I never noticed

 

[Navin Johnson]

From the Pope Francis thread:

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the next pope.

Pope Francis was always looked at as a progressive choice that I'm sure wasn't in alignment with many. I'm guessing that they go a little more traditional with the next choice but then again, who knows what may happen.

This post got me wondering which direction Christianity as a whole might be headed in the next couple generations. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I'm starting a new one. While it was eventually locked, we recently had a ton of great religious discussion in @Paddington's thread and hopefully we can continue to do so.

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

My guess is the strain that favors power will ultimately consume the strain that values Christ's teachings. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the trajectory we're on.

They already have, pretty much

 

[Captain Cranks]

What do you mean by “consume”? What would that look like? I think what you’re saying has been the historical cycle. In the church, we talk about a remnant. The faithful remnant remains and rebuilds, and then the growing movement is consumed again, leading to another remnant. Sounds like you see the current cycle as one that is moving towards the smaller remnant.

Admittedly I'm not considering a broader history of the faith so I could be missing a longer term trend like you've highlighted. From a shorter term perspective, however, it seems that the thirst for power is "consuming" more and more minds of the Christians in my life, going as far to alter their values. I won't go any further in explaining this phenomenon out of respect for Joe's no politics policy, but I think it's relevant in determining where Christianity as a whole is heading.

 

[General Malaise]

From the Pope Francis thread:

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the next pope.

Pope Francis was always looked at as a progressive choice that I'm sure wasn't in alignment with many. I'm guessing that they go a little more traditional with the next choice but then again, who knows what may happen.

This post got me wondering which direction Christianity as a whole might be headed in the next couple generations. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I'm starting a new one. While it was eventually locked, we recently had a ton of great religious discussion in @Paddington's thread and hopefully we can continue to do so.

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

My guess is the strain that favors power will ultimately consume the strain that values Christ's teachings. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the trajectory we're on.

What do you mean by “consume”? What would that look like? I think what you’re saying has been the historical cycle. In the church, we talk about a remnant. The faithful remnant remains and rebuilds, and then the growing movement is consumed again, leading to another remnant. Sounds like you see the current cycle as one that is moving towards the smaller remnant.

I have to think this "remnant" (a small remaining quantity of something) is dwindling. At the very least, it's aging out and not being replaced by like numbers. If two steadfast practitioners of Christianity die, are two more young Christians there to fill the remnant? Not from what I'm witnessing personally where I live.

Like most in here (probably) I'm considered a part of Generation X. I grew up Christian but gave it up entirely by college. I have 5 kids, none of them are Christian. Doubtful their kids will be either. So with one man's life choice in the 90s I've removed an exponential number of humans to replace the dwindling numbers of Christianity.

And I'm just one. Most of my friends, family and people I know are like me. And again, maybe it's where I live, but I kind of doubt it. GenX is forcing a sea change on Christianity. And now our kids are graduating college and starting families. The pool of remnant replacements is shrinking.

My question is with shrinking numbers overall, how does the Christian faith continue funding itself? Mix in legal settlements, a recession, rising costs how will Christian churches continue to operate financially?

 

[dgreen]

What do you mean by “consume”? What would that look like? I think what you’re saying has been the historical cycle. In the church, we talk about a remnant. The faithful remnant remains and rebuilds, and then the growing movement is consumed again, leading to another remnant. Sounds like you see the current cycle as one that is moving towards the smaller remnant.

Admittedly I'm not considering a broader history of the faith so I could be missing a longer term trend like you've highlighted. From a shorter term perspective, however, it seems that the thirst for power is "consuming" more and more minds of the Christians in my life, going as far to alter their values. I won't go any further in explaining this phenomenon out of respect for Joe's no politics policy, but I think it's relevant in determining where Christianity as a whole is heading.

Yeah, I can see that. Religious leadership has a lot of power and influence. Most people are sheep and things go horribly wrong for both the sheep and the culture in which they live when their shepherd is leading them astray. It will be interesting to see whether the trend that you're talking about continues.

 

[dgreen]

From the Pope Francis thread:

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the next pope.

Pope Francis was always looked at as a progressive choice that I'm sure wasn't in alignment with many. I'm guessing that they go a little more traditional with the next choice but then again, who knows what may happen.

This post got me wondering which direction Christianity as a whole might be headed in the next couple generations. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I'm starting a new one. While it was eventually locked, we recently had a ton of great religious discussion in @Paddington's thread and hopefully we can continue to do so.

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

My guess is the strain that favors power will ultimately consume the strain that values Christ's teachings. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the trajectory we're on.

What do you mean by “consume”? What would that look like? I think what you’re saying has been the historical cycle. In the church, we talk about a remnant. The faithful remnant remains and rebuilds, and then the growing movement is consumed again, leading to another remnant. Sounds like you see the current cycle as one that is moving towards the smaller remnant.

I have to think this "remnant" (a small remaining quantity of something) is dwindling. At the very least, it's aging out and not being replaced by like numbers. If two steadfast practitioners of Christianity die, are two more young Christians there to fill the remnant? Not from what I'm witnessing personally where I live.

Like most in here (probably) I'm considered a part of Generation X. I grew up Christian but gave it up entirely by college. I have 5 kids, none of them are Christian. Doubtful their kids will be either. So with one man's life choice in the 90s I've removed an exponential number of humans to replace the dwindling numbers of Christianity.

