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who blew up the nord stream 1 and 2 pipelines (1 Viewer)

(HULK)

(Smash)
Man, I opened this thinking they'd figured out who.

It could be so many different countries, I have no clue.
 

tymarsas

Footballguy
I don't know, but if I was a betting man I would be betting on Putin. He's been getting more and more desperate to change the narrative. Recruiting criminals, mobilizing old men, fake referendums, granting citizenship to Snowden.
 
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Sand

Footballguy
Who has the capability to get a boat out there, send divers down 300ft. and plant bombs? That doesn't leave a huge number of suspects. I doubt Ukraine did this, for example. My stock answer is Putin, but I'm not sure why he'd sabotage that kind of money flow (assuming gas resumes at some point).

It is interesting this occurred right outside NATO controlled waters. Things that make you go hmmm...
 

tymarsas

Footballguy
Putin has already shown that he is willing to attack infrastructure in Ukraine and use energy as a weapon against Europe. I don't see why it would surprise anyone that he would blow up a pipeline. He gets 2 things out of it, he can say "not my fault" when Europeans are paying insane prices for energy this winter and he gets to blame the US. He had already shut it off so not sure why blowing it up would be much different.
 

timschochet

Footballguy
I honestly think people who post “Biden” or “Trump”, even as a question or joke, even suggesting that the “other side” will make this claim, should be suspended.
 

BladeRunner

Footballguy
I would not doubt at all if Putin did it. Like @tymarsas mentioned earlier, he can play the "not me" game and watch everyone scramble. It's designed to cause chaos, but there is also another angle he gets to take: It takes focus off of Ukraine. "Look at this shiny object here! outrage! Who could it be? The USA?"

Throughout the entire history of man, we have numerous examples of leaders attacking their own people/infrastructure, blamed it on the other guy and then used it as a catalyst to do some truly awful things OR to usher themselves into power. In fact, if I understand correctly, this is exactly how Putin came to power himself, wasn't it?
 

Battersbox

Footballguy
By all accounts military operations are going horribly for Putin. Wasn't the carrot of turning the flow of gas back on the only bargaining chip Putin had to negotiate a cease fire that gave him any concessions at all? Why would he blow up his only leverage?
 

tymarsas

Footballguy
Another interesting development in the last few days is Prigozhin admitting that he founded and owned Wagner. Is it a threat to Putin? Is Prigozhin trying to show Putin that he is no longer under his thumb? If Putin doesn't get Ukraine under control, will Wagner be used against Putin? Putin is feeling the pressure internationally and domestically.
 

The General

Footballguy
By all accounts military operations are going horribly for Putin. Wasn't the carrot of turning the flow of gas back on the only bargaining chip Putin had to negotiate a cease fire that gave him any concessions at all? Why would he blow up his only leverage?
Chaos and betting that he can have his people suffer longer than multiple European countries can.

Food for thought
 

Dezbelief

Footballguy
Another interesting development in the last few days is Prigozhin admitting that he founded and owned Wagner. Is it a threat to Putin? Is Prigozhin trying to show Putin that he is no longer under his thumb? If Putin doesn't get Ukraine under control, will Wagner be used against Putin? Putin is feeling the pressure internationally and domestically.
Russians but not Putin, interesting. This theory just kept me from going all in on Putin.
 
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The Commish

Footballguy
Dollars to donuts it was Vlad. He’s a cornered animal.
Where I'd put my money too. Leverage is for suckers who want to negotiate. He's not interested, in any fashion, in negotiations. The world is likely going to have to take action. A stunt like this is a mere distraction and/or desperate attempt to win over some sympathy. That's it.
 

Battersbox

Footballguy
By all accounts military operations are going horribly for Putin. Wasn't the carrot of turning the flow of gas back on the only bargaining chip Putin had to negotiate a cease fire that gave him any concessions at all? Why would he blow up his only leverage?
Chaos and betting that he can have his people suffer longer than multiple European countries can.

Food for thought
But he could already make the Europeans suffer. He controls the flow. I don't get it.
 

