Who is the #20 best basketball player of all-time? (1 Viewer)

[Frostillicus]

1. Michael Jordan (71%)
2. Lebron james (85%).
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (34%).
4. Wilt Chamberlain (31%).
5. Magic Johnson (33%).
6. Larry Bird (44%).
7. Bill Russell (67%).
8. Shaquille O'Neal (31%)
9. Tim Duncan (53%).
10. Hakeem Olajuwon (36%).
11. Kobe Bryant (37%).
12. Oscar Robertson (49%).
13. Stephen Curry (74%).
14. Julius Erving (37%).
15. Moses Malone (38%).
16. Kevin Durant (38%).
17. David Robinson (41%).
18. Jerry West (37%)
19. Charles Barkley (42%).
20. ????????????

 

[Schmeabs]

Clyde

 

[the moops]

Isiah Thomas deserves very much to not be on this list

 

[Don Quixote]

I’ll go to Malone. Off-court is obviously awful, but if just going by best player on the court, I’d take him over the others here.

 

[Gawain]

I’ll go to Malone. Off-court is obviously awful, but if just going by best player on the court, I’d take him over the others here.

I'm not sure Malone is better than Pettit who hasn't even made the list yet.

 

[AAABatteries]

This is the level where it’s guys obviously a tier or two down plus guys you have to project.

 

[SWC]

this list is both confusing and hilarious take that to the bank brohans

 

[Zow]

KG for the reason stated in the other thread. I'll concede I have him objectively comparable to Malone, but KG >>>>>>>> Malone for the intangibles. Plus KG's defense was far superior to Dirk's.

Too early in their careers to say Joker or Giannis IMO.

 

[Softballguy]

KG for the reason stated in the other thread. I'll concede I have him objectively comparable to Malone, but KG >>>>>>>> Malone for the intangibles. Plus KG's defense was far superior to Dirk's.

Too early in their careers to say Joker or Giannis IMO.

Not sure it's too early to call Giannis, an NBA Champion, 2-time MVP (before age 26... only #2 and #3 players on this list have done that), 7x All Star, 5x All NBA with a DPOTY title under his belt, one of the greats. I was probably too young during Malone's days, but I certainly remember KG and Dirk. Giannis' game is superior to those two. Not far superior, but certainly superior.

 

[the moops]

If it’s not too early for Giannis (I agree) then it’s not too early for Jokic. Two time MVP (should have been three), NBA champ, 5x all NBA, 5x all-star. Those matchup with Giannis

 

[nirad3]

I'm really unsure on this one. I think I'll go Dirk.

 

[Jayrod]

I've taken everyone we've drafted so far and tried to create a formula to closely match our current rankings based on accolades and advanced stats. Three people I'm having trouble fitting into their slot are Duncan (He is up at #5 between Magic & Bird), Wilt (he's down at #8) and Oscar (he is down at #18). It makes me think we may have overrated Oscar & Wilt and underrated Duncan. Everyone else is within a couple of spots of their actual selection.

Also, this formula when applied to the guys in this poll landed in this order:
Malone
Jokic
Giannis
KG
Dirk
Stockton
Havlicek
Baylor
Thomas

The top 3 are actually pretty tightly grouped and would all be ranked a few spots above where we are now (may need to try and further tweak things to get them closer to #20). The bottom 3 are pretty far below the others and don't really belong in this tier (which I would agree with).

 

[Kev4029]

I hate Karl Malone at least as much as the next person, but I think it'll be kind of crazy if he drops out of the top 20. Some of his (positive) highlights:

• #4 All-Time in WS & VORP
• #3 Points All-Time (36,928) with a TS% of .577 (league average was .531 over his career)
• #8 Rebounds All-Time
• #13 Steals All-Time
• 14 All-NBA (11 first team which is #2 all-time behind Lebron)
• 4 All-Defense selections
• Two MVPs (#8 all time in MVP Shares - the top 11 are Malone and 10/11 of the players we have in the top 11)
• Played in the finals three times - made the playoffs ever year of his 18 year career

 

[Kev4029]

KG for the reason stated in the other thread. I'll concede I have him objectively comparable to Malone, but KG >>>>>>>> Malone for the intangibles. Plus KG's defense was far superior to Dirk's.

Too early in their careers to say Joker or Giannis IMO.

Not sure it's too early to call Giannis, an NBA Champion, 2-time MVP (before age 26... only #2 and #3 players on this list have done that), 7x All Star, 5x All NBA with a DPOTY title under his belt, one of the greats. I was probably too young during Malone's days, but I certainly remember KG and Dirk. Giannis' game is superior to those two. Not far superior, but certainly superior.

Garnett is kind of hard for me - I think he is probably the most versatile big man defender of all time, he was one of the better rebounders of his era, and he was a uniquely high usage/high assist player until Giannis and Jokic came around. At the same time, he had a hard time leading the Wolves to much success - granted that they were typically pretty middling otherwise, but throw Giannis or Jokic on those teams and I suspect they are better. When he was finally surrounded by elite talent in Boston though, he won a boatload of games. Ultimately, I think his skill set was much more of a ceiling raiser than a floor raiser which is why he was additive to a good team and helped make them great, but he made a bad team in Minnesota just mediocre.

I suspect if we re-ran Garnett's career in pretty much anywhere other than Minnesota, he would be higher on the list, but the overall resume will land him where he deserves in this exercise.

Garnett is a close call with Malone, who I think kinda had the opposite situation where he landed with the most ideal player and team possible, but I would have to give him the nod at #21, not #20.