And I'm just one. Most of my friends, family and people I know are like me. And again, maybe it's where I live, but I kind of doubt it. GenX is forcing a sea change on Christianity. And now our kids are graduating college and starting families. The pool of remnant replacements is shrinking.

My question is with shrinking numbers overall, how does the Christian faith continue funding itself? Mix in legal settlements, a recession, rising costs how will Christian churches continue to operate financially?

Yeah, many churches have struggled financially for a while. However, I think I've heard there's some evidence of younger generations starting to go to church and reversing that trend. And I believe there are quite a few who have left "church" but still focus on Christianity. There have been some books out about the basic of idea that some people felt like they had to leave church in order to find Christ. I wonder if the future of Christianity is one that is separate from "church" or at least a new type of church that looks very different.

 

[General Malaise]

From the Pope Francis thread:

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the next pope.

Pope Francis was always looked at as a progressive choice that I'm sure wasn't in alignment with many. I'm guessing that they go a little more traditional with the next choice but then again, who knows what may happen.

This post got me wondering which direction Christianity as a whole might be headed in the next couple generations. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I'm starting a new one. While it was eventually locked, we recently had a ton of great religious discussion in @Paddington's thread and hopefully we can continue to do so.

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

My guess is the strain that favors power will ultimately consume the strain that values Christ's teachings. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the trajectory we're on.

What do you mean by “consume”? What would that look like? I think what you’re saying has been the historical cycle. In the church, we talk about a remnant. The faithful remnant remains and rebuilds, and then the growing movement is consumed again, leading to another remnant. Sounds like you see the current cycle as one that is moving towards the smaller remnant.

I have to think this "remnant" (a small remaining quantity of something) is dwindling. At the very least, it's aging out and not being replaced by like numbers. If two steadfast practitioners of Christianity die, are two more young Christians there to fill the remnant? Not from what I'm witnessing personally where I live.

Like most in here (probably) I'm considered a part of Generation X. I grew up Christian but gave it up entirely by college. I have 5 kids, none of them are Christian. Doubtful their kids will be either. So with one man's life choice in the 90s I've removed an exponential number of humans to replace the dwindling numbers of Christianity.

And I'm just one. Most of my friends, family and people I know are like me. And again, maybe it's where I live, but I kind of doubt it. GenX is forcing a sea change on Christianity. And now our kids are graduating college and starting families. The pool of remnant replacements is shrinking.

My question is with shrinking numbers overall, how does the Christian faith continue funding itself? Mix in legal settlements, a recession, rising costs how will Christian churches continue to operate financially?

Yeah, many churches have struggled financially for a while. However, I think I've heard there's some evidence of younger generations starting to go to church and reversing that trend. And I believe there are quite a few who have left "church" but still focus on Christianity. There have been some books out about the basic of idea that some people felt like they had to leave church in order to find Christ. I wonder if the future of Christianity is one that is separate from "church" or at least a new type of church that looks very different.

Well, I will say the teachings of Christ and the Christians who have held power in this country are incongruous and have been since the arrival of Christian immigrants to America.

In short order, Christians committed acts of genocide against Native Americans, enslaved African Americans, went to war with other nations for reasons not found in Christ's teachings and now govern under the guise of being Christians without practicing his teachings.

The ask now is for younger generations to fund this sort of hypocritical behavior and I don't think you'll find much throughput. It's nearly impossible to lay out the true teachings of Christ and point to how they're being deployed by leadership currently. It's incongruous.

 

[Captain Cranks]

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

I'm curious how/where you see it going. Hopefully more optimistic than the responses so far.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Don't like the question. In my view "Christianity" is timeless and not changed. The principles and the lessons are today what they were 50 years after Jesus' death. "Christians" on the other hand have greatly changed. The biggest question we'll start answering in our lifetimes will be if Christians start to mirror Jesus' teachings more or less. Right now it looks like a full on sprint away for the most "conservative" of the faith, which is what happened during the Crusades. At the same time there is a segment gravitating to Jesus and his teachings.

 

[General Malaise]

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

I'm curious how/where you see it going. Hopefully more optimistic than the responses so far.

I think if you polled GenX and asked their experience with Christianity, the majority would respond with "it's how I was raised. I had no choice, it's just what we did." That's my personal experience. Sunday school, church, Bible study, church retreats, summer camps at church, etc, etc. I wonder how many of us have the same experience?

Fast forward to now. How many of us force the same on our kids? I'm guessing the number is much smaller. And I'm not talking about the casual church attendee, the "Chreasters" if you will. How many of us in GenX force Christianity on our kids the way it was forced upon us?

To me, it's becoming a math problem for the Christian faith. Where is the recruitment for the people dying off? Who picks up the 10% tithe of Gladys who died last week and paid her dues religiously? The light bills aren't decreasing. Heating churches are expensive. Where's the future revenue coming from?

 

[dgreen]

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

I'm curious how/where you see it going. Hopefully more optimistic than the responses so far.

I’m really not sure. I don’t live among the group you described, but I’m confident it exists way more than I’d like. I see some of the younger generations who have a real focus on loving others, even if they have left the church and have not inherited their parents’ beliefs. I mostly see a bunch of people who are disgusted by the movement you talk about but also uncomfortable with the things younger people believe and talk about. I’m hopeful that there is a movement in the church to rediscover its mission.