The General

Footballguy
By all accounts military operations are going horribly for Putin. Wasn't the carrot of turning the flow of gas back on the only bargaining chip Putin had to negotiate a cease fire that gave him any concessions at all? Why would he blow up his only leverage?
Chaos and betting that he can have his people suffer longer than multiple European countries can.

Food for thought
But he could already make the Europeans suffer. He controls the flow. I don't get it.
Nord 2 has never been opened and Nord 1 was shutdown. Germany told Russia to pound sand and has ramped up that language in past few weeks. The main powers in Europe have begun to move on. This pushes the markets into chaos putting strain on Europe.

Vlad has shown he has little regard for his people when it comes to his power. Europe has many countries, many different leaders each with their own political situations. Leverage play…my guess at least. We’ll never know.

If normal leadership returns to Russia these will be repaired and turned back on.
 

Battersbox

Footballguy
By all accounts military operations are going horribly for Putin. Wasn't the carrot of turning the flow of gas back on the only bargaining chip Putin had to negotiate a cease fire that gave him any concessions at all? Why would he blow up his only leverage?
Chaos and betting that he can have his people suffer longer than multiple European countries can.

Food for thought
But he could already make the Europeans suffer. He controls the flow. I don't get it.
Nord 2 has never been opened and Nord 1 was shutdown. Germany told Russia to pound sand and has ramped up that language in past few weeks. The main powers in Europe have begun to move on. This pushes the markets into chaos putting strain on Europe.

Vlad has shown he has little regard for his people when it comes to his power. Europe has many countries, many different leaders each with their own political situations. Leverage play…my guess at least. We’ll never know.

If normal leadership returns to Russia these will be repaired and turned back on.
This still doesn't adequately explain why blowing up these pipelines is a smart move for Putin.
 

The General

Footballguy
By all accounts military operations are going horribly for Putin. Wasn't the carrot of turning the flow of gas back on the only bargaining chip Putin had to negotiate a cease fire that gave him any concessions at all? Why would he blow up his only leverage?
Chaos and betting that he can have his people suffer longer than multiple European countries can.

Food for thought
But he could already make the Europeans suffer. He controls the flow. I don't get it.
Nord 2 has never been opened and Nord 1 was shutdown. Germany told Russia to pound sand and has ramped up that language in past few weeks. The main powers in Europe have begun to move on. This pushes the markets into chaos putting strain on Europe.

Vlad has shown he has little regard for his people when it comes to his power. Europe has many countries, many different leaders each with their own political situations. Leverage play…my guess at least. We’ll never know.

If normal leadership returns to Russia these will be repaired and turned back on.
This still doesn't adequately explain why blowing up these pipelines is a smart move for Putin.
Chaos in the energy markets in EU / NATO. I’m sure their people freak out over the cost per liter of fuel just like we do. Start asking questions like why are we doing this still?
 

The General

Footballguy

Battersbox

Footballguy
By all accounts military operations are going horribly for Putin. Wasn't the carrot of turning the flow of gas back on the only bargaining chip Putin had to negotiate a cease fire that gave him any concessions at all? Why would he blow up his only leverage?
Chaos and betting that he can have his people suffer longer than multiple European countries can.

Food for thought
But he could already make the Europeans suffer. He controls the flow. I don't get it.
Nord 2 has never been opened and Nord 1 was shutdown. Germany told Russia to pound sand and has ramped up that language in past few weeks. The main powers in Europe have begun to move on. This pushes the markets into chaos putting strain on Europe.

Vlad has shown he has little regard for his people when it comes to his power. Europe has many countries, many different leaders each with their own political situations. Leverage play…my guess at least. We’ll never know.

If normal leadership returns to Russia these will be repaired and turned back on.
This still doesn't adequately explain why blowing up these pipelines is a smart move for Putin.
Chaos in the energy markets in EU / NATO. I’m sure their people freak out over the cost per liter of fuel just like we do. Start asking questions like why are we doing this still?
But gas flowing through those pipelines is what would calm markets, and Putin was the one who had the ability to make the gas flow again. Now that's an impossibility. Just doesn't make sense to me.
 