 

[AAABatteries]

4 All-Defense selections

Malone was a great player even if he’s a POS human but I had forgotten this - I don’t recall ever thinking he was a great defender but if he got these accolades then I guess he didn’t suck at defending.

 

[Jayrod]

4 All-Defense selections

Malone was a great player even if he’s a POS human but I had forgotten this - I don’t recall ever thinking he was a great defender but if he got these accolades then I guess he didn’t suck at defending.

3 of the 4 were 1st team as well.

He was a pretty big, strong dude.

 

[Kev4029]

4 All-Defense selections

Malone was a great player even if he’s a POS human but I had forgotten this - I don’t recall ever thinking he was a great defender but if he got these accolades then I guess he didn’t suck at defending.

All Defense selections until the last 8-10 years have been very suspect, so I don't know how reliable those selections really are BUT it is some level of confirmation that he was at least decent. Young Malone was also a much better athlete than one would know watching mid-30s Malone battle the Bulls in the finals.

 

[Zow]

KG for the reason stated in the other thread. I'll concede I have him objectively comparable to Malone, but KG >>>>>>>> Malone for the intangibles. Plus KG's defense was far superior to Dirk's.

Too early in their careers to say Joker or Giannis IMO.

Not sure it's too early to call Giannis, an NBA Champion, 2-time MVP (before age 26... only #2 and #3 players on this list have done that), 7x All Star, 5x All NBA with a DPOTY title under his belt, one of the greats. I was probably too young during Malone's days, but I certainly remember KG and Dirk. Giannis' game is superior to those two. Not far superior, but certainly superior.

Garnett is kind of hard for me - I think he is probably the most versatile big man defender of all time, he was one of the better rebounders of his era, and he was a uniquely high usage/high assist player until Giannis and Jokic came around. At the same time, he had a hard time leading the Wolves to much success - granted that they were typically pretty middling otherwise, but throw Giannis or Jokic on those teams and I suspect they are better. When he was finally surrounded by elite talent in Boston though, he won a boatload of games. Ultimately, I think his skill set was much more of a ceiling raiser than a floor raiser which is why he was additive to a good team and helped make them great, but he made a bad team in Minnesota just mediocre.

I suspect if we re-ran Garnett's career in pretty much anywhere other than Minnesota, he would be higher on the list, but the overall resume will land him where he deserves in this exercise.

Garnett is a close call with Malone, who I think kinda had the opposite situation where he landed with the most ideal player and team possible, but I would have to give him the nod at #21, not #20.

Huh? The Joe Smith debacle derailed the franchise and the Marbury demand and Sealy's death didn't help matters. Oh yeah, we also correctly drafted Brandon roy then traded him for Randy ****ing Foye. In KG's 12 years there, 1995-2007, the Wolves made the playoffs every year from 1996-2004 and gave the Lakers a serious run for it in 2004. They never made the playoff before KG's arrival and the team management was embarrassing during the end of his time.

 

[Niles Standish]

I’ll go to Malone. Off-court is obviously awful, but if just going by best player on the court, I’d take him over the others here.

I'm not sure Malone is better than Pettit who hasn't even made the list yet.

Probably Mikan should be there too. A very different era of course even compared to Pettit.

 

[Niles Standish]

I hate Karl Malone at least as much as the next person, but I think it'll be kind of crazy if he drops out of the top 20. Some of his (positive) highlights:

• #4 All-Time in WS & VORP
• #3 Points All-Time (36,928) with a TS% of .577 (league average was .531 over his career)
• #8 Rebounds All-Time
• #13 Steals All-Time
• 14 All-NBA (11 first team which is #2 all-time behind Lebron)
• 4 All-Defense selections
• Two MVPs (#8 all time in MVP Shares - the top 11 are Malone and 10/11 of the players we have in the top 11)
• Played in the finals three times - made the playoffs ever year of his 18 year career

He should have made it before Robinson and Barkley on this list. He was considered better than either of them until recently. That being said I can see arguments for people outside of his era like KG since comparing between eras is art not science.

 

[Capella]

Too early in their careers to say Joker or Giannis IMO.

Why? They both have as many titles as him and both were clearly the lead dogs on that team.

KG over either of them is honestly silly to me.

 

[Frostillicus]

Bump

 

[Kev4029]

Too early in their careers to say Joker or Giannis IMO.

Why? They both have as many titles as him and both were clearly the lead dogs on that team.

KG over either of them is honestly silly to me.

The argument against Jokic and Giannis below guys like Malone/Garnett/Dirk/Barkley is a peak vs longevity argument. I think both Jokic and Giannis have reached levels that those other three never hit, but there is definitely something to be said about being an All-NBA level for 15+ rather than consensus best player in the NBA for 2-3 years which I don't think Garnett/Dirk/Malone/Barkley ever hit. After a couple more years of similar production for Jokic and Giannis I think it will be completely undeniable that they are better all-timers, but right now, I think it's fair argument to have any or all four above them.

 

[Kev4029]

Bump.

 

[Don Quixote]

58 votes is the same as the number of voters on the last one. Just seems like reaching the stage where a lot more parity.

Since Karl Malone not getting traction, I just changed my vote to Garnett, as he would be my second choice.

 

[SWC]

Too early in their careers to say Joker or Giannis IMO.

Why? They both have as many titles as him and both were clearly the lead dogs on that team.

KG over either of them is honestly silly to me.

im starting to think this is the right answer but because i dislike kg the fake toughguy so much i am probably not the guy to argue for it take that to the bank brohans

 

[AAABatteries]

The Mailman is a garbage human but no way is KG better than him.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

No Scottie Pippen or Dennis Rodman yet?