 

[Jayrod]

In my opinion, this is a larger question than was probably intended. Most of the answers seem to be focused on the American or at most the Western church. But for a religion that started in the Middle East as a Jewish sect and now has established followers in every nation of the world, that seems short-sighted.

Also, there are the variations of "Christianity" to consider; from the old established/traditionalist organizations like your Catholic and Orthodox churches to the newer non-denominational churches to the tangent groups like the LDS and JW churches; what a person counts as "Christian" likely varies from person to person. Many of the conservative or more ardent followers likely have narrower definitions than the less devout or liberal.

In the academic sense, the number of people that claim to believe in Jehovah God, Jesus and the Bible is growing globally. It may be losing ground as a percentage of the population, but the number is rising, especially in Southeastern Asia and Africa.

Me personally, I think the Church as a whole is advancing and growing globally while leaving some of the Westernized nations behind as they became more affluent and therefore self-reliant. Jesus' comment that "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven" is playing out in Europe and the US where the average citizen lives a life more wealthy and comfortable than the upper-elites did in Jesus' day. Rich people that are comfortable have no need of a God in this life and our entertainment options keep our minds occupied and we can avoid thinking about the deeper meanings of life or what happens to our souls (if we even have one) after we die.

Being a true disciple of Jesus has been essentially unchanged since the the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost around 33AD. There have been changing traditions, languages, settings and practices, but the gist of Christianity is the same from then until the end of the world. Sure there are a lot of debates and grey areas around the details or how that plays out practically which is where you might see the "evolution" or "changes" in Christianity, but the central themes and concepts are timeless.

I think what you are truly asking is what direction is the Church going? That has been a more flexible concept that is reinvented, evolved and migrates. How the followers of Jesus meet, what they do when they are together and how the organize and govern themselves is as varied and messy as any other area of human history. Right now, the Western Church is very splintered among the various denominations and has been on a rapid decline for the past 30-100 years depending on what you are looking at.

To answer what I think was your main question: I think the American church is going to become both more liberal/casual and less popular. The declining numbers will cause a bunch of people to think the church needs to modernize and a lot of concepts and practices will change. Some churches may go building-less and become a network of like-minded individuals that are casually connected and just meet in each others homes. Some churches may become essentially online only where all of the teaching is through recorded videos and interaction is all zoom calls and chat rooms. There will still be holdout churches that continue to meet in person in a dedicated church building. Many people value the community and in-person interactions enough that it will never fully die. I personally think the church is meant to meet together in person and talk face to face. To interact, sing songs in worship, talk, hug, hold hands, laugh and cry together. I may eventually be in the minority, but that's OK.

 

[dgreen]

Most of the answers seem to be focused on the American or at most the Western church.

Yep. I think that's what is easiest for us to discuss, but I'd love to learn from anyone who might know what's going on in other parts of the world. I think a lot of Western Christianity is either focused on overreaching (that power hungry approach @Captain Cranks talked about) or greatly limiting the scope by primarily focusing on what goes on for an 1+ hour on Sunday morning within the walls of their church building. My guess is neither of those things are of most importance in poorer countries where Christianity is growing the most.

 

[Slumpbusters]

Kind of interesting this comes up because we went to Easter service and it generated a big discussion in our little family (we only have 1 kid, age 16).

I think it varies some regionally, and I live in conservative Indiana so I write this in that context. (I am mostly centrist, fiscal conservative socially liberal but not heavily leaning in either direction)

Historically people followed Christianity out of tradition, reverence (fear), or potentially ignorance. It created a place of safety and consistency while acting as a moral policing of society ultimately creating a better existence for everyone. (Big caveat on this because there is the killing/crusade/witchcraft rabbit hole you can go down, I'm thinking normal small town practice of actual Christianity).

I think some big things have happened:

1) Commercialization - they need to make the experience enjoyable (coffee, good music, modern environment) but authentic and humble. Incredibly difficult balance to strike.

2) Messaging - the modern church seems to have lost sight of the important messaging. People are no longer willing to accept "this is the truth and you must believe it or you are going to hell". People are much more globalized and exposed to very good and very spiritual folks of all religions and need brass tax understanding of why Christianity makes the most sense (a better focus on the apologetics). They also demand resolution of the question about the afterlife for people who aren't Christians.

3) Hyprocricy - modern day Christians are viewed as extremely judgemental and holier than thou while throwing extremely large stones in glass houses (goes back to humility). This includes many of these mega church pastors who find local or even sometimes regional fame and then experience a major fall from grace. Also marginalization of minorities and lifestyle communities is no longer accepted and the church needs to reconcile that.

The best we've found in my area is a church called St Luke's, which is a large Methodist church here. They do a pretty dang good job of all of the above, but the music has become pretty bad which takes away from the overall experience (see point 1). It shouldn't, I know, but it does.

I don't really know my overall point but it felt good to type the above out.

Cheers!

 

[Slumpbusters]

Most of the answers seem to be focused on the American or at most the Western church.