The General

Footballguy
By all accounts military operations are going horribly for Putin. Wasn't the carrot of turning the flow of gas back on the only bargaining chip Putin had to negotiate a cease fire that gave him any concessions at all? Why would he blow up his only leverage?
Chaos and betting that he can have his people suffer longer than multiple European countries can.

Food for thought
But he could already make the Europeans suffer. He controls the flow. I don't get it.
Nord 2 has never been opened and Nord 1 was shutdown. Germany told Russia to pound sand and has ramped up that language in past few weeks. The main powers in Europe have begun to move on. This pushes the markets into chaos putting strain on Europe.

Vlad has shown he has little regard for his people when it comes to his power. Europe has many countries, many different leaders each with their own political situations. Leverage play…my guess at least. We’ll never know.

If normal leadership returns to Russia these will be repaired and turned back on.
This still doesn't adequately explain why blowing up these pipelines is a smart move for Putin.
Chaos in the energy markets in EU / NATO. I’m sure their people freak out over the cost per liter of fuel just like we do. Start asking questions like why are we doing this still?
But gas flowing through those pipelines is what would calm markets, and Putin was the one who had the ability to make the gas flow again. Now that's an impossibility. Just doesn't make sense to me.
Nord Stream 2 he was never opened and Vlad was told to piss off after he invaded the Ukraine as far as I have read. Nord Stream 1 was becoming less important to Europe. Again what I read.

These can both be repaired and I’d wager they’d be back up an running toot sweet if they suddenly agreed to it.
 

sho nuff

Footballguy
hmmm

he DID promise ...

Nordstream 2 was, for all intents and purposes, shut down/abandoned after the invasion due to things like sanctions. As Biden "promised".
But yes...use that to claim he sabotaged them instead.
Really weak.
 

sho nuff

Footballguy

BladeRunner

Footballguy
Completely forgot about the dirty entanglement the Biden's have in Ukraine. Yikes. I mean, if this is true then this has to be the blunder of the century. A political family with direct ties to Ukraine with the head of the family as POTUS blowing up a pipeline that they would stand to benefit from?

However, it seems like such a dumb move for them to make, though. They would be the very first ones being looked at, akin to a husband killing his wife and thinking no one would look at him.
 

Battersbox

Footballguy
By all accounts military operations are going horribly for Putin. Wasn't the carrot of turning the flow of gas back on the only bargaining chip Putin had to negotiate a cease fire that gave him any concessions at all? Why would he blow up his only leverage?
Chaos and betting that he can have his people suffer longer than multiple European countries can.

Food for thought
But he could already make the Europeans suffer. He controls the flow. I don't get it.
Nord 2 has never been opened and Nord 1 was shutdown. Germany told Russia to pound sand and has ramped up that language in past few weeks. The main powers in Europe have begun to move on. This pushes the markets into chaos putting strain on Europe.

Vlad has shown he has little regard for his people when it comes to his power. Europe has many countries, many different leaders each with their own political situations. Leverage play…my guess at least. We’ll never know.

If normal leadership returns to Russia these will be repaired and turned back on.
This still doesn't adequately explain why blowing up these pipelines is a smart move for Putin.
Chaos in the energy markets in EU / NATO. I’m sure their people freak out over the cost per liter of fuel just like we do. Start asking questions like why are we doing this still?
But gas flowing through those pipelines is what would calm markets, and Putin was the one who had the ability to make the gas flow again. Now that's an impossibility. Just doesn't make sense to me.
Nord Stream 2 he was never opened and Vlad was told to piss off after he invaded the Ukraine as far as I have read. Nord Stream 1 was becoming less important to Europe. Again what I read.

These can both be repaired and I’d wager they’d be back up an running toot sweet if they suddenly agreed to it.
My impression was Nord Stream 1 was 'becoming less important' only because it's not yet winter. Everything I've read has suggested Putin's only chance at leverage would come as temps dropped across Germany and elsewhere--that Putin's ability to resume sending natural gas was going to prove tempting to Germans and others once they had to deal with huge jumps in demand for heat. Now that possibility of Putin releasing natural gas to the markets is gone.
 

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