Yep. I think that's what is easiest for us to discuss, but I'd love to learn from anyone who might know what's going on in other parts of the world. I think a lot of Western Christianity is either focused on overreaching (that power hungry approach @Captain Cranks talked about) or greatly limiting the scope by primarily focusing on what goes on for an 1+ hour on Sunday morning within the walls of their church building. My guess is neither of those things are of most importance in poorer countries where Christianity is growing the most.

We had the good fortune to tour Greece a couple years back, and our tour included a number of small towns in the mainland.

The church was the center of each of these small towns, and EVERYONE went. It was a Greek Orthodox service (of course) that lasted about three hours. People would come in and out during the service, get breakfast, have coffee in the square, step outside for conversation, go back in. It was integrated into their society and largely unchanged for the last 1000 years or so. It was super fascinating and I was honestly a bit jealous of the lifestyle as this was a consistent part of building and maintaining their little community.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

I'm curious how/where you see it going. Hopefully more optimistic than the responses so far.

I think if you polled GenX and asked their experience with Christianity, the majority would respond with "it's how I was raised. I had no choice, it's just what we did." That's my personal experience. Sunday school, church, Bible study, church retreats, summer camps at church, etc, etc. I wonder how many of us have the same experience?

Fast forward to now. How many of us force the same on our kids? I'm guessing the number is much smaller. And I'm not talking about the casual church attendee, the "Chreasters" if you will. How many of us in GenX force Christianity on our kids the way it was forced upon us?

To me, it's becoming a math problem for the Christian faith. Where is the recruitment for the people dying off? Who picks up the 10% tithe of Gladys who died last week and paid her dues religiously? The light bills aren't decreasing. Heating churches are expensive. Where's the future revenue coming from?

This was my experience being raised Catholic. Church every Sunday, Sunday school, the whole 9 yards, none of it was optional for me. Somewhere around my junior year in high school i decided none of it was for me, this went over poorly and likely pushed me farther away. I'm spiritual and love learning/reading about other religions/beliefs and would never criticize anyone's else's, but what i was taught doesn't resonate with me and if given other options as a youngster i doubt very much Catholicism/Christianity would have been my choice. It's a great big world and there are other options.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

@dgreen I don't have much to add to this discussion. And I'm not a practicing Christian. But I wanted to tell you that I think you are one of the kindest, most thoughtful posters on this message board. I've seen it over the decades, even if we've rarely interacted.

 

[dgreen]

@dgreen I don't have much to add to this discussion. And I'm not a practicing Christian. But I wanted to tell you that I think you are one of the kindest, most thoughtful posters on this message board. I've seen it over the decades, even if we've rarely interacted.

Thanks, Uruk. That means a lot.

 

[BassNBrew]

From the Pope Francis thread:

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the next pope.

Pope Francis was always looked at as a progressive choice that I'm sure wasn't in alignment with many. I'm guessing that they go a little more traditional with the next choice but then again, who knows what may happen.

This post got me wondering which direction Christianity as a whole might be headed in the next couple generations. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I'm starting a new one. While it was eventually locked, we recently had a ton of great religious discussion in @Paddington's thread and hopefully we can continue to do so.

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

My guess is the strain that favors power will ultimately consume the strain that values Christ's teachings. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the trajectory we're on.

What do you mean by “consume”? What would that look like? I think what you’re saying has been the historical cycle. In the church, we talk about a remnant. The faithful remnant remains and rebuilds, and then the growing movement is consumed again, leading to another remnant. Sounds like you see the current cycle as one that is moving towards the smaller remnant.

I have to think this "remnant" (a small remaining quantity of something) is dwindling. At the very least, it's aging out and not being replaced by like numbers. If two steadfast practitioners of Christianity die, are two more young Christians there to fill the remnant? Not from what I'm witnessing personally where I live.

Like most in here (probably) I'm considered a part of Generation X. I grew up Christian but gave it up entirely by college. I have 5 kids, none of them are Christian. Doubtful their kids will be either. So with one man's life choice in the 90s I've removed an exponential number of humans to replace the dwindling numbers of Christianity.

And I'm just one. Most of my friends, family and people I know are like me. And again, maybe it's where I live, but I kind of doubt it. GenX is forcing a sea change on Christianity. And now our kids are graduating college and starting families. The pool of remnant replacements is shrinking.

My question is with shrinking numbers overall, how does the Christian faith continue funding itself? Mix in legal settlements, a recession, rising costs how will Christian churches continue to operate financially?

I live in the Southeast and there seems to be no shortage of fancy new churches go up in addtion to every movie theater being turned into a church. Someone has to be financing this.

 

[HomerSimpson]

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

I'm curious how/where you see it going. Hopefully more optimistic than the responses so far.

I think if you polled GenX and asked their experience with Christianity, the majority would respond with "it's how I was raised. I had no choice, it's just what we did." That's my personal experience. Sunday school, church, Bible study, church retreats, summer camps at church, etc, etc. I wonder how many of us have the same experience?

Fast forward to now. How many of us force the same on our kids? I'm guessing the number is much smaller. And I'm not talking about the casual church attendee, the "Chreasters" if you will. How many of us in GenX force Christianity on our kids the way it was forced upon us?

To me, it's becoming a math problem for the Christian faith. Where is the recruitment for the people dying off? Who picks up the 10% tithe of Gladys who died last week and paid her dues religiously? The light bills aren't decreasing. Heating churches are expensive. Where's the future revenue coming from?

This was my experience being raised Catholic. Church every Sunday, Sunday school, the whole 9 yards, none of it was optional for me. Somewhere around my junior year in high school i decided none of it was for me, this went over poorly and likely pushed me farther away. I'm spiritual and love learning/reading about other religions/beliefs and would never criticize anyone's else's, but what i was taught doesn't resonate with me and if given other options as a youngster i doubt very much Catholicism/Christianity would have been my choice. It's a great big world and there are other options.

Raised Catholic. The only choice we had was 7am mass with no singing or 10am mass with singing. Usually me, my brother and sister chose to wake up early just to get it over with (the singing was horrible). They did give out free donuts after. All 3 of us are atheists now as our parents still go multiple times per week.

 

[General Malaise]

From the Pope Francis thread:

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the next pope.

Pope Francis was always looked at as a progressive choice that I'm sure wasn't in alignment with many. I'm guessing that they go a little more traditional with the next choice but then again, who knows what may happen.

This post got me wondering which direction Christianity as a whole might be headed in the next couple generations. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I'm starting a new one. While it was eventually locked, we recently had a ton of great religious discussion in @Paddington's thread and hopefully we can continue to do so.

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

My guess is the strain that favors power will ultimately consume the strain that values Christ's teachings. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the trajectory we're on.

What do you mean by “consume”? What would that look like? I think what you’re saying has been the historical cycle. In the church, we talk about a remnant. The faithful remnant remains and rebuilds, and then the growing movement is consumed again, leading to another remnant. Sounds like you see the current cycle as one that is moving towards the smaller remnant.

I have to think this "remnant" (a small remaining quantity of something) is dwindling. At the very least, it's aging out and not being replaced by like numbers. If two steadfast practitioners of Christianity die, are two more young Christians there to fill the remnant? Not from what I'm witnessing personally where I live.

Like most in here (probably) I'm considered a part of Generation X. I grew up Christian but gave it up entirely by college. I have 5 kids, none of them are Christian. Doubtful their kids will be either. So with one man's life choice in the 90s I've removed an exponential number of humans to replace the dwindling numbers of Christianity.

And I'm just one. Most of my friends, family and people I know are like me. And again, maybe it's where I live, but I kind of doubt it. GenX is forcing a sea change on Christianity. And now our kids are graduating college and starting families. The pool of remnant replacements is shrinking.

My question is with shrinking numbers overall, how does the Christian faith continue funding itself? Mix in legal settlements, a recession, rising costs how will Christian churches continue to operate financially?

I live in the Southeast and there seems to be no shortage of fancy new churches go up in addtion to every movie theater being turned into a church. Someone has to be financing this.

I think where I live is the outlier for the US in regards to religion.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

I'm curious how/where you see it going. Hopefully more optimistic than the responses so far.

I think if you polled GenX and asked their experience with Christianity, the majority would respond with "it's how I was raised. I had no choice, it's just what we did." That's my personal experience. Sunday school, church, Bible study, church retreats, summer camps at church, etc, etc. I wonder how many of us have the same experience?

Fast forward to now. How many of us force the same on our kids? I'm guessing the number is much smaller. And I'm not talking about the casual church attendee, the "Chreasters" if you will. How many of us in GenX force Christianity on our kids the way it was forced upon us?

To me, it's becoming a math problem for the Christian faith. Where is the recruitment for the people dying off? Who picks up the 10% tithe of Gladys who died last week and paid her dues religiously? The light bills aren't decreasing. Heating churches are expensive. Where's the future revenue coming from?

Pops is firmly GenX. He was raised in a home where he went to church on Sundays, was active in his youth group and participated in summer camps, VBS and mission trips. He wasn't required to do all of that, but he did have to go to church on Sundays. While he is technically my foster father, I joined his house at age 9. I think he was around 30 at that point and he hadn't had any kids of his own yet (now has 3). He raised me the same way. He has never required that I engage. He only required that I go to church and sunday school. If I wanted to draw on my pad and not really pay attention, that was my choice. As I've gotten older and watched the "grown ups" around me, I have come to realize that this is likely the best (only?) way for people to "get it". I can't count how many disgruntled Christians I've crossed paths with. I see it here all the time in the religious threads. They almost all have one thing in common. They are, for the most part, Catholic or been in the Catholic system of religion at some point. This isn't to dump on Catholicism. Its just an observation I have seen play out time and time again. I've only ever been to a couple different Catholic services and in both I left wondering why they do the things they do.

Pops and I have discussions about that kind of stuff all the time and I've come to realize there is a significant difference between "religion" and following Christ and more often times than not, those approaching their beliefs through religion become pretty disgruntled pretty quick. All the stuff that man tends to add to Biblical teachings in their "interpretations" gets in the way of relationship with God. The more of that stuff there is, the more the focus shifts to that "stuff" than the Bible itself and people begin to wander. So when I see threads like this, the first question I ask myself is "are we talking about the religion or all the core principles the religion is built on?"

 

[Sparky Polastri]

From the Pope Francis thread:

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the next pope.

Pope Francis was always looked at as a progressive choice that I'm sure wasn't in alignment with many. I'm guessing that they go a little more traditional with the next choice but then again, who knows what may happen.

This post got me wondering which direction Christianity as a whole might be headed in the next couple generations. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I'm starting a new one. While it was eventually locked, we recently had a ton of great religious discussion in @Paddington's thread and hopefully we can continue to do so.

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

My guess is the strain that favors power will ultimately consume the strain that values Christ's teachings. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the trajectory we're on.

What do you mean by “consume”? What would that look like? I think what you’re saying has been the historical cycle. In the church, we talk about a remnant. The faithful remnant remains and rebuilds, and then the growing movement is consumed again, leading to another remnant. Sounds like you see the current cycle as one that is moving towards the smaller remnant.

I have to think this "remnant" (a small remaining quantity of something) is dwindling. At the very least, it's aging out and not being replaced by like numbers. If two steadfast practitioners of Christianity die, are two more young Christians there to fill the remnant? Not from what I'm witnessing personally where I live.

Like most in here (probably) I'm considered a part of Generation X. I grew up Christian but gave it up entirely by college. I have 5 kids, none of them are Christian. Doubtful their kids will be either. So with one man's life choice in the 90s I've removed an exponential number of humans to replace the dwindling numbers of Christianity.

And I'm just one. Most of my friends, family and people I know are like me. And again, maybe it's where I live, but I kind of doubt it. GenX is forcing a sea change on Christianity. And now our kids are graduating college and starting families. The pool of remnant replacements is shrinking.

My question is with shrinking numbers overall, how does the Christian faith continue funding itself? Mix in legal settlements, a recession, rising costs how will Christian churches continue to operate financially?

I live in the Southeast and there seems to be no shortage of fancy new churches go up in addtion to every movie theater being turned into a church. Someone has to be financing this.

If its "non denominational" it's almost always the SBC. You just have to dig through the financials to find the link. They are in a major branding crisis.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

From the Pope Francis thread:

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the next pope.

Pope Francis was always looked at as a progressive choice that I'm sure wasn't in alignment with many. I'm guessing that they go a little more traditional with the next choice but then again, who knows what may happen.

This post got me wondering which direction Christianity as a whole might be headed in the next couple generations. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I'm starting a new one. While it was eventually locked, we recently had a ton of great religious discussion in @Paddington's thread and hopefully we can continue to do so.

How has Christianity changed in our lifetimes and where do you see it going?

My guess is the strain that favors power will ultimately consume the strain that values Christ's teachings. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the trajectory we're on.

What do you mean by “consume”? What would that look like? I think what you’re saying has been the historical cycle. In the church, we talk about a remnant. The faithful remnant remains and rebuilds, and then the growing movement is consumed again, leading to another remnant. Sounds like you see the current cycle as one that is moving towards the smaller remnant.

I have to think this "remnant" (a small remaining quantity of something) is dwindling. At the very least, it's aging out and not being replaced by like numbers. If two steadfast practitioners of Christianity die, are two more young Christians there to fill the remnant? Not from what I'm witnessing personally where I live.

Like most in here (probably) I'm considered a part of Generation X. I grew up Christian but gave it up entirely by college. I have 5 kids, none of them are Christian. Doubtful their kids will be either. So with one man's life choice in the 90s I've removed an exponential number of humans to replace the dwindling numbers of Christianity.

And I'm just one. Most of my friends, family and people I know are like me. And again, maybe it's where I live, but I kind of doubt it. GenX is forcing a sea change on Christianity. And now our kids are graduating college and starting families. The pool of remnant replacements is shrinking.

My question is with shrinking numbers overall, how does the Christian faith continue funding itself? Mix in legal settlements, a recession, rising costs how will Christian churches continue to operate financially?

I live in the Southeast and there seems to be no shortage of fancy new churches go up in addtion to every movie theater being turned into a church. Someone has to be financing this.

Upper great lakes and very similar. Old malls, closed big box stores, ect. all becoming non denomination type churches.

 

[dgreen]

So when I see threads like this, the first question I ask myself is "are we talking about the religion or all the core principles the religion is built on?"

My intention was more about which direction the people of the religion are going. For a concrete example, there's the core principle of loving your neighbor. Will future Christians move towards that and embrace it in their daily walk or move away from it and focus more on things like power and building the Christian empire? Or interact with it in some other way? And then I think this thread has also discussed whether or not Christians will fulfill their obligation to love their neighbor within the framework of a church/congregation or will it mostly happen outside of that if they don't see the church/congregation caring about loving their neighbor. I find that angle to be pretty interesting.

 

[dgreen]

I think where I live is the outlier for the US in regards to religion.

Yeah, Portland (if my notebook is correct) is probably way different than the SE. It is home to the Bible Project, though, which IMO is one of the best organizations out there related to Christianity. They have fantastic content based on good scholarship.

 

[AAABatteries]

So when I see threads like this, the first question I ask myself is "are we talking about the religion or all the core principles the religion is built on?"

My intention was more about which direction the people of the religion are going. For a concrete example, there's the core principle of loving your neighbor. Will future Christians move towards that and embrace it in their daily walk or move away from it and focus more on things like power and building the Christian empire? Or interact with it in some other way? And then I think this thread has also discussed whether or not Christians will fulfill their obligation to love their neighbor within the framework of a church/congregation or will it mostly happen outside of that if they don't see the church/congregation caring about loving their neighbor. I find that angle to be pretty interesting.

I've always been perplexed by the folks who are or claim to be huge Christians but also do things that seem to be the antithesis of loving their neighbor. Can't really expound much on this but it's rampant with a decent percentage of Christians. And I'm talking about local and abroad. The perception by many is that they love you if you conform to how they think the world should be. If you don't then they seem to have little use for you.

 

[dickey moe]

Not just at Easter: Gen Z is returning to Christianity. Data proves it. | Opinion

As Christians, we can rejoice in our neighbors' newfound openness to faith because we have this strange belief about death and life.

www.usatoday.com

 

[dgreen]

So when I see threads like this, the first question I ask myself is "are we talking about the religion or all the core principles the religion is built on?"

My intention was more about which direction the people of the religion are going. For a concrete example, there's the core principle of loving your neighbor. Will future Christians move towards that and embrace it in their daily walk or move away from it and focus more on things like power and building the Christian empire? Or interact with it in some other way? And then I think this thread has also discussed whether or not Christians will fulfill their obligation to love their neighbor within the framework of a church/congregation or will it mostly happen outside of that if they don't see the church/congregation caring about loving their neighbor. I find that angle to be pretty interesting.

I've always been perplexed by the folks who are or claim to be huge Christians but also do things that seem to be the antithesis of loving their neighbor. Can't really expound much on this but it's rampant with a decent percentage of Christians. And I'm talking about local and abroad. The perception by many is that they love you if you conform to how they think the world should be. If you don't then they seem to have little use for you.

I've become convinced that we have an education problem. I think many of the people you describe think they are doing what God wants them to do. And I think that's mostly because of poor leadership who, at best, is uneducated themselves and providing poor teaching or, at worst, is intentionally manipulating their sheep for their own gain of power and influence.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

So when I see threads like this, the first question I ask myself is "are we talking about the religion or all the core principles the religion is built on?"

My intention was more about which direction the people of the religion are going. For a concrete example, there's the core principle of loving your neighbor. Will future Christians move towards that and embrace it in their daily walk or move away from it and focus more on things like power and building the Christian empire? Or interact with it in some other way? And then I think this thread has also discussed whether or not Christians will fulfill their obligation to love their neighbor within the framework of a church/congregation or will it mostly happen outside of that if they don't see the church/congregation caring about loving their neighbor. I find that angle to be pretty interesting.

So, I'll push back on this just a little bit. What you are describing as a "core principle", I would see as a fruit boren or "evidence that you are a Christ follower" etc (my opinion of course). I genuinely believe the only real question we have to ask is "Are Christians becoming more Christ like or less Christ like?" Meaning, are they modeling their lives more like Christ or less? The evidence will show you pretty clearly where it's all headed. But its really important to be intentional in looking for the evidence. Social media has completely turned perception/evidence/truth on its head.

 

[ChiefD]

I'm disenchanted by it all because Love Thy Neighbor now means Love Thy Neighbor Except Those That Don't Believe What I Do.

That doesn't fly with me.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

I genuinely believe the only real question we have to ask is "Are Christians becoming more Christ like or less Christ like?"

Without any math to support this, I'm fairly confident that the answer is the same as it has been since Pentecost: yesno.

 

[TripItUp]

Christianity has ebbs and flows....whatever trends there are now will subside and or go the other way eventually. How and why is anybody's guess.

 

[General Malaise]

I think where I live is the outlier for the US in regards to religion.

Yeah, Portland (if my notebook is correct) is probably way different than the SE. It is home to the Bible Project, though, which IMO is one of the best organizations out there related to Christianity. They have fantastic content based on good scholarship.

Correct on location and yes, there are certainly some religious people, some beautiful churches all around and an uptick in traffic around those churches on Sundays, it's quite a different feel (vibe) than the one I had growing up in Texas or going to college in Mississippi.

 

[Mister CIA]

Christianity has ebbs and flows....whatever trends there are now will subside and or go the other way eventually. How and why is anybody's guess.

Are you suggesting that there will be another Spanish Inquiition?

 

[beer 30]

Christianity has ebbs and flows....whatever trends there are now will subside and or go the other way eventually. How and why is anybody's guess.

Are you suggesting that there will be another Spanish Inquisition?

It was mentioned upthread but we are looking at religion through the lens of an American and regardless of your station in life, we are privileged beyond measure simply by the luck of being born here. When I look at the Middle East or Africa and some of the persecutions religions inflict on one another it would be hard to argue that not only has the Inquisition come back but has come back 10 fold.

 

[General Malaise]

I don't want to derail this thread because it's a good one, so feel free to delete this (or I'm happy to do so) but saw this today and it just made me think about your thread.

This is the sort of thing that irritates me to no end. The true teachings of Jesus Christ are far more aligned with Pope Francis than the people shouting loudly that they want a 'different' sort of Pope this time around. It's often the vocal minority that screams the loudest and gets the attention - amplified by social media - but it really irks me that a group of people who claim to be Christian say and do things that are incongruous to the true teachings of Jesus.

 

[beer 30]

I don't want to derail this thread because it's a good one, so feel free to delete this (or I'm happy to do so) but saw this today and it just made me think about your thread.

This is the sort of thing that irritates me to no end. The true teachings of Jesus Christ are far more aligned with Pope Francis than the people shouting loudly that they want a 'different' sort of Pope this time around. It's often the vocal minority that screams the loudest and gets the attention - amplified by social media - but it really irks me that a group of people who claim to be Christian say and do things that are incongruous to the true teachings of Jesus.

Agree 1000% So many churches these days preach their version of the bible or simply don't crack the book open at all. There is a megachurch in Charlotte, Elevation, who's pastor Steven Furtick is simply a motivational speaker that infuses Christianity when it suits but boy does he put on a good show. It's a concert level presentation with a message sandwiched in there somewhere. I understand it appeals to an audience and with attendance well over 10,000 on various campuses around the city, it obviously appeals to a lot of folks. It's not what I look for from church and if I'm being honest, I don't really consider it a church.

Which circles back to a theme in this thread, Christians being judgmental so I should probably just shut up.

 

[hagmania]

Christianity has ebbs and flows....whatever trends there are now will subside and or go the other way eventually. How and why is anybody's guess.

Are you suggesting that there will be another Spanish Inquiition?

Seems likely now, as certainly nobody would expect another.

 

[General Malaise]

I don't want to derail this thread because it's a good one, so feel free to delete this (or I'm happy to do so) but saw this today and it just made me think about your thread.

This is the sort of thing that irritates me to no end. The true teachings of Jesus Christ are far more aligned with Pope Francis than the people shouting loudly that they want a 'different' sort of Pope this time around. It's often the vocal minority that screams the loudest and gets the attention - amplified by social media - but it really irks me that a group of people who claim to be Christian say and do things that are incongruous to the true teachings of Jesus.

Agree 1000% So many churches these days preach their version of the bible or simply don't crack the book open at all. There is a megachurch in Charlotte, Elevation, who's pastor Steven Furtick is simply a motivational speaker that infuses Christianity when it suits but boy does he put on a good show. It's a concert level presentation with a message sandwiched in there somewhere. I understand it appeals to an audience and with attendance well over 10,000 on various campuses around the city, it obviously appeals to a lot of folks. It's not what I look for from church and if I'm being honest, I don't really consider it a church.

Which circles back to a theme in this thread, Christians being judgmental so I should probably just shut up.

Well, to be fair, there's a non-Christian in here being judgmental too, so I should probably do the same. Thanks for the reply, GB.

 

[beer 30]

I don't want to derail this thread because it's a good one, so feel free to delete this (or I'm happy to do so) but saw this today and it just made me think about your thread.

This is the sort of thing that irritates me to no end. The true teachings of Jesus Christ are far more aligned with Pope Francis than the people shouting loudly that they want a 'different' sort of Pope this time around. It's often the vocal minority that screams the loudest and gets the attention - amplified by social media - but it really irks me that a group of people who claim to be Christian say and do things that are incongruous to the true teachings of Jesus.

Agree 1000% So many churches these days preach their version of the bible or simply don't crack the book open at all. There is a megachurch in Charlotte, Elevation, who's pastor Steven Furtick is simply a motivational speaker that infuses Christianity when it suits but boy does he put on a good show. It's a concert level presentation with a message sandwiched in there somewhere. I understand it appeals to an audience and with attendance well over 10,000 on various campuses around the city, it obviously appeals to a lot of folks. It's not what I look for from church and if I'm being honest, I don't really consider it a church.

Which circles back to a theme in this thread, Christians being judgmental so I should probably just shut up.

Well, to be fair, there's a non-Christian in here being judgmental too, so I should probably do the same. Thanks for the reply, GB.

Maybe we should just go have a beer?

 

[General Malaise]

I don't want to derail this thread because it's a good one, so feel free to delete this (or I'm happy to do so) but saw this today and it just made me think about your thread.

This is the sort of thing that irritates me to no end. The true teachings of Jesus Christ are far more aligned with Pope Francis than the people shouting loudly that they want a 'different' sort of Pope this time around. It's often the vocal minority that screams the loudest and gets the attention - amplified by social media - but it really irks me that a group of people who claim to be Christian say and do things that are incongruous to the true teachings of Jesus.

Agree 1000% So many churches these days preach their version of the bible or simply don't crack the book open at all. There is a megachurch in Charlotte, Elevation, who's pastor Steven Furtick is simply a motivational speaker that infuses Christianity when it suits but boy does he put on a good show. It's a concert level presentation with a message sandwiched in there somewhere. I understand it appeals to an audience and with attendance well over 10,000 on various campuses around the city, it obviously appeals to a lot of folks. It's not what I look for from church and if I'm being honest, I don't really consider it a church.

Which circles back to a theme in this thread, Christians being judgmental so I should probably just shut up.

Well, to be fair, there's a non-Christian in here being judgmental too, so I should probably do the same. Thanks for the reply, GB.

Maybe we should just go have a beer?

Been waiting 25 years for this invite!

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm disenchanted by it all because Love Thy Neighbor now means Love Thy Neighbor Except Those That Don't Believe What I Do.

That doesn't fly with me.

That's a real point @ChiefD

I think the answer really though is not to accept that action.

Love your Neighbor should be Love your Neighbor.

If some people mess that up, the idea is still just as valid.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thanks @dgreen for the thread.

Semi Related, I thought this was super interesting with Bill Maher talking to Charlie Kirk. There's a small bit of politics I hope we can avoid. Most of the conversation is about their views on religion. And both guys have strong opinions there. Thought it was interesting.